Pondering new build

[quadnad]

Hi All

The current main rig in my sig is getting a bit long in the tooth with newer titles like The Witcher 2 beginning to strain things. It's "about that time" for a new build, but since I've had so little time to keep up with things I'd like to get some feedback/thoughts on my current parts list.

1) What will you be doing with this PC?
The most strenuous activities will be gaming and folding.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Around $2000 is my max, but it would be great to keep that number closer to $1500. Given I'd like to include the Vertex 3 in my build, I know the budget will be less flexible than I might prefer

3) Where do you live?
New Canaan, CT

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?
Case, motherboard, cpu, cooler, RAM, GPU, SSD, DVDR.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
I am taking the PSU from my current rig, which is a Corsair HX620, speakers, keyboard/mouse, and the 500GB Seagate. I believe the PSU should handle what I'm looking for, but am happy to "step it up" should it not be capable. I will be selling the remaining parts, including the watercooling (despite how faultless it has been, I don't have the time to bother with the occasional maintenance and it has made getting around inside the P182 more difficult than I would like).

6) Will you be overclocking?
Yes - not necessarily to the bleeding edge, because I am looking for bulletproof reliability regardless of weather. Despite having air conditioning, I'm not really interested in air cooling (my first watercooling setup has obviously hooked me )

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
I currently have the 20WMGX2 (20in 1680x1050) - I will use that in the interim while I search for a comparable 24in. I welcome suggestions on what panels to check out too, but it does not need to fit into the budget right now.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Likely within the next month or two.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.
USB 3.0, SATA 6GB/S, onboard video out given sandy bridge (HDMI, ideally). Otherwise I'm really just looking for a fast, stable, reliable board.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Yes, a friend is providing a legitimate 7 64bit key.

With all that said, here's my current parts list (prices pulled from Newegg, ideally I don't want to run around 12 sites to pull parts):
Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 650D - $199
CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K - $314
Mobo: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA 1155 - $209
Vid Card: EVGA GTX 580 - $469 (I know this is a bit overkill for my current monitor, but I'd prefer this machine to have a longer cadence and am anticipating a 24in 19x12 monitor)
HD: OCZ Vertex 3 - $499 (I can't imagine starting a new build without a sizable SSD)
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 - $89
DVDR: ASUS DRW-24B1ST - $20.99
Cooler: Corsair H60 - $69.98 (shame to give up the custom setup, but this will be much easier to implement)

Grand total currently is $1,875.91. I'm not looking to squeeze every last cent out of the budget to compromise parts - unfortunately as you get older you realize you'd rather pay a few more dollars and not have to worry about things

I welcome any thoughts or feedback - thanks for your time!

 

[quadnad]

bump - any feedback on my part choices?

 

[tiraides]

I don't have time to offer many links or suggestions, but briefly:

- You don't need the i7-2600K for gaming. Stick with the i5-2500K.

- The GTX 580 is overkill for most people; 1GB HD 6950 will be enough for many games. Consider the 2GB HD 6970 instead.

- You don't need DDR3 1600 RAM for overclocking as you'll be using the processor's unlocked CPU multiplier. Stick with DDR3 1333 RAM.

- Though the Vertex 3 is reportedly better than other SATA 6Gb/s SSDs, OCZ has a history of issues that make be very reluctant to recommend them. I recommend that you consider either the Intel 510 or the Crucial C300/m4 instead. (What size SSD are you getting?)

- How old is the HX620? Since you're spending a lot already for new parts, I also suggest that you go with a new PSU just to be on the safe side.

 

[quadnad]

I don't have time to offer many links or suggestions, but briefly:

- You don't need the i7-2600K for gaming. Stick with the i5-2500K.

- The GTX 580 is overkill for most people; 1GB HD 6950 will be enough for many games. Consider the 2GB HD 6970 instead.

- You don't need DDR3 1600 RAM for overclocking as you'll be using the processor's unlocked CPU multiplier. Stick with DDR3 1333 RAM.

- Though the Vertex 3 is reportedly better than other SATA 6Gb/s SSDs, OCZ has a history of issues that make be very reluctant to recommend them. I recommend that you consider either the Intel 510 or the Crucial C300/m4 instead. (What size SSD are you getting?)

- How old is the HX620? Since you're spending a lot already for new parts, I also suggest that you go with a new PSU just to be on the safe side.

Thanks for the feedback - good points on the CPU and RAM. I'm still kinda erring towards the GTX 580 just because my ultimate intention is to replace my monitor with something larger, and handling 1080p+ with everything cranked is going to take some power. Particularly as I likely won't be upgrading this in any huge way for probably two years.

On the Vertex 3, I know they had issues with the early controllers in the early Vertex and Agility etc. products, but I was under the impression that these issues had been worked out with the new Sandforce revision. I'd be getting the 240GB. It shows extremely well in reviews compared to the other new SSDs, but I'm sure in real world use (I'm not regularly doing massive file transfers) the difference is less noticeable. I'd like to go with something that has solid reliability, but I keep reading about how the MTBF (which is quoted at about 2m hours for most of the high end consumer SSDs) figure is easy to manipulate and in reality doesn't tell you much. Is there anything out there that discusses reliability between SSDs?

My HX 620 was bought somewhere in the beginning/middle of 2008, when I originally started the main machine in my sig. I originally had the HX650 in the build order, but removed it when I realized the 620 would likely be enough. Not sure now whether I should add it back in...

 

[Dangman]

Ok, when exactly are you planning on upgrading your monitor to a 24"? If it's not within two months, it's not worth getting a GTX 580. Hell even if you wanted overkill, there's a lot more cost-effective ways for overkill: GTX 560 SLI, GTX 570 SLI, HD 6950 1GB CF, HD 6950 2GB CF, HD 6970 2GB CF, etc. Any of those options would be a better bang for the buck option than the GTX 580. Even if you had to get a new PSU for some of those options.

 

[quadnad]

Ok, when exactly are you planning on upgrading your monitor to a 24"? If it's not within two months, it's not worth getting a GTX 580. Hell even if you wanted overkill, there's a lot more cost-effective ways for overkill: GTX 560 SLI, GTX 570 SLI, HD 6950 1GB CF, HD 6950 2GB CF, HD 6970 2GB CF, etc. Any of those options would be a better bang for the buck option than the GTX 580. Even if you had to get a new PSU for some of those options.

Thanks for the feedback! I anticipate the upgrade within the next month or so, after I've got the build assembled and running.

My only hesitation with multi-card setups is the reliance on drivers functioning - I can't count the number of times I've seen games release and then dozens of posts saying that SLI/CF won't work (and them needing to wait for NVIDIA or ATI to release a new driver).

I'll take a look though to see what kinds of costs I'd be incurring.

 

[msny]

These guys gave me really good suggestions on a kick ass
gaming/video system, see sig.

I was a nVidia user for about 6 years, and before that ATI/AMD, but
now back to AMD.

I would suggest these for gaming, now from personal experience.

Asus VE248H Black 24"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236102

XFX HD-697A-CNFC Radeon HD 6970 2GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150517

With the difference in price on that nVidia GYX580 card, your half way to a new monitor
thats matches up well to the video.

 

[quadnad]

Thanks MSNY - I'm ideally looking for an IPS panel though. It's been difficult to find a glossy IPS at that size to replace the 20WMGX2

It's nearly time for me to start finalizing the build, so I'm going to need to make some hard choices.

 

[Lycidas]

I've heard that glossy monitors can be kind of annoying. I bought a Dell U2311 which works amazingly. The stand is incredi-versatile and the monitor itself performs very well. It's just a recommendation though and the 2311 is only a 23", not a 24". It also depends if you'll be playing any FPS games competitively online. That's where monitor selection really comes into play quite heavily.

Other than that advice, +1 to Danny Bui's advice.

 

[Dangman]

Thanks MSNY - I'm ideally looking for an IPS panel though. It's been difficult to find a glossy IPS at that size to replace the 20WMGX2

It's nearly time for me to start finalizing the build, so I'm going to need to make some hard choices.

Post a final build list before you buy for that last minute extra set of eyes help

 

[quadnad]

Post a final build list before you buy for that last minute extra set of eyes help

Great idea - while I have it, would the HX650 be a suitable option if I did want to go the new PSU route? The modular cabling on my current 620 helped a great deal in terms of cable management, it would be nice to maintain that feature.

 

[Dangman]

Great idea - while I have it, would the HX650 be a suitable option if I did want to go the new PSU route? The modular cabling on my current 620 helped a great deal in terms of cable management, it would be nice to maintain that feature.

It's a good option. It's basically a slightly updated and larger version of the 620HX you have now.

 

[quadnad]

I hate to be a pain in the balls, but I'm not sure I'll be changing much from the original build order - I think all this feedback has been great to reinforce my initial thoughts on part selection APART from the SSD. I'm a little concerned now.

In terms of RAM, it's only a few more dollars for the higher clocks - from what I understand, I should be able to run at DDR3 1600 without worrying about an overclock (like we used to). Not that the extra memory bandwidth is going to knock my socks off, but you never know how your preferences may change in terms of how you use the machine.

The videocard is definitely overkill, but that won't be the case when I finally find a new monitor. Given what a PITA crossfire and SLI can be, I think I'm going to stick with the fastest single card (single GPU) I can get.

After reading as many reviews as I can, the Vertex 3 seems to consistently beat its competition, though the Intel drive can be reasonably close in most tests. I'm a bit concerned about the reliability of the Vertex 3 drive, despite not finding much online about that specific line failing. If I do want to switch to the Intel drive, it'll cost me ~$100 more for less performance (this Anandtech review isn't exactly glowing)... It's difficult to weigh the intangible idea of reliability (you're paying a premium to avoid left tail risk, but it's not quantifiable how much hedge that premium is buying), particularly as I can't find anything questioning the reliability of the Vertex. I'm going back and forth in my mind on this: on one hand I definitely need a reliable drive, but I also don't need a slow SSD (the OCZ also held up really well in terms of performance with and without TRIM), particularly given the increase in price. Whaddya think!?

 

[tiraides]

It's really pointless for us to keep offering recommendations if you keep reverting back to your old choices. But since you asked nicely....

There is ZERO need for DDR3 1600 RAM. Many people have obtained overclocking speeds of 4GHz and beyond using DDR3 1333.

What are you currently using for a video card and storage device? The parts that we are recommending, though not the "best of the best" in hardware reviews, are much better than what you have now.

Simply put, there are very few games right now that make the GTX 580 a "must have" over the HD 6970. I don't believe that you need to spend the money on a 10% (at best) performance boost that you may or may not see.

Since you seem to be cool on OCZ's reliability and Intel's overall performance, I have one recommendation for you: the Crucial m4. Regardless of which one you choose, a good SATA 6Gb/s SSD will outperform the best SATA 6Gb/s HDD available.

 

[quadnad]

haha yeah, I'm not trying to be a PITA but I try to put as much thought as I can into my builds before I ask for feedback. I'm hard-nosed, I like data, and I tend to do my research. Not a novice either, been building for at least 15 years and following the space since I was old enough to read (having said that I'm only 25).

About the RAM, it's a whopping few bucks difference, so I'd really rather just opt up to get a bit more memory bandwidth. Who knows, maybe if I start compressing lots of video I'll be thankful.

Regarding the GTX 580, I'm not just buying for right now, I'm also buying for the future. I know 'future-proof' doesn't exist in the PC world, but given how little time I have nowadays I prefer to spend more initially and eek a bit more time out of my machine vs upgrade more frequently. While that 10% might not mean much now, it can be the difference between playable and not in 12 months time. If I were ten years younger I might give a different answer, but now budget is much less of a concern. I do have a bit of a bias toward the green side, if I'm honest - I have noticed over time that ATi drivers tend to have more issues with new software releases. Maybe that's in my head.

I definitely agree about SSDs being better than what I have now, but that doesn't change the fact that I'd be paying $600 for an SSD that has "middling" performance compared to others in the same range. With cars you have more tangible idea of reliability - if I buy a Honda or Toyota I can see tons of numbers showing how many problems they have on average per car. There doesn't appear to be any hard data whatsoever on these new drives, and given that it's new hardware there is no reason to think the future looks different than the past. The M4 seems to do about the same as the Intel 510, though Anand yet again wasn't too thrilled. It's obnoxious that the single most expensive part in the machine isn't a clear choice....

EDIT: I forgot to say thanks guys for your help! It's really great to be able to bounce ideas around, for a sanity check if nothing else.

EDIT 2: For some reason I just realized that the Intel drive isn't using their own controller for the 510 - that (subjectively) makes me feel a bit less warm/fuzzy about their previous reliability advantage. Like elsewhere in life past performance doesn't guarantee future performance, but you'd feel a bit more confident about the trend staying the same if the constituents stayed the same from generation to generation.

 

[quadnad]

Despite the semi-shit performance of the Intel 510 in random read/write, I think I might end up going that route. the Crucial M4 appears to have issues with performance degradation over time, while the Vertex 3 apparently has significant firmware related issues. While the lower performance and higher cost is a major pain in the ass, I can't be gaming firmware or dealing with significant performance issues over time. Reliability, for better or worse, is king.

 

[Dangman]

Regarding the GTX 580, I'm not just buying for right now, I'm also buying for the future. I know 'future-proof' doesn't exist in the PC world, but given how little time I have nowadays I prefer to spend more initially and eek a bit more time out of my machine vs upgrade more frequently. While that 10% might not mean much now, it can be the difference between playable and not in 12 months time. If I were ten years younger I might give a different answer, but now budget is much less of a concern. I do have a bit of a bias toward the green side, if I'm honest - I have noticed over time that ATi drivers tend to have more issues with new software releases. Maybe that's in my head.

Ok, even with your bias towards Nvidia cards, there are still Nvidia cards out there that are better buys for the money like the GTX 560 Ti or GTX 570. The GTX 580 simply isn't worth the extra cash at all. The extra cost doesn't justify the very small increase in longevity over other Nvidia or AMD cards.

EDIT 2: For some reason I just realized that the Intel drive isn't using their own controller for the 510 - that (subjectively) makes me feel a bit less warm/fuzzy about their previous reliability advantage. Like elsewhere in life past performance doesn't guarantee future performance, but you'd feel a bit more confident about the trend staying the same if the constituents stayed the same from generation to generation.

That was a concern for me at one point but then I realized something: Intel isn't the kind of company to skimp. As such, if they're using that Marvel controller, it means that it meets Intel's high standards.

 

[quadnad]

Ok, even with your bias towards Nvidia cards, there are still Nvidia cards out there that are better buys for the money like the GTX 560 Ti or GTX 570. The GTX 580 simply isn't worth the extra cash at all. The extra cost doesn't justify the very small increase in longevity over other Nvidia or AMD cards.

Point taken.

That was a concern for me at one point but then I realized something: Intel isn't the kind of company to skimp. As such, if they're using that Marvel controller, it means that it meets Intel's high standards.

Agreed on that - I was reading that Intel in their marketing was quick to point out that despite using a 3rd party controller it is held to the exact same (supposedly higher) standards as their previous drives. Danny, if presented with the M4, Vertex 3, and the 510, which would you go for?

Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[Dangman]

Danny, if presented with the M4, Vertex 3, and the 510, which would you go for?

Intel since I trust them a little more than Crucial.

Definitely not OCZ at all.

 

[quadnad]

Intel since I trust them a little more than Crucial.

Definitely not OCZ at all.

As painful as it is (in terms of speed and wallet), I think I'll take your advice and go for the Intel drive. Now watch, it'll arrive DOA

EDIT: I've pulled the trigger including the 510 drive. New hardware is always exciting.........