PVA vs IPS ??

E

ead

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
133
Ok
Can someone please explain or make a bold statement about this topic?
Some guys say that right now PVA is better than IPS (and h-ips or s-ips and so on)
And some say the other way around
So
What is right and what is wrong?
if you take the latest lcd like Samsung 305T or Eizo or what ever vs DELL or NEC
Who is better and where?
 
IPS has better viewing angles, (generally) better color accuracy and little color shift. PVA has better blacks, but shows color shifts at off-angles (not as bad as TN, though). IPS panels are more expensive.
 
Most people agree IPS is better than PVA, especially if the IPS is an NEC with H-IPS and ATW Polarizer.

The advantage touted for PVA (better blacks/contrast) is kind of moot when you consider it is only better in one central area of the screen and the color shift will reduce in other areas of the screen. Handy for a producing high numbers with a sensor that only looks at a tiny spot perfectly perpendicular. Not so hot for people who see the whole screen.

Quite a few people also have had eyestrain/headaches from some wierd aspect of VA panels (possible the high horizontal tone shift cause weird glare effects). I am one of them. For me it is so bad, that I actually prefer TN panels to PVA panels. I consider PVA unusable.

Check out Albovins review of the Dell 2408 for a good PVA vs IPS comparison.

The biggest downside to IPS is the price, they are the most expensive panels.
 
IPS also has a lot more consistent ghosting than PVA if they are quoted to have the same response times. PVA may have 8ms gtg but it may have up to 60 ms in black to black, where as 8ms IPS may only have 20 ms black to black.
 
It depends on what you are using it for. My own uses are computer programming/analysis/writing and such and multimedia entertainment. However, if I was primarily interested in photography, my choice would be different.

This LCD TV (S-PVA) in front of me has substantially better black and contrast measurements than any S-IPS I've heard of. And it's 40 inches. (And it was relatively cheap -- so when something a lot better comes out, it's a less painful upgrade. And with a customized, lowered, stand, 40 inches actually works ok ergonomically...)

However, if I were looking for a 24" or more likely a 26" now, the NECs mentioned above would be the first things I looked at. (But I definitely wanted something big to console the loss of my high end CRTs...)
 
Are the *VA issues still a problem on LCD HDTVs or does sitting farther back negate them?
 
When it comes to computer monitors there are many IPS advantages. When it comes to TV sizes (especially 40" and bigger), TVs in the S-LCD line from Samsung and Sony (based on PVA tech) are better than the IPS panel based TVs in similar sizes. I think a lot of people try and directly apply what they know about 24" monitors to TVs and vice versa, the technology and benefits is not the same at both sizes, for various reasons.
 
albovin said:
Friend, it has been repeated 100 times.:)

Examples
Click to expand...

I agree with the example. I've got a Lenovo L220x which is a PVA and text is hard to read and everything is slighty fuzzy. The grain/sparkle of the panel doesn't help. I'm surprised this doesn't get brought up more often. I'm not sure how anyone uses this for serious color work. I find the grain/sparkle distracting even for normal web browsing.
 
mamboking said:
I agree with the example. I've got a Lenovo L220x which is a PVA and text is hard to read and everything is slighty fuzzy. The grain/sparkle of the panel doesn't help. I'm surprised this doesn't get brought up more often. I'm not sure how anyone uses this for serious color work. I find the grain/sparkle distracting even for normal web browsing.
Click to expand...

The grain and sparkle depends on the anti-glare coating, not the panel type. I've seen plenty of *VA panels without it.
 
Snowdog said:
Most people agree IPS is better than PVA, especially if the IPS is an NEC with H-IPS and ATW Polarizer.

The advantage touted for PVA (better blacks/contrast) is kind of moot when you consider it is only better in one central area of the screen and the color shift will reduce in other areas of the screen. Handy for a producing high numbers with a sensor that only looks at a tiny spot perfectly perpendicular. Not so hot for people who see the whole screen.

Quite a few people also have had eyestrain/headaches from some wierd aspect of VA panels (possible the high horizontal tone shift cause weird glare effects). I am one of them. For me it is so bad, that I actually prefer TN panels to PVA panels. I consider PVA unusable.

Check out Albovins review of the Dell 2408 for a good PVA vs IPS comparison.

The biggest downside to IPS is the price, they are the most expensive panels.
Click to expand...



I have a P MVA panel and frankly I find it a very good compromise between the problems of TN, SPVA and SIPS , not that SIPS isnt good, P MVA is cheaper and does offer better blacks however I dont see the colorshift problems associated with S PVA panels, my two cents....
 
Is there a resource that lets us know what panel type different monitors/tvs are using?

I have the 24" Westinghouse and the TX42" Westinghouse, and have confusion over what panel tech they are using. Clearly neither is TN, but the TV was rumored to be IPS.
 
Both are likely MVA. I have the L2410NM and it is MVA for sure, and I've seen the TX at the store, and I'm pretty sure it's MVA.

Westinghouse is manufactored by CMO which does not make an S-IPS/H-IPS panel, and I've never heard of them going to outsourcers.

You can find a database at TFTcentral.co.uk on the title page, but it's hit-and-miss on the panel types.

Regards,

10e



xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
Is there a resource that lets us know what panel type different monitors/tvs are using?

I have the 24" Westinghouse and the TX42" Westinghouse, and have confusion over what panel tech they are using. Clearly neither is TN, but the TV was rumored to be IPS.
Click to expand...
 
Relentence said:
Are the *VA issues still a problem on LCD HDTVs or does sitting farther back negate them?
Click to expand...

Probably to some extent, but I'd actually recommend DLP, SXRD, or plasma, for pure TV use. Especially, if we're talking a large TV in the corner, leaving everybody at off angles.

If Samsung would release an IPS type panel model retaining the viewing angles of the best IPS panels and the advances they've made with their recent TV's, that would certainly be an interesting product...

A related issue is that TV's before had inferior black levels, because they were tuned to go brighter to accommodate farther viewing distances and such. But now, it's often the TV that can go much darker, with many computer monitors being overly bright as fall out from their BS brightness spec marketing war...(was a great thread on this sort of thing a while back...) TV's can still go crazy bright, but the door to better blacks appears to have been opened by the manufacturers lowering their black levels to help achieve their increasing "dynamic contrast" numbers...(leaving this black level still manually accesible with "dynamic contrast" switched off.)
 
Right now the only TV manufacturers using S-IPS faithfully are LG and Philips (from what I know). My LG TV is very nice, and I used it as a monitor for about 8 months, and it was just as sharp as any LCD monitor, just bigger. I didn't find any issues with viewing angles or color shifts. Very happy with it.

Black levels are not amazing, but with two black level settings, it doesn't suffer from black level detail loss from what I've found, over HDMI, component, or VGA.

I got thumbs up from the wife as well.

MVA for TVs is fine because of the generally further viewing distance.

Samsung has made a lot of progress on their TVs and each year they seem to blur the line between high-end monitor and LCD TV.

Regards,

10e
 
I'm pretty sure my Sony LCD is a S-PVA (might be wrong), and it has absolutely PERFECT viewing angles, and delivers a stunning picture. I think PVA is the technology of choice for TVs and maybe for PC displays if you only want to game and browse, whereas IPS offers perfect quality at expense of blacks, and so is better suited to professional PC work such as photo editing.
 
I have heard this before. That PVA TV's dont' have color shift. Which does seem strange. If htey have the tech for TV's why not use it in monitors. I will have to look further into this.

BTW the expense of blacks is minimal these days. The latest H-IPS monitors seem to have blacks very close to PVA panels, close enough that it really doesn't matter. There really isn't much downside to a high quality IPS like the Nec 2490/2690 except for price.
 
Snowdog said:
I have heard this before. That PVA TV's dont' have color shift. Which does seem strange. If htey have the tech for TV's why not use it in monitors. I will have to look further into this.

BTW the expense of blacks is minimal these days. The latest H-IPS monitors seem to have blacks very close to PVA panels, close enough that it really doesn't matter. There really isn't much downside to a high quality IPS like the Nec 2490/2690 except for price.
Click to expand...

PVA based TVs have color shift. Every one I've seen anyway, including a new higher end Samsung I saw recently at the store...

There are a few PVA monitors where the black and contrast advantages are probably pretty evident. For example, the new Eizo 22" has a big measured contrast ratio and a backlight that goes very dark. (And of course the case of newer LCD TV's...)
 
There probably is color shift, but it is really much less noticeable than on my 2405fpw PVA monitor. Maybe Sony used an IPS panel, although I doubt it seeing as they are pretty much committed to PVA along with Samsung.
 
vick1000 said:
Panasonic and Toshiba use IPS almost exclusively in their TVs.
Click to expand...

Just ordered the Panasonic 32LZ800 - bloody 30+ day back order. Any idea what the difference(s) are between the A-IPS they [Panasonic] use and the S-IPS and H-IPS in desktop monitors?
 
Probably not much. It should be just as good as any of the normal S-IPS implementations.

Appparently H-IPS is the newest design, but doesn't seem to have changed much.

Regards and enjoy the TV in the summer when you finally get it :)

10e

Ankle said:
Just ordered the Panasonic 32LZ800 - bloody 30+ day back order. Any idea what the difference(s) are between the A-IPS they [Panasonic] use and the S-IPS and H-IPS in desktop monitors?
Click to expand...
 
I think the pixel layout is a little different with A-IPS, as in zigzag diagonal pixel lines, and some sort of overdrive like technology.
 
Here is some info on IPS Alpha:
http://www.ips-alpha.co.jp/en/technology/ips.html

One thing to note are the sub pixels are very defined compared to S-IPS from LG Philips. It could arguably be the best IPS considering they are produced in Japan. The 37" 1080p Panasonic 37lz85 is out now for $1200 which I'm eagerly awaiting to hear some first hand experiences about.
 
Thanks for the info, looking forward to the TV. Glad I went with it despite the backorder over the alternatives (32" 1920x1080 panels seem to be fairly uncommon).

I just wish there were some better choices in desktop monitors as well. At this point I'd kill for a good 22-23" 1920x1200 IPS with two or more digital inputs, hardware LUT and USB hub for my MBP and gaming PC. :(
 
Just wondering, why not go for a 24"? As far as I know, you can't get a 22" that is 1920x1200, at that size you are in the 1680x1050 class. You have to go 23" or up for 1920x1200.

I imagine an NEC 2490 would do real nice for what you want. It's a 24" IPS that has two DVI inputs, and hardware LUT. Only thing it doesn't have that you want is a USB hub, but then those are available as a separate unit.

Also if you don't need a hardware LUT, you can probably find more options in the 24" IPS arena.
 
Sycraft said:
Just wondering, why not go for a 24"? As far as I know, you can't get a 22" that is 1920x1200, at that size you are in the 1680x1050 class. You have to go 23" or up for 1920x1200.

I imagine an NEC 2490 would do real nice for what you want. It's a 24" IPS that has two DVI inputs, and hardware LUT. Only thing it doesn't have that you want is a USB hub, but then those are available as a separate unit.

Also if you don't need a hardware LUT, you can probably find more options in the 24" IPS arena.
Click to expand...

It comes down to DPI. On 21-22" 1680x1050 and the 24-26" 1920x1200 panels it is terrible at full arms length. Nothing worse than seeing the pixel grid and jaggies everywhere imo. Even with Apple's 23" 1920x1200 its rather meh. There was a 22" 1920x1200 shown at CES this year but I wouldn't be surprised if its TN as pretty much everything is these days. :( I wish I could get something like the DPI on my 15" 1440x900 Macbook Pro in a desktop display.

As for the NEC, the panel is older than the new H-IPS panels and I'd really prefer to not have more cable clutter and yet another box on my desk for a USB hub. I also find the side ports very convenient for external drives which I frequently exchange data on. (Only dialup available here, quicker to drive than wait forever for anything.) Hardware LUT isn't something I absolutely need but I'd much prefer it to software colour profiles.
 
The 1920*1200 22" is a Samsung PVA panel, found in a Lennovo and a Samsung model.
 
albovin said:
Friend, it has been repeated 100 times.:)

Please see here.

No matter Eizo, Samsung, NEC.
Examples.

Examples

Thank you.
Click to expand...

this comparison has no sense.
you are comparing a good IPS with a supermarket PVA.

I have read tons of reviews and Eizo Foris FX2431 (PVA) may be far better than Nec 2490 (IPS)...

I double post a post made some time ago about EIZO PVA vs NEC IPS
Surely you are more expert on monitors than me but you always forgot that the best for you isn't the best for everyone.

Reading the prad.de review Nec2490 is really worst than Eizo Foris FX2431 quite on all way.
From Prad.de about Nec:

- Interpolation isn't so good as Foris, no need to argue here.

- Black isn't good as Foris, infact they say: "The only point for criticism, although this is very minor, is the black value,"
"Some monitors with S-IPS panels and almost all models with S-PVA panels therefore beat the NEC 2490WUXi in this regard. (probably here you should do homework with me)"
You got a cheap pva (Dell), you can't compare it with an high end monitor.

- It's slower: "in direct comparison with extended colour space screens, the display is somewhat more "sluggish", "An Overdrive implementation should improve the monitor’s responsiveness. It can be activated and deactivated via the extended menu. However, the overdrive implementation only brings minimal benefits for the NEC 2490WUXi."

- It doesn't pass the ugra test, nec 2490 is completely kicked out from this test while the foris pass it with easy, AdobeRGB and ECI RGB is far worse than Foris.

- The operating noise of the model we tested can be distracting in very quiet surroundings (I work in very quite surroundings, Foris isn't audible)

- it lacks connectivity (HDMI Cec for PiP is surely a plus)

- The NEC 2490WUXi does not include a deinterlacer.

- Prad.de gives 2 very good to foris contrast, good to nec one.

Just to mention a prad.de phrase about foris:
"This colour stability is very good and thus allows for even, colour accurate display across the entire screen together with the S-PVA panel, with its stable viewing angles."

Where do you read that the Nec 2490 is the best absolutely?
From what I read Nec 2490 is the best for people who can't afford a better monitor like foris.
 
sblantipodi said:
ok but the article is still relevant, welcome to the real world :p
Click to expand...

Not really to this topic. It was a question for a person looking for specific monitors, and you come in randomly later to fanboy about your new favourite display, despite the fact that he already has a display at this point I'm sure.
 
Sycraft said:
Not really to this topic. It was a question for a person looking for specific monitors, and you come in randomly later to fanboy about your new favourite display, despite the fact that he already has a display at this point I'm sure.
Click to expand...

you are wrong, people that knows more than me are suggesting me a different monitor and I'm changing my point of view on the new basis that I'm learning :)
 
sblantipodi said:
this comparison has no sense.
you are comparing a good IPS with a supermarket PVA.

I have read tons of reviews and Eizo Foris FX2431 (PVA) may be far better than Nec 2490 (IPS)...

I double post a post made some time ago about EIZO PVA vs NEC IPS
Surely you are more expert on monitors than me but you always forgot that the best for you isn't the best for everyone.

Reading the prad.de review Nec2490 is really worst than Eizo Foris FX2431 quite on all way.
From Prad.de about Nec:

- Interpolation isn't so good as Foris, no need to argue here.

- Black isn't good as Foris, infact they say: "The only point for criticism, although this is very minor, is the black value,"
"Some monitors with S-IPS panels and almost all models with S-PVA panels therefore beat the NEC 2490WUXi in this regard. (probably here you should do homework with me)"
You got a cheap pva (Dell), you can't compare it with an high end monitor.

- It's slower: "in direct comparison with extended colour space screens, the display is somewhat more "sluggish", "An Overdrive implementation should improve the monitor’s responsiveness. It can be activated and deactivated via the extended menu. However, the overdrive implementation only brings minimal benefits for the NEC 2490WUXi."

- It doesn't pass the ugra test, nec 2490 is completely kicked out from this test while the foris pass it with easy, AdobeRGB and ECI RGB is far worse than Foris.

- The operating noise of the model we tested can be distracting in very quiet surroundings (I work in very quite surroundings, Foris isn't audible)

- it lacks connectivity (HDMI Cec for PiP is surely a plus)

- The NEC 2490WUXi does not include a deinterlacer.

- Prad.de gives 2 very good to foris contrast, good to nec one.

Just to mention a prad.de phrase about foris:
"This colour stability is very good and thus allows for even, colour accurate display across the entire screen together with the S-PVA panel, with its stable viewing angles."

Where do you read that the Nec 2490 is the best absolutely?
From what I read Nec 2490 is the best for people who can't afford a better monitor like foris.
Click to expand...

Albovin owns an NEC 2490 and will defend its integrity with his life if he has to. Hang out in this sub-forum long enough and you'll see him bash every other monitor on the planet. Nothing new.

edit: Oh good lord, just realized this is a revival thread.
 
gtg465x said:
Albovin owns an NEC 2490 and will defend its integrity with his life if he has to. Hang out in this sub-forum long enough and you'll see him bash every other monitor on the planet. Nothing new.

edit: Oh good lord, just realized this is a revival thread.
Click to expand...

yes I noticed it infact his nick is the first blacklisted when reading comments :)
 
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