Project: Windows Homeless Server

[DOMINOZ]

SEEMS THAT THE IMAGE HOST TOOK A DUMP. I WILL GET THE IMAGES RE-UPPED AND RE-POSTED SOON


The Windows Homeless Server
So, I have been browsing/lurking here for sometime...fascinated by the work log threads. Anyway, after much envy and awe...I think people like Ockie and gjvrieze and w1retap have inspired and corrupted me enough to start my own lil log.

So, here is the gist...(do not read this part if you don't care WHY I am building the NEW server)

I have a ton of my Movies backed up onto Hard drives. I had started a kind of mini server...3 separate RAID cards with 4 drives each in RAID 5. All in a stacker...with a 610 Watt PCPower&Cooling PSU. This lil guy was running windows XP Pro and was running like a champ. So, I had 3 separate RAID 5 arrays...1.36TB each after format. And there was 250GB system drive as well. I had it set up to 'wake up' when a movie was called for from the HTPC and then it would 'Sleep' after a few minutes of inactivity...meaning when the movie was finished...the server went night night. I loved this config. but I was running out of space rather quickly. So, I am building a NEW server.

SPECS of new Server:

1x SUPERMICRO MBD-X7SBE LGA 775 Intel 3210 ATX Server Motherboard
1x Areca ARC-1170 PCI-X 64bit/133MHz SATA II Controller Card
16x Western Digital SE16 WD7500KSRTL 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
2x Seagate Barracuda ES ST3320620NS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
2x Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
2x PC Power & Cooling S75QB EPS12V 750W Power Supply
1x Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz
1x Windows Home Server OS

Hard drives

Hard drives 2

Ghetto Test Bed

Same Ghetto Test Bed

Server Naked In Office

Naked, In The Corner...On Timeout


OK, now I know some parts and components are not the ideal way to go but it is a mix of budget and time and availability constraints that I am dealing with. So this is what I had to work with, sorry...lol.

Now I have everything set up pretty much how I want it, except I was not aware that I cannot have this new server go to standby mode and wake up when needed as the old one did. I guess it is a limitation of the OS. Also, and I would appreciate any help from ya'll...I have since added two other drives to the array and another as a Hot Spare. They are the same make and model as the first 16 750GB drives and the Areca card recognized them right away. I was able to set one as Hot Spare easily but then when I used the Expand Array command with the other two drives...it seems to have some issues. It still says 9.54 TB total capacity for the array, even after the expansion finished. I am probably doing something wrong and I am sure it is something simple, but any help would be appreciated.

So, to the good part...

I am looking for a few suggestions on enclosing this thing. Maybe acrylic...plexi...metal...whatever is easiest and cheapest. I really do not care much how it looks...I mean if I could have brought home a shopping cart...I would have loved to house it in that!! I guess I am into function rather than form. I have all the drives in 4in3 bay converters by Coolermaster (the cheap ones). I have attached filters to all of the 'intake' fans on the bays so the hard drives should be relatively free from dust build up. I will be posting a few updated images as some things have changed a bit.

Anyway...short term goal is to have 23 (24)x 750GB drives in RAID 6 (with one being Hot Spare). I have enough bays for 32 drives though so I might get another RAID card and fill it up too. I should be able to add more bays as there is ample room on the second shelf, where the PSUs are now. I could get 48 drives hooked up to two separate RAID cards at some point. I had the 16 drives plus the two system drives and all other hardware running on a single 750watt PSU and it ran like a champ (love them PCPower&Cooling PSUs). So when I hooked up the next 3 drives, I also hooked up the second PSU so it will power whatever I add from here on out. The second PSU is routed through the first using the adapter cable that came with my original stacker case...I can try and get a pic of that later too.

K, enough from me for now...I will update with progress and some more pics soon.
Oh and another thing...I would switch out the OS for something more appropriate but can I do that even though the array is already built on the CARD? I mean, the OS drives are in RAID 1 but they are using the MOBO RAID...nothing to do with the array on the CARD. Would I be bale to just install WinXP Pro and the array would simply migrate over? I am open to suggestions. I do not currently have enough spare drives (they are all 500 GB drives from the old server and various other pcs).

I'll be back here with pics soon,
THANKS!
*C*

 

[DOMINOZ]

Sorry, these were left out...

Closer

Cables Somewhat Wrapped

Lian-Li MOBO Tray

Head On...Crooked Style

Second Brain

 

[Blue Fox]

I hope you fixed the drives to get rid of the TLER issue, as otherwise you may be running into quite a few problems if the drives start dropping out of the array. Did you manage to get a decent deal on the battery backup btw? (I'm in the market for the thing myself)

 

[DOMINOZ]

Hmm, have not had any TLER issues yet. I thought that was for GreenPower drives that were not RAID edition from Western Digital. My drives are not Green Power drives. I got the Battery backup in a combo deal at Newegg, I think the deal is still going but a lil more expensive now. Whole thing...Card plus Battery Backup was ... 910 for card plus 75 for the battery...985 total.

 

[Blue Fox]

Since you haven't purchased the RE drives, you will need to fix the TLER issue. If you don't and there is an error on the drive, it will most likely get dropped from the array...I wouldn't ignore the problem. Ockie built a 24 drive array out of them and switched to Seagate drives because of this very problem. Go check the storage subforum about it.

 

[DOMINOZ]

Hi again,

I checked that thread, I had seen it before. He has the Green Power drives, these will act differently compared to the Normal Drives. I believe the GP drives will almost power down and that is why the seem to Drop from the array.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up. I have had the drives hooked up and being watched for the past week and half...no TLER yet.

*C*

 

[colinstu]

Keep the pics coming

 

[ND40oz]

If you're running WHS, it's recommended not to put the disks in a hardware array, just leave them as jbod and let the OS do it for you. People have run it with hardware raid, but it's unsupported by microsoft but heck it's your system. I'd recommend turning off folder duplication if you do decide to run with a bunch of raid volumes.

 

[DOMINOZ]

Ugh, I knew WHS would be a headache...should have waited and trusted my gut. I really would like to stick with the raid card solution...it was a very expensive card and it does great things.

If anyone knows the answer on the OS switching without needed to re-do the RAID array on the card...I am all eyes.

Also...any reason that after an Expansion of the raid set with two new drives added, they do not add to the available space?

Thanks all.
*C*

 

[ND40oz]

That's one of the features of WHS, you add drives and it expands. You can't expand an existing logical drive though, which is why raid is not recommended.

If it's not the system drive, you may be able to uninstall the drive from the homeserver console and then reinstall the expanded drive.

 

[Blue Fox]

With the Areca cards, you can switch OSs without having to redo the array. I've done it a few times myself. You can easily expand drives within Windows too. I've done that twice as well...just make sure it's not your boot disk. Go to the command prompt and type 'diskpart' and you'll see that you can do it rather quickly. With a $1000 RAID card, the last thing I would do with it is run JBOD. The whole point of such a card is high performance and stability in RAID 5/6.

 

[DOMINOZ]

Hmm, good call ND40oz, I might try the uninstall. Also, I need the double redundancy of RAID six and the performance boost. I think WHS would just clone the drives or folders that I told it too. I think that would waste a lot of space. Course, I am always wrong...lol.


And thanks Blue...I will futz with the expansion area some more.
Thanks again,
Chastity

 

[ND40oz]

With the Areca cards, you can switch OSs without having to redo the array. I've done it a few times myself. You can easily expand drives within Windows too. I've done that twice as well...just make sure it's not your boot disk. Go to the command prompt and type 'diskpart' and you'll see that you can do it rather quickly. With a $1000 RAID card, the last thing I would do with it is run JBOD. The whole point of such a card is high performance and stability in RAID 5/6.

You can not expand a logical drive within windows home server storage. If you start messing around in disk management, you will severly f' up home server. It's disk management has to be done through the home server console.

 

[Blue Fox]

Oh...guess it's a lot easier in Server 2003 and XP.

 

[DOMINOZ]

Ok, so what I gather is that I should be able to install XP pro and then it should re-aquire the RAID from the RAID Card...hopefully. The OS will be installed on a different array...running off the MOBO in RAID 1 two disks. We shall see.

Thanks boys!
*C*

 

[Blue Fox]

The RAID array will easily be recognized if you switch operating systems. I went from XP to Server 2003 without issues.

 

[colinstu]

Get a real copy of Windows Server or just stick with XP pro.

I've heard nightmares with WHS mystically loosing harddrives and corrupting data. I like the idea of real raid vs WHS's fake raid. Better performance, makes more sense.

Not to offend but whs is for kiddies with a 320GB harddrive or two. With this much money dumped into it, expensive raid cards and big drives, you need a real OS.

I've used Server 2003 for Active Directory and Terminal Services and other little tasks for printing, but you can give it the File Server role. Win XP is the alternative, leave raid up to the card and XP to access the files and sharing, etc.

 

[ND40oz]

...

 

[colinstu]

I wouldn't say WHS is for kiddies, it's for people looking for something easy to setup, it can be managed by a web interface, it will automatically back up the machines on your network and restore them and it can be expanded relatively easily. You also don't need a bunch of hard drives that are the same size, you can mix and match as you expand your box.

Obviously if you would like to go to the trouble of running AD, DNS, Exchange and a bunch of other stuff at home, it's not for you. But some of us do that all day at work and when we come home, it's nice to have something that just works with little management.

Also, the whole corrupted data thing is only if your editing certain types files directly on the server, its not like one day you'll log in an entire folder will just be corrupted.

I was really excited when WHS came out, the nice web interface, the nice screens and all the little options... it all looked really neat. But once the guys at Redmond get the kinks out... I'm not going to waste my time.

I do not run AD, etc at home, I have in the past but I found it unnecessary. It's great at work though. Throwing in some drives, installing an OS and you can now access it over the internet sounds great, but I'd rather want the load of raid to be put on my expensive raid card, not the cpu.

 

[ND40oz]

...

 

[colinstu]

But why, is your CPU time being sucked up doing SQL queries? It's a file server, who cares that your CPU load is slightly higher. The point is you don't need to go out and buy raid cards, it's not for that, which is why it works as it does. If you want to use an expensive raid card with WHS, you certainly can, but you need to learn how the OS works before you attempt to do so. Honestly, do you really think WHS software raid is going to affect how fast you can stream your MP3s to your xbox?

So instead of coming in here and shitting on an OS that you obviously haven't used and referring to everyone that does use it as "kiddies," lets just stay on topic and help the OP either get it working or switch over to another OS that may be better suited for the hardware he has.

Still, if you invested in a raid card, either sell it and use WHS or sell the E6600 and get something that uses less power. WHS is the problem, it should take advantage of the card.

Heh, I use 2003 server everyday at work, I was suggesting 2003 because it comes with file server options, and I suggested XP too if he wanted something easier. That's called helping the OP, your little rave about that heh - nothing is the problem. WHS has problems, and he has hardware, he can run XP and have a fun day.

Now before you completely start flaming someone, how about you go read my posts a little more clearly. Jeez, if it's not something I hate more is people getting mad on forums.

 

[ND40oz]

Get a real copy of Windows Server or just stick with XP pro.

I've heard nightmares with WHS mystically loosing harddrives and corrupting data. I like the idea of real raid vs WHS's fake raid. Better performance, makes more sense.

Not to offend but whs is for kiddies with a 320GB harddrive or two. With this much money dumped into it, expensive raid cards and big drives, you need a real OS.

I've used Server 2003 for Active Directory and Terminal Services and other little tasks for printing, but you can give it the File Server role. Win XP is the alternative, leave raid up to the card and XP to access the files and sharing, etc.

Still, if you invested in a raid card, either sell it and use WHS or sell the E6600 and get something that uses less power. WHS is the problem, it should take advantage of the card.

Heh, I use 2003 server everyday at work, I was suggesting 2003 because it comes with file server options, and I suggested XP too if he wanted something easier. That's called helping the OP, your little rave about that heh - nothing is the problem. WHS has problems, and he has hardware, he can run XP and have a fun day.

Now before you completely start flaming someone, how about you go read my posts a little more clearly. Jeez, if it's not something I hate more is people getting mad on forums.

Reread your original post and please tell me how you were helping him get WHS working or transitioning his arrays over to 2003, which is what we were discussing. Seems pretty clear to me your talking about an OS you've never used and calling people that are using it "kiddies."

OP, PM me if you want any additional help with WHS, I don't want to keep junking up your work log.

 

[colinstu]

give it the File Server role. Win XP is the alternative, leave raid up to the card and XP to access the files and sharing, etc.

you were helping him get WHS working or transitioning his arrays over to 2003

Click Add server role, go through the wizard, figure it out... I don't see you coding for MS on fixing WHS... Hey, I even recommended XP!


God, you have nothing better to do then say I don't know what I'm talking about and the kiddies.

EDIT: I'd use XP and VNC for ease of use. Setup raid through the raid card, and use XP to share the drives on the network. Install VNC so I don't need to run down to my server from my living room.

 

[Blue Fox]

EDIT: I'd use XP and VNC for ease of use. Setup raid through the raid card, and use XP to share the drives on the network. Install VNC so I don't need to run down to my server from my living room.

Sounds exactly like what I do. I also hooked it up to the second input on my monitor so I can monitor stuff if I'm in the middle of a game for example.

 

[MrGuvernment]

raid 6 would give a performance decrease, at least in writes vs raid 5, i think it is by almost %30.....

 

[Blue Fox]

raid 6 would give a performance decrease, at least in writes vs raid 5, i think it is by almost %30.....

With a high end RAID card like that, performance is still incredibly high.

 

[DOMINOZ]

Hihi,

I am at work now...so I cannot post a few more pics.

Anyway, I reaaly appreciate all the good advice and even the bad advice...at least we are trying right??

I didn't want this to turn too ugly...lol...so I will just say that I know WHS has some cool features but I do feel now that I would be better served (hehee) with maybe XP instead. I cannot afford Server 2003 so I think I will use an XP pro OS that I can get from the old server. Just have to uninstall from the old and re-install to the new...maybe call Microsoft to verify the activation...so forth.

So, thanks guys for the effort...very much appreciated. And everyone keeps referring to me as 'him' or 'he', lol...I am a geek/nerd but I am also female! lol...GASP! Just wanted to clear that up...not sure why.

Now, I might have made all of this more complicated than needed. I am just needing to serve media to the HTPC and I need a TON of hard drive space to hold all of it. I had heard great things about the ARECA card and the battery backup feature came cheap...so I jumped, lol. I had a nice tax return cuz something was screwed up at work with my withholding levels so I had a chunk of money that I used for the Hard drives and hardware and such. I think am going to stick with the hardware I have, I really like it.

I guess I also need some more input/ideas on the enclosure for the Windows Homeless Server (hence the name). I am leaning toward Acrylic as there is a plastic shop here in San Diego that seems reasonable. Truth is I have never NEVER tried to get any raw materials and have anything made from it. I have an ex who has a good amount of saws and tools in his shop and he thinks we could cut the Acrylic no sweat and drill fan holes and such without issue. He could be blowing smoke though...lol...any excuse to see what I am up to.

Um, I will have quite a few more pics this evening...I have managed to take apart 2 Antec 900 cases that I wasn't using and I love those BIG BOY fans, lol. I was thinking of just enclosing the TOP shelf...where the MOBO resides but that seems a little too ghetto, even for this project.

I was messing with google sketchup and I have some ideas floating around...I will see if there is a way to share the sketchup drawing on here.

Anyway, talk soon,
Chastity

 

[DOMINOZ]

Oh, and about the performace...

I am not using any cool tools to bench the Hard drives but I will share what I have noticed so far. Normally when I would transfer a file from one PC to another...all on a Gigabit LAN...I would typically get between 18 and 22 percent of the network pipe being used...so I guess about 180 to 220 Mb/s. Now, when transferring from any PC to the new server I get from 30 to 50 percent usage....so maybe 300 to 500 Mb/s. I am probably (likely) not using the best method to monitor performance...so I will try and do some digging and get HDtach or something similar.

 

[MrGuvernment]

With a high end RAID card like that, performance is still incredibly high.

for sure, why i envy this bugger...lol

we have an Adaptec 2420SA with 256mb in one system with raid 6, but the performance is just awful! for writes, i get better speed extracting multiple archive file to a single Segate 500G ES drive then i do 4x 500G segate drives in raid 6 on this thing.


i think Arcrylic may be the easiest to work with, in terms of cutting, attaching and need for tools.... but you may want to consider something more solid for holding all the harddrives...

perhaps some aluminum frame... lime 1' swquare bar as a frame for most, and then the body / panels in arcrylic?

 

[DOMINOZ]

Hi Mr(EVIL)Guv...

I have the frame already set...see the Wire Shelves in the pics? I will use that as the frame. I just need to get the acrylic cut and sized around whatever parts I want to cover. Also I have to have access to the MOBO and connectors just in cases. Maybe I can work some kind of hinge assembly and have a door that is airtight but opens easily for maintenance.

I will post a few more pics tonight I think...along with a Sketchup pic...showing what I have in mind.

Thanks again for all the input!!

*C*

 

[DOMINOZ]

Somehow Double Posted

 

[Ockie]

What is your budget for a new case?

 

[DOMINOZ]

Hmm, had not really thought of a whole new case...

I have not set aside any money for a case or anything really...just if one came to mind that I wanted, I would make money for it...lol.

I guess 400 bucks is too much for the case...does that narrow it down? I assume you have access to a case that you might be willing to part with Ockie? If that is the 'case' I might just buy it so I can be able to finally say I BOUGHT *insert random PC part* FROM OCKIE!!! Hehee, I am a big fan of your threads...that's all.

*C*

 

[DOMINOZ]

Hi again, here are some more pics and I will try and incluse the Google Sketchup pic as well...

Server w/ both PSUs hooked up and 19 (18 in array) Harddrives...plus 2 more System drives up top.

UPS...just love them LCDs. Will be hooked through USB I guess.

Parts and Parts

These two 200mm Big Boy fans will act as export fans on the Top.

140mm fans with filters attached will act as intake fans.

Probably have at least three of these blowing directly onto the MOBO...with filters.

The Big Boy and panel assembly will be attached to the TOP side of the MOBO enclosure...I will use the USB and Power/Reset switches from there.

So there are some pics fer ya. I will up the Sketchup pic too...soon.

 

[Dave159]

looks pretty sweet

 

[colinstu]

Keep 'em pics coming!

 

[DOMINOZ]

Here is what I am thinking of...

I will elaborate sometime soon...lol.

Chastity

Sketchup file linked...
LINK...Google Sketchup File

 

[DOMINOZ]

Quick update but just SketchUp images...

This should give an idea of the design...not too complex.

CLICK THUMBS TO ENLARGE




Looks like I would only really need to enclose the MOBO tray on three large sides and then a smaller side toward the front of the MOBO.

All of the fans are adjustable so I can have the right amount of intake and export.

I was thinking I could just leave the Drive bays out in the open on the shelves...they have 120mm fans with filters as intakes. I really do not see much benefit to enclosing the bays behind acrylic or anything.

 

[MrGuvernment]

just so i wouldnt have to look at all the wires, so clear, maybe use a tinted black arcrylic? or something solid over some parts but some parts you can see into...

as for the bottom HD rack, thought maybe of doing a push / pull, one side sucks in air the other side sucks it out... and the encluse that area nicely, instead of blowing all hot air into the middle off the HD's...

 

[DOMINOZ]

Yeah, I was thinking of getting some kinda smoked acrylic for the top.

I also like the push/pull idea...I would then have to enclose the shelves though. not the end of the world but I will have to think on it. Anyone know a good/quick/easy/safe/cheap way to do a 'smoke test' to visualize the airflow?

And thanks again for the input.
*C*