PSU options - lack of variety.

[UrbanSmooth]

Tony, what say you about a modular SFX PSU with short cables?

Might be time to jump on PSUs for the HTPC market, as this market grows in the coming months.

 

[akromatic]

considering the amount of hardware packed inside a seasonic x series PSU, it does seem that is it possible to make a small, quiet, efficient 600W PSU

my 750W x series barely spins up even under the load of 2x 5870 and a overclocked i7 920 so seasonic could get away with a smaller version with a smaller fan and rated less just for the sake of being rated within recommended load and it will still have enough power to run a moderately high performance system

 

[Tony Ou]

Tony, what say you about a modular SFX PSU with short cables?

Might be time to jump on PSUs for the HTPC market, as this market grows in the coming months.

I would like to see a SFX PSU with modular cables as well, but with the current technology available to us there is a big tradeoff for fitting modular connectors in a small SFX format. Would you rather have a 250W SFX PSU with modular cables or a 450W SFX PSU at the same price?

We will keep at it though, just need to wait for the technology to catch up to our ideas!

 

[Necere]

"First to fifty yoinks?"

Whatever floats your boat

The "chirping" issue started here on Hardforum half a year ago is troubling as we are unable to get enough feedbacks to help solve it. Although on the flip side, we reckon most customers are very happy with their ST45SF since we seldom receive support questions on it.

Or they just live with the chirping (I know someone who did that), or their hardware set up isn't drawing enough power to cause the issue at all.


While I've got your ear, here's my wishlist for a future SFX PSU:

For the same size as the current ST45SF:

• 500w+
• 92mm fan
• 80+ Gold (or better)

Possible deeper version (~125mm)

• 100-120mm fan
• Modular

 

[UrbanSmooth]

Tony, if you build it, they will come.

 

[akromatic]

Would you rather have a 250W SFX PSU with modular cables or a 450W SFX PSU at the same price?

or the 3rd option at a higher price? I think most of us are willing to pay the premium for performance / features

SFF is gaining popularity and most of us is waiting for the right parts to jump on board. without the right parts there will never be a market. it has to start somewhere

I would love a 600W sfx modular PSU, it would make the dream of dual GPU cards in a compact ITX possible

SG07 is a bit too long and not as compact as i like it to be, more efficient use of space is possible

 

[jeremyshaw]

or the 3rd option at a higher price? I think most of us are willing to pay the premium for performance / features

SFF is gaining popularity and most of us is waiting for the right parts to jump on board. without the right parts there will never be a market. it has to start somewhere

I would love a 600W sfx modular PSU, it would make the dream of dual GPU cards in a compact ITX possible

SG07 is a bit too long and not as compact as i like it to be, more efficient use of space is possible

It would of been possible if the PSU was placed in a sideways orientation, removing the ODD drive and placing the HDDs in a different location. However, the SG07 is barely larger than the SG05/SG06 (I've had all of them before ).

 

[protegeone]

or the 3rd option at a higher price? I think most of us are willing to pay the premium for performance / features

SFF is gaining popularity and most of us is waiting for the right parts to jump on board. without the right parts there will never be a market. it has to start somewhere

I would love a 600W sfx modular PSU, it would make the dream of dual GPU cards in a compact ITX possible

SG07 is a bit too long and not as compact as i like it to be, more efficient use of space is possible

Definitely the third option. m-ITX's only drawback is the PSU these days or rather their size and lack of flexibility.

You can build a nice system, but somehow it gets bigger then intended, just because of the need to put in an "oversized" PSU for its power.

 

[akromatic]

Definitely the third option. m-ITX's only drawback is the PSU these days or rather their size and lack of flexibility.

You can build a nice system, but somehow it gets bigger then intended, just because of the need to put in an "oversized" PSU for its power.

that and the uber long GPUs that blows the proportions out the window

 

[Curunen]

I wouldn't call the ST45SF a mediocre or bad SFX PSU as it is still the best in its class by a long shot. And as I mentioned in another thread (http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1036928033&postcount=9), it is a very good PSU in terms of reliability as it has been on the market for over a year now with low return rate.

The "chirping" issue started here on Hardforum half a year ago is troubling as we are unable to get enough feedbacks to help solve it. Although on the flip side, we reckon most customers are very happy with their ST45SF since we seldom receive support questions on it.

That's good to know; I'm only going by what I've read in this forum and elsewhere about the noise and other things.

I would like to see a SFX PSU with modular cables as well, but with the current technology available to us there is a big tradeoff for fitting modular connectors in a small SFX format. Would you rather have a 250W SFX PSU with modular cables or a 450W SFX PSU at the same price?

We will keep at it though, just need to wait for the technology to catch up to our ideas!

While I've got your ear, here's my wishlist for a future SFX PSU:

For the same size as the current ST45SF:

• 500w+
• 92mm fan
• 80+ Gold (or better)

I like that, but how about a mix, rather than all modular, or all non modular?

I would go as far as having most non-modular, and a few additional modular cables.
- Non modular being short cables - 24 pin, 8/4 pin, two 6+2 pin, and four sata power.
- Modular - two plugs for four molex and four sata power (1 cable each).

I don't imagine more than that is really needed for the number of components.
If people want dual video cards, or a crazy number of hard drives, then they should be prepared to buy a normal atx psu.

that and the uber long GPUs that blows the proportions out the window

Yeah, but I'll stick my neck out and guess that most/a lot of people don't really need/want £400 high end video cards for an itx or even matx build.

Better to have a more balanced build - 1 mid/high video card, 1 decent sound card (or external dac+amp if you prefer).

Or is it just me?

 

[jeremyshaw]

Yeah, but I'll stick my neck out and guess that most/a lot of people don't really need/want £400 high end video cards for an itx or even matx build.

Better to have a more balanced build - 1 mid/high video card, 1 decent sound card (or external dac+amp if you prefer).

Or is it just me?

Just you (nah, all wide variaties of builds, here ).
Before my FT03 (waiting on MaxIV GENE-Z), my sig rig was hosted in a SG07

 

[Curunen]

^Yeah I thought so!

But that's why there's the SG05 vs SG07 for example.


[Off topic - I would like to see a remake of the SG01, in the style of the SG07. So pretty much the SG07 just made a little wider and using an SFX psu in the same place, to accommodate a matx board. That would be pretty nice.]

 

[akromatic]

Yeah, but I'll stick my neck out and guess that most/a lot of people don't really need/want £400 high end video cards for an itx or even matx build.

Better to have a more balanced build - 1 mid/high video card, 1 decent sound card (or external dac+amp if you prefer).

Or is it just me?

well i like my epeen and stroke it too.

darno about you guys but i like as much GPU power i can get, i find 5870CF somewhat under performing at times and would love the horsepower to drive triple screens

now if only ATI and nvidia would make dual GPU cards at 9" and within 500W of total system consumption would be nice (ahh sweet dreams)

the thing is my SFF box is my main rig as well and not just a lanbox

with that said i hope to see more DTX formfactor or more quality USB soundcards as onboard is just crap ( Xonar U1 here)

 

[protegeone]

Now that we have established that there is no ideal m-ITX PSU around yet.

Still contemplating to build a nice, small system, am I correct saying the 275W or 300W
PSU would be more than adequate for this:

CPU i3-2100
HDD 2x 160GB WD black ( or 1x 16GB WD and an SDD for OS )
RAM 4GB
ODD Pioneer DVDRW
MB ECS H67H2-I or Gigabyte H67N-USB3

since then I might go for a quite outdated, but extremely nice size PSU.

Cheers

 

[Necere]

Still contemplating to build a nice, small system, am I correct saying the 275W or 300W
PSU would be more than adequate for this:

CPU i3-2100
HDD 2x 160GB WD black ( or 1x 16GB WD and an SDD for OS )
RAM 4GB
ODD Pioneer DVDRW
MB ECS H67H2-I or Gigabyte H67N-USB3

since then I might go for a quite outdated, but extremely nice size PSU.

For that system, as long as the PSU can supply at least ~12a @12v, then yes.

 

[protegeone]

Excellent.
The PSU has 14A on 12V, so I'm good to go

I'll only have to be patient to wait for the launch of ECS H67H2-I.

Thanks for all the help/input.

 

[RonindeBeatrice]

or the 3rd option at a higher price? I think most of us are willing to pay the premium for performance / features

SFF is gaining popularity and most of us is waiting for the right parts to jump on board. without the right parts there will never be a market. it has to start somewhere

I would love a 600W sfx modular PSU, it would make the dream of dual GPU cards in a compact ITX possible

SG07 is a bit too long and not as compact as i like it to be, more efficient use of space is possible

You have to remember it was just a few short years ago that matx caught up with atx offerings. I think mitx is right on track to follow in its footsteps.

 

[akromatic]

You have to remember it was just a few short years ago that matx caught up with atx offerings. I think mitx is right on track to follow in its footsteps.

exponential growth, a few years ago touchscreen smartphones were limited to windows mobile and now droids are all over the place

just waiting for a ROG mitx and more case/psu options that keep the mitx boxes in shape

 

[SaladDressing]

You have to remember it was just a few short years ago that matx caught up with atx offerings. I think mitx is right on track to follow in its footsteps.

A few short years is what enthusiasts are loathe to swallow while they are keen on building that SFF system right now.

Even though motherboards have gotten smaller, most GPU cards which deliver the goods are still full height according to a gigantic one or two decade old spec. Same goes for power supply units and other components.

Most compact advances have been made in the notebook arena but most of those parts are not generally available to SFF builders. e.g. slim optical drives in notebooks have been around for ages but they are still non-standard for desktop builds.

From my perspective, unless the power draw of the favoured components drop drastically, there will not be any huge physical size reduction any time soon. That will only happen once the industry realizes that desktop machines should now be as miniature as notebooks and they develop new physical size and power draw standards all round... and when will such a thing ever happen? Is it really around the corner to change the direction of this massive industry?

The notebook / smartphone / wearable computer will likely keep on defining the size of next generation components while the SFF builders remain mostly stuck with components built by standards set decades ago.

The only hope will be the demise of the desktop computer and the general availability of notebook and other mobile computer parts to cater for small size and low power draw builds. Then SFF will get really exciting!

 

[Patyrn]

For the same size as the current ST45SF:
500w+
92mm fan
80+ Gold (or better)

Possible deeper version (~125mm)
100-120mm fan
Modular

I would pay $150 for either of these. I don't think that price is much of an obstacle for the type of people that want powerful SFF systems.

 

[Skott]

I would pay $150 for either of these. I don't think that price is much of an obstacle for the type of people that want powerful SFF systems.

True, we just have to convince Silverstone and the psu manufacturers of that there is a big enough interest and market.

 

[UrbanSmooth]

LOL@a modular PicoPSU, like that's really necessary.

 

[Zap]

Why modular at all? Seriously, when building up an SG05/06, how many surplus connectors do you guys end up with? You'll still end up with surplus connectors with modular PSUs because you'll need one SATA power connector but the modular cabling has two or three on a strand.

IMO the best thing to do is to match the wiring/connectors to the case. For instance Antec did that with the EarthWatts EA380 in the NSK3480. It had wiring customized to the drive locations of the case and did not match a normal retail EA380.

 

[Curunen]

Why modular at all? Seriously, when building up an SG05/06, how many surplus connectors do you guys end up with? You'll still end up with surplus connectors with modular PSUs because you'll need one SATA power connector but the modular cabling has two or three on a strand.

IMO the best thing to do is to match the wiring/connectors to the case. For instance Antec did that with the EarthWatts EA380 in the NSK3480. It had wiring customized to the drive locations of the case and did not match a normal retail EA380.

I agree with that.
If anything it should be semi modular - everything attached with maybe one or two extra cables woth more molex/sata connectors for those who might shove in a few smaller hard drives or devices which need direct power.

 

[protegeone]

That really make sense. Basically I went after modular, just to have the absolute minimal cables in the case, specifically since building a small one. On the other hand one might not want specialised PSU for each case, since manufacturers are not that generous.
Thus this is one more plus for the modular. It is way better to "tailor further" a modular PSU then a bog standard non modular.

 

[grupenfield]

That's kind of a ridiculous statement, isn't it? You can build a respectable gaming rig that pulls less than half that wattage.

Exactly, my sentiments. I have a Seasonic x400 (fanless) and handles pretty much whatever I throw at it within reason. The idle power isn't generally more than more than 110 watts.