[Q] about CPU cooling?

firas

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Not really sure about the basics of building a PC cooling solution but here is my thoughts

The CPU cooling device which will be
a CPU Fan (like this) or a CPU Heatsink (like this)or a CPU fan with heatsink (like this though I only see a fan) and this (here I can see both) and this (I also see a fan only)

Seems that they have some standard sizes like 80/92/110/120 and these sizes determine the case size (mid tower/full tower) so if we choose a 120mm cooler the case must be a full tower size

Why most people consider Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme the best CPU cooling selution though it doesn’t have a fan?
Can we install 2 parts together?
Any useful link for n00bs?

Ahhhh, the rest are too complicated so I’ll just stop here

Btw, what is this?
now I knew, it's a thermal goop between the CPU cooler and the CPU and for best results we should always use it

Personal reference
1 2 3 4
 

Raikiri

Limp Gawd
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Not really sure about the basics of building a PC cooling solution but here is my thoughts

The CPU cooling device which will be
a CPU Fan (like this)
That's a heatsink with a fan fitted, not just a fan... similar to the 9500 you posted but slightly larger.



The copper surrounding the fan is the heatsink, so you can't 'only see a fan'.

Slightly less clear here but the heatsink is underneath the fan.

Seems that they have some standard sizes like 80/92/110/120 and these sizes determine the case size (mid tower/full tower) so if we choose a 120mm cooler the case must be a full tower size
To some extent you are correct however you do not need a full tower case to fit 120mm fans/coolers. It varies between cases but most mid sized ATX cases will be able to fit the largest of coolers.


Why most people consider Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme the best CPU cooling selution though it doesn’t have a fan?
Can we install 2 parts together?
Any useful link for n00bs?
It isn't designed to be used without a fan, you add your own. They just don't include one so you have the choice between a lower performance/quieter fan or a higher performance/louder fan.

Btw, what is this?
now I knew, it's a thermal goop between the CPU cooler and the CPU and for best results we should always use it
It's exactly what you just said it is, what it does is fill in the tiny imperfections on the base of the heatsink (and CPU heatspreader) in order to get a better contact and thus increase the efficiency of heat transfer.

Hope all that helps :p
 

firas

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Thnx a lot for the answers
I see now that my main problem was that surrounding, now I know it’s a small heatsink (I thought it’s some decoration)

To some extent you are correct however you do not need a full tower case to fit 120mm fans/coolers. It varies between cases but most mid sized ATX cases will be able to fit the largest of coolers.
so what forces people to go for the full tower? A very large cooling system? Liquid cooling? 2 graphic cards? Many hard disks? Better air flow? a taller box to put the coffee cup on?

It's exactly what you just said it is, what it does is fill in the tiny imperfections on the base of the heatsink (and CPU heatspreader) in order to get a better contact and thus increase the efficiency of heat transfer
ya I saw it here

It isn't designed to be used without a fan, you add your own. They just don't include one so you have the choice between a lower performance/quieter fan or a higher performance/louder fan.
I saw an example here
this one doesn't have a fan though
http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/other/silent_pc/img/cpu_heatsink1.jpg

so is this way for a heatsink & fan

better than the rounded way (at least generally)
 

Raikiri

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In regards to full towers it can sometimes be the cooling system, if you're running a dual water cooling loops or a 120.3 rad then the extra space is useful, same for improved airflow and extra HD space. Sometimes people just prefer the larger cases :)

Generally speaking 'tower' heatsinks (like the Tuniq 120, Thermalright Ultra etc.) are the best coolers however ones like the Zalman you posted are useful in cases with limited space (Lian Li G50, small form factor cases).

One advantage the non tower coolers have is that the air is blown down towards the motherboard which helps keep the northbridge, power regulators and other bits cool.
 

firas

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I noticed that the Tuniq T-120-LFB 120mm CPU Cooler already have a fan and Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme doesn’t
how do we know what's the best fan for Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme ?

and befor I continue
is Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme really a good CPU cooler?
cuz these charts doesn't say that

this


and this


What are the factors for determining a good CPU cooler?
Aare they:
Fan Noise Level, Air Flow, Fan Speed, Weight, dimensions?
Or a chart showing the results for each cooler on the same PC?

Does water/liquid cooling delete all these stuff? is it always better than fans/heatsink? I noticed some cheap water cooling devices and wondered why people don’t go for it

dual water cooling loops or a 120.3 rad
so is there dual and solo water cooling systems?
what could be better than this? does cools the graphic card and other stuff also?
 

Raikiri

Limp Gawd
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I noticed that the Tuniq T-120-LFB 120mm CPU Cooler already have a fan and Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme doesn’t
how do we know what's the best fan for Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme ?
The best fan varies from person to person, if you want low noise then a Nexus 120mm fans will be very good, if you want the highest possible performance then something like a Delta 120mm will be (the delta will be extremely loud though).


and befor I continue
is Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme really a good CPU cooler?
cuz these charts doesn't say that

this
http://www.behardware.com/medias/photos_news/00/12/IMG0012863.gif[/IM]

[URL="http://www.tomshardware.com/2001/05/21/can/page30.html"]and this[/URL]
[IMG]http://images.tomshardware.com/2001/05/21/can/image005.gif[/IM]
[/QUOTE]

The Thermalright Ultra isn't in any of those tests.

[quote="firas, post: 1031724007"]
What are the factors for determining a good CPU cooler?
Aare they:
Fan Noise Level, Air Flow, Fan Speed, Weight, dimensions?
Or a chart showing the results for each cooler on the same PC?[/QUOTE]

How well it cools under the same conditions compared to another heatsink. For example using the same CPU at the same speed with the same fan. Weight, ease of fitting etc. also come into it but cooling is the most important factor to consider.


[quote="firas, post: 1031724007"]
Does water/liquid cooling delete all these stuff? is it always better than fans/heatsink? I noticed some cheap water cooling devices and wondered why people don’t go for it
[/QUOTE]

Not always, but most of the time.


[quote="firas, post: 1031724007"]
so is there dual and solo water cooling systems?
what could be better than [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835227001"]this[/URL]? does cools the graphic card and other stuff also?[/QUOTE]

A dual loop is simply two water cooling systems within one PC, for example one for the grpahics card and one for the CPU with their own pumps, reservoirs and so on.

That system you linked to only cools the CPU and as far as I know it's loud/expensive without being much better than the Thermalright Ultra Extreme.
 

firas

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The Thermalright Ultra isn't in any of those tests.
oops :eek:
well it took no. 1 here

but wasn't really good here and here

Not always, but most of the time
I’m meant if we install water cooling, can we still be able to use those or that they will block the pipes way?

That system you linked to only cools the CPU and as far as I know it's loud/expensive without being much better than the Thermalright Ultra Extreme.
wow

Someone at another forum (OCsclub) recommended those
http://www.petrastechshop.com/wacoki.html

i'm looking at this now
 

rhagz

Gawd
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Messages
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but wasn't really good here and here
No offense, but can you read?

here =
IT becomes clear that Thermalright ultra-120 eXtreme is one of the best super- air cooler . With one quiet 120- mm fan , Thermalright ultra-120 extreme cools the overclocked processor just as scythe infinity with two fans.

here=
It’s perfectly clear that the Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme is one of the best super-coolers available.
 

firas

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Ok I accept that Ultra-120 extreme is the best, but is it the best in its category only? Forget about water/liquid cooling

I mean is it better than this?

and this ?

they just seem much bigger than the ultra 120!

Or is it the ultra 120 then the water cooling
 

rhagz

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The sonic tower isn't quite as good.. it's decent though.

The other one is a VGA cooler...
 

firas

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How couldn’t that huge thing (sonic tower) be better than the Ultra-120 extreme!
Sorry about the VGA one
so again, is the “Ultra-120 extreme” the best CPU cooler out there after the water/liquid coolers? (supposing that it’s the best in its category of course)
 

rhagz

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It's a toss up between the TRUE-120 and the Tuniq Tower.

Not all tower coolers are made the same. Material quaility, design and more can influence their performance.
 

BillParrish

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Look again at the dimensions and the construction.

Heatsink Dimension 112 x 112 x150 mm (sonic tower)

Dimension:L63.44 x W132 x H160.5 mm (Thermalright)

That first dimension is the width which in this case is the "thickness front to back.
Notice with the Tt at least 1/3 in the middle of the heatsink is empty air, presumably to mount another fan so you could increase the speed of the hot air from the first (more to the front fin array) blowing on the second fin array :rolleyes:. Without that 2nd fan in the middle I would wonder about the airflow hitting those second set of fins, mainly my concerns would be the air is already warm, the turbulence from the air passing through/by the first fins would disrupt laminar flow and so the air would not be as effective flowing through the second set of fins and out the back of the case. BTW I am not even sure you can mount another fan in the middle. But I got off track.

If you estimate (and thats all I can do from the pictures) that 1/3 of the thickness of the Tt is empty air and remove 1/3 of the thickness from the overall dimension in an attempt to figure out how much is fins which do the work of removing heat, you get 112 - 37.3 74.6mm as a very rough guess as to the actual fin size. Note also the fins are not a basic square shape. That makes calculating the surface area impossible but it is obvious the area is less than it would be if the fins were basically square or rectangular. Now the termalrights are not exactly rectangular either but not nearly as irregular shaped. Actually the thermalrights are concave right in front of the fan for a good engineering reason, the extra space between the fan and the leading edge of the fins helps eliminate the "dead" spot of airflow in the middle of the fan due to the fans hub.

Now compare.
Heatsink Dimension: 74,6 x 112 x150 mm (sonic tower)

Heatsink Dimension: 63.44 x 132 x 160.5 mm (Thermalright)



Thermalright uses 12 heatpipes (well 6 bent into U shaped and soldered to the copper base)
http://thermalright.info/thermalright/images/pic/ex/DSC_0183.JPG

Sonic tower uses 6 heatpipes (well 3 bent into U shaped and soldered to the copper base.)


Neither product page tells us if the fins are soldered to the heatpipes or press fitted.

Thermalright Weight: 790g (heatsink only)
Sonic Tower Weight 692g (heatsink only)

More mass (weight) as a rule of thumb is always better for a heatsink.

These are things any fairly observant person should be able to determine from close inspection of the specifications. I do not mean to be rude or insulting but merely point out you need to be more observant. The Thermalright is not smaller, in fact it is significantly larger and better designed. Fin area and mass (weight) are the two things that make a heatsink what it is and the airflow over the fins is the primary means of removing heat from the heatsink. Knowing those things allows one to make a pretty good guess at what is good and what is not. Hint, that "dead" space in the middle of the sonic tower is not good. I will quickly admit it is hard to "see" through the marketing bullshit and manufacturers seldom show or mention the things that are not favorable to their product. That is why you must get out your bullshit detector and with a magnifying glass appraise the product yourself as best you can. It never hurts to also visit a store and look directly at the products if that is possible. This is why real stores (if the price difference is not too great, deserve our business).

LOL little mini rant, sorry, too much coffee, or maybe not enough :eek: Anyway the idea of this post was to show you and anyone else that wandered by what to look for and why. Anandtech's reviews of heatsinks are very well done and with no bias that I can detect and I tend to trust them. Sometimes you have to read between the lines in the conclusions but the performance charts are what they are and are pretty much unarguable.
 

firas

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Well first of all thnx very much, I’m really proud to be a part of such a conversation though I didn’t understand anything


Actually I still recall the first time I used my bullshit detector and that was when I bought my TV, I found two identical JVC TV’s but one had 2 holes at the front and the other had 3 holes so I picked up the triple hole TV and latter found that it’s a stereo hole and should make the sound quality better

Allow me to re-mention my previous question and this time please people ANSWER ME PLEASE I”M SUFFURING HERE

Is Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme (or Sonic tower or anything that is really close to their performance) the next best thing after water/liquid cooling?
excuse my noobines guys, I just want to make sure

EDIT:
Just to put you in the picture of what’s happening inside my head
When rhagz said
It's a toss up between the TRUE-120 and the Tuniq Tower
I thought there is a cooler called TRUE-120 and started searching for it !
 

rhagz

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The simple answer is yes, the Ultra Extreme 120 and the Tuniq Tower are the best air coolers you can get.
 

firas

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Ok then I guess the next step would be liquid cooling right?
Which I think is the right way (after reading this )
I also heard that air coolers like Ultra Extreme 120 could be better than some liquid cooling solutions
or maybe some other more expensive (than the Extreme 120) liquid cooling solutions will not offer much difference that deserves the $$
anyway thnx for you help and hope to see you after I finish my research about the liquid cooling and start spreading questions (damn choosing a wife is easier than building a PC these days)

EDIT:
found this now:
Tuniq tower 120 is better than Ultra 120 extreme if you get cheap fans.
Tuniq tower is 10% cheaper than Ultra 120 extreme without fan. If you buy a good fan like Scythe SFlex, then it cost you another 20$. Also, Ultra 120 Extreme is pretty tall, so do some research on its height requirement before buying. Tuniq Tower comes with fan concontroller, thermal compound, fan, and the heatsink itself. If you buy Ultra 120 extreme, you'll have to get a Fan, thermal compound, fan controller if you need one,
 

rhagz

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I got my Tuniq Tower for 40 bucks, unbeatable deal for one of the best cooling solutions short of spending $200+ for water.
 

Forceman

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Unless you want to get really hardcore, air cooling is probably good enough. The new breed of air coolers, the Tuniqs and the Thermalright Ultras and such, do a really good job with a lot less hassle than water. Unless you plan on really pushing voltages I'd stick with a good air cooler.


Ok then I guess the next step would be liquid cooling right?
Which I think is the right way (after reading this )
I also heard that air coolers like Ultra Extreme 120 could be better than some liquid cooling solutions
or maybe some other more expensive (than the Extreme 120) liquid cooling solutions will not offer much difference that deserves the $$
anyway thnx for you help and hope to see you after I finish my research about the liquid cooling and start spreading questions (damn choosing a wife is easier than building a PC these days)
 
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