Question about a Mac

Julius

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I am considering getting a Mac, this will be my first owned Mac. Although I have used them before. Curious to know, what type of daily or average problems do you run into with a Mac?
 

MJZ

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If you had daily problems, it wouldn't be a Mac (and no one would buy them).

Average problems? Depends on what you call a problem. Macs have a different mouse acceleration algorithm, which makes it impossible to get used to for some people (I've used one for over 2 years and it never is accurate as a PC).
 

brom42

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I am considering getting a Mac, this will be my first owned Mac. Although I have used them before. Curious to know, what type of daily or average problems do you run into with a Mac?

You'll run into plenty of problems until you get used to OS X. You'll want to do things the way they happen in Windows. However once you are fluent at OS X, you won't really run into any problems.

At the end of the day the Mac will be no different than using Windows or whatever. They all have occasional problem here and there. You shouldn't have any daily problems regardless of the OS or hardware you are using...
 

Julius

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If you had daily problems, it wouldn't be a Mac (and no one would buy them).

Average problems? Depends on what you call a problem. Macs have a different mouse acceleration algorithm, which makes it impossible to get used to for some people (I've used one for over 2 years and it never is accurate as a PC).


You're right, that makes perfect sense.

Also I have noticed that about the mouse, of course I'm assumign there are certain mouses that you could buy to help eliminiate the difference?
 

MJZ

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You're right, that makes perfect sense.

Also I have noticed that about the mouse, of course I'm assumign there are certain mouses that you could buy to help eliminiate the difference?

Not really. Wired mouses helps, but the movement sensation is still different. Laggy is the best description I can imagine. It simply does not respond like you will want it to.... hmm like driving a BMW M3 (PC) vs the steering feel of a Toyota Corolla (Mac). If you have driven performance cars, then you'll know the difference in handling and steering.
 

brom42

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You're right, that makes perfect sense.

Also I have noticed that about the mouse, of course I'm assumign there are certain mouses that you could buy to help eliminiate the difference?

There is some software that alters the acceleration and really reduces it. I've also noticed the acceleration is a lot less aggressive in the newest versions of OS X. Are you getting a desktop or laptop? Apple is my mobile platform, using the touchpad there really isn't and difference between a PC laptop and a Mac for acceleration.
 

Julius

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^ I was thinking of going with the 4GB Mac Mini and running both Windows XP and OSX
 

MattyC

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Not really. Wired mouses helps, but the movement sensation is still different. Laggy is the best description I can imagine. It simply does not respond like you will want it to.... hmm like driving a BMW M3 (PC) vs the steering feel of a Toyota Corolla (Mac). If you have driven performance cars, then you'll know the difference in handling and steering.

Can't say I have any idea what you are talking about. I use MX 510s on both of my macs (sig and a dual processor G4 powermac) and I can't say I have ever noticed mouse lag with them... I also have a Magic Mouse that I have used some, didn't notice any lag on it for a BT mouse. Maybe it is the mice you are using?
 

t5brick

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When I first bought a Mac, it was a used 1GHz 12" PowerBook G4. I had also built a nice dual core SLI gaming desktop at about the same time. After a month or two, I realized that 95% of my computer use was on the PowerBook, so I sold it and my desktop and bought a MacBook Pro. I haven't thought about switching back since then. In fact, I just upgraded to a new 13" MacBook Pro. I'm loving the touchpad gestures.

The OS will take a little bit of time to get used to, but in the end it isn't a problem.
 

Absentee

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Can't say I have any idea what you are talking about. I use MX 510s on both of my macs (sig and a dual processor G4 powermac) and I can't say I have ever noticed mouse lag with them... I also have a Magic Mouse that I have used some, didn't notice any lag on it for a BT mouse. Maybe it is the mice you are using?

Yea, I'm not sure what he's talking about either.

Moving between my MBP and my dads toshiba laptop, I don't notice a significant difference. I like the feel of my MBP trackpad better though.

MJZ check your mouse settings.
 

ryken

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I don't notice the difference in the trackpad, but when I use my magic mouse, vx nano, or wired logitech scroll wheel mice, it feels "different" than the pc. To me it feels like the mouse doesn't accelerate at the same rate as it does on windows. It isn't that it lags, it's more like it always ends up being a little short of where I expected it to be. It's an odd feeling, but after about 5 minutes I get used to how it feels and don't notice it.

It's a common sentiment among pc users who go mac, and for what's it worth, I think most people get over it rather quickly.
 

Stush

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Only two things come to mind in terms of regular issues compared to Windows. The first is that Flash performance is not as good as it is on Windows and Flash crashes with some regularity. Second is that animated GIFs are slow to load, and sometimes don't begin animating even after they have apparently finished downloading.

These are obviously not major problems by any means, but since I use my Mac as my primary day to day platform now they stand out.
 

MJZ

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Yea, I'm not sure what he's talking about either.

Moving between my MBP and my dads toshiba laptop, I don't notice a significant difference. I like the feel of my MBP trackpad better though.

MJZ check your mouse settings.

See responses above. Mac OS X uses a different acceleration algorithm. I have Boot camps on the same Macbook running XP and it will behave completely differently. Along with a million different mice ranging from wired to VX, MX wirelesses etc... all the same behavior.

If you tried to play an FPS on a Mac you would immediately know. But of course, I can't actually think of an FPS that runs on OSX.
 

MJZ

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I don't notice the difference in the trackpad, but when I use my magic mouse, vx nano, or wired logitech scroll wheel mice, it feels "different" than the pc. To me it feels like the mouse doesn't accelerate at the same rate as it does on windows. It isn't that it lags, it's more like it always ends up being a little short of where I expected it to be. It's an odd feeling, but after about 5 minutes I get used to how it feels and don't notice it.

It's a common sentiment among pc users who go mac, and for what's it worth, I think most people get over it rather quickly.

Well... I owned a Macbook for 2 years and never failed to notice it. Of course, I use a PC at the same time, and use XP at work all day so the difference is ever-present and perceptible.
 

UnknownSouljer

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If you tried to play an FPS on a Mac you would immediately know. But of course, I can't actually think of an FPS that runs on OSX.

Quake 2, Quake 3, Quake 4
Doom 3
Call of Duty 4

If you use Crossover then that introduces essentially every game on Steam. (Half-Life 2 engine etc)

I moved from a PC, to a MBP, and now a 27" i7 iMac and haven't experienced any problems. I use Windows 2k (yeah still) and XP at work.
 
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He is using the acceleration feature of the mouse, where it speeds up the more you move it across the screen. That is very different on a Mac than a PC (Its not a feature I use often, but I have compared it.)

If your not someone who uses the acceleration, then you wont notice a difference in the mouse movement.
 

UnknownSouljer

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He is using the acceleration feature of the mouse, where it speeds up the more you move it across the screen. That is very different on a Mac than a PC (Its not a feature I use often, but I have compared it.)

If your not someone who uses the acceleration, then you wont notice a difference in the mouse movement.

No, I realize what he's talking about. I notice a difference, and I adjusted the amount of acceleration accordingly. The change I would say is minor, and I have no trouble switching back and forth. Not better or worse, just different.

For reference I use a Magic Mouse for general purposes, browsing, and content creation, and I use an MX Revolution for gaming.
 

MattyC

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Oh you mean the default mouse speed settings? Yeah those are a bit off, but once you change them I have never found any "lag". I think the really bad car analogy threw me :p
 

bladeiai

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I am considering getting a Mac, this will be my first owned Mac. Although I have used them before. Curious to know, what type of daily or average problems do you run into with a Mac?

I use photoshop CS4 on a daily basis and it has crashed twice in the last 2 months of using it. Which is once more than it has in probably 6 months of using it on windows 7. But I use it a lot more on my mbp than I did on my desktop so that may have something to do with it.
Not a huge thing I guess but still pisses me right the hell off when it does happen.


*edit- And iMovie just crashed on me.
 
Last edited:

Julius

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I use photoshop CS4 on a daily basis and it has crashed twice in the last 2 months of using it. Which is once more than it has in probably 6 months of using it on windows 7. But I use it a lot more on my mbp than I did on my desktop so that may have something to do with it.
Not a huge thing I guess but still pisses me right the hell off when it does happen.


*edit- And iMovie just crashed on me.

oh that sucks lol.

What's the lifespan of a Mac compared to a PC, almost every PC ive had either had power supply or hard drive issues. I'm sure it will probably be the same on a Mac but I am just curious.
 

Terpfen

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What's the lifespan of a Mac compared to a PC, almost every PC ive had either had power supply or hard drive issues. I'm sure it will probably be the same on a Mac but I am just curious.

Macs generally have a longer useful life and hold their value better than PCs. There are plenty of G4 Macs still in service.

That said, there are occasional component failures, like hard drives. Nothing is guaranteed. Get Applecare.
 

MattyC

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What's the lifespan of a Mac compared to a PC

Eh this is from a tiny sample size, but in my experience Macs hold up just as well as PCs, if not a tiny bit better.

Had a Power Mac single processor 733 G4 from 2001, was still running with all the original parts, even the HD, in late 2008 when i got rid of it.


Still have a dual 1 GHz G4 PowerMac from 2002 that is running fine. All original stuff except the HDs. They didn't fail, just upgraded to larger.


MacBook Pro from late 2007 (see sig), still running with most everything original. Had the video chipset die on me (known nvidia issue, not Mac specific) was replaced for free. Upgraded to 4gb of ram from 2. Otherwise still original everything (HD, battery etc).
 

Dan_D

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In my experience, Macs are no more reliable than top quality PC's. I think the rep the Macs enjoy isn't put in the proper context. Yes a Mac is generally better than a $400 Dell and most of the crappy computers the average person buys from Best Buy or Comp USA. However PC's in the same price ranges as the Macs (iMac and Mac Mini not withstanding) are generally just as reliable if not more so than their Mac counterparts. I've seen Macs lock up, crash, randomly reboot and lose data just as often as PCs and in some cases more so. Worse yet the Mac isn't nearly as compatible with Windows volumes as Apple would like you to believe. This only leads to more problems.
 

Darakian

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My biggest issue is that if the drive gets fragmented then you will be unable to resize (or create) partitions and apple provides no defrag utility. A reformat is a work around, but an irritating one. You'll no doubt come across a million tiny things that irk you, I have. All that said, I still love my macbook. It is bar none the best laptop I have ever used.
 

Dan_D

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I like some Mac hardware, though I think Apple charges too much for it. When you really break them down to component level there is nothing special about them and they are no better quality than a decent PC is. If it weren't for the "Apple Tax" I'd be more willing to purchase some of their products. I'd install Windows on them instead of Mac OS, but I'd be more likely to buy them just the same.
 

MattyC

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I like some Mac hardware, though I think Apple charges too much for it. When you really break them down to component level there is nothing special about them


Eh that isn't totally true. Aesthetic value exists and I think you have to admit that Apple generally does an excellent job there. Otherwise you certainly wouldn't buy one and put Windows on it like you just said :p


Not everything they do works out great like that, but I think the aluminum MacBooks and MB Pros, for example, are the best looking laptops out right now. That is an entirely subjective and personal rating, but that doesn't make it invalid. People buy what they like.
 

Terpfen

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My biggest issue is that if the drive gets fragmented then you will be unable to resize (or create) partitions and apple provides no defrag utility.

No defrag utility is included because it's unnecessary. OS X takes better care of files than Windows does, and OS X automatically runs daily/weekly/monthly maintenance scripts in the background to take care of whatever isn't handled by default.

You're complaining about a phenomenon that doesn't exist on the platform in question. (And by the way, Disk Utility will let you resize partitions at will.)
 

Dan_D

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Eh that isn't totally true. Aesthetic value exists and I think you have to admit that Apple generally does an excellent job there. Otherwise you certainly wouldn't buy one and put Windows on it like you just said :p


Not everything they do works out great like that, but I think the aluminum MacBooks and MB Pros, for example, are the best looking laptops out right now. That is an entirely subjective and personal rating, but that doesn't make it invalid. People buy what they like.

No, I think it is true. I'd only really consider the laptops if they were priced more competitively. They do look good but I'd probably never actually buy one as the "Apple Tax" is just too steep. The Mac Pro is price competitive with similar machines from other vendors but I'd never buy one for myself. I'd rather build my own workstations. For commercial use or as a recommendation to clients I'd certainly recommend Dell or HP over Apple. Apple's warranty/customer support blows goats. Upgrade capabilities suck on many if not most models given the chassis design. Apple is also willing to compromise function in order to obtain form. Sometimes their decisions leave much to be desired. Some of their earlier LCDs for example had those stupid easel bases which often broke and didn't provide anything but tilt capability. Rotation was impossible with the design. Older G4 towers were difficult to remove drives from. Yet they seemed to feel that motherboard replacements needed to be nice and easy or something as if those happened more often. Their G5 towers and subsequent Intel Macs that look like those initial G5 chassis are terrible in terms of functionality and servicibility. I can go on and on about Apples complete FAIL when it comes to being functional.

Anyway I'm getting side tracked. Yes I'd find some of Apple's products more compelling if their prices were better. Yet many of those products aren't really all that compelling when you get "under the hood." Aesthetic value is only a value when all other factors are equal and they damn sure aren't equal.
 

Julius

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Any places where I could fine refurb Mini Mac, Macbooks and etc besides macmall?
 

Terpfen

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Any places where I could fine refurb Mini Mac, Macbooks and etc besides macmall?

Apple.

No, I think it is true. I'd only really consider the laptops if they were priced more competitively. They do look good but I'd probably never actually buy one as the "Apple Tax" is just too steep.

Not this again. Do you also complain about a "Mercedes-Benz tax," a "Hilton Hotel tax," or a "10,000 square foot home tax"?

Apple offers products in a specific segment of the market. It is not a tax, it is a specific decision based on the quality of build that goes into the product. Claiming that the specs don't warrant the price difference is sort of like saying a BMW with a V6 isn't worth the price because you can get a Toyota with a V6 instead. It sort of misses the point.
 

MattyC

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Well I wasn't debating your opinion on price Dan. I never bother to debate that with people anyway as it is a stupid argument. Obviously enough people think Apple products are a good spend of money or they wouldn't still be around. Beyond that it is pointless, different people value different things in different ways. I was just saying they do offer something else. They offer the "legit" or whatever you want to call it, portal to OS X and they generally look better than the competition. Now, this isn't always true. I thought the G3 imacs were hideous and the G4 imacs were only slightly better looking imo. Either way I think they offer something, that is just my opinion though. If you don't that is also a valid opinion, but just don't mistake that opinion for a universal fact ;)


As for the G4 Power Macs being hard to work on, I am not sure why you think that. I have had two and thought they were good for when they were released. I mean sure, if you want to put them against a more modern no-tools PC case, they suck. However I can tell you they were as good or better than the Dells and the like I had to muck with back then.


As far as the Apple tax, it is only bad if you buy long after a refresh. If you watch right after Apple refreshes their hardware they are actually very competitive with PC manufactures. The thing is Apple will almost never lower that price. They just keep it there until they bring out something new. If you buy too long after something came out... you get screwed. I will also agree that Apple support sucks. Their in house support really is garbage. I have come across some great Apple authorized shops though.
 

Dan_D

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Apple.



Not this again. Do you also complain about a "Mercedes-Benz tax," a "Hilton Hotel tax," or a "10,000 square foot home tax"?

Apple offers products in a specific segment of the market. It is not a tax, it is a specific decision based on the quality of build that goes into the product. Claiming that the specs don't warrant the price difference is sort of like saying a BMW with a V6 isn't worth the price because you can get a Toyota with a V6 instead. It sort of misses the point.

"Apple Tax" is just a nice way to say that Apple charges too much for what is arguably a "pretty PC" with an Apple logo on it. The truth is they are just expensive for what they are. It would be one thing if Apple machines were actually made better than comparable PCs. The truth is they aren't. I've done hardware work on just about every brand of computer out there. Their electronics are made by the same manufactures that make everything else. I've seen plenty of Macs with shitty capacitors leaking all over the place well after most PC manufacturers stopped having those issues. I've seen a ton of burnt voltage regulators and other problems. Yes the Apple Chassis is well made. I can't argue with that. I just don't think they are worth the price for something that isn't always that functional and is just pretty.
 

Terpfen

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"Apple Tax" is just a nice way to say that Apple charges too much for what is arguably a "pretty PC" with an Apple logo on it.

Which is not what they do. I'm amazed that in 2010 there are still people who grade computers based solely on CPU speed and RAM total, instead of what the computer is actually going to be used for.

Find me an HP that can legally tri-boot all three major OSes. Find me a Dell that includes genuinely usable default software, rather than a mix of crapware and barely-functional "feature" apps, like a CD burning suite. Find me a Sony with function that follows form. (Irony: Sony rips off Apple's styling left and right, but leaves out the usability, like the multitouch trackpad. Then again, part of that is Microsoft's fault.) Find me an Acer with a non-CULV Core 2 Duo and a relatively high-end GPU that gets 8 hours of battery life on average.

I can go on, but your basic premise that there's very little if any difference between Apple's hardware and the big box PC companies' hardware beyond aesthetics falls apart under even casual scrutiny. And we haven't even gotten around to how the hardware is being used: without writing an essay on the topic, OS X is superior to Windows, and using OS X on Apple hardware is generally a better experience than using Windows on big box PC hardware.

Yes the Apple Chassis is well made. I can't argue with that. I just don't think they are worth the price for something that isn't always that functional and is just pretty.

So you won't be buying that Mercedes any time soon. Gotcha.
 
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