q6600 and water setup questions

O

OlIv0rIolI

Gawd
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
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Hi, I am going to be building a new rig soon and I need a little help for water cooling. Here are my system specs

Q6600 (like half the people on this forum)
P35 motherboard, still debating between p5k deluxe or abit
2*1 gig pc6400 cas4 ram ( what’s a better overclocker cosair xms or crucial ballistix ?)
7900gs, not too big on dx10 or too much gaming
Thermaltake tough power modular 750 watts (is it overkill?, reliable, trustworthy psu?)
P182 case


My planned wc setups so far is
d-tek fusion or apogee gtx wb
Swiftech MCP655 pump
½” tubes or maybe 7/16”

I am only going to include cpu in my loop as of now. I might add graphics and chipset blocks later. My buget is under 300 dollars. My goal is to overclock up to 3.2ghz while keeping the temp under 26 idle, 45 load therefore low noise levels.

My questions are
1: the d-tek fusion is unsymmetrical as in the inlet is in the center and the outlet is offcenter, so wouldn’t that create uneven cooling and hotspots especially on a quad? Apogee doesn’t seem to have that issue.

2: How big should my radiator be? I am thinking 240 is enough and is it better to get two 120 rad or 1 240 rad? Also since I think I am getting a p182, how should I fit the rad in it? Any pics would be helpful.

3: I like to turn my comp off when I go to sleep, just because I don’t like to waste energy if I don’t have to. So does this effect water cooling setup negatively in any way? Or my comp for that matter?

4: Is the swiftech pump enough or too much? can I get something cheaper?

5: Is it necessary to add a chipset block for my overclocks or just a fan is ok?

Any suggestion and advice are welcomed. I am not looking for extreme overclocks, just as much as possible while keeping the cpu cool. This is my first water cooling setup and I hope you guys can help me out here, thanks
 
OlIv0rIolI said:
Hi, I am going to be building a new rig soon and I need a little help for water cooling. Here are my system specs

Q6600 (like half the people on this forum)
P35 motherboard, still debating between p5k deluxe or abit
2*1 gig pc6400 cas4 ram ( what’s a better overclocker cosair xms or crucial ballistix ?)
7900gs, not too big on dx10 or too much gaming
Thermaltake tough power modular 750 watts (is it overkill?, reliable, trustworthy psu?)
P182 case


My planned wc setups so far is
d-tek fusion or apogee gtx wb
Swiftech MCP655 pump
½” tubes or maybe 7/16”

I am only going to include cpu in my loop as of now. I might add graphics and chipset blocks later. My buget is under 300 dollars. My goal is to overclock up to 3.2ghz while keeping the temp under 26 idle, 45 load therefore low noise levels.

My questions are
1: the d-tek fusion is unsymmetrical as in the inlet is in the center and the outlet is offcenter, so wouldn’t that create uneven cooling and hotspots especially on a quad? Apogee doesn’t seem to have that issue.
Click to expand...
These concerns were brought up over on a thread over on XS. It has been proposed that the bowed GTX holds an advantage over the Fuzion on quads due to this reason, however, I don't think the debate went past the theory aspect (before TN and I got into each other, the GTX vs Fuzion was probably the hottest debate on the forum and resulted in world war III with the powers that be aligning on all different sides). The one proven fact from that debate was that the GTX's inlet/outlet placement was designed to prevent the temperature differences that occurred with the GT depending on the orientation.

2: How big should my radiator be? I am thinking 240 is enough and is it better to get two 120 rad or 1 240 rad? Also since I think I am getting a p182, how should I fit the rad in it? Any pics would be helpful.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't get anything less than a 2x120mm radiator for cooling a Quad. Now the Quad can be cooled on a 1x120mm radiator, but you'll need to crank those fans up and you might lose some OC headroom with higher temps.

3: I like to turn my comp off when I go to sleep, just because I don’t like to waste energy if I don’t have to. So does this effect water cooling setup negatively in any way? Or my comp for that matter?
Click to expand...
I leave my Home Office UFO on 24/7/365 without any issues. I also turn my main gaming/benching Horizon on and off whenever I feel like not listening to the hurricane inside of it (when I sleep). Neither exhibit any problems. However, there have been some reports by Gabe, Cathar, that the few DDC failures have been traced back to dirty PSU's frying their circuit boards upon start up. I haven't had/experienced any of this with the 6 DDC's that I own/run (with a 7th coming shortly in a D5 swap with BiffBuff).

4: Is the swiftech pump enough or too much? can I get something cheaper?
Click to expand...
I personally wouldn't get anything less than a D5. Cathar and others have stated that the Laing DDC (Swiftech rebadges it and calls it their MCP355/MCP350) is so terribly close to being the ideal water pump for its head pressure, flow rate, size, quietness, and cost. However, the perceived failure rate has somewhat cast it into doubt, but Gabe/Marci/ and many other retailers have stated that they've experienced less than a 1% failure rate.

5: Is it necessary to add a chipset block for my overclocks or just a fan is ok?
Click to expand...

It's not necessary at all. However, people have been able to squeak out better overclocks by watering the NB as sometimes the NB's temp/stability holds them back. You won't experience this until you start heading towards the extreme overclocks. There's really no reason to water your SB unless you have the notoriously hot 680i boards. Most people go passive on it with a heat sink. I just WC it anyway since I WC the NB in most of my builds. Another $20 for an MCW30 and 6 inches of tubing isn't going to kill me and satisfies my OCD-like desires to water everything.

Any suggestion and advice are welcomed. I am not looking for extreme overclocks, just as much as possible while keeping the cpu cool. This is my first water cooling setup and I hope you guys can help me out here, thanks
Click to expand...

I think you're pretty much set. The only thing I'd advise against is your PSU. Modular PSU's have a history of being subpar when compared to the stability of those that are non modular. I'd consider a PCP&C 750W Silencer.
 
whats a D5 pump? is that just another name for DDC or MCP pumps?

I guess I should stick with MCP350 and above.

Also at XS, the guide said that all parts should be soaked in vinegar for an hour. Is this wise?
 
OlIv0rIolI said:
whats a D5 pump? is that just another name for DDC or MCP pumps?

Also at XS, the guide said that all parts should be soaked in vinegar for an hour. Is this wise?
Click to expand...

A Laing D5 is not the same as a DDC.

A lot of the FAQ's at XS is...well antiquated, but some is really good too. They also don't take kindly to new ideas. ;) And no I wouldn't do that to my water cooling parts. Maybe the radiator insides.
 
OlIv0rIolI said:
My questions are
1: the d-tek fusion is unsymmetrical as in the inlet is in the center and the outlet is offcenter, so wouldn’t that create uneven cooling and hotspots especially on a quad? Apogee doesn’t seem to have that issue.
Click to expand...

The Fuzion is symmetrical: the water enters through the middle, travels to the 4 corners, then enters a tiny hole in each corner corresponding to the middle chamber. After entering the middle chamber the water exists through the main out. So water gets collected evenly, and the trajectory is even. So the Fuzion is a great block and so is the GTX. Since both perform very similarly, it mainly boils down to a matter of personal taste.
 
Top Nurse said:
A Laing D5 is not the same as a DDC.

A lot of the FAQ's at XS is...well antiquated, but some is really good too. They also don't take kindly to new ideas. ;) And no I wouldn't do that to my water cooling parts. Maybe the radiator insides.
Click to expand...

These guys at XtremeSystems are so knowledgeable, it is mind blowing. They take new ideas in just fine if they are within the boundaries of common sense, testing, and physics.


OlIv0rIolI,

If you want to add to your water cooling loop later, I would highly suggest going with a mcr320 rad and mount it on the outside. It will keep temperatures down lower and keep the heat out of the case.
 
The radiator is the only thing where I am having a headache trying to figure out where to place it. The P182 isn't radiator friendly. How would I mount it on the outside? If I put it flat on top, the airflow would be highly restricted. I need to move my system probably once every 2 month

I have never done any case mods nor do I have any tools to atempt it. Should I find a better case for water cooling needs or its time to start reading up on case modding forum. Any suggestions?
 
96redformula said:
They take new ideas in just fine if they are within the boundaries of common sense, testing, and physics.
Click to expand...

icon_risota.gif


OP/ How about using a Swiftech radiator mount on the back? You might also want to take a look at this AC item or this AC item as well.
 
I agree its probably going to be easier with that case to mount a rad off the back. I personally would do it this way, plumb the cpu loop with the dual rad out the back, and overclock until you don't htink you can get any higher. If you think your OC is too low and think you're chipset limited then maybe think about adding a second loop with a single 120rad in the front of the case to cool the chipset and video card. I might go with something close to this later this year if I go with a 45nm quad and new mobo.

Also, if you can find a corsair 620 or 520 for much cheaper than that 750, you might as well go with the cheaper corsair PSU, the 750 is more than plenty for your setup imo.
 
I am not going to get into what to buy, but here is a tip that will save you hours of time.

Just before you pull your board out, mark the mounting holes of the cpu, NB and SB through the board and onto the case's metal mounting plate for the motherboard.

Use a 1 inch metal hole cutting saw and drill holes in the mounting plate centered on those locations. (Be absolutely sure to collect all metal filings and get them out of your case. Vacume etc. get every last damn little bit of metal and metal dust. Use rags to catch what you can, blow it out, wipe, wipe again.

Here is the payoff, later if you need to change your block, remounte, add NB block whatever, you can take the right side panel off and get to the underside mounting without having to remove your board.

If you plan on changing boards every 6 months this is not a big deal, but if you keep them like I do, its well worth the price of a good hole saw bit ($5) and a el-cheapo hand drill. (rechargable drills suck unless you have a specific need for one).
 
I did the same thing, but accurately located the holes and used a 1/4" drill bit. Makes getting the water blocks off a snap. :D
 
BillParrish said:
I am not going to get into what to buy, but here is a tip that will save you hours of time.

Just before you pull your board out, mark the mounting holes of the cpu, NB and SB through the board and onto the case's metal mounting plate for the motherboard.

Use a 1 inch metal hole cutting saw and drill holes in the mounting plate centered on those locations. (Be absolutely sure to collect all metal filings and get them out of your case. Vacume etc. get every last damn little bit of metal and metal dust. Use rags to catch what you can, blow it out, wipe, wipe again.

Here is the payoff, later if you need to change your block, remounte, add NB block whatever, you can take the right side panel off and get to the underside mounting without having to remove your board.

If you plan on changing boards every 6 months this is not a big deal, but if you keep them like I do, its well worth the price of a good hole saw bit ($5) and a el-cheapo hand drill. (rechargable drills suck unless you have a specific need for one).
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I never thought of that. That's brilliant. All these years I just pissed and moaned, breaking entire loops down whenever chipset blocks were swapped or had to be remounted.
 
Just wondering how much better is PA120.3 than a MCR320? Is the difference worth the price difference?

Also do I need to buy a inline filter in the loop? Does it work or is unneccessary?
 
OlIv0rIolI said:
Just wondering how much better is PA120.3 than a MCR320? Is the difference worth the price difference?

Also do I need to buy a inline filter in the loop? Does it work or is unneccessary?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is better. I believe Ranker estimates 20-25%? Is it worth it? Up to you to decide. I'd suggest the MCR320 and see how it works for you. You could always upgrade at later date and sell the MCR320.

I've never had a filter in my loop, and the water appears very clean. If you make sure all your components (esp. the rad) are clean before you assemble, you should not have a problem. Just make sure you add something to "kill" any potential growth in the loop.
 
How would you clean the rad and all the parts? Is rinsing it with distilled water first enough?

and lastly, How is the corsair 620HX psu? I know its modular but it seems like everyone is raving about it.
 
OlIv0rIolI said:
How would you clean the rad and all the parts? Is rinsing it with distilled water first enough?

and lastly, How is the corsair 620HX psu? I know its modular but it seems like everyone is raving about it.
Click to expand...

Use boiled distilled water or diluted vinegar. For the HX, a 520 would be more than plenty for your rig... with room to spare.
 
I just ran tap water thru mine until it was clear. I then ran some distilled water thru it after that.

I believe (?) some people use vinegar. Hopefully, someone will come along to clarify that.

PSU: go the PSU forum. Seasonic makes the Corsair. I have an older Seasonic S12 650W unit, and the only thing I would like to improve on it is the modular cables. Absolutely quiet and rock solid power. You can not go wrong with the Corsair, which is the PSU I would get, if I were to get a new one.
 
It's a great PSU. If you read the review at jonnyguru.com, you'll see that it's extremely stable.

As for radiator cleaning, you can put vinegar in there for an hour. The guys over at XS say not to do it for more than an hour continuously because there will be too much oxidation.
 
Thanx for all the response guys. I am about to order everything this friday. Its a good thing that I live close to a Microcenter. I was there a few days ago and they have such a complete selection of hardwares. I just need some worm clamps and get some distilled water and I am all set. Looking forward to finally joining the water cooling club :D
 
grinchy said:
it only gets more exspensive from here...:)
Click to expand...

Truer words have never been spoken. I can honestly say most of my expense has been because I'm a "hard headed noob" to WC'ing.

I think if you listen carefully to some of the more experienced members of this and other forums you'll get first class advice. I have been impressed with some of the advise I've gotten. Thanks.

Oh yeah, if you don't listen carefully you get to learn the "hard" way like me, but when all the "smoke" clears for an "anal temp" person WC'ing's well worth it. ;)
 
I am looking at online stores now. Is jab-tech.com reliable? They have very good pricing, but I never heard of them. What about petrashop?
 
OlIv0rIolI said:
I am looking at online stores now. Is jab-tech.com reliable? They have very good pricing, but I never heard of them. What about petrashop?
Click to expand...

Jab-tech is reliable and regarded as one of the best, and their prices speak for themselves. Petra has great reputation with service but their prices aren't as competitive and they are usually out of stock for many items.
 
Ordered a GTX from Jab-Tech late last night and they've already sent me 3 e-mails including one with the tracking number indication that they've shipped.
Now I call that service.
But, this is my only experience with them so.................
Good first impression though.
 
OlIv0rIolI said:
I am looking at online stores now. Is jab-tech.com reliable? They have very good pricing, but I never heard of them. What about petrashop?
Click to expand...

Petrastechshop is the best place to shop at. They offer great customer service and will bend over backwards to make sure you're satisfied. I won't say explicitly, but once you develop a relationship with them, they'll do things for you that no other business would dream of.

Jab-tech is also very reputable and one of the cheapest places to shop at.

FrozenCPU is way too expensive. They're pretty much the more expensive place to shop at.

Performance-pcs is a tad bit more expensive than jab-tech or petras but they often carry stuff that the other places don't.
 
I got the comp parts. wc parts almost here. I went with apogee gtx, mcp 655, mcr320 and gigabyte p35 DQ6. I don't feel like bowing right now. Do I need to mount the gtx backplate since the dq6 already has a interesting backplate piece?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowI...+775+Intel+P35+ATX+Intel+Motherboard+-+Retail

Is that stock bplate enough to prevent motherboard warping from the pressure mounted by the water block?
I am not wc the chipset and not gonna remove the simcity heatsink or do any cutting.

I m also going with distilled water. But I don't know what coolant to go with. I am am guessing zerex or swiftech hydrx. I am not gonna use antifreeze because the water will never reach anywhere near freezing or boiling point. Do I need to add something that prevents gavanic corrosion?

And finally out of curiosity, I heard some good things regarding arctic mx-2. So where can you buy arctic cooling mx-2 or 1 for that matter since I can't find anybody with it in stock.
 
Bowing it is so so so easy. All you have to do it take out 4 screws, then replace the o-ring. Since the o-ring is a bit larger, I just put it in a plastic bag and put it in the freezer for a minute to shrink it down. It probably took me about 5 minutes to take out 4 screws, replace o-ring, and put the 4 screws back in.

I also did some heavy testing with thermal paste's and MX-1 had been giving me much better temps than AS5 after a 200hr break in. For some reason mx-1 takes much longer than AS5 to break in, but it defiantly gives better temps. MX-2 is reported to have no cure time and outperform MX-1 too.
 
Distilled water and Petras Pentosin are what I've used in my past loop. Do yourself a favor and pick up an extra container (or three) of pentosin for future use - I filled my loop in January @ ~10% pentosin (which was on the low side), and the other day I noticed a very tiny growth in my reservoir. D'oh!
 
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