President-Elect Urged To Train 100,000 Hackers

Megalith

Megalith

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With computer hacking being more common and dangerous than ever, the incoming administration is being advised to create a "national cybersecurity workforce program" that would deliver computer scientists and other specialists to defend against such attacks. Some experts are urging government intervention in matters such as consumer devices, many of which are insecure and would require legal ramifications for manufacturers to take action.

Train 100,000 cybersecurity specialists by 2020. This is a huge number that some cybersecurity experts think is unrealistic. There's currently a severe shortage of computer scientists who know how to hack -- and to defend from hackers. As a result, salaries are skyrocketing, making it even harder for the government to hire cybersecurity experts. In fact, lots of the talented hackers at the FBI and NSA are leaving for the private sector. It's something FBI Director James Comey has voiced concern about. Security specialists tell CNNMoney they're worried that rushing to flood the job market would merely result in lower quality, less talented workers -- not the elite cybersecurity experts the country needs.
 
Well.. shitt.. if the government wants to hire and train me to become a cyber-security specialist and promise me 100k salary while paying me for training, Im on board. lol
 
kandrey89 said:
It takes 10 years to train a hacker worth 100K+, training 100K people in just 3 years (at best if they start right away, unlikely), you'll get GeekSquad equivalent quality of hackers not worth a penny, it'll be a joke.
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Hackers are not trained, but chosen. Individuals forged in the fire of service and the darknet, those whose actions elevate them above the rank and file.
 
Hacking has everything to do with quality, and nothing to do with quantity. They should focus on recruiting those with real talent, and not throw some arbitrary number of how many should be on the payroll.
 
sir-gold said:
It also doesn't help that the government requires these hackers to have a clean criminal history, which excludes many of the best hackers.
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On the surface. I'm sure our government shakes hands with the less than clean criminal background to do work. Working in the private sector vs Government is a no brainer. Less Red Tape, Higher Pay, More Freedom. Hacking for the government sort of goes against the grain of the hacking attitude. Afterall, hacking is basically not seen as a good thing. Even if you go ahead and say "White Hat".

Hacking is an artform. I wished I had really gotten deeper into penetration testing and the such while in college and my former years. I'd probably be a lot better off financially!
 
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Do you really need sheer quantity over quality? 100K seems far too large.
 
Definitely a weird headline, but they're probably underestimating the number of talented system engineers and programmers who are doing anything but netsec at the moment and bored out of their skull.
 
The real joke is that they say the hackers are for national defense. What they don't tell you is they're defending against the populous.
 
sir-gold said:
It also doesn't help that the government requires these hackers to have a clean criminal history, which excludes many of the best hackers.
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It gets worse.

I've looked into going into "Network Defense" for the Air Force, it seems like a never ending horror story. They prefer "clean slates" that can pretend they don't know anything while they're trained. And some of the discussions I've had with people about it range from being pissed they're expected to learn a few languages because "'they' should just give you the programs that you need" to pure offence that they had to take another specialized test (that they failed because they didn't know anything about computers) straight from one of the guy's that decides if you get in our not because "I passed the one from the Air Force, so that's not fair that I don't know anything about computers, that's what Tech School is for!". We're also still using SHA-1 so Chrome throws a complete bitch-fit for those of us that are lucky enough to not have to deal with an outdated version of IE. Never mind the fact that every time my computer tries to update, there's a conflict with the group policies somewhere so everything goes bonkers. So far, the only thing I've seen from the Network Defense folks is an email trying to convince us to click a link called "virusdownload".

Combined with the fact that their pay scale/requirements follows every other career, you're literally making the same amount of money as the dude standing at the gate checking ID's or the poor sap that drives a street sweeper when he's not checking tire pressure or the chick that's in charge of putting things in a paper shredder. It's no wonder the government outsources all this shit to companies that'll pay employees what they're worth, after all, who wants to make $45k a year when you can make $80k...
 
Extra-Titanian said:
It gets worse.

I've looked into going into "Network Defense" for the Air Force, it seems like a never ending horror story. They prefer "clean slates" that can pretend they don't know anything while they're trained. And some of the discussions I've had with people about it range from being pissed they're expected to learn a few languages because "'they' should just give you the programs that you need" to pure offence that they had to take another specialized test (that they failed because they didn't know anything about computers) straight from one of the guy's that decides if you get in our not because "I passed the one from the Air Force, so that's not fair that I don't know anything about computers, that's what Tech School is for!". We're also still using SHA-1 so Chrome throws a complete bitch-fit for those of us that are lucky enough to not have to deal with an outdated version of IE. Never mind the fact that every time my computer tries to update, there's a conflict with the group policies somewhere so everything goes bonkers. So far, the only thing I've seen from the Network Defense folks is an email trying to convince us to click a link called "virusdownload".

Combined with the fact that their pay scale/requirements follows every other career, you're literally making the same amount of money as the dude standing at the gate checking ID's or the poor sap that drives a street sweeper when he's not checking tire pressure or the chick that's in charge of putting things in a paper shredder. It's no wonder the government outsources all this shit to companies that'll pay employees what they're worth, after all, who wants to make $45k a year when you can make $80k...
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Looks like someone hasn't really even looked into the USAF or is listening to people who don't know what they are talking about and are just making it up. Cyber Warfare Operations is hardly hard to get into. You take the EDPT and get at least 60 score. The test is about your logic and math skills. None of it is computer related. Once you get that, you can become a 1B4x1 Cyber Warfare Operations Apprentice and you go through the 16 month tech school. Right now, they are low manned and are looking for people to go into it. Maybe you should stop listening to people who don't know and instead go talk with a recruiter if you're actually serious about it.

If you don't want to take the weird EDPT test, then don't. You can become a 3D0X3 Cyber Surety. That is network defense and only requires the ASVAB.
Cyber Surety personnel supervise or operate fixed and deployed information technology (IT) resources to monitor, evaluate and maintain systems, policy, and procedures to protect clients, networks, data/voice systems and databases from unauthorized activity. They identify potential threats and manage resolution of security violations.
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Your pay will be crap, cause guess what? Most joining the military don't know anything and get the training needed to make $80k in the future. Those who decided to go into a computer field will probably get that on the outside, depending on their computer field choice and their skills, while those who opted to be the person checking IDs won't be. I was in the military as a 3C0X1 Computer Systems Operations Craftsman. That career field ended up getting segregated down into 4 different jobs. I became 3D0X2 Cyber System Operations Craftsman. I only have a HS diploma, the AF tech school, and a Sec+ cert. I made $80k as soon as I got out the USAF. I'm nearing $100k now. I know others who were in the same job. They're lucky to make $40k at all, cause they didn't actually try to learn their jobs and pissed away the opportunity.

If you're already an IT professional, than going into the military into an IT field makes no sense at all. The only reason I'd see someone doing that is to get a security clearance or they're just super patriotic. Even the security clearance can be had by just applying to different contracting companies. Eventually you'll run into one that's willing to get you a security clearance.
 
sir-gold said:
It also doesn't help that the government requires these hackers to have a clean criminal history, which excludes many of the best hackers.
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I'm baffled how nobody noticed that I lifted that line from Mass Effect directly. Only replaced 2 words.
 
Let's be clear about this. This isn't hiring 100,000 hackers, this is hiring 100,000 more Cybersecurity specialists, which is a pretty generic catchall for the government. Also Cyber Defense has very little to do with hacking and more to do with learning how to patch holes and restrict access. Offense and Defense are two completely different skillsets. Most that grow up learning one side are generally not well suited to do the other, it takes quite a bit of retraining.

In the government all kinds of things are labeled Cybersecurity, even paper and policy pushing. So you have people that know literally nothing about specific attack or defense vectors, but do know all the "policies" that are in place and then try to make sure programs follow those "policies", and they also are called Cybersecurity specialists.

There really isn't a good way to train a hacker, it takes experience and experimentation. You can train someone to be a cracker, or a script kiddy, or how to do DoS and botnets, but not really how to learn how to hack.
 
krotch said:
Looks like someone hasn't really even looked into the USAF or is listening to people who don't know what they are talking about and are just making it up. Cyber Warfare Operations is hardly hard to get into. You take the EDPT and get at least 60 score. The test is about your logic and math skills. None of it is computer related. Once you get that, you can become a 1B4x1 Cyber Warfare Operations Apprentice and you go through the 16 month tech school. Right now, they are low manned and are looking for people to go into it. Maybe you should stop listening to people who don't know and instead go talk with a recruiter if you're actually serious about it.

If you don't want to take the weird EDPT test, then don't. You can become a 3D0X3 Cyber Surety. That is network defense and only requires the ASVAB.

Your pay will be crap, cause guess what? Most joining the military don't know anything and get the training needed to make $80k in the future. Those who decided to go into a computer field will probably get that on the outside, depending on their computer field choice and their skills, while those who opted to be the person checking IDs won't be. I was in the military as a 3C0X1 Computer Systems Operations Craftsman. That career field ended up getting segregated down into 4 different jobs. I became 3D0X2 Cyber System Operations Craftsman. I only have a HS diploma, the AF tech school, and a Sec+ cert. I made $80k as soon as I got out the USAF. I'm nearing $100k now. I know others who were in the same job. They're lucky to make $40k at all, cause they didn't actually try to learn their jobs and pissed away the opportunity.

If you're already an IT professional, than going into the military into an IT field makes no sense at all. The only reason I'd see someone doing that is to get a security clearance or they're just super patriotic. Even the security clearance can be had by just applying to different contracting companies. Eventually you'll run into one that's willing to get you a security clearance.
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Uh, swing and a miss little buddy. Not only have I been in the Air Force for the better part of a decade, but I've spent most of it working with the 3DXXX family. The only thing funnier than you telling me to "stop listening to people who don't know" which is laughable because it all literally came from people who either tried to go 1B4, or actually made it, is telling me to go talk to a recruiter which is probably slightly more reliable than asking a question on Yahoo! Answers.

Sadly, you seem to also have completely missed the point behind the paycheck comments. They want more cyber capabilities, but they don't want to change the pay structure to attract and retain people with the necessary skills, the best they can do is offer a relatively small bonus. You're the perfect example. You were in a relevant career field, and got out for more money. Why stick around when you can go make 2x somewhere else? That's why we're stuck with a bunch of lamer's taking care of our systems.
 
Extra-Titanian said:
Uh, swing and a miss little buddy. Not only have I been in the Air Force for the better part of a decade, but I've spent most of it working with the 3DXXX family. The only thing funnier than you telling me to "stop listening to people who don't know" which is laughable because it all literally came from people who either tried to go 1B4, or actually made it, is telling me to go talk to a recruiter which is probably slightly more reliable than asking a question on Yahoo! Answers.
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Yes and I knew ppl who were programmers who took the EDPT. A job that requires a higher EDPT score than 1B4. I also know ppl who are 1B4s. The test doesn't involve any computer knowledge. Outside of that, after becoming 1B4, you'll need IAT Level 2. Which you just get a CASP cert to meet that. 2 days of studying a brain dump and you can get that. AF will pay for that test too.

Sadly, you seem to also have completely missed the point behind the paycheck comments. They want more cyber capabilities, but they don't want to change the pay structure to attract and retain people with the necessary skills, the best they can do is offer a relatively small bonus. You're the perfect example. You were in a relevant career field, and got out for more money. Why stick around when you can go make 2x somewhere else? That's why we're stuck with a bunch of lamer's taking care of our systems.
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I didn't get out to make more money. I got out cause I didn't want to babysit anymore. If they told me, you can still get promoted and you don't have to supervise, I'd still be in. 2x money is fine and all, but a forever paycheck after retirement is way better. I also like moving around overseas. Why I'm in Germany and looking for jobs in the Pacific.

The AF doesn't need to change pay structure (not like they can anyways, as it's a military pay structure), but they should add Warrant Officer ranks for those who aren't looking to become management. That doesn't even require them to get approval, as they are already approved to have warrant officers by law, they just simply stopped using those ranks. They just have to properly define what a warrant officer is.

My last assignment was in S.Korea. Where I was doing EPRs, going to stupid meetings, babysitting drunk Airman, or in front of the Commander cause a drunk Airman did something stupid. Ya...tell me I didn't have to do any of that anymore and I would have signed on for 8 more years for retirement.
 
krotch said:
Yes and I knew ppl who were programmers who took the EDPT. A job that requires a higher EDPT score than 1B4. I also know ppl who are 1B4s. The test doesn't involve any computer knowledge. Outside of that, after becoming 1B4, you'll need IAT Level 2. Which you just get a CASP cert to meet that. 2 days of studying a brain dump and you can get that. AF will pay for that test too.



I didn't get out to make more money. I got out cause I didn't want to babysit anymore. If they told me, you can still get promoted and you don't have to supervise, I'd still be in. 2x money is fine and all, but a forever paycheck after retirement is way better. I also like moving around overseas. Why I'm in Germany and looking for jobs in the Pacific.

The AF doesn't need to change pay structure (not like they can anyways, as it's a military pay structure), but they should add Warrant Officer ranks for those who aren't looking to become management. That doesn't even require them to get approval, as they are already approved to have warrant officers by law, they just simply stopped using those ranks. They just have to properly define what a warrant officer is.

My last assignment was in S.Korea. Where I was doing EPRs, going to stupid meetings, babysitting drunk Airman, or in front of the Commander cause a drunk Airman did something stupid. Ya...tell me I didn't have to do any of that anymore and I would have signed on for 8 more years for retirement.
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She took the EDPT, passed it, applied to retrain and the CFM sent her a "test" that he'd made in Word or some shit and said he wouldn't approve it until she sent it back to him. That's the one she failed because she couldn't work Google.

Definitely agree with you on the supervising shit. We had a 3D0 in one of my old squadrons at who had a habit of getting drunk and disappearing over the weekend, only to be found Sunday sleeping under stairs with homeless people and shit. I felt bad for his supervisor. It's madness that in specialized career fields, they take the best technicians from actually working on something relevant, and put them where their talent is wasted.
 
Protip: the best hackers in the world would never work for any government agency regardless of the income offered. They might be enticed to do some tasks on the condition they be allowed to actually live, sure, but they wouldn't do it for the money.

The people that actually truly know what they're doing don't work for other people, least not those that I've encountered in my 4+ decades of dealing with computers on a near-daily basis in all the usual circles, they either do it for fun or whatever other reasons and yes sometimes it's money but that's hardly ever a driving force as crazy as that might sound.

As for the criminal record thing, the best of the best don't have such records because they keep them clean and I'll let you figure out what that means. ;)
 
Extra-Titanian said:
She took the EDPT, passed it, applied to retrain and the CFM sent her a "test" that he'd made in Word or some shit and said he wouldn't approve it until she sent it back to him. That's the one she failed because she couldn't work Google.
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That sounds like a douchebag CFM. Something like that shouldn't have happened, as well...CFM shouldn't have any say in it at all, aside from passing the info along. Probably could have gone above his ass if she wanted to or wait to PCS and get a new one. I think the 1B4 is probably still only half manned and hurting for people, so wouldn't be a problem going. Unless of course, they're in some other critically manned career field.

Definitely agree with you on the supervising shit. We had a 3D0 in one of my old squadrons at who had a habit of getting drunk and disappearing over the weekend, only to be found Sunday sleeping under stairs with homeless people and shit. I felt bad for his supervisor. It's madness that in specialized career fields, they take the best technicians from actually working on something relevant, and put them where their talent is wasted.
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S.Korea was one of the worst places for being a supervisor when it was an unaccompanied tour. Essentially all ranks out there getting blitzed and doing stupid shit. Breaking curfew, adultery, fighting, etc. Luckily, no one had a car or driver's license out there, so at least we didn't have DUIs. But the guy you had disappearing on a weekend, well I had that kind of troop, but it wasn't only on weekends. It was during weekdays too. Spent half my time having to hunt his ass down cause he wouldn't show to work.

Finally got him out of my office and somewhere else working midshift to keep his ass out of trouble and also make it so I was no longer his supervisor.
 
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