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r520 delayed??

Yeah, saw that earlier, it is kind of interesting, it can be read a number of ways, it would seem to indicate that the "r520=faster than any sli combo" whispers may have been somewhat optimistic at any rate.

Although from a pure marketing strategy point of view it would make sense, I mean even if a single r520 was comparable to a 6800ultra sli setup, no way was it ever going to be much faster, and if g70 is ready to go then nvidia had a pretty easy answer, so ATI might have held the single card crown (for awhile anyway) the overall performance crown would have remained pretty close.
AMR effectively levels the playing field again, making the battle about who's nex-gen card is faster.

I actually think it's going to end up much better for us buying stuff type people in the next round, the way it's shaping up, ATI is going to have r520+AMR/MVP and Nvidia is going to have g70+sli on the market probably at the same time, plus Nvidia is catching up to ATI by adopting 3dc and ATI is catching up to Nvidia by bringing SM3.0 onboard, so in terms of technological capabilities the cards will be more similar.

With the platforms/products so similar it's going to wind up as a straight fight at the checkouts.
 
i for one, would think that ati is at a disadvantage right now.

let me explain.

currently, and this can be debated, but i belive that nvidia is the leader.

why you say?

SLI and pixel shader 3.0

so given that nvidia is the leader and i think the majority would agree w/ that (ati !!!!!!s aside)

but anyway.. given that nvidia is the leader , the longer ati waits to release a card the more profits nvidia can make off the last generation and the more mindshare/marketshare they can gain.

so really ati needs to get out a card asap in order to compete against nvidia.

the longer ati waits the worse its going to be.

==========
now just my prediction but i think ati is going to have some horrible driver issues as far as getting SLI out. If they try to do the "you can put in different types of cards" thing , then yes.. driver nightmare for the ati team.

also if ati puts in pixel shader 3.0 , which they must, its going to increase the complexity of the chip via more transistors. more transistors = more heat = bigger die size = increased costs , granted they are moving to a lower micron process so they may not affect them much.

also i think that by nvidia going 3dc as well will be a great thing for them as it will make the cards faster due to better compression.

its going to be an interesting battle.
 
Frankly, SLI's not going main stream so I dont trust the drivers to be of any quality for many years to come.

I'd say one X850XTPE is my pick for top-of-the-line because of that.

~Adam
 
CleanSlate said:
Frankly, SLI's not going main stream so I dont trust the drivers to be of any quality for many years to come.

I'd say one X850XTPE is my pick for top-of-the-line because of that.

~Adam
Click to expand...

Drivers were the biggest problem with the original 3DFX SLI Voodoo2 rigs. Go figure that nVidia is having the same problem :eek: .

Mr.Dearthian
 
there is no way you can say nVidia is the leader when all of it's new adopted technologies are only useful in SLI mode.

If you want a single powerful card ... look no further than ATi. This is what they're working on. Yes, dual cards is a great thing when you're rendering something not when you're playing a game@1600x1200 .. My X800XT PE can handle it well. Not only that but it will probably last a long time too.

I really don't understand the enthusiasm over dual card setup or PS3.0 right now. Seriously what's the big deal ?

If a card can't handle the technology why introduce it ? I mean imagine we had to render Shrek 2 on our computers to watch it.

Retarded ? I think so !!
 
SLI is a selling point on many levels.

that being:

1. if you rule the high end then in 95% of the cases you will get sales on the lower end just b/c you rule the high end.

its a lot like a person saying i own a porsche. That really tells you nothing other than its quality . you can buy porsches in various ranges from *cheap* to very expensive.

the same applies to graphics cards. when a user sees the 6800 (or x800 whatever) is the top card then a trickle down effect occurs.

so yes.. SLI is for high end users but affects the low end.

also, i was saying that if ati takes an approach where they allow users to use various cards.. say an abit midrange card and a msi high end card then i see a potential for driver problems and its going to be nasty for the ati driver team.

abit cool if they manage to pull it off w/o problems, bugs etc etc..

btw.. i really really like the idea of mid and high end cards working together... sounds cool.

would be fun to have a 6200 and a 6800 working together. say the 6200 handels just the AI stuff or the lighting and the 6800 the rest.... or something like that.

granted it would not be the most cost effective setup.. but it would be fun.
 
I really don't understand the enthusiasm over dual card setup or PS3.0 right now. Seriously what's the big deal ?

then your not in the market nvidia is targeting.......

big deal = consumer choices

and ps3.0 = extra features.

T & L anyone..... ???

anti alising anyone???

both were scoffed at when they were first introduced but we use them all the time now.

i loved the AA on my voodoo 4 . granted it was slow but i could play half life w/ 2x AA on and it rocked.
 
Nvidia's SLI is a non-starter and completely useless to me until they sort out the driver issues with Widescreen DVI LCD's and the Dual Monitor issue..

Until then they are a paper champion..
 
Ehhh I can run HL2 and Doom 3 at 1920x1200 (Apple 23" Cinema) w/ 4xAA and 8xAF and everyone runs A-O.K. This is on an X800 XT PE of course. So what would I need SLI for? To make my E-Penis larger?
 
i read in future driver release that supposed to be taken care of... but who knows when those drivers will be released.
 
Xcellere said:
Ehhh I can run HL2 and Doom 3 at 1920x1200 (Apple 23" Cinema) w/ 4xAA and 8xAF and everyone runs A-O.K. This is on an X800 XT PE of course. So what would I need SLI for? To make my E-Penis larger?
Click to expand...

At least with nVidia you have a choice to use it or not to use it.. does ati give you this choice?
 
why does a person need a porsche and acceleration of 3.5 seconds ? or a top speed of 220mph?? when a old stationwaggon will do.

b/c you can

thats why..

plus.. it might make your or my e-penis larger.

and we all want a larger e-penis.

lol

i agree.... at least you have a choice.. its not like you HAVE to use sli..
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
At least with nVidia you have a choice to use it or not to use it.. does ati give you this choice?
Click to expand...

I think I missed what you meant, what do they give you the choice of using or not using?
 
Xcellere said:
I think I missed what you meant, what do they give you the choice of using or not using?
Click to expand...

They give you the choice of using SLI or not..does ati?

Also you have a choice in games like Splinter cell to use OpenEXR HDR and PS3.0. Does ati?

You have a CHOICE with nVidia cards and new games that use the newer tech. You also have a Choice of having the BEST setup you can buy. 2x6800U

You have a choice with nVidia. I don't see these choices with ati.
 
Xcellere said:
Ehhh I can run HL2 and Doom 3 at 1920x1200 (Apple 23" Cinema) w/ 4xAA and 8xAF and everyone runs A-O.K. This is on an X800 XT PE of course. So what would I need SLI for? To make my E-Penis larger?
Click to expand...

Performance is subjective. I doubt the frame rates you get on a setup like that, would make me happy.

I've tried that on a single X800XT-PE and I thought the performance was crap, even on HL2. 1920x1200 is too much for that card to handle. Sure it's playable, but not smooth.

That's my opinion. But as I said to a degree performance is subjective.
 
next generation battle is going to be interesting thats for sure.

nvidia has the g70 ready to roll out and will support 3dc which should make their cards even faster

and ati has r520 which might support mid and high end cards in SLI.

going to be cool to see who wins.
 
Fuck the inq to be honost. ATI never officially announced the card so how can something not announced be delayed? These guys make 1 interesting post a month, but then they milk the rest with total BS and either stating the obvious or guessing.

The G70, the R520, when i see a reference card and reviews i'll get excited, but right now i dont give a damn. I'll tell you whats real, the X800XT being fine, and my 24 inch LCD coming that looks hot.


geekcomputing said:
nvidia has the g70 ready to roll out and will support 3dc which should make their cards even faster
Click to expand...

3Dc makes nothing faster, look into it.

edit- you want to get excited about something, Xbox360 preview this thursday on MTV at 9:30pm Eastern Time and Pacific Time. Trailers included. Theres another real thing!
 
geekcomputing said:
next generation battle is going to be interesting thats for sure.

nvidia has the g70 ready to roll out and will support 3dc which should make their cards even faster

and ati has r520 which might support mid and high end cards in SLI.

going to be cool to see who wins.
Click to expand...


would be funny if it was a tie.

wonder what the !!!!!!s would say to that.
 
Right now for practical purposes SM3.0 is basically a marginal technology, simply because such a narrow selection of games can/do exploit it (I can only think of one off-hand).

*edit*By that I mean games that genuinely benefit from it, not just "support" it.

SLI (and MVP) is also arguably a marginal technology and probably always will be, because it is (and will remain) prohibitively expensive, however, SLI has a significant psychological cache, it may very well be impractical/overkill right now, but the fact is that the fastest 3d gaming set up you can have by a huge margin is 2x6800ultras in a SLI rig. ATI has no answer to that.

This creates a relatively simple and indesputable Nvidia=Fastest equation.

End of story.

ATI has to have an equivalent technology just to keep it's head above water.

Yes a single R520 may take the top performance crown, for the 15mins before SLI'd G70 benchmarks start showing up at which point they'll be pretty much even (assuming MVP works out).

I'm very interested to see how the spin campaign works out, they've both got SLI, SM3.0 and 3dc and I'm not aware of any other wonderously futuretastic technologies in play worth mentioning, and I find it hard to believe that there will be much real world difference between performance of the top cards (just like last time).

Hopefully this all ends up in a big pricewar that'd be cool.
 
Trusting the Inq for stuff like this is a bit better than trusting a fortuneteller at the county fair.

Both could be right, but what are the chances?

The Inq prints a number of stories at a point so early most other sites won't pick them up...because there isn't enough information to verify the truth. I take everything I read on the Inq with a grain of salt until someone I trust more puts it in print.
 
geekcomputing said:
"3Dc makes nothing faster, look into it."""

here... straight from ati.
and yes.. maybe not mhz wise but it does makes things faster in an indirect way i believe.
prehaps i am wrong but i doubt it.

"3Dc™
3Dc is an exciting new compression technology designed to bring out fine details in games while minimizing memory usage. It is the first compression technique optimized to work with normal maps, which allow fine per-pixel control over how light reflects from a textured surface. With up to 4:1 compression possible, this means game designers can now include up to 4x the detail without changing the amount of graphics memory required and without impacting performance."

ok.. sooo...

if you can compress a texture, you send less data... if you can send less data you can use gpu cycles for other functions. if you can use gpu cycles for other functions you get the benefits of additional work load done faster. if work can be done faster then it stands to reason that in fact 3dc speeds up a graphics card.

it also stands to reason. Why would nvidia use a technology that would NOT make their cards faster esp since its tech from a competitor?

answer = 3dc makes cards faster by compressing textures.

shazam shazam!

ps. it could also help AA and AF as those take up additional Ram space and 3dc reduces ram usage by saving space.

pss . "ATI never officially announced the card so how can something not announced be delayed? "

easy. Brass says have the chip ready by june. engineers say ok.. np.
engineers realize that chip will not make internal time frame for release.
thus a delay.
Click to expand...
 
geekcomputing said:
3Dc makes nothing faster, look into it.

here... straight from ati.

"3Dc™
3Dc is an exciting new compression technology designed to bring out fine details in games while minimizing memory usage. It is the first compression technique optimized to work with normal maps, which allow fine per-pixel control over how light reflects from a textured surface. With up to 4:1 compression possible, this means game designers can now include up to 4x the detail without changing the amount of graphics memory required and without impacting performance."

ok.. sooo...

if you can compress a texture, you send less data... if you can send less data you can use gpu cycles for other functions. if you can use gpu cycles for other functions you get the benefits of additional work load done faster. if work can be done faster then it stands to reason that in fact 3dc speeds up a graphics card.

it also stands to reason. Why would nvidia use a technology that would NOT make their cards faster esp since its tech from a competitor?

answer = 3dc makes cards faster by compressing textures.

shazam!
Click to expand...

nope, it makes nothing faster. The good thing is you benefit from the added visuals but you see no performance loss, that is a good thing you know? You dont gain anything speed wise but you get more eye candy and you dont lose anything from it at all. What you just posted is not what i was refering too, keep looking. By the way its a ram compression technology, the VPU is still going to do the same work with or without it, point is with it, the vpu does the same amount of work for a nicer picture. Get it yet?
 
Well, I would not be surprised if this delay proves to be true. I for one would rather them not release squat for another year, and then as of launch date 1 year from now you could actually go to a store of find the cards actually in stock and on sale for the MSRP price or less.

I don't care if they have delays or not, the paper launch crap annoys me.
 
I knew right from the very begining this would happen. But would anyone listen to me? Noooo, of course not. I have always said that we knew nothing about the r520, short of a "benchmark" by a no-name someone on a no-name forum who can't tell anything about the card other than that he got 40k in 3Dmark01se at stock speeds. Suuuuuuure he did :rolleyes:. The r520 is a long ways off boys and girls, so quit wetting yourselves over it.
 
Interesting note. This thread is about ATI's next card getting delayed. Less than halfway down the first page it turns into people downplaying nVidia's card all over again. Just... wow :rolleyes:
 
Sly said:
Interesting note. This thread is about ATI's next card getting delayed. Less than halfway down the first page it turns into people downplaying nVidia's card all over again. Just... wow :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Any thread that uses theinq as the primary source of info is doomed. :p

Fuad bats around 0.050.
 
hummm

maybe i am wrong on 3dc but i would think it would speed your card up even its its .000000001% due to small textures going to ram , as opposed to full size textures.

reguardless its a good thing that nvidia is adopting it as i see it benefiting them due to better compression.

but yea.. ill have to keep looking. LOL.
im on the clock.

fanatic... feel free to pm me some links if you get time.

thanks in advance.
Geek.
 
geekcomputing said:
hummm

i think i should have been more specific when i made the statement it speeds up your card.

i think you would stand to gain some speed... maybe .0001% or some very small number.

so i should have stated "it will allow your card to compress textures in a more efficient manner and possibly lead to some VERY small spead increase."

it would be interesting to see a comparison review of 3dc and w/o 3dc.
i wonder if the results would even be measurable.
Click to expand...
 
Wait a minute:

All of us SLI owners are supposed to feeling terrible in June because we wasted money on SLI instead of waiting till June!

:rolleyes:

I never expected this card before this Fall, doesn't surprise me. I've posted that there will be no R520s in June about a 1000X.
 
geekcomputing said:
hummm

maybe i am wrong on 3dc but i would think it would speed your card up even its its .000000001% due to small textures going to ram , as opposed to full size textures.

reguardless its a good thing that nvidia is adopting it as i see it benefiting them due to better compression.

but yea.. ill have to keep looking. LOL.
im on the clock.

fanatic... feel free to pm me some links if you get time.

thanks in advance.
Geek.
Click to expand...

shouldnt be a need. 3Dc doesnt send smaller amounts of data to the memory which is where i think you assume it should be faster. It sends the same amount compressed in a 4:1 ratio so its essentially sending up to 4 times the amount in a single pass. Same amount, greater ouput.

Say a normal memory texture store is X=100, so the GPU takes the image, puts what is needed in the cards memory, does alot of technical stuff, produces image.
With 3Dc it acts as if its doing a normal compression but its got up to 4 times the amount of data so X=400 instead, stores the texture, does alot of technical stuff, produces a much more detailed image in the same amount of time and work.

You dont lose a thing at all in terms of performance, but what you gain is a much more detailed image. Best part is it can be employed on both OpenGL and Direct X.

If you really want the technical run down that is quite confusing, ATI has a PDF here:
http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx800/3DcWhitePaper.pdf

Its problably also worth mentioning that if it gets support on more then 2 games like it has now, it most likely will see limited use, only being used on skin and clothes rather then massively used on walls ground and other areas of large environment.
 
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