QMicra SFF Case

It definitely sounds like everyone likes water-cooling. *sheesh* I took a look at the Asetek WaterChill Dual 80mm Rad on the web and the pump, reservoir, controller and tubes should all fit inside the case. The radiator should mount to the outside back of our case. (It may even mount on the inside to the two front fans but this wouldn't be ideal.) The one hitch might be that the push-on fittings on the radiator might have to face out rather than in for the tubes to pass straight through into the back of the case. We have a pre-made hole in the back of the case that allows cables to pass from the inside to the outside and it could be used for the tubes. (It also looks like the tubes could be passed through a card slot but we'd hate to eat up a slot for this purpose.) The problem is that the space between the fans and the card slots might be too small to make holes for fittings that big. The Dual Rad, along with a few other similar ones, look like great H20 coolers that will fit our purposes perfectly. It would look cleaner if the tubes went straight in so let me look into it and I'll keep you posted.

-Dave (pcdlab)
 
I feel like I'm trolling this thread now, lol...

I'd never mount a rad on the outside of a SFF. I'm afraid it would get damaged during travel, which is what SFFs are mostly for, right? That's why I've modded my QPack; bought some aluminum strips, cut, bent, and drilled 'em to fit the rad I ripped out of the Evercool kit. Looks really nice, I'm uploading the pics now. Gonna make a thread for it in the gallery. Too bad I have no parts to show off...
 
Nice job on the mod. I'm interested to hear how it performs as the radiator will be in a much warmer environment being inside the case... particularly in that location because you are drawing all the warm air generated from your components over the radiator.

As stated... we will be looking at radiator mounting solutions for Qmicra in more detail. The nice thing about Qmicra is that it's a great template for adding things (you'll see what I mean when we release the pics) but I want to look at it closer to see if we can offer some "out of the box" features that will be compatible with the more popular H20 kits.

-Dave (pcdlab)

PS: Yup... SFF's are great for travel... and that's why they make padded travel bags. ;)

M4rk said:
I feel like I'm trolling this thread now, lol...

I'd never mount a rad on the outside of a SFF. I'm afraid it would get damaged during travel, which is what SFFs are mostly for, right? That's why I've modded my QPack; bought some aluminum strips, cut, bent, and drilled 'em to fit the rad I ripped out of the Evercool kit. Looks really nice, I'm uploading the pics now. Gonna make a thread for it in the gallery. Too bad I have no parts to show off...
Click to expand...
 
My 120mm fan will blow cool air from outside the case over the rad. Most of the components in the case will be WCed anyway, so warm air shouldn't affect them much. About the carrying cases; will you be manufacturing any that fit the QMicra? So many people around here have been having trouble finding a case for their QPacks that's snug, but safe. Any plans?
 
Seriously applaud your ambition. Wish I had the resources to take on devevlopment.

-Great logo
-Handles look like bloody knuckles, always awkward grip and having them drilled through the corners of acrylic seems breakable.
-X-Qpack is popular, because of flexibility, but a fair number of people consider it large. I would try to reduce the dimensions, but try to maximize the space savings. Having room for 2 hard disks and a combo drive, I think, would be all most users would need. Then you can drop less airflow/efficient 80mm fans and drop in 2*120mm fans (by that I mean 2 in the front, 2 in the back - possibly one 120mm horizontally mounted PSU.). Tighten width, but leave more on the right side for Zalmans!
-Access. Pull out tray or collapsable sides would be a godsend.

Despite, complicated testing, simple math tells me that a 120mm fan is more efficient than 2*80mm fans.

120*120*25mm = 360,000mm volume
80*80mm*25mm*2 = 320,000mm volume

Not to mention the internal diameter of the 120mm probably has an even greater edge in fan area, as the hub is slightly smaller and it extends closer to the edges.

That is the reason silent PC enthusiast use a single 120mm over 80mm fans in their cases. 1*120mm is quieter than 2*80mm pushing the same CFM.

Also, sleeve bearing fans are quieter, ball bearing fans are more reliable. A sleeve will simply stop working, but a ball fan will progressively start getting noisier. Then again, when was the last time you had to replace a dead fan?
 
sleepeeg3 said:
Seriously applaud your ambition. Wish I had the resources to take on devevlopment.

-Great logo
-Handles look like bloody knuckles, always awkward grip and having them drilled through the corners of acrylic seems breakable.
-X-Qpack is popular, because of flexibility, but a fair number of people consider it large. I would try to reduce the dimensions, but try to maximize the space savings. Having room for 2 hard disks and a combo drive, I think, would be all most users would need. Then you can drop less airflow/efficient 80mm fans and drop in 2*120mm fans (by that I mean 2 in the front, 2 in the back - possibly one 120mm horizontally mounted PSU.). Tighten width, but leave more on the right side for Zalmans!
-Access. Pull out tray or collapsable sides would be a godsend.

Despite, complicated testing, simple math tells me that a 120mm fan is more efficient than 2*80mm fans.

120*120*25mm = 360,000mm volume
80*80mm*25mm*2 = 320,000mm volume

Not to mention the internal diameter of the 120mm probably has an even greater edge in fan area, as the hub is slightly smaller and it extends closer to the edges.

That is the reason silent PC enthusiast use a single 120mm over 80mm fans in their cases. 1*120mm is quieter than 2*80mm pushing the same CFM.

Also, sleeve bearing fans are quieter, ball bearing fans are more reliable. A sleeve will simply stop working, but a ball fan will progressively start getting noisier. Then again, when was the last time you had to replace a dead fan?
Click to expand...

he is using 4x 80s. and the airflow system will be better due to intake and exhaust, not only exhaust like the qpack
 
arabdon1203 said:
he is using 4x 80s. and the airflow system will be better due to intake and exhaust, not only exhaust like the qpack
Click to expand...
Not suggesting X-QPack fan design. Suggesting 2*120mm in the front and 2 in the back ( 1 in the PSU). Cutting the size down, I mentioned earlier could be complicated if you go that route, but you could eliminate one fan exhaust and do a lot with venting.
 
Thanks for the feedback and encouragement! We're glad we decided to open this dialogue at this stage in Qmicra's devlopment. (As far as I know... this has never been attempted by a manufacturer.) But we wanted to take the chance as you modders are all knowledgable enthusiasts and your input is always helpful.

In regard to cooling methods, I think it would have been debated no matter what we choose. *laffs* But, that's part of what makes modding fun! In the small form factor world, it will always be a trade-off between features due to the limited amount of space to design and mod with. In our case, you get a powerful yet quiet cooling solution(s), a full sized ATX PSU, (4) HD's, room for a dual GPU video card, (2) 5-1/4" bays, (1) 3-1/2" bay, space for most CPU heat sinks and a few extra slots for audio and TV cards. In addition to this, it is much easier to work with due to the removable cage, quicker to access due to the all-thumbscrew access design, more durable and attractive due to the thick anodized aluminum and has the greatest potential for modding and personalization. If you have a drill and a nibbler, you can add anything to Qmicra that will fit on/in it. And all of this comes in a package that's in the same size range as all the other popular SFF cases. It's bigger than the Shuttles, shorter than the Silverstone, basically the same size as the Q-pack... but it can hold more power than any of them! And in the future, when the internal components get smaller, we will shrink our case with it. Anyway, you'll see for yourself when we release the pics.

Your feedback is crucial in achieving our goal of pleasing the broadest range of desires as possible. So thank you for taking the time to look at what we're doing and offering your constructive criticism. I assure you that we are listening.

-Dave (pcdlab)

sleepeeg3 said:
Not suggesting X-QPack fan design. Suggesting 2*120mm in the front and 2 in the back ( 1 in the PSU). Cutting the size down, I mentioned earlier could be complicated if you go that route, but you could eliminate one fan exhaust and do a lot with venting.
Click to expand...
 
You need to get ahold of that SLI MATX Motherboard that Monarch is offering in their Hornet system for the Qmicra!

They don't list the manufacturer but it has EVGA colors and there were pics of an EVGA MATX SLI MB floating around
 
dworley said:
You need to get ahold of that SLI MATX Motherboard that Monarch is offering in their Hornet system for the Qmicra!

They don't list the manufacturer but it has EVGA colors and there were pics of an EVGA MATX SLI MB floating around
Click to expand...

QFT!!
 
Designer has changed the length. It is 349mm (from 337) according to the web site. I think he should change to 393mm like SG01. I can't image that the length is enough for a regular ATX power supplies and a regular DVD drive. Unless, they are siting on top of each other.
 
ATX PSU's are 5-1/2" long while CD/DVD drives are typically 6-11/16" (Lite-On) to just over 7" with Plextor drives. With a case length of 13-1/4", that left us about 3/4"+ space between them. (The CD/DVD drive sticks out of the front about 3/16" to become flush with the bezel buying us a little space.) So they did fit. But we added a bit of length to provide more room for cabling that was inhibiting the PSU from drawing air into its front vent. We also needed some additional length and height to accomodate the new dual GPU graphics cards coming in the near future.

In regard to the Silverstone case... there is no technical reason to lengthen it so we didn't. We also think making it that long gives it an odd looking aesthetic as with the Silverstone.

This is still a work in progress but we are nearly finished with the design work (our last prototype meeting is today actually) and we will post the updated specifications as we develop them.

Regards,
Dave (pcdlab)

PS: For more information about our design philosophy, read our "FAC" in the "About Us" page.

Flyboat said:
Designer has changed the length. It is 349mm (from 337) according to the web site. I think he should change to 393mm like SG01. I can't image that the length is enough for a regular ATX power supplies and a regular DVD drive. Unless, they are siting on top of each other.
Click to expand...
 
Any updates on this case? Expected release dates...pictures, etc.?

Edit: Also, will a Coolermaster Hyper 6 heatsink/fan fit in this case, fully loaded with a 7800 GS and TV tuner card?
 
MeathooK said:
Any updates on this case? Expected release dates...pictures, etc.?

Edit: Also, will a Coolermaster Hyper 6 heatsink/fan fit in this case, fully loaded with a 7800 GS and TV tuner card?
Click to expand...

We are done with prototyping and testing and now setting up for production. We are having a demo built so expect pictures in 2-3 weeks and the full run should be built in about 5-6 weeks. We will post any new information here as it becomes available.

I wish to re-mention that the QMicra case will only be offered with our full systems at first. We are more like a high-end custom sports car maker who focus on quality rather than quantity. But we are looking into ways of offering the case on its own (we are open to OEM orders from other computer companies and distributers) as the demand for it has been extremely high.

If the dimensions on the Cooler Master website are correct, the Hyper 6 is 120mm tall (just under 4-3/4"...it looks much bigger in the pictures...) which is about how high a 7800GT/X stands off the motherboard. I'm sure this was no coincidence as they made sure their heatsink will fit in any case that can hold a high end graphics card. Although we haven't tried one, the Hyper 6 could be a good choice as it works with our design to promote airflow from the front to the back of the case. (Unlike the Zalman CNPS7X's which pushes warm CPU air down on the motherboard and into the graphics card before exiting the case.) Anyway, Qmicra has enough clearance for not only most heatsinks but also for the new dual GPU graphics cards and Hauppauge dual tuner TV cards. And the removable cage holding the PSU, bay drives and hard disks will make motherboard components very easy to install.

-pcdlab
 
MeathooK said:
Sounds great...are ya'll going to do barebones kits? Or...just fully built?
Click to expand...

Right now it's fully built with only high end parts so no one should be disappointed in the components there will be to choose from. Also, our version of "barebones" is quite a bit different (and we think more innovative) than the traditional definition. Pictures of our case along with the method of configuring our systems will be released soon.

-pcdlab
 
pcdlab said:
Right now it's fully built with only high end parts so no one should be disappointed in the components there will be to choose from. Also, our version of "barebones" is quite a bit different (and we think more innovative) than the traditional definition. Pictures of our case along with the method of configuring our systems will be released soon.

-pcdlab
Click to expand...

I'm not management grad but it seems to me that a special case being built and then shipped will cost a lot and you gotta wonder who will want to pay for it? Maybe people that like high end "cool" looking stuff prefer to do it themselves (thus these forums). Other people don't care too much and order the Dell. I think releasing the case is a good idea to kinda get the people that won't that case to get it. But hell, I am not good with determining customer bases.
 
Mr. Dave, Kudos! Yourself showing up in this thread is DEFINATELY something we should be seeing from other manufacturers.. It is extremely useful for answering specific questions and eliminating speculation. I am excited to see the results of your work in ~2 weeks..

Couple questions:
- What is the total weight(minus the PSU) of the "barebones" case looking to be around? I am trying to get an idea what this puppy is going to weigh fully loaded.
- Any thoughts about having a handle located in the top center of the case? When I am transporting my Qpack, I do so with one hand. It was one of the reasons I purchsed it. Or are the bars along the side meant to be used to transport it with one hand???
- You had asked earlier in the thread, I believe, about windows on the cases. I would have to say it is very popular, and was wondering if you could clarify about whether or not the case is going to be available with windows(not the OS :p ). I personally think that windows on each side and the top would be an awesome option.
- If windows are considered, do you think that mesh in place of the windows would be something you guys could handle in-house? Anodized to match mesh would be a dream come true for me...

Anyways, enough pestering, I was starting to get away from legitimate questions and started reading off my SFF wishlist. lol. Thanks in advance!


/subscribed
 
PCduster said:
Mr. Dave, Kudos! Yourself showing up in this thread is DEFINATELY something we should be seeing from other manufacturers.. It is extremely useful for answering specific questions and eliminating speculation. I am excited to see the results of your work in ~2 weeks..

Couple questions:
- What is the total weight(minus the PSU) of the "barebones" case looking to be around? I am trying to get an idea what this puppy is going to weigh fully loaded.
- Any thoughts about having a handle located in the top center of the case? When I am transporting my Qpack, I do so with one hand. It was one of the reasons I purchsed it. Or are the bars along the side meant to be used to transport it with one hand???
- You had asked earlier in the thread, I believe, about windows on the cases. I would have to say it is very popular, and was wondering if you could clarify about whether or not the case is going to be available with windows(not the OS :p ). I personally think that windows on each side and the top would be an awesome option.
- If windows are considered, do you think that mesh in place of the windows would be something you guys could handle in-house? Anodized to match mesh would be a dream come true for me...
Anyways, enough pestering, I was starting to get away from legitimate questions and started reading off my SFF wishlist. lol. Thanks in advance!
/subscribed
Click to expand...

Wow... lots of questions. (They sounded legitamate enough to me.) As many have said, a picture is worth a thousand words and they will answer most of everyone's questions when we release them in a week or two. But here's a quick response in the meantime.

Weight: It's made entirely out of aluminum so the case itself is very light and sturdy. (Which can also be brushed and anodized for a sweet look!) Also, our concept of "barebones" is different from the traditional sense. But it won't be significantly lighter or heavier than any of the other SFF cases. We will release the weight specs with the pics.

Handles: Several factors drove us to their design. First off, they act as a structural component as well as functional handles. We also wanted to streamline the upper corners so warm air wouldn't have a place to accumulate. An upper handle often sticks out and you can't put things on top of the computer. There are several strap-on handles that can be used. Two handles make it more ergonomic to over around. And the handles offer some unique features for modding including one described below...

Windows: The cover won't come with windows as a standard feature. Many people like them but there are also those who don't. But that isn't the main reason for this decision. The cover was actually designed to wrap around as one piece with modding specifically in mind. This means that you could make a cutout that extends from one side to over the top and on to the other side of the entire cover. The handles provide the structure for the upper corners of the box so the entire cover is totally free to mod. (This is unlike other cases where you are limited to only cutting into the top and/or sides due to the structral elements at the corners.) Since there is so much potential for new window designs, the question wasn't if we should include a window... it was, "What kind of window should we add?!". So we thought we'd let you guys add what you want as it only takes a dremmel, some acrylic (or mesh) and some imagination. Just make sure you send us pics of your work!

We pretty much threw away the traditional case designs and started from scratch with Qmicra. And we built it specifically with modding in mind as well as including aftermarket parts as standard features. So clear your mind of traditional modding concepts as we're about to re-set the bar.

Once again, thanks for you questions, encouragement and input! :)

-pcdlab
 
That paints a better picture for me, thank you very much for the response.

I cannot wait for the debut, this definately sounds interesting!
 
PCduster said:
That paints a better picture for me, thank you very much for the response.

I cannot wait for the debut, this definately sounds interesting!
Click to expand...

I just thought you'd be interested in knowing that we ordered some cargo strap case holders to try out. If one works well, we'll probably include it with our systems.

Thanks for the input.

-pcdlab
 
I need a new mATX case to try with my SLI mATX EVGA MB - not happy with the current choices, but will probably end up with a Fragbox2 if the MB tests out OK for my needs.

I am definitely inetersted in a Qmicra Case if you would re-consider selling a few sample cases to [H] enthusiasts! I can definitely provide you with some valuable feedback as I have many high end components to throw at it :D
 
Please, please tell me that this will be $90 or $140-175 with a PSU, and I will buy it first day, no questions asked. Heh.
 
pcdlab said:
I just thought you'd be interested in knowing that we ordered some cargo strap case holders to try out. If one works well, we'll probably include it with our systems.

Thanks for the input.

-pcdlab
Click to expand...

Do you mean something along these lines?

http://www.datafuse.net/images/superlanboy/2.jpg

If so, I think that would be an awesome option.

The debut is getting close! Do you have any teaser shots?? LOL.
 
PCduster said:
Do you mean something along these lines?

http://www.datafuse.net/images/superlanboy/2.jpg

If so, I think that would be an awesome option.

The debut is getting close! Do you have any teaser shots?? LOL.
Click to expand...

Yup... one strap we ordered is a Geargrip Micro LT which works like the one shown in your picture except it's made for SFF's.

Nope... no teaser pics. No peeking in the oven until the cake is done. ;)

-pcdlab
 
SquallTiofae said:
Please, please tell me that this will be $90 or $140-175 with a PSU, and I will buy it first day, no questions asked. Heh.
Click to expand...

I can sell them for $175 each if you buy a thousand... where should I send the bill? :D The combination of precision machining, high quality materials/finishing, a small first run and being made in the USA will make the case quite expensive. It is intended to be a high-end option for serious modding enthusiasts and professional audio/video/gaming production. But everyone's interest definitely has us looking for ways to get it into the hands of people who have a smaller budget.

-pcdlab
 
dworley said:
I need a new mATX case to try with my SLI mATX EVGA MB - not happy with the current choices, but will probably end up with a Fragbox2 if the MB tests out OK for my needs.

I am definitely inetersted in a Qmicra Case if you would re-consider selling a few sample cases to [H] enthusiasts! I can definitely provide you with some valuable feedback as I have many high end components to throw at it :D
Click to expand...

A contest to win a Qmicra case? Hmmmm....

-pcdlab
 
pcdlab said:
A contest to win a Qmicra case? Hmmmm....

-pcdlab
Click to expand...

It would deff get people interested, I wouldnt be opposed :p Hell i would take a contest to see a picture of this thing :eek:

You have a very good market of people being forced to buy a qpack as thats the only price reasonable case
 
pcdlab said:
I can sell them for $175 each if you buy a thousand... where should I send the bill? :D The combination of precision machining, high quality materials/finishing, a small first run and being made in the USA will make the case quite expensive. It is intended to be a high-end option for serious modding enthusiasts and professional audio/video/gaming production. But everyone's interest definitely has us looking for ways to get it into the hands of people who have a smaller budget.

-pcdlab
Click to expand...
Don't sell the designs to Monarch or Falcon NW. Sell them to some other company that needs a good SFF solution. If I had a small computer company I'd buy your case, but not in such huge quantities...

Nvm, don't listen to me. I'm a noob. :cool:
 
M4rk said:
Don't sell the designs to Monarch or Falcon NW. Sell them to some other company that needs a good SFF solution. If I had a small computer company I'd buy your case, but not in such huge quantities...

Nvm, don't listen to me. I'm a noob.
Click to expand...

We don't have any plans on selling the design to anyone. (It's more likely that they'll copy our ideas forcing us to defend our patents against the governments of Taiwan and China. Sounds fun huh?) I was just trying to say that order quantities will effect the price. It costs less per unit to build 1000 than it does if you build 100. The more people order... the less it will cost. We wanted to make the best thing out there so we went with "high-quality at smaller quantities" rather than "mega-high volume chinese slave labor camp".

-pcdlab
 
Steeeeve said:
It is well into early 2006...you aren't paper launching us are you?
Click to expand...

I'm not totally sure what "paper launching" is but if you're asking if we're hyping up something that doesn't physically exist... then no. We're still on the schedule that we've posted here. We are about a week away from receiving the marketing model (which will be used to generate the pics) and the complete order should be delivered to us a few weeks after that.

-pcdlab
 
pcdlab said:
Nope... no teaser pics. No peeking in the oven until the cake is done. ;)

-pcdlab
Click to expand...

Darn, I always sample the cake before it is done. If anything, just a little peek!


pcdlab said:
I can sell them for $175 each if you buy a thousand... where should I send the bill?

-pcdlab
Click to expand...

What about some sort of pre-order, deposit sort of thing for us over here at [H]? I see it a lot on group purchases on car forums. i.e., there is a rear end for my car that costs ~$2500, but when there are 15+ confirmed orders, the price gets dropped down for us. It normally works pretty well.. save for the last minute back-outs and the people that say they will buy, but have no real intention on doing so.

Dare I ask what the pricing is for around 10 units?? lol. :eek:


pcdlab said:
A contest to win a Qmicra case? Hmmmm....

-pcdlab
Click to expand...

Or, to spread the joy, how about a contest for 10 people to win one at the 1000 unit price?? Either way, a contest would be awesome, and I highly encourage it!! ;)


pcdlab said:
(It's more likely that they'll copy our ideas forcing us to defend our patents against the governments of Taiwan and China. Sounds fun huh?)
-pcdlab
Click to expand...

I was working with a friend of mine on a design for a case specifically made for lan parties. We were pretty well into it(working model, chatted with a patent lawyer) before the realization that a patent in the U.S. does not necessarily mean that everybody will play by the rules. The biggest fear we had, was a successful launch and an immediate, cheaper, copy being released by a company over in the land of the rising sun. And that DEFINATELY does NOT sound fun...

Anyhoo, can't wait for the pics!
 
PCduster said:
I was working with a friend of mine on a design for a case specifically made for lan parties. We were pretty well into it(working model, chatted with a patent lawyer) before the realization that a patent in the U.S. does not necessarily mean that everybody will play by the rules. The biggest fear we had, was a successful launch and an immediate, cheaper, copy being released by a company over in the land of the rising sun. And that DEFINATELY does NOT sound fun...

What about some sort of pre-order, deposit sort of thing for us over here at [H]? I see it a lot on group purchases on car forums. i.e., there is a rear end for my car that costs ~$2500, but when there are 15+ confirmed orders, the price gets dropped down for us. It normally works pretty well.. save for the last minute back-outs and the people that say they will buy, but have no real intention on doing so.
Click to expand...

It would be very difficult to reporoduce our design cheaply but they can still take notes on some of our features such as the usefullness of having removable subassemblies and why airflow shouldn't be an afterthought with SFF systems. Anyway, we're prepared for it but hope we won't have to deal with it.

We're willing to try and work out a group pre-order. Wait to see the pics and we can discuss price from there.

-pcdlab
 
pcdlab said:
We're willing to try and work out a group pre-order. Wait to see the pics and we can discuss price from there.

-pcdlab
Click to expand...

"I love it when a plan comes together" - Hannibal Smith

han1.jpeg
 
Works for me. My QPack's too ugly to put in my living room. If this QMicra case is nice looking, I'd probably use one for a HTPC... ;)
 
A week away is fine....

You guys should allow us to have the bare case since we have been so helpful :) A group special order for SFFers would be nice. I'd probably go in for that...we could then write a collective review about the product and there you go! Might not be a bad idea for a new company either....it seems the people that would buy your case tend to like the views on the people that actually have them...what is more credible then 10-15 HardForum SFF experts?
 
We could start an AEG focus group for Qmicra :eek:

Now - where's my Dell 30" LCD!!!!! :p
 
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