Question about a future build or a Mac Mini

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jbltecnicspro

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Alright, so here's the deal. I'm about to pull the trigger on a computer. My budget is $800, and I'm caught in between purchasing a Mac Mini or building a PC. The Mac Mini is a refurbished one on Apple's Mac Store - and it's $699. The PC configuration would cost me $729 (home built). When it comes to performance and such, the PC would win hands down on everything. BUT - and here's the big but... I'm a student programmer who wants to develop software, and I own an iPhone 3GS (and its iPod Touch counterpart).

I would like to try my hand at developing for iOS. And obviously, Windows PC's just cannot do it (at least not natively). There are a couple of things that scare me a little about the Mac Mini's performance. So I'm hoping that some of you Mac guys can help quiet my anxieties.

1. Dual-Core i5. I know that these are pretty darn quick, and coming from an ancient Pentium 4, they should scream. However, how long can I expect this CPU to last?

2. Only 4GB of RAM (on the refurb). Is upgrading the RAM as easy as Apple says it is?

3. Radeon HD6630m. How powerful is this card? The only games I have left are Doom 3, Far Cry (the first one, lol), FEAR, and other games circa 2006. Halo PC is a perrenial favorite, and it's still played a lot by online gamers. I would LOVE to play Skyrim on it, but I don't think it has the power nor the memory. Thankfully, 256MB videocards were plenty back in the day.

4. 5400rpm Hard Drive... Seriously? I think that the 750GB hard drive with a 7200rpm speed as an upgrade is a slap in the face. Why in the world wouldn't Apple give us a 7200rpm as a stock unit? My question is this - how much of a dog is this hard drive? I plan on using a Windows partition on it, so that I can do my C++ assignments.

Other than that, it doesn't look like that bad of a machine. My major gripe about the computer is that I'm going to eventually have to buy more stuff for it. Buy a faster hard drive, buy more RAM, buy another keyboard (yeah, yeah - I'm still using a PS/2 keyboard, lol), and buy a stupid VGA adapter. When it's all said and done, I'd have a computer that costs closer to $1000... Just for iOS programming?

Just for reference, the PC I'm thinking of building has:

Intel Quad-core i5, 8GB of RAM, Radeon HD7750, 64GB SSD (I have a 320 GB external which would store all of my music and other files), Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS, Windows Embedded Standard 7 (Windows 7 in a component form), and all said and done would cost $730.

So... Any help and dialogue would be awesome. Thanks for reading through my marathon post. :)
 
Upgrading ram in the new mini is pretty simple.. on the old mini you had to pry off the case (the outer shell was a single piece that slid over the components and locked into place.. on the new one you just open a little port on the bottom and the modules are right there -

Here's how you replace the ram on a 2011 mac mini -

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing-Mac-Mini-Mid-2011-RAM/6438/1

8GB of ddr3 notebook ram is pretty damn cheap, too.. I think I paid $80 to upgrade my MacBook pro to 8GB, but you can get 8GB of DDR3 notebook ram for about $42 now..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148493


a 6630m is decent as long as you don't expect to play any modern games.. I wouldn't expect to play skyrim well w/ 256MB of video ram, but it should play.. I've seen people play skyrim decently on Intel integrated gpus..

I don't think 5400 rpm vs 7200rpm is a big deal when it comes to hard drives.. some 5400 rpms are actually faster than 7200 rpms.. most notebook hard drives are still 5400 rpm as far as I know.

For programming, etc. I don't expect a dual core i5 to give you any problems.. unless you're doing a lot of multithreaded activities like video encoding, it should serve you well for a number of years.

One possibility that is worth considering is that Intel is about due to drop their ivy bridge cpus for desktops and mobiles.. it wouldn't surprise me if apple hardware updates were just around the corner.

Once the new generation comes out, the current generation of macs on the refurb store will get cheaper than they are now..

If you care about being able to upgrade components of your machine, the PC is going to be a clear winner.. but in terms of a nice compact machine that will work well and shouldn't give you many problems, the mac mini is a good one.

It comes with a HDMI to DVI adapter already.. you should be able to find a DVI to VGA adapter cheap on a place like monoprice.com

You don't have to buy one from apple.
 
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This is just my opinion, but I don't think Apple products really start to be worth it until you top the $1k mark, and they're "more worth it" as laptops than desktops to me. That said, I run a base model 13" macbook air and use it for both my C++ classes (it's got g++, you don't need windows) and to do some basic mac/IOS development. That's on a 1.6ghz dual-core "i7" with only 4gb of ram. I've had a bit of worry about how hot it gets - up to 90C according to one temp monitor - but it's snappy enough and I haven't run out of memory yet. The 5400rpm drive I think really would hurt, though. The air runs an ssd, and it's snappy, but I can't imagine how much it would crawl without that.
 
You're at a bit of a crossroads on this one. If you really want to do iOS development, though, you don't really have much of a choice.

Not that I'm trying to dissuade you from getting a Mac and doing iOS development, but an alternative option for you would be to upgrade your 3GS to a WP7 phone and do development for that platform. That could end up being a 'free' phone upgrade for you, and you'd be able to do WP7 development on your PC. From what I understand, the prospects for WP7 developers are fairly good right now. You could do Android development as well, but I don't think there are as many opportunities in that market, and Android development is an incredible pain in the ass compared to iOS/WP7 development.

Just a thought.
 
My MacMini 2011 with the 5400 rpm Hdd does not crawl at all for what I do. Simple games, word programs, Internet, email, YouTube and the like. I went back and forth about getting a Mac Mini with the 7200 and glad I selected the 5400 after reading other members with same and they reported that I would not see a difference between the two.

Memory is so easily swapped out as well. Takes just a few short minutes. Only wish the Hdd would be that simple. ;)
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Alright, so here's the deal. I'm about to pull the trigger on a computer. My budget is $800, and I'm caught in between purchasing a Mac Mini or building a PC. The Mac Mini is a refurbished one on Apple's Mac Store - and it's $699. The PC configuration would cost me $729 (home built). When it comes to performance and such, the PC would win hands down on everything. BUT - and here's the big but... I'm a student programmer who wants to develop software, and I own an iPhone 3GS (and its iPod Touch counterpart).

I would like to try my hand at developing for iOS. And obviously, Windows PC's just cannot do it (at least not natively). There are a couple of things that scare me a little about the Mac Mini's performance. So I'm hoping that some of you Mac guys can help quiet my anxieties.

1. Dual-Core i5. I know that these are pretty darn quick, and coming from an ancient Pentium 4, they should scream. However, how long can I expect this CPU to last?
Click to expand...

Should be plenty really. I would guess at a life of ~4-5 years (+/- 2-3 years, everyone's different). But If you really get into it, you'll probably want to upgrade. If you're still running a P4, you'll probably be on the long end of that life, but who can tell.

As a thought, if you can hold off, as a student you get a student discount. It's not a bunch off of a Mac-Mini, but would allow you to pickup one of the Ivy Bridge MacMini's as soon as they come out. We don't know when that will be though. Ivy Bridge is due April 29th, but Apple only refreshes computers once a year. That said, I kind of expect an update will happen relatively "soon". Just an idea. Ivy bridge should be decently quicker, but who's to say at this point.

jbltecnicspro said:
2. Only 4GB of RAM (on the refurb). Is upgrading the RAM as easy as Apple says it is?
Click to expand...
Yup, not really needed though unless you get really into development. OSX is extremely memory efficient. Hard drive, not so much IIRC.


jbltecnicspro said:
3. Radeon HD6630m. How powerful is this card? The only games I have left are Doom 3, Far Cry (the first one, lol), FEAR, and other games circa 2006. Halo PC is a perrenial favorite, and it's still played a lot by online gamers. I would LOVE to play Skyrim on it, but I don't think it has the power nor the memory. Thankfully, 256MB videocards were plenty back in the day.
Click to expand...

It's a pretty "meh" card. You have to remember the footprint it's installed in. I would think it will be ok for those games, but I can't say for sure.

jbltecnicspro said:
4. 5400rpm Hard Drive... Seriously? I think that the 750GB hard drive with a 7200rpm speed as an upgrade is a slap in the face. Why in the world wouldn't Apple give us a 7200rpm as a stock unit? My question is this - how much of a dog is this hard drive? I plan on using a Windows partition on it, so that I can do my C++ assignments.
Click to expand...

I do not know why they wouldn't just install a 7200RPM drive honestly, /shrug. The 5400RPM is fine, but I'm personally of the opinion that the real, actual, observable difference in daily tasks is unnoticeable between a 5400 and 7200 RPM, so I wouldn't worry about that (<3 the SSD though). (If you really think about it, it's slow, and slow, who's going to notice a few ms of seek difference, or a slightly slower transfer rate, when the transfers are still slow, it's a side effect of a moving part system).

jbltecnicspro said:
Other than that, it doesn't look like that bad of a machine. My major gripe about the computer is that I'm going to eventually have to buy more stuff for it. Buy a faster hard drive, buy more RAM, buy another keyboard (yeah, yeah - I'm still using a PS/2 keyboard, lol), and buy a stupid VGA adapter. When it's all said and done, I'd have a computer that costs closer to $1000... Just for iOS programming?
Click to expand...

This one is your call completely I'm afraid. A Mac is the only platform that can natively run OSX. It can also natively run Windows, and Linux, giving you the most development flexibility.
 
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Thanks for all of your replies people, it's really helpful. That said... Would it be a possibly better option to save a few more bucks and just plop down the money for a refurbished MacBook Air with an i5? I see one on the Apple store for $1079. Granted... it IS a bit more than I want to spend though.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Thanks for all of your replies people, it's really helpful. That said... Would it be a possibly better option to save a few more bucks and just plop down the money for a refurbished MacBook Air with an i5? I see one on the Apple store for $1079. Granted... it IS a bit more than I want to spend though.
Click to expand...

/Shrug, it's an option.

You gain mobility, you loose the money and the ability to game. None of the MBA's or 13" MBP's have a dedicated graphics card.

But man'o'man I love the mobility.

You do have a few options in that direction though. I kinda see three options, all of which are 2011's, so Sandy Bridge processors.


13 mbp for $1019. This gets you a faster processor (it's not ULV), and a DVD drive, which is kinda handy unless you have a external. MBP's are easily upgraded for RAM or Hard drive.
http://store.apple.com/us-hed/product/FD313LL/A

at the same time, either a
13" mba for $1099 1.7ghz, 4gb RAM and 128 SSD
http://store.apple.com/us-hed/product/FC965LL/A

or an 11" mba 999 1.6ghz, 4gb RAM, and 128 SSD
http://store.apple.com/us-hed/product/FC969LL/A

Both get you 4gb of ram, and 128gb SSD's, which will really help the speed. But MBA's are not upgradeable (soldered ram, non-standard form factor SSD's)
 
I think I'm going to stick with building the PC instead. Since most of the products are EOL (someone posted that in another forum), I think I'll just wait for the new ones and get a refurb then. Thanks for all the help though - I had no idea that the MacBook Air is COMPLETELY unable to upgrade. That's a shame.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
I think I'm going to stick with building the PC instead. Since most of the products are EOL (someone posted that in another forum), I think I'll just wait for the new ones and get a refurb then. Thanks for all the help though - I had no idea that the MacBook Air is COMPLETELY unable to upgrade. That's a shame.
Click to expand...

/shrug, it's a function of the form factor I'm afraid. A MBA is 1.7 cm thick at it's thickest. If you look at a DIMM socket on a mother/logic board, image trying to cram one of those into a shell that tapers from 1.7 cm to 0.3cm. If you think of what else is actually crammed in there with it, you'll realize there just isn't room.

It sucks, but it's a function of the form factor.

That said, the current MacBook Air/Pro's aren't really EOL, rather the Ivy Bridge MBA/MBP's are expected soon. It's Apple's refresh cycle, they average about once a year for a real refresh, and that's expected in the next few months.

But usually a refurb of the new machines are hard to come by right after refresh, for obvious reasons. But again, as a student you could get a student discount on a new, and that's almost as good a price.
 
Is OSX virtualization an option? VMware on PC? That's legal right? A buddy of mine just did it with Snow Leopard and said it worked fine. Best of both worlds?
 
Don't be too afraid of the 5400rpm drives. I had thought the same thing when I purchased my MacBook. I was mildly surprised at how well it ran, though.

Of course I still upgraded to an SSD, but the 5400rpm wasn't painful to use :p
 
Morazl said:
Is OSX virtualization an option? VMware on PC? That's legal right? A buddy of mine just did it with Snow Leopard and said it worked fine. Best of both worlds?
Click to expand...

It's ok but sluggish and in violation of the EULA. There's also no Quartz or CoreImage support if you are running in VMWare which makes a lot of the media-focused apps unusable and bogs down the interface. Best of both worlds is certainly the reverse (running Windows in a VM on a Mac) since it works perfectly and is completely legal.
 
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