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PSU Roundups

_Korruption_ said:
Any word on who produces the Silverstone?
Click to expand...

I am not sure to be honest. I can look but for now I have this in case anyone can place it:

inside5jp.jpg


Compared to this:

http://www.slcentral.com/dual-12v-rail-psu-shootout/page4.php
 
Some of the Silverstone's are made by Enhance, but the Zeus unit I received looked nothing like an Enhance. Furthermore, there was no UL number on the box/label.

:(
 
Spectre said:
I am not sure to be honest. I can look but for now I have this in case anyone can place it:

inside5jp.jpg


Compared to this:

http://www.slcentral.com/dual-12v-rail-psu-shootout/page4.php
Click to expand...
I hate those paper based boards. I'll take good 'ole green 'glass any day. I used to build radios (for Bose) that used the same type of PWB. Cheap ass crap. They break really easily. And burn? Unbelievable. They put that crap in a power supply? Not a dime of my money will they get.
 
OK: Thanks for the GJ! :) Good to see it's Enhance. Consistant with other Silverstone models. Too bad the one I had didn't out perform anything I've tested so far (those two in the shootout and a third that I can't release until an NDA expires.)

Ren: You know PCB's can come in any color. BS brown, green, purple. You never know. ;)
 
jonnyGURU said:
Ren: You know PCB's can come in any color. BS brown, green, purple. You never know. ;)
Click to expand...
jonny,

I'm in SMT. I work with boards all day every day and have for the last 25+ years. Fiberglass boards do come in all colors now. Black, blue, red, green, purple, orange, etc. As we've come to see particularly in the pc enthusiast sector over the last 10 years or so. Especially with video cards.

This is not your typical fiberglass (FR4) board. It's a paper based board. Very cheap, very brittle. You probably haven't seen them much because you're used to seeing quality products. I could usually care less what color a given video card or mobo is, but in this case it's the color that gives away it's composition.
 
Renegade87 said:
This is not your typical fiberglass (FR4) board. It's a paper based board. Very cheap, very brittle. You probably haven't seen them much because you're used to seeing quality products. I could usually care less what color a given video card or mobo is, but in this case it's the color that gives away it's composition.
Click to expand...

Haha.... ;) I wouldn't say I'm "used to seeing quality products." But what is it about the PCB that gives away it's constuction other than it's color? Is it that "perforated" look it has?

It's funny to me that you call Bose "crap." My uncle worked for Bose up in NJ as a sales manager. He always said they were crap. Actually gave me a pair of speakers. Don't remember the model, but it was a 3-way 8"/4"/Piezo. The surrounds fell apart on the 8's and I asked him how much to replace them. He said, "don't bother. Gut them and put a pair of CV's in the cabinets." :D
 
Hi, I don't mean to hijack this thread or anything, but I noticed some discussion about Silverstone PSU's. Would anyone be able to tell me about the quality and overall longevity of the following?

Silverstone Zeus SST-ST65ZF

Thermaltake W049

I'll be using it with an SLI setup consisting of 2 6600GT's, but will need a good power supply for future gen cards as well. The power supply I need will also have to power a dual-core Athlon64 in conjunction with the SLI setup. Cooling is a major concern of mine also. Will a power supply like the Silverstone be thermally efficient despite having only 1 fan? If you don't want to post info about it here, please PM me.

Thanks
 
jonnyGURU said:
My uncle worked for Bose up in NJ as a sales manager. He always said they were crap.
Click to expand...

And I fully agree with him. I had to repair a Bose 121 outdoor speaker that had fallen once. Inside, I discovered the crossover used the same cheapo PCB material as the PSU in the pic, and had broken in half. I used a few jumper wires to fix it, and instructed the client not to drop it again ;)

Definitely paper based though - I've seen quite a few boards like this, and they do break easy.
 
jonnyGURU said:
Haha.... ;) I wouldn't say I'm "used to seeing quality products." But what is it about the PCB that gives away it's constuction other than it's color? Is it that "perforated" look it has?

It's funny to me that you call Bose "crap." My uncle worked for Bose up in NJ as a sales manager. He always said they were crap. Actually gave me a pair of speakers. Don't remember the model, but it was a 3-way 8"/4"/Piezo. The surrounds fell apart on the 8's and I asked him how much to replace them. He said, "don't bother. Gut them and put a pair of CV's in the cabinets." :D
Click to expand...
jonny,

First off, I'm not a component or design engineer, but have had first hand experience with these boards (thousands of them) in an incredibly fast paced 24/7 environment.

As far as the pwb goes, the color and texture gave it away. It's a single sided through hole, single layer design. They (Bose) use (or used to as their recent designs have changed over to FR4) this pwb material on some older amps and the original Wave Radio (which has since been redisigned with a high quality FR4 board also). As Oklahoma Wolf stated, they're very brittle and break surprisingly easy. And burn? Overload that PSU and get out the hot dogs to cook over the fire baby!

I worked for Bose (Better Off Somewhere Else) for 6 years. Their focus is on R&D. They invented the Satellite/Subwoofer technology so popular these days among other things. The old "Build it Better, Faster, Cheaper" is definitely their modus operandi. They have some quality products (the 901's were a legend in their day but that day has long since passed), but had rested on their laurels too long and were way too arrogant (bordering on megalomaniacal in my honest, experienced opinion) to realize they were falling behind.

They don't necessarily build "crap", they just build their products as cheaply as possible which is good business if you're in business. They are way overpriced. But then, so is the competition IMO.

They used to be an anally quality focused organization, but since moving the main production operations out of Massachusetts to South Carolina they have had some quality problems.

In my opinion, Bose doesn't build the best (as they would have you believe and brainwash their employees into believing and regurgitating on command) or certainly not the worst products available. They are well designed, but built as cheaply as possible (at least up to a certain pricing level) to maximize profits. Which again is good business if you're in business.

Enough of my rant. The preceeding is just my opinion. I could be wrong.
 
Renegade87 said:
They don't necessarily build "crap", they just build their products as cheaply as possible which is good business if you're in business. They are way overpriced.
Click to expand...

Which makes them crap. I don't think so many people would have the opinion that they're crap if they didn't price themselves so outrageously.

Which is better? Snap-On or Craftsman? Snap-On in many cases. Are they worth it? For some us who love our tools, yes. Does that make Craftsman crap? No. But you buy Craftsman knowing you get what you pay for. If Craftman was as expensive as Snap-On, but were the same quality they are now we'd say Craftwman was crap! ;)

There's a lot worse out there, but I can buy as good, if not better, at half the price. Therefore, Bose is crap. :D
 
jonnyGURU said:
Which makes them crap. I don't think so many people would have the opinion that they're crap if they didn't price themselves so outrageously.

Which is better? Snap-On or Craftsman? Snap-On in many cases. Are they worth it? For some us who love our tools, yes. Does that make Craftsman crap? No. But you buy Craftsman knowing you get what you pay for. If Craftman was as expensive as Snap-On, but were the same quality they are now we'd say Craftwman was crap! ;)

There's a lot worse out there, but I can buy as good, if not better, at half the price. Therefore, Bose is crap. :D
Click to expand...

I prefer craftsman because I get to break them as many times as I like and take them back.........and sears is 2 blocks away :D Convience wins.
 
Well, when I bought 90% of my tools, I worked as an installer at Monkey Wards (tells you how long that was) and the Snap-On guy came to ME twice a week.

Not to say Sears wasn't convenient too. They were in the same mall as the Wards. Sometimes Sears would have hand tools made by Facom or Allen and I would buy those because that's good stuff.

These days I buy a lot of Kobalt. People say they're made by Snap-On (obviously lower end, of course,) I compare the quality to Craftsman and there's more Lowes closer to home than any Sears (mall only, these days.)

Remember when there were stand alone Sears? Ok... I'm showing my age. :D
 
jonnyGURU said:
Remember when there were stand alone Sears? Ok... I'm showing my age. :D
Click to expand...

There still are some. That is what is up the street :p
 
Spectre said:
There still are some. That is what is up the street :p
Click to expand...

No kidding?

Wow! I haven't seen a stand alone Sears since... man.... It has to be about 15 years now.

Last one I saw was a "Catalog Store" in Vero Beach (Vero wasn't big enough to justify a full fledged Sears. They have one now, but they did w/o any Sears for ten years after that one closed!) and Tampa hasn't had one since the early 80's. Before the mall where I worked, Tampa Bay Center, was built (which is now closed down and torn down already) the Sears was stand alone (it's now Irwin Technical College) and the Monkey Wards was stand alone (it's now a Wal-Mart.) Those were the last two stand alone department stores in all of Tampa.

Sorry folks, but little catalog stores like Luria's, J Byrons and Service Merchandise do not count as replacements for Sears, Wards and Penny's. ;)
 
jonnyGURU said:
Which makes them crap. I don't think so many people would have the opinion that they're crap if they didn't price themselves so outrageously.
Click to expand...

Case in point: My mains cost a slight bit more than BOSE's high end stuff when I bought them new. Which would you take?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/291298.jpg
or

http://images.dr3vil.com/uploads/grillsonnetsize.jpg
http://images.dr3vil.com/uploads/grillsoffnetsize.jpg
http://images.dr3vil.com/uploads/backlargenetsize.jpg
http://images.dr3vil.com/uploads/backclosenetsize.jpg

The workmanship, as well as the spec sheets, speak for themselves.
 
jonnyGURU said:
Which makes them crap. I don't think so many people would have the opinion that they're crap if they didn't price themselves so outrageously.

Which is better? Snap-On or Craftsman? Snap-On in many cases. Are they worth it? For some us who love our tools, yes. Does that make Craftsman crap? No. But you buy Craftsman knowing you get what you pay for. If Craftman was as expensive as Snap-On, but were the same quality they are now we'd say Craftwman was crap! ;)

There's a lot worse out there, but I can buy as good, if not better, at half the price. Therefore, Bose is crap. :D
Click to expand...
I certainly can't argue with your logic jonny. As far as I'm concerned, Klipsch & Definitive Tech (to name just a couple) make vastly superior products for around the same $.

Bose will never get another penny of my hard earned money. But then my reasons are more personal in addition to the common sense you stated earlier. Besides, I already have a house full of Bose stuff (901's, 601's 100's, VCS-10, 151's) all puchased at the 60% employee discount years ago.

computerpro3 made the right decision. I personally have never heard his speaker model, but knowing that the 901's are rear firing (eight identicle rear firing 5.25" full range drivers and one front firing 5.25" full range driver) direct/reflecting speakers that require an external EQ (from Bose at additional cost) I would think that his setup would better handle a wider variety of source material (ie: Home Theater sources as well as music) which was not around when the 901's were first invented. The 901's will shake the walls when properly powered, but there are much, much better choices available for the same money.

Funny, I was just looking at Power Tools on Home Depot's site like 2 seconds ago. Rigid, Milwaukee, DeWalt, Bosch, and even Makita kick Craftsmans ass. But are Craftsman tools a better value? I guess it all depends on what you need it for and how much you'll actually use it (I suppose the same coud be said for Stereo/Home Theater Equipment or even pc hardware for that matter). But Spectre makes a great point, Sears is everywhere. If you get a defective drill or whatever or break a socket you could probably get a replacement without a reciept. Try that at Lowes or Home Depot.
 
Renegade87 said:
Funny, I was just looking at Power Tools on Home Depot's site like 2 seconds ago. Rigid, Milwaukee, DeWalt, Bosch, and even Makita kick Craftsmans ass. But are Craftsman tools a better value? I guess it all depends on what you need it for and how much you'll actually use it (I suppose the same coud be said for Stereo/Home Theater Equipment or even pc hardware for that matter). But Spectre makes a great point, Sears is everywhere. If you get a defective drill or whatever or break a socket you could probably get a replacement without a reciept. Try that at Lowes or Home Depot.
Click to expand...

Actually I only use Craftsman hand tools, and have broken plenty of sockets, breaker bars, torque wrenches, etc on old rusty motors. I have a hookup on Milwaukee products :D
 
yup, the DAntax Vision Two's have 2x 8in drivers for lows, a 5.25 in for mids, and a 1in tweeter.

More dynamic range, and believe me, these things can crank it out too. Mated with the SVS 16-46 sub I'm going to purchase as soon as my ultra's sell, and driven by a pioneer elite reciever, they will be untouchable.


and for tools, I use craftsman hand tools (unmechanical, I find they work well) and DeWalt and Makita for powered drills/screwdrivers. I've been very happy with them.
 
Renegade87 said:
Funny, I was just looking at Power Tools on Home Depot's site like 2 seconds ago. Rigid, Milwaukee, DeWalt, Bosch, and even Makita kick Craftsmans ass. But are Craftsman tools a better value? I guess it all depends on what you need it for and how much you'll actually use it (I suppose the same coud be said for Stereo/Home Theater Equipment or even pc hardware for that matter). But Spectre makes a great point, Sears is everywhere. If you get a defective drill or whatever or break a socket you could probably get a replacement without a reciept. Try that at Lowes or Home Depot.
Click to expand...

Power tools, no. You CAN'T do that at Home Depot or Lowe's... but hand tools you can. When it comes to power tools, you can't go wrong with Sears ten fold! They'll take the stuff back at ANY TIME in ANY CONDITION. THAT rocks! And if you get the "Craftsman Professional," well that's just relabeled DeWalt. I have a 10 year old 1/2" drill that's fallen off many a roof. It would be 15 years old if the chuck hadn't come loose after it hit the concrete driveway 10 years ago, but Sears replaced it. ;)
 
computerpro3 said:
Which would you take?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/291298.jpg
or

http://images.dr3vil.com/uploads/grillsonnetsize.jpg
http://images.dr3vil.com/uploads/grillsoffnetsize.jpg
http://images.dr3vil.com/uploads/backlargenetsize.jpg
http://images.dr3vil.com/uploads/backclosenetsize.jpg

The workmanship, as well as the spec sheets, speak for themselves.
Click to expand...

I'll take set #2 ;)

Actually I don't buy my speakers - much more fun to build them :D

I spent some time in pro audio, where Bose products are even more laughable than their consumer crap. Anyone ever see their "bass cannon?"
 
Going to do a google on it now. I seriously hope they don't actually call it a "bass cannon", I'll fall out of my seat laughing.

On a side note, anyone see Bose's "revoultionary new car audio speaker" called the, and I shit you not, "Bose Twiddler"?

Sounds like a sex toy :p


edit:

Okay their wave cannon looks to be a joke. It can only go down to 25hz, which ANY decent sub can do.

What's even more laughable is that a $900 SVS 16-46 or PC-ultra can do reference level volumes down to 16hz flat and down to 10hz at roughly -/+3db which I find amusing.

The only thing the bose bass cannon is good for cannon ammunition.

bose said:
Acoustic Wave® speaker technology produces pure bass that cannot be localized so the Panaray® Acoustic Wave® Cannon™ system can be separated from speakers reproducing mid and high frequencies.
Click to expand...

In other words, it produces normal bass (no bass can be localized) and it is a normal subwoofer.

This increases placement options.
Click to expand...

To the exact same extent every single other subwoofer ever invented does.

And, unlike conventional box enclosures, its tubular design allows placement against walls, floors and ceilings, for acoustic bass-loading techniques and increased low-frequency sound.
Click to expand...

So does ANY cylinder sub from SVS, HSU, etc
 
computerpro3 said:
Going to do a google on it now. I seriously hope they don't actually call it a "bass cannon", I'll fall out of my seat laughing.
Click to expand...

Uh-oh... should I have an ambulance standing by? I think that was indeed the name for it. Designed for movie theatres who were tired of their JBL 18" subwoofers I guess - never sold well.

I've heard of the twiddler - they've been calling them that a while now. Supposed to be a midrange-tweeter hybrid, but fails at being either.

Edit - ok, wave cannon was the name. Been a while since I heard of them.
 
The [H] guys are polishing up the "Most Off Topic Ever" award as we speak. ;)

For the record: I have a pair of Cerwin Vega AT-8's that are 20 years old and still putting along. Blew the piezo tweeters twice and CV replaced them both times no questions asked. The surrounds fell apart about 5 years ago, but had those fixed and they still sound perfect.

Also hae a pair of Sasui 8" 2-ways I bought from Wards when they went out of business. Those are as full range as the CV's, but they still sound better than my Bose did. ;)

I actually have both speakers stacked on top of each other in the living room. Some rcords sound better on the CV's where others sound muddy and I just switch to the Sansui's. For most TV, I use the Sansui's, but for movies I use the CV's. :D

Listening to Dark Side of the Moon right now.... those go on the CV's. ;)
 
jonnyGURU said:
The [H] guys are polishing up the "Most Off Topic Ever" award as we speak. ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah thanks for screwing up my thread :p I had nothing to do with it ;)
 
jonnyGURU said:
Also hae a pair of Sasui 8" 2-ways I bought from Wards when they went out of business. Those are as full range as the CV's, but they still sound better than my Bose did.
Click to expand...

Sansui ranged from crap to half decent depending who owned them at the time, but I'll take any Sansui or CV over any Bose product. Actually, I've been looking out for a pair of those huge CV Series 2000-15 speakers from back in the 80's. It was them being powered by one of Bob Carver's finest brutes of an amp that got me inspired to design my own speakers. So impressed was I with them, my 12 year old brain made me draw up a speaker design on notebook paper. I then sent the design to Gene Czerwinski himself. Never heard back from him or his company ;)

Two years later I built the first of the two speakers that are now my home theatre mains. Used Radio Shack and MCM parts. Getting ready to do a new Dolby Digital EX project in the next few years using Tang Band and Adire components - should be fun.

These days I consider CV to be barely a step above Bose, but back when I was 12 they really impressed me. Those dustcap logos just looked so damn cool to watch while bass heavy stuff was playing ;)

This is getting so off topic I may need a map to get back out of here lol.
 
Renegade87 said:
But Spectre makes a great point, Sears is everywhere. If you get a defective drill or whatever or break a socket you could probably get a replacement without a reciept. Try that at Lowes or Home Depot.
Click to expand...

Actually, I've been doing this for years. Home Depot took a lot of my stuff back without a receipt. It's all in how you say it...

-J.
 
The best was Sears once took back a wood handle 6 pound sledge that was well over 20 years old when I snapped the handle hitting a breaker bar. No questions just took both pieces and handed me a new one.
 
While it's nice you guys can return your products back to Sears, but isn't that "wrong"? If it fell off a building, then it would classify as being your fault. I don't mean to rile up an argument but I'm concerned with how people return the products with shady reasons (or even with no questions asked).

-J.
 
GeForceX said:
But wait, isn't that like... your fault? I don't mean to target you or anything but I'm concerned with how people return the products with shady reasons.

-J.
Click to expand...

Not really it is Sears's policy. While that policy costs it also makes them a lot of money......I don't buy hand tools anywhere else becasue of the policy and I buy A LOT of tools.
 
Yep. It's Sears POLICY. That doesn't make it wrong.

(Steering back towards topic.)

It's not like when I blow up a power supply with my SunMoon. I don't try to RMA those power supplies. THAT would be wrong because the PSU mfg doesn't expect people to put 30A loads on 20A rails and get their product back.

Sears' policy allows me to legitamitely return product. Heck, I've even returned product that wasn't "obviously" defective (like a power tool with intermitent problems) and had the clerk intentionally damage it before he threw it in the returns box.

When I had a bike shop, ALL of my vendors were like that. I'd have a bent derailleur, an inner-tube with a bad valve stem and a rim with a flat spot in it. The vendor would BREAK the derailleur, CUT the inner-tube and PRETZEL the rim before he threw them in the back of his van. :)
 
Renegade87 said:
I hate those paper based boards. I'll take good 'ole green 'glass any day. I used to build radios (for Bose) that used the same type of PWB. Cheap ass crap. They break really easily. And burn? Unbelievable. They put that crap in a power supply? Not a dime of my money will they get.
Click to expand...
What's wrong with those paper boards when they're reinforced with fiberglass, as every one I've seen in a PC PSU was? Even brands like Fortron/Sparkle and Antec seem to use them.
 
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