Proxmox is not free?!

Red Squirrel

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I just installed Proxmox on my new VM server to try it out, hoping to use either that or Xen. (I want to stick to free/open source stuff, not expensive commercial stuff or stuff that will have all sorts of limits)

It's telling me I don't have a valid subscription and pointed me to a webpage where I have to pay. I thought Proxmox was just a front end to KVM? Am I missing something here? I really want a solid 100% free solution, not some proprietary commercial nagfest. Is there another solution I can look at?

Worse case scenario I guess I can use KVM/Qemu directly.
 

TCM2

Gawd
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Proxmox Virtual Environment's source code is published under the free software license GNU AGPL, v3 and thus freely available via code repository (git) for download, use and share.

A Proxmox VE Subscription is an additional service program designed to help IT Professionals and businesses to keep their Proxmox VE deployments up-to-date and to provide access to professional support services.
http://www.proxmox.com/proxmox-ve/pricing
 

Red Squirrel

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I read that, but being prompted to buy a subscription each time gives me the vibe that it will expire after 30 days or something. Can I safely ignore that, or even better, is there a way to suppress it?

Also do I need a subscription to update it, that's what it sounds like.
 

PigLover

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Yes. There is a good way to make the nag prompt go away. Stop using Proxmox.
 

Red Squirrel

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Actually, I already gave up on it. You can't even specify an ISO path, every single ISO has to be in a single folder. No thank you. The console is also flaky as hell... If the VM has a bigger resolution that your PC you can't even scroll so you can't access a huge chunk of the remote screen. Ex: can't even click next on the install "next" button in Linux.

Trying out Xen... but the client seems flaky too, whenever I add a storage repository it adds it twice. I really want to stick to open source but damn... it seems they're all so freaking flaky.
 

TCM2

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If I was to move away from ESXi, I'd go full manual mode without the handholding tools, I think.

Configure networking with my own scripts. Run VMs with my own scripts. etc.
 

Red Squirrel

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That's what I'm starting to think... and looking at how inferior most tools are, perhaps there's a demand for something that's actually usable. Another todo project to add to my project list. LOL
 

/usr/home

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Just go with free ESXi. With only a single VM server you don't even need any of the licensed features.
 

Red Squirrel

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Just go with free ESXi. With only a single VM server you don't even need any of the licensed features.
I want to eventually go to two servers though, so I want to ensure I pick something future proof. In fact once I migrate all my stuff over from my old server I might reload it with whatever solution I choose.

But think I will end up just going with plain KVM/Qemu and I can script everything myself the way I need it.

Next purchase is probably upgrading my power plant then I may even build another supermicro box identical to this one. Then I'll be all set for another 5+ years of server computing lol. My current server is at least 6-7 years old, so I make my stuff last. :D The nice thing if I go with a redundant model though is I can upgrade software more easily.
 

danswartz

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You can have more than one free esxi server. Even if you want the fancy features, reinstall every 60 days or so (only takes a few minutes) and trial gets reset.
 
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Actually, I already gave up on it. You can't even specify an ISO path, every single ISO has to be in a single folder. No thank you. The console is also flaky as hell... If the VM has a bigger resolution that your PC you can't even scroll so you can't access a huge chunk of the remote screen. Ex: can't even click next on the install "next" button in Linux.

Trying out Xen... but the client seems flaky too, whenever I add a storage repository it adds it twice. I really want to stick to open source but damn... it seems they're all so freaking flaky.
Try XenServer 6.2 as it is open source now:
https://www.citrix.com/downloads/xenserver/product-software/xenserver-62.html

Free to establish an account if needed.

I do not know differences between Xen and XenServer or the client software.
I just have been a user of it for a while now ... no issues.
 

/usr/home

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Dealing mainly with Hyper-V and ESXi and having tried Xen, it annoyed the crap out of me trying to upload and mount any ISOs. Granted I didn't look super hard but it was annoying enough that I haven't bothered since. ESXi is just so much nicer IME. If you an AD infrstructure, Hyper-V is great. If you don't, I'm really digging ESX with V Center and HA.
 

Red Squirrel

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That's what I'm finding, the other solutions seem to have really minor, but still major enough annoyances, especially with ISOs and file paths. Even Xen.

Playing around with KVM/Qemu, using that directly seems to be the less flaky, but it still has some rather big drawbacks too, such as having to turn off a VM just to change the cd! Though I still have to look into the command line stuff, I might be able to do more stuff with that. Considering there does not seem to be any full featured open source/free non-commercial VM solution it definitely makes a potential project to think about doing. The hard part is the actual virtualization engine, but I can still use kvm/qemu for that and just build a wrapper around it. That's basically what Proxmox and lot of other solutions are.
 

Red Squirrel

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Think I'll have to give in and go with VMware. KVM is BLOODY SLOW! Windows 7 has been installing for the past 3 hours. Ridiculous. That's an install that normally takes like 10 minutes on a physical machine. It feels like I'm installing it on a 486.
 

danswartz

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One thing that annoyed me when I tried xenserver awhile back. You have an NFS datastore with the name foo. Cool. And there are 4 VMs named Able, Baker, Charlie and Delta. Cool. Wait though. When you look at the NFS datastore from that server, you see a bunch of GUID names, both for the datastore and the VMs. So if your xenserver install gets roached, good f'ing luck figuring out what VM is what. Thanks, but no thanks...
 

Red Squirrel

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One thing that annoyed me when I tried xenserver awhile back. You have an NFS datastore with the name foo. Cool. And there are 4 VMs named Able, Baker, Charlie and Delta. Cool. Wait though. When you look at the NFS datastore from that server, you see a bunch of GUID names, both for the datastore and the VMs. So if your xenserver install gets roached, good f'ing luck figuring out what VM is what. Thanks, but no thanks...
Yeah that is annoying. VMware does it the best really, a stand alone folder with the VM name and everything inside. I just wish the other solutions did this.

I'm really at a loss at this point, All the free/open solutions just arn't working out for me.

I still can't believe how SLOW KVM is though... Windows finally finished installing about half an hour ago, it's booting up now. It's ridiculously slow.

I think I will end up going ESXi. Though ESXi is very picky about hardware, the hardware has to be in the HCL, and since I did not originally intend to use it I never cross referrenced it, so chances are it wont work either. I may end up having to go back to virtualbox, but I find that setup is just so dirty because you need to keep all the VMs open in a VNC session or something. I want something that is more server oriented.
 

bmh.01

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If it's the supero box you posted in the networking thread you'll have no problems with esxi, barring the nics I don't think any of my four hosts have hardware on the hcl. Sure if you want support it needs to be on there but as long as it's not proper oddball stuff most of it works just fine.
 

danswartz

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Something weird at your end - I have run windows 7 under proxmox and it performs reasonably well. It's almost like it's not doing hardware accelerated VM?
 

Red Squirrel

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It's KVM now, I switched to that instead (though I'd probably have the issue in Proxmox too but never got far enough to actually make a VM, it was too flaky). I started a new thread to avoid confusion as originally I was trying out Proxmox.
 

lopoetve

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Yeah that is annoying. VMware does it the best really, a stand alone folder with the VM name and everything inside. I just wish the other solutions did this.

I'm really at a loss at this point, All the free/open solutions just arn't working out for me.

I still can't believe how SLOW KVM is though... Windows finally finished installing about half an hour ago, it's booting up now. It's ridiculously slow.

I think I will end up going ESXi. Though ESXi is very picky about hardware, the hardware has to be in the HCL, and since I did not originally intend to use it I never cross referrenced it, so chances are it wont work either. I may end up having to go back to virtualbox, but I find that setup is just so dirty because you need to keep all the VMs open in a VNC session or something. I want something that is more server oriented.
HCL gear is only if you want support - it runs on a great deal of non-hcl hardware.
 
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One thing that annoyed me when I tried xenserver awhile back. You have an NFS datastore with the name foo. Cool. And there are 4 VMs named Able, Baker, Charlie and Delta. Cool. Wait though. When you look at the NFS datastore from that server, you see a bunch of GUID names, both for the datastore and the VMs. So if your xenserver install gets roached, good f'ing luck figuring out what VM is what. Thanks, but no thanks...
Funny you mention that..it is annoying.
After the first time it happened to me, I label everything and make sure my schedule backups are running so restoring/recovering metadata is easy.

I forget about the ISO repository having to be in single folder.
That was annoying too.

One other annoyance that I was reminded of .. free XenServer gives you full features but you have to manually patch each host ...unless you are good at scripting.

Always have to make some sacrifice for "free".

I'm actually going to try and get back into ESXI again.
My XenServer lab will stay though.
 

Red Squirrel

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I might give in and just go vmware. Question though, if I eventually have two servers, can I share storage to both servers and start VMs on any server? Ex: can I shutdown or pause a VM, then go start it back up on another server? As far as my own purposes, this will work for me, if that can be done. Live migrations and stuff would be nice, but I'm willing to sacrifice that for something that is plug and play.

Though, is there a way to manage vmware from Linux? I hear they only make a Windows client. That will be a big problem if that's the case.
 

/usr/home

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I might give in and just go vmware. Question though, if I eventually have two servers, can I share storage to both servers and start VMs on any server? Ex: can I shutdown or pause a VM, then go start it back up on another server? As far as my own purposes, this will work for me, if that can be done. Live migrations and stuff would be nice, but I'm willing to sacrifice that for something that is plug and play.

Though, is there a way to manage vmware from Linux? I hear they only make a Windows client. That will be a big problem if that's the case.
You can't manage the free version via Linux. V Center can be controlled over HTTP though. (Not free)

http://store.vmware.com/store/vmware/en_US/pd/productID.282883900

$660 for 3 years is very reasonable.
 

/dev/null

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Actually, I already gave up on it. You can't even specify an ISO path, every single ISO has to be in a single folder. No thank you. The console is also flaky as hell... If the VM has a bigger resolution that your PC you can't even scroll so you can't access a huge chunk of the remote screen. Ex: can't even click next on the install "next" button in Linux.

Trying out Xen... but the client seems flaky too, whenever I add a storage repository it adds it twice. I really want to stick to open source but damn... it seems they're all so freaking flaky.
I use both daily & no such issues using them.
 

danswartz

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A bitch I had with proxmox was their hard-coding of subdirs for things like ISO, images, etc... You can't change them and they create the subdirs if they don't exist. Bletch.
 

free-sky

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If I was to move away from ESXi, I'd go full manual mode without the handholding tools, I think.

Configure networking with my own scripts. Run VMs with my own scripts. etc.
In case you still read this - there is a very good alternative to Proxmox & own scripts out there - so you won´t need a cumberstone windows client/admin VM or a full cloud setup: webvirtmgr.

You can even choose your favorite KVM distro and install that gui on top.

https://github.com/retspen/webvirtmgr
 

blazemonkey

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A bitch I had with proxmox was their hard-coding of subdirs for things like ISO, images, etc... You can't change them and they create the subdirs if they don't exist. Bletch.
I don't know why you guys are complaining about the folder for iso's and etc, I guess you just haven't looked hard enough for the option. Click on data center, click on storage, click on add, directory. Viola.

As for the poor console performance, I don't think they intended on people using it for day to day stuff. That's what RDP/VNC/etc is for. The web console is just there to get you on your feet.

Also, there are several solutions to remove the nag prompt, it is opensource after all...

I have to say that I've been using Proxmox for a few years now, and it's been working great for me. I've had one win 7 KVM, and a dozen vz containers, and not a single issue. I originally wanted to use esxi, then xen, but but due to the limited free versions, I settled on Proxmox. I don't find the web interface flaky at all. It's light, and very slick. What options don't exist there can easily be changed via SSH if you have any linux knowledge at all.
 
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danswartz

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You might want to work on your reading skills. I am well aware of how to add, say, a local directory which supports various items. Let's say 'Images' and 'ISO'. I just did so in a newly created proxmox VM (to confirm my memories of this.) And (just as I said in my post that you misread), I now have 2 folders: images and templates/iso. There is no way I know of to change this. I remember complaining about this on the proxmox forum and one of the devs replied that this was how it worked. Why this is annoying: if I have a couple of NFS shares, one containing VM files and one containing ISOs, I can't just mount them and use them, since the first will insist on a subdir named 'images' and the second will insist on a subdir named 'templates/iso'. Maybe it is possible to hack on stuff at the cli to get around this, but I don't see why I should have to...
 

SGalbincea

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The next version of ESXi should be manageable via any OS as all management is browser based.
 

Red Squirrel

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I don't know why you guys are complaining about the folder for iso's and etc, I guess you just haven't looked hard enough for the option. Click on data center, click on storage, click on add, directory. Viola.

As for the poor console performance, I don't think they intended on people using it for day to day stuff. That's what RDP/VNC/etc is for. The web console is just there to get you on your feet.

Also, there are several solutions to remove the nag prompt, it is opensource after all...

I have to say that I've been using Proxmox for a few years now, and it's been working great for me. I've had one win 7 KVM, and a dozen vz containers, and not a single issue. I originally wanted to use esxi, then xen, but but due to the limited free versions, I settled on Proxmox. I don't find the web interface flaky at all. It's light, and very slick. What options don't exist there can easily be changed via SSH if you have any linux knowledge at all.
It's still important that the console is 100% usable, nto all VMs are networked or accessible via the same network as other PCs. Ex: private test environments, or if you are repeatedly testing the install process of a custom distro, or other things that can't be done via RDP, VNC, SSH etc.

Also the biggest grippe with directories is it does not read subdirectories. I have all my ISOs organized in a large folder structure. I am not going to start adding every single folder, then have to add even more when I add more ISOs. This was probably the biggest turnoff of all that made me seek another solution.

I'm not that happy with ESXi though as managing it through Linux is a pain. I'm still torn about what I want to do. I already have a few production VMs on it now so it's hard to switch again. I jumped the gun too fast to start migrating stuff I think. Should have experimented a bit more.
 

danswartz

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If you run the linux-based virtual center server appliance, you can use browser management. Either reinstall the VCSA every 60 days (?) or pay $600 for the essentials license (I think?)
 

danswartz

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Or pay $100 for a win7 license and install a small VM to run the management program?
 

Red Squirrel

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I'm using a VM to manage it but still a royal pain in the ass. Half the time the RDP program wont connect (using KRDC, is there something better?) and when it does, half the time it seems to screw up and ctrl+alt wont give cursor back when I'm in a console. Overall this whole workaround stuff is a royal pain. I just wish they'd make a proper Linux client for ESX, and no I'm not paying $600 LOL.

KVM/Qemu is too incomplete and slow, proxmox does not support subdirs for ISOs, Xen is flaky (every time I would add a data store it would add it twice, and do other weird things)... it seems nobody can make a half decent free vm solution these days.
 
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danswartz

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Well, krdc is likely the offender - I run the thick vsphere client in win7 natively and have no issues... Have you considered running vcsa and reinstalling every 60 days? Only takes a few minutes...
 

PigLover

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I'm using a VM to manage it but still a royal pain in the ass. Half the time the RDP program wont connect (using KRDC, is there something better?) and when it does, half the time it seems to screw up and ctrl+alt wont give cursor back when I'm in a console. Overall this whole workaround stuff is a royal pain. I just wish they'd make a proper Linux client for ESX, and no I'm not paying $600 LOL.

KVM/Qemu is too incomplete and slow, proxmox does not support subdirs for ISOs, Xen is flaky (every time I would add a data store it would add it twice, and do other weird things)... it seems nobody can make a half decent free vm solution these days.
Have you given KVM a try with oVirt as a manager?
 
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