PSU’s for Future GPU’s!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,094
PSU’s for Future GPU’s!

Rumor, strong rumor, has it that the next generation of ATI GPU’s may draw over 300W’s each & most of that from the +12V rail(s).

If this is true, then there are currently very, very few ATX PSU’s that can power a fully loaded high-end PC running Crossfire with these future ATI GPU’s.

The PC P&C 850W has a max of up to +12V@54A (648W).

The ATX Zippy 850W PSU’s have a max of up to +12V@60A (720W).

The Silverstone Zeus 850W has a max up to +12V@70A (840W).

The PC P&C 1KW PSU’s have a max of up to +12V@66A (792W).

The new Enermax 1KW has a max of up to +12V@75A (900W).

All of these Supersize PSU’s sell in the $300+ to $500 range & even one of these monsters may not be enough!

Enter the new “Supplementary Graphic Power Supply Units”.

There are currently two of these available.

The Fortron (FSP) 300W (400W Peak) with +12V@25A.

Fortron BoosterX 3: http://www.home2000.net/client/fspgroupusacom/proddetail.asp?linenumber=230

Specs: http://www.home2000.net/client/fspgroupusacom/images/X3SPC.pdf

The Thermaltake (TT) 250W (300W Peak) with +12V@21A.

The Thermaltake PurePower Express 250W: http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/product/Power/PurePower/w0099/w0099.asp

Both fit in to an empty 5.25” bay, both have 2X 6-pin PCIe connectors and both run on standard 120VAC & plug in to your UPS or power strip.

Assuming you have 2 empty 5.25” bays, there is no reason why you couldn’t put 2 of these in your SLI/Crossfire system.

This is all rumor at this time, but I wanted to give everyone a "heads up".

Dave ;)
 

kleox64

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,467
split rail PSU's are gona have issues especially the 12V line, more importantly how much amperage is allocated to the 12V rail feeding the graphics card. Iam gona hold out until nvidia specifies appropriate PSU's for G80, expecially for SLI configs.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,094
kleox64 said:
split rail PSU's are gona have issues especially the 12V line, more importantly how much amperage is allocated to the 12V rail feeding the graphics card. Iam gona hold out until nvidia specifies appropriate PSU's for G80, expecially for SLI configs.
That is what I thought when reading JG's review of the Enermax 1KW, 5X +12V rails! :rolleyes:
 

Sloth

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 26, 2005
Messages
147
Heh, I'm counting on these new cards to have externals. I don't mind it, and it will give me time to save up for a nice KW psu when I can afford it.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,094
The marketing material included with the card claims NVIDIA requires at least a 450W power supply for a single GeForce 8800GTX, and 400W for the 8800GTS. Top tier vendors in Taiwan have already confirmed with DailyTech that GeForce 8800 cards in SLI mode will likely carry a power supply "recommendation" of 800W. NVIDIA's GeForce 7950GX2, currently the company's top performing video card, carries a recommendation of 400W to run the card in single-card mode.

http://dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4442
800W+ :eek:

More here: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4441
 

jebo_4jc

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2011
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
14,521
davidhammock200 said:
That article is why I came here. I thought, oh crap, my 500W Antec isn't going to get me very far anymore, so I better start looking for the next option.

nVidia and ATi are usually conservative with their PSU recommendations. In the past, they have recommended 400W PSUs, when a good 350 will do. They are trying to compensate for all the people buying low-quality, high advertised wattage PSUs.

I think nVidia's 800W suggestion is likely conservative. For this reason, I'm looking to buy something in the 700W-800W range in the next couple months. If Crossfire R600 is really pulling 600W between the video cards themselves, I will get a drive bay GPU PSU for the second card.

Dave, thanks for starting to put this info together. It is very helpful. However, I'm bouncing between a few different threads, and I'm a little turned around as to exactly which thread is for which purpose. Might I suggest putting one big thread together when the time is done? Or possibly just an overhaul of the PSU buying guide?

Thanks again for your efforts everybody. This continues to be the most knowledgeable, helpful, and informative subforum on the hardforums ;)
 

jebo_4jc

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2011
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
14,521
I'm thinking the FSP 700W for $155-$160 might be one of the best bang-for-your-buck PSU's in the high wattage category.
 

[Spectre]

[H] Admin
Staff member
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
16,038
davidhammock200 said:
There are some key points you neglect in your highlighting that I pointed out in the other thread so I am just going to copy paste:

kleox64 said:
Official G80 power requirements in SLI is 800W, here you go

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4442

doesnt look like a rumor anymore.
Interesting read.......here is what it says:

The marketing material included with the card claims NVIDIA requires at least a 450W power supply for a single GeForce 8800GTX, and 400W for the 8800GTS. Top tier vendors in Taiwan have already confirmed with DailyTech that GeForce 8800 cards in SLI mode will likely carry a power supply "recommendation" of 800W. NVIDIA's GeForce 7950GX2, currently the company's top performing video card, carries a recommendation of 400W to run the card in single-card mode.
So they are recommending a 450w PSU for a system with one card or an 800w for SLI not saying power consumptuion will be 450w or 800w. Big difference ;) Most interesting is the only 50w bump from the 400w recommendation for the 7950....hardly the impact some were expecting.

It ought to be interesting what the real power consumption are for the cards when it is released.
 

jebo_4jc

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2011
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
14,521
Spectre said:
So they are recommending a 450w PSU for a system with one card or an 800w for SLI not saying power consumptuion will be 450w or 800w. Big difference ;) Most interesting is the only 50w bump from the 400w recommendation for the 7950....hardly the impact some were expecting.
Although, keep in mind, you're comparing a dual GPU, 1GB card to a single GPU, 700MB card, and the single GPU card is the one that's 50W higher! :eek:
 

kuyaglen

[H]ardForum Junkie
Joined
May 15, 2002
Messages
9,233
Spectre said:
So they are recommending a 450w PSU for a system with one card or an 800w for SLI not saying power consumptuion will be 450w or 800w. Big difference ;) Most interesting is the only 50w bump from the 400w recommendation for the 7950....hardly the impact some were expecting.

It ought to be interesting what the real power consumption are for the cards when it is released.
Well said. I believe I'll be fine with my Antec True Control 550W.
 

[Spectre]

[H] Admin
Staff member
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
16,038
jebo_4jc said:
Although, keep in mind, you're comparing a dual GPU, 1GB card to a single GPU, 700MB card, and the single GPU card is the one that's 50W higher! :eek:
I know which is higher........... the point was the astronomical leap from the highest consumption NVIDIA card today (the 7950) does not appear to be there from NVIDIA's "guidance" in their "recommendations".
 

jebo_4jc

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2011
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
14,521
Spectre said:
I know which is higher...........
I wasn't implicating otherwise :)
Spectre said:
the point was the astronomical leap from the highest consumption NVIDIA card today (the 7950) does not appear to be there from NVIDIA's "guidance" in their "recommendations".
I wasn't under the impression that the general consensus was this upcoming generation of cards was going to be an astronomical leap over a dual GPU card like the 7950. I thought the expected astronomical leap was over today's higher end single GPUs.
 

[Spectre]

[H] Admin
Staff member
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
16,038
jebo_4jc said:
I wasn't under the impression that the general consensus was this upcoming generation of cards was going to be an astronomical leap over a dual GPU card like the 7950. I thought the expected astronomical leap was over today's higher end single GPUs.
Well...........when the techreport did their total system power consumptuion with the 7950 they got 237 watts under load http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q2/geforce-7950-gx2/index.x?pg=8

NVIDIA speced a peak consumption for the 7950 at 143w http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/power-noise_3.html

It has been claimed (ie rumored) here among other places (*cough*The Inquirer*cough*) that DX10 cards will use anywhere from 250w (thanks inq) to 350watts.....alone.

Needless to say i feel it is a bit premature to be running with those values. Not that they couldn't become true...but the same evidence people are using to say it is true....isn't definitive and can be interpreted differently when kept in context.
 

grizzed

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
171
So I recently purchased a PC P&C 750W Silencer thinking I'm going to be able to use this in my next build. Based on these numbers I just screwed myself. I haven't even taken it out of the box yet)

If I (eventually) want to run SLI with G80 I should have spent the additional $240 and gotten the 850W. That's just the (alleged) nvida recommendations.

So if I want the capability of doing some significant overclocking on a quad core that might not give me be enough. So to be safe I really should have dropped the extra $300 and gotten the 1000W PSU and most likely the 1KW-quad SLI since from the spy pics it looks like each card reuired 2 PCI-e connectors.

Does that sound right? INTEL/AMD have gotten power conscious and gotten smaller die, but video has no concept. Any SLI capable system would require a $400(ish) PSU?

This just seems fooked up, but that could be my $200 PC P&C doorstop talking.
 

J-Mag

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
3,640
grizzed said:
So I recently purchased a PC P&C 750W Silencer thinking I'm going to be able to use this in my next build. Based on these numbers I just screwed myself. I haven't even taken it out of the box yet)
No you didn't the 750w silencer will handle dual G80's fine, stop worrying... 60amps on the 12v rail is plenty.
 

kleox64

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,467
J-Mag said:
No you didn't the 750w silencer will handle dual G80's fine, stop worrying... 60amps on the 12v rail is plenty.
It wont be for SLI assuming your using 8800GTX's, nvidia is stating a requirement of 800W. 750W is cutting it too close IMO, if the cards are chewing 300W at full wack i.e. worst case then that only leaves 150W for the rest of your components. Also forget any kind of overclocking with an 800W PSU, a 1KW is your only choice. Why risk $700 a piece by using an underpowered PSU. Wait until Nvidia puts certified PSU's for SLI'ed 8800GTX's, there will be nothing under 850W in that list.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,094
These GPU's consume about 300W's each (300W to 350W in current silicon),
thus the requirement for a 400W minimum PSU for one GPU & 800W minimum for two GPU's.

The 400W or 800W minimum recommendation is for the entire system.

The ONLY 400W PSU I would even consider is the Enhance ENP-5140GH 400W.

Now in reality, it is not going to be that easy, as most 400W to 600W higher end PSU's use two or more +12V rails.

The most common arrangement is to limit the current at 18A or less per rail, however 18A x 12V = 216W,
now the mobo can supply up to 75W, so we have a total of only 291W, man this is cutting it close!

So I'm recommending strong single rail PSU's or multi-rail PSU's that will deliver far more that 18A on any required rail,
automatically as it is needed, for the main PSU & the Fortron BoosterX3 300W GPU PSU to power the second GPU.

This is what I could come up with in a short period of time.

Corsair HX 520W/620W (up to +12V@40A & up to +12V@50A)
ENERMAX Whisper II EG465P-VE FMA(24) 460W (+12V@33A)
ENERMAX EG651P-VE FM(24P) ATX 550W Power Supply (+12V@36A)
OCZ PowerStream 520W (+12V@33A)
PC P&C 510W/610W (+12V@34A & up to +12V@49A)
SILVERSTONE SST-ST56ZF ATX12V/ EPS12V 560W (+12V@38A)
Sparkle 550W (EPS) FSP550-60PLG (+12V@36A)
VANTEC ION 2 VAN-460N ATX12V/ EPS12V 460W (+12V@30A)
Any Zippy single rail with +12V@30A or more.

More soon.

Dave ;)
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,094
The problem is a lack of +12V amperage on the right rail(s).

The PC P&C 1KW has +12V@36A for the GPU's, that is only 432W for both cards,
the mobo can supply up to 75W per card, so that is a grand total 582W or only 291W's per card.

So even this is very tight & I think the Enermax 1KW with 5X +12V rails, is in even worse shape!

One of the 850W Zippy's has a single rail of +12V@60A, at least is 720W.

This is going to be a disaster!

Here is the solution! The Fortron BoosterX3, 300W GPU PSU! ;)
 

grizzed

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
171
From - other post
kleox64 said:
Just got some news back from PCP&C regarding the G80 power requirements, Iam not giving out specifics however it was agreed the 1KW QUAD does not have enough amperage on the 12V3 rail to run SLI'ed G80's. The new 1KW model will have a single 12V rail with 72A, it will appear in 4 weeks, just before G80.
 

kleox64

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,467
davidhammock200 said:
The problem is a lack of +12V amperage on the right rail(s).

The PC P&C 1KW has +12V@36A for the GPU's, that is only 432W for both cards,
the mobo can supply up to 75W per card, so that is a grand total 582W or only 291W's per card.

So even this is very tight & I think the Enermax 1KW with 5X +12V rails, is in even worse shape!

One of the 850W Zippy's has a single rail of +12V@60A, at least is 720W.

This is going to be a disaster!

Here is the solution! The Fortron BoosterX3, 300W GPU PSU! ;)
The PCP&C 1KW QUAD uses the 12V3 rail for the PCI-E slots, its connected to the main 24-pin E-ATX lead so that 75W doesnt exist!!!

12V1 is for CPU's only with 12V2 for drives (SATA and 4-pin MOLEX)



 
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,094
PC P&C will offer within the next month a 1KW Turbo-Cool with a single +12V rail, +12V@72A (864W)!

No existing PC P&C PSU is enough for these new GPU's!
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,094
PC P&C is now accepting pre-orders on their new 1000 Watt (1KW) Turbo-Cool PSU,
with a single +12V rail, +12V@72A (864W).

Price $529, shipping to begin 10-19-06.

Dave
;)
 

Dan_D

[H]ard as it Gets
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
55,503
davidhammock200 said:
The problem is a lack of +12V amperage on the right rail(s).

The PC P&C 1KW has +12V@36A for the GPU's, that is only 432W for both cards,
the mobo can supply up to 75W per card, so that is a grand total 582W or only 291W's per card.

So even this is very tight & I think the Enermax 1KW with 5X +12V rails, is in even worse shape!

One of the 850W Zippy's has a single rail of +12V@60A, at least is 720W.

This is going to be a disaster!

Here is the solution! The Fortron BoosterX3, 300W GPU PSU! ;)
I wondered why my new PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 has only a single 12v rail. Which is rated at 60Amps I do believe.

I thought it was strange since most of the PSU's kept using more and more 12v rails.
 

J-Mag

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
3,640
kleox64 said:
It wont be for SLI assuming your using 8800GTX's, nvidia is stating a requirement of 800W. 750W is cutting it too close IMO, if the cards are chewing 300W at full wack i.e. worst case then that only leaves 150W for the rest of your components. Also forget any kind of overclocking with an 800W PSU, a 1KW is your only choice. Why risk $700 a piece by using an underpowered PSU. Wait until Nvidia puts certified PSU's for SLI'ed 8800GTX's, there will be nothing under 850W in that list.
First of all, there is no way in hell we will see 300w GPU cards (unless there is an external power adapter). It would cause a gigantic RMA nightmare for the OEM's of nvidia. Thats 25amps @ 12v. Do you know ho many multi rail PSUs would not be able to even run one of these cards?

Secondly stating a 800w as the recomendation is taking into consideration all types of PSU's that will have different 12v rail configs. The 750w Silencer has no problem in this area.

STOP looking at the wattage. Amperage distribution is far more informative.


davidhammock200 said:
PC P&C is now accepting pre-orders on their new 1000 Watt (1KW) Turbo-Cool PSU,
with a single +12V rail, +12V@72A (864W).

Price $529, shipping to begin 10-19-06.

Dave
;)
Finally, I wondered why PC Power split up their 12v rail on their high end PSUs. 72amps @ 12v is INSANE! To bad the bastard is too big to fit in my case.
 

madgun

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
1,767
the owners of the pc power and cooling 750W and zippy 700W have nothing to worry about. Those PSUs will easily cut it out for the heavy duty SLI in case of an 8800GTX.
 

J-Mag

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
3,640
madgun said:
the owners of the pc power and cooling 750W and zippy 700W have nothing to worry about. Those PSUs will easily cut it out for the heavy duty SLI in case of an 8800GTX.
Seriously, people way overestimate power draw. I mean my rig only pulls 450ish watts and thats including my 21in trinitron monitor, 11 hard drives, and dual 7900gtxs...
 

jebo_4jc

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2011
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
14,521
J-Mag said:
Secondly stating a 800w as the recomendation is taking into consideration all types of PSU's that will have different 12v rail configs. The 750w Silencer has no problem in this area.
Exactly. A good reminder.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,094
Denial ... Dream On ... saddly these reports seem to be very true & total wattage won't help,
most of it must be on the +12V & those PSU's that divide it up & current limit the rails are doomed!

PC P&C has already admitted than none of their current PSU's are up to the task,
their new 1KW Turbo-Cool with a sibgle rail at +12V@72A, begins shipping on 10-19.

Dave :rolleyes:
 

madgun

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
1,767
that may only be a mere marketing strategy, so that people can shell out 530$ on Pc power and Cooling's Flagship PSUs. Infact we can't comment untill an SLI'ed 8800GTX is run on one of the current generation PSUs. Besides, if a PSU has 60amps on a single 12V rail... it doesnt seem logical for the cards to pull out more than 40amps on the 12V rails. Even then, the rest of the system has around 20amps available to run smoothly.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,094
madgun said:
that may only be a mere marketing strategy, so that people can shell out 530$ on Pc power and Cooling's Flagship PSUs. Infact we can't comment untill an SLI'ed 8800GTX is run on one of the current generation PSUs. Besides, if a PSU has 60amps on a single 12V rail... it doesnt seem logical for the cards to pull out more than 40amps on the 12V rails. Even then, the rest of the system has around 20amps available to run smoothly.
When the complete specs are released, everyone will see how ATI/Nvidia have truly gone power mad! :(
 

mage333

n00b
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
25
davidhammock200 said:
When the complete specs are released, everyone will see how ATI/Nvidia have truly gone power mad! :(
Will you post/link to the complete specs when they are available Dave? Sometimes a review will say this or that, but I've never seen an official Nvidia or ATI spec that describes in full detail:

How much current is drawn?
From which connection (PCI-e/Motherboard)?

I know they don't want to confuse Joe Consumer, but power consumption seems to be one of the most frequently asked quastions. It should be listed in exact numbers right next to clock speed, ram, pipelines and shaders.
 

darksythe

n00b
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
3
hey, just got a quick question here.
right now i'm in a limbo in preperation for my new G80.
currently, i own an OCZ Powerstream (600W), and im not sure whether it has enough juice to power up my X6800 + the 8800GTX.

do you guys think its sufficient? or do i chuck in my old Antec 380W into the rig ?

help is really appreciated! :D
 

whymeintrouble

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
143
was wondering if anyone has played with this at all. I'm considering it for my C2D system with a 8800GTX. this will be my main gaming rig, so will be OC'd both GPU and CPU.

thanks!
 

[Spectre]

[H] Admin
Staff member
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
16,038
THis old a thread shouldn't have been bumped for this. Let this thread drop as the information provided about power consumption has been proven wrong like I suspected. Start a new thread with your question and it will get answered in short order.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top