Pump upgrade isn't fitting: help!

VanGoghComplex

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Edit: this thread is necrosis. Please scroll to the bottom to the first post with images for the actual question!

My loop is a Swiftech MCR140-X Drive, (equipped with an MCP30 pump), a Swiftech MCR240-QP radiator, an XSPC Raystorm CPU block, and an Alphacool NexXxos GPX GPU block.

I like the loop. The thing nagging me is the pump. I wonder if it's underpowered. I'm to understand that it's basically just an MCP35x pump, detuned to run at a 3,000rpm max instead of a 4,500rpm max. I'm told by Swiftech that I could swap it if I desired, it's the same form factor.

My question is, am I missing much in that last 1500rpm? I've got a little cash to spend, and I'm trying to decide between this pump upgrade, a set of Corsair's mag-bearing fans, or an SSHD.

Cheers!
 
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Bandalo

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Unlikely that you're missing anything. What are your temps like?
 

VanGoghComplex

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Fairly decent. GPU settles in at 50c during looped benchmarks, usually around 45c when gaming. CPU is similar.

I know those are phenomenal temps in general, I'm just too new to watercooling to know if I could go further with a higher flow rate.
 

Bandalo

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Fairly decent. GPU settles in at 50c during looped benchmarks, usually around 45c when gaming. CPU is similar.

I know those are phenomenal temps in general, I'm just too new to watercooling to know if I could go further with a higher flow rate.
You might be able to bump it up a bit. It's VERY hard to tell where the limiting factor in any given loop is located. There's just far, far too many variables. However, in most cases, pump speed is NOT a major factor. As long as you have SOME flow, you're probably OK. If you really want better temps, you'd probably only see an improvement if you cranked up the fan speeds, went to push/pull on the fans, or added more radiators.

That being said, if you're around 50C max under load, you're doing good. You CAN spend a lot more money can get cooler, but it's not going to buy you any fps or higher CPU speeds.
 

thesmokingman

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I'm to understand that it's basically just an MCP35x pump, detuned to run at a 3,000rpm max instead of a 4,500rpm max. I'm told by Swiftech that I could swap it if I desired, it's the same form factor.
The mcp30 is a 6w unit. It's very very weak and nothing like the power of a 35x which is a 18w unit. You could move up to a 10w, or go big with an actual 35x. I would stick with a 10w, like the Alphacool DDC310, comes with a nice cast heatsink case or similar pump. With a 10w pump you can easily add another block and rad, and you get most of the range of the 35x w/o the noise. The 35x delivers something like 95% of its power at 55% duty cycle, so you'd never actually run a 35x at full speed unless you like noise and vibration...
 

VanGoghComplex

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The mcp30 is a 6w unit. It's very very weak and nothing like the power of a 35x which is a 18w unit. You could move up to a 10w, or go big with an actual 35x. I would stick with a 10w, like the Alphacool DDC310, comes with a nice cast heatsink case or similar pump. With a 10w pump you can easily add another block and rad, and you get most of the range of the 35x w/o the noise. The 35x delivers something like 95% of its power at 55% duty cycle, so you'd never actually run a 35x at full speed unless you like noise and vibration...
Thanks for the lesson!

I'm locked in with the 35x because the rad/res/pump unit I have from Swiftech is physically compatible with it. So, I'm either upgrading to the 35x or not at all; I like my combo unit (keeps my loop nice and tidy) and don't want to go to a dedicated res/pump.

You bring up heatsinks: the 35x seems to be sold with one, optionally. Would you recommend the heatsink if I get the pump? It's located in that combo unit as such that it would already see a good amount of airflow without adding another fan.
 

thesmokingman

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Thanks for the lesson!

I'm locked in with the 35x because the rad/res/pump unit I have from Swiftech is physically compatible with it. So, I'm either upgrading to the 35x or not at all; I like my combo unit (keeps my loop nice and tidy) and don't want to go to a dedicated res/pump.

You bring up heatsinks: the 35x seems to be sold with one, optionally. Would you recommend the heatsink if I get the pump? It's located in that combo unit as such that it would already see a good amount of airflow without adding another fan.
Hmm, yer not locked in physically, maybe by warranty. These are like very simple contraptions, so if it was going to break it would have within the first week. After that anything that breaks is usually because of user error so I really do not put any weight on watercooling warranties and because they are usually only on the parts themselves.

As for yer question, you cannot use the swiftech heatsink on your setup because the swifty heatsink sticks out like an inch all around unless they made a new sink I don't know about. If you can fit a 35x, which is a standard DDC size then you can stick any DDC pump in it. I'd really reccomend the Alphacool DDC 310 because it is encased in a cast heatsink so it doesn't take up any more space than a normal DDC. It also comes without a top which is perfect since you will literally loosen/remove the old pump and mount the 310 directly to the pre-existing top, ie. direct fit. Look at the pics of the 35x heatsink below, I doubt there is any room to mount that sink on there. You'd HAVE to buy another company's heatsink like Koolance or Bitspower, which is incurring yet another fee. That makes the DDC310 all the more appealing imo.

Alphacool Laing DDC310 - Single Edition - Silver by Alphacool (Silver color)

MCP35X HEATSINK- PC Liquid Cooling Systems CPU Cooler VGA Water Block Heatsink Pump Radiator Heat Exchanger Kit
 
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VanGoghComplex

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Hmm, yer not locked in physically, maybe by warranty. These are like very simple contraptions, so if it was going to break it would have within the first week. After that anything that breaks is usually because of user error so I really do not put any weight on watercooling warranties and because they are usually only on the parts themselves.

As for yer question, you cannot use the swiftech heatsink on your setup because the swifty heatsink sticks out like an inch all around unless they made a new sink I don't know about. If you can fit a 35x, which is a standard DDC size then you can stick any DDC pump in it. I'd really reccomend the Alphacool DDC 310 because it is encased in a cast heatsink so it doesn't take up any more space than a normal DDC. It also comes without a top which is perfect since you will literally loosen/remove the old pump and mount the 310 directly to the pre-existing top, ie. direct fit. Look at the pics of the 35x heatsink below, I doubt there is any room to mount that sink on there. You'd HAVE to buy another company's heatsink like Koolance or Bitspower, which is incurring yet another fee. That makes the DDC310 all the more appealing imo.

Alphacool Laing DDC310 - Single Edition - Silver by Alphacool (Silver color)

MCP35X HEATSINK- PC Liquid Cooling Systems CPU Cooler VGA Water Block Heatsink Pump Radiator Heat Exchanger Kit
Okay, I think I understand. This is the unit I have:

Swiftech MCR140-X Drive Combination Radiator/Pump/Reservoir by Swiftech (Black color)

So you're telling me I'd just take four screws from the back of that block behind the radiator, and swap the impeller/motor assembly? Seems simple for sure, I've just never taken one apart.

That Alphacool looks pretty appealing, and comes in at ~$20 less than Swifty's 35x. Quiet is a word I like to see too.

Double thanks on showing me that Swiftech heat sink; I had no idea it hung out over the sides of the pump so far.
 

thesmokingman

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Four screws and you remove the pump n impeller. Then ya take new pump n impeller and mount it exact same way, reverse of how you took the old pump out. Four screws, not super hard. The DDC310 is hardly noticeable at 10w or something like 3600rpm iirc. I just built a simple loop for my nephew using one. The true gem part of the pump is the cast heatsink base. You'd pay 25 bucks for one from bitspower by itself. Btw, check the fs threads.

Bitspower Pump Cooler For DDC/MCP355 (Black) by Bitspower (Black color)
 

Tsumi

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Any of the DDC based pumps will work. For Swiftech, that is the MCP350, 355, and 35x. Koolance is PMP-400. And so on.

Given that your loop does not alternate block/radiator, you probably would see some cooling benefit with a stronger pump. A quick and dirty test would be to feel the temperature of the tube leaving the GPU block and then the tube leaving the 240 radiator while the system is under load, or measure it with an infrared thermometer. If there is a significant difference, then you will definitely benefit from a stronger pump. Ideally the difference between the hottest and coldest water in your loop will be less than 2-3 C.
 
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VanGoghComplex

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Okay guys, I bit the bullet on a Laing DDC310 and have hit a snag.

Here's the old pump:

IMG_20170109_121938197.jpg


And here's the pump top (the Swifty combo unit):

IMG_20170109_121922714.jpg


That little black plastic post on the inlet hits the center of the impeller on the new Laing pump:

IMG_20170109_121931872.jpg


There's an issue and a question.

Issue: I figured out that it didn't fit the hard way, by installing it. I didn't wrench on the screws when it wouldn't go flush, but I'm still worried because I'm not familiar with these types of electric motors. I put a thrust load on that spindle when attempting to assemble it: is that likely to have hurt the pump/motor assembly?

Question: I can't see another pump top online with that little post thingy on the inlet, so I'm assuming I can just Dremel it out. What are your thoughts?
 

pendragon1

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you didnt force it so its prob fine.
have you asked swiftech about it? it doesn't look like it was holding the old impeller in place or anything since the tip is so rough.
 

Nebulous

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I think you should send it back without touching/modifying it. Once you do, and it doesn't work, your warranty is out the window.

Don't mess with it and send it back for replacement.
 

VanGoghComplex

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I think you should send it back without touching/modifying it. Once you do, and it doesn't work, your warranty is out the window.

Don't mess with it and send it back for replacement.
My warranty is already out the window on the Swiftech unit, since I took it apart, and I'm not modifying the Alphacool pump.
you didnt force it so its prob fine.
have you asked swiftech about it? it doesn't look like it was holding the old impeller in place or anything since the tip is so rough.
I kinda already dremeled it a little bit.

I'm not seeing anything to convince me, however, that the Alphacool DDC310 requires any kind of post like that for stabilization.
 

pendragon1

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if no other toppers have it then it should be fine to rip it out. I agree it does not look like the new pump needs it.
 

Nebulous

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Ahh, well the only way to find out if it works is to run it and see. Best of luck.
 

thesmokingman

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Okay guys, I bit the bullet on a Laing DDC310 and have hit a snag.

Issue: I figured out that it didn't fit the hard way, by installing it. I didn't wrench on the screws when it wouldn't go flush, but I'm still worried because I'm not familiar with these types of electric motors. I put a thrust load on that spindle when attempting to assemble it: is that likely to have hurt the pump/motor assembly?

Question: I can't see another pump top online with that little post thingy on the inlet, so I'm assuming I can just Dremel it out. What are your thoughts?
Ohnoes, that mcp30 is based off the 50x. Looks like they changed the bundled pumps from the 2014 lineup and on. Refer to pics below. Pull the mcp30 impeller out and it should look like the below. Two things you can do, return the 310 and get a 50x or simply plumb the 310 in series. If plumbed in series you will get the combination of both pumps' power and get redundant failover.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1516369/my-review-of-the-swiftech-mcp50x-pump
 

VanGoghComplex

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Ohnoes, that mcp30 is based off the 50x. Looks like they changed the bundled pumps from the 2014 lineup and on. Refer to pics below. Pull the mcp30 impeller out and it should look like the below. Two things you can do, return the 310 and get a 50x or simply plumb the 310 in series. If plumbed in series you will get the combination of both pumps' power and get redundant failover.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1516369/my-review-of-the-swiftech-mcp50x-pump
Gross. I don't want to add another pump.

I don't mind modifying the Swiftech unit. If it's a simple matter of Swiftech pumps needing that center post and Alphacool pumps not needing it, I'll remove it. I just don't have the experience to know that.

So much for "any DDC pump will fit," huh? =)
 

pendragon1

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looking at other pics online it looks like it might work if the blue part of the new pump is sitting flush with the g1/4 opening after removing that peg. comparing your pic of the topper/peg to the first two it looks like that hump on top doesn't matter and inside looks the same. the peg aligns the different impeller but it looks like they both sit at the same height. you've already started grinding into it so you might as well continue and see if it all goes together right. the seal is a slightly smaller diameter but looks like there is enough room for it to work. if it seals and the blue part is gapped properly so water goes into the impeller instead of around it I don't see why it wouldn't work.




 

Nebulous

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Well? Everyone wants to know what's the verdict? Did the patient survive or what?
 

VanGoghComplex

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Well? Everyone wants to know what's the verdict? Did the patient survive or what?
It survived! Sorry for the time, busy night!

I wound up just snipping that center post out with wire cutters instead of trying a Dremel, in favor of avoiding plastic dust. It really is only held in place by a few 1/16th thick wisps of plastic. Then, after checking the impeller for clearance and adding some washers to the screws...

IMG_20170109_211413480.jpg


She's up and running! Well, the pump is, anyway. This is the JDM, or Janky Dialysis Machine. It really helps with this rig's reservoir deficiency. It's currently running one of two passes of Sysprep.

IMG_20170109_211425257.jpg


There was one casualty; see if you can spot it!
 

VanGoghComplex

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The little bump on the back of the pump top is from where I almost drove the pump mounting screw through it before realizing I needed to put washers on it. XD
 

pendragon1

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ah now I see it. I did notice it before but didn't think anything of it.
seems to work fine?
 
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