Qualcomm Improves Fast Charging with Quick Charge 4+

[Megalith]

In theory, quick charging can kill your battery faster. While I’m not sure anyone has actually noticed a difference, Qualcomm has added three improvements to Quick Charge 4, some of which may alleviate that and other worries: Dual Charge divides the charge current, allowing for lower thermal dissipation and reduced charge time; Intelligent Thermal Balancing moves current via the coolest path autonomously, eliminating hot spots for optimized power delivery; and a new safety feature monitors both the case and connector temperature levels simultaneously, warding against overheating and short-circuit or damage to the Type-C connector.

Just this week, the first device to include Quick Charge 4+ support was announced, the nubia Z17. The nubia Z17 is one powerful smartphone featuring, in addition to Quick Charge 4+ and a 3200mAh battery, the Snapdragon 835 mobile platform with an impressive 8GB RAM and 128GB memory, 23+12 megapixel dual rear camera, and a 5.5” FHD frameless display. With Quick Charge 4+, Qualcomm Technologies once again shows our leadership in charging technology. Since the first products came out over 4 years ago, Quick Charge technology has been included in over 130 mobile devices and 475 accessories, making it the most popular fast charging technology available by a wide margin.

 

[SighTurtle]

Damn, they are already on 4+?

Feels like yesterday buying a Quick Charge 2 charger.

 

[serpretetsky]

• Dual Charge: already an option in earlier versions, but now more powerful, Dual Charge includes a second power management IC in the device. Charging a device via Dual Charge divides the charge current, allowing for lower thermal dissipation and reduced charge time

I don't get it. Anyone understand how dual charging works? It "divides the charge current" to different IC's for faster charging? Why don't they use a more powerful single IC?

 

[Bandalo]

I don't get it. Anyone understand how dual charging works? It "divides the charge current" to different IC's for faster charging? Why don't they use a more powerful single IC?

It's much easier to dissipate heat from several smaller ICs than one large IC.

I wish there was some method for rapid charging that would be adopted by the USB community. Seems like there's half a dozen competing technologies, all which technically violate USB standards for power delivery.

 

[serpretetsky]

It's much easier to dissipate heat from several smaller ICs than one large IC.

I wish there was some method for rapid charging that would be adopted by the USB community. Seems like there's half a dozen competing technologies, all which technically violate USB standards for power delivery.

I wonder what's the typical power consumption of one of their chips, and why a small heatsink wouldn't be better.

 

[Bandalo]

I wonder what's the typical power consumption of one of their chips, and why a small heatsink wouldn't be better.

There's little room for a heatsink inside a phone, and no airflow for it. So you'd need to provide physical contact to the phone case to get any reasonable cooling.

And power consumption depends largely on current flow for power ICs. Higher current = more waste heat, even with the fairly efficient devices they use in the circuit.

 

[HeadRusch]

So now your phone charges in 2.5 instead of 2.9 hours? Anyone know what the battery-cutoff is on a standard cell phone? They are lithium ion packs so I'm guessing the phones show 0 power when they are at like 3.2 volts or whatever is typical for a "dead" Lithium Ion under load?

 

[Spidey329]

I don't get it. Anyone understand how dual charging works? It "divides the charge current" to different IC's for faster charging? Why don't they use a more powerful single IC?

It could also involve different battery layouts. It's quicker to charge two battery cells configured in parallel versus one larger battery cell. Less heat that way.

 

[BloodyIron]

One of the biggest problems in charging phones fast is the heat generated. As you generate more heat your efficiency drops, and if you heat the battery up enough it can reduce its lifespan and capacity.

This is why I'm very interested in onePlus' dash charging because it's 4A while remaining cool.

This new quick charge version might be very interesting too, once we see real world testing.

 

[Bandalo]

So now your phone charges in 2.5 instead of 2.9 hours? Anyone know what the battery-cutoff is on a standard cell phone? They are lithium ion packs so I'm guessing the phones show 0 power when they are at like 3.2 volts or whatever is typical for a "dead" Lithium Ion under load?

This depends largely on the voltage regulation circuits in the particular device and the "typical" current draw of the device. A typical phone's power draw spikes up and down a lot when in use. As the battery gets lower in charge, this can cause wider swings up and down in voltage. You can squeeze more juice out of a given battery, but there's a cost in terms of how much VR circuitry you need, the heat produced, and the charge time.

It also varies widely with the construction of the particular cell in question. You'd have to pull the data sheets for any given design to make those determinations.

 

[Bandalo]

One of the biggest problems in charging phones fast is the heat generated. As you generate more heat your efficiency drops, and if you heat the battery up enough it can reduce its lifespan and capacity.

This is why I'm very interested in onePlus' dash charging because it's 4A while remaining cool.

This new quick charge version might be very interesting too, once we see real world testing.

That's not really possible with a Li-Ion or Li-Po battery. When you charge fast, you generate heat. "Dash" charging does heat up the battery more than slow charging, exactly the same as QC1,2,3 or 4. You can't beat chemistry. Higher temps do reduce the lifespan of the battery, but that can be reduced depending on your design. You don't have to make it last forever anyway, just until the warranty expires.

The "Dash" charger moves a bunch of the VR hardware to the charger (meaning you need special hardware) to try to reduce SOME of that heat out of the phone, but it's not going to increase battery life. In a typical phone, the VR hardware is down near the charging connector, away from the battery for exactly this reason.

 

[scojer]

When are they going to incorporate this into their charging lineup?

 

[HeadRusch]

This depends largely on the voltage regulation circuits in the particular device and the "typical" current draw of the device. A typical phone's power draw spikes up and down a lot when in use. As the battery gets lower in charge, this can cause wider swings up and down in voltage. You can squeeze more juice out of a given battery, but there's a cost in terms of how much VR circuitry you need, the heat produced, and the charge time.

It also varies widely with the construction of the particular cell in question. You'd have to pull the data sheets for any given design to make those determinations.

I didn't mean operational voltage, I meant the cutoff threshold for the Lithium Ion cells....I was just curious if it was a 'known thing' if, say, Samsung tends to keep their phones on a 3.0 or 2.8 cutoff versus, say, Apple cutting off voltage at 3.4...which is why you don't hear about exploding Apple Phones...much.....I'm not a phone guy so I figured I'd ask.

 

[Bandalo]

I didn't mean operational voltage, I meant the cutoff threshold for the Lithium Ion cells....I was just curious if it was a 'known thing' if, say, Samsung tends to keep their phones on a 3.0 or 2.8 cutoff versus, say, Apple cutting off voltage at 3.4...which is why you don't hear about exploding Apple Phones...much.....I'm not a phone guy so I figured I'd ask.

Samsung had one issue due to the phone's battery getting pinched inside the battery compartment. Partly due to some of the batteries being too thick, and partly due to the battery compartment being poorly shaped.

Here's a typical data sheet for a Li-Po battery. If you look on the 2nd page, you'll see the key numbers. These are nearly identical for EVERY cell phone battery, since they're really based on the chemistry of Li-Ion / Li-Po rather than technology. So you're looking at 4.2V for charging, 3.7V nominal@full charge, and around 2.7-2.8V for "cutoff". The charging & voltage regulation circuits in the device/phone are responsible for controlling the charging voltage and current, and controlling "cut off" when the voltage drops too low. In a single cell device like a typical cell phone, you can damage the battery by dropping too low on over-discharge. You won't notice that damage until you try to recharge the cell though. The charging circuity in any decent device should prevent over-discharge, and prevent the subsequent problems on charging if overdischarge did occur.

This stuff isn't really specific to phones, it's true for anything with a Li-Ion battery.

 

[groebuck]

It's not so much the fast charging it is making the battery last. I have been through several phones (I am pretty heavy user) and finding the one that meets my all day battery needs has been tough. I finally found one - the Moto Z Play. Omg is all I can say. I lasts me a day, a full day as in I come home and it is still at about 20%. Even my s7 edge (my previous battery champ) needed to be charged on the way home to stay up. The other thing I like is the Moto Mods - I got the (no laughing) Kate Spade wireless battery mod for dirt cheap on ebay (24.99) It packs on a 3300 mHA battery that connects magnetically to the back. Cool thing about it is you can set to efficiency mode - keeps the phone at 80% until the battery back dies....I made it through a weekend without having to put it on a charger...that was freaking amazing.

Long Story Short - QC4+ is nice - making phones that last all day on a single charge is nicer.