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polishing aluminum
- Thread starter TKEcowboy
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2002
- Messages
- 10,362
several grades of sandpaper (both with water and without)
2 different compounds on a buffing wheel
bare aluminum >>
320 grit
320 grit wet
400 grit
400 grit wet
600 grit
600 grit wet
buff with triploi (brownish compound)
buff with Zam (dark green compound)
take your time, if you rush, youll have to start over from the beginning
2 different compounds on a buffing wheel
bare aluminum >>
320 grit
320 grit wet
400 grit
400 grit wet
600 grit
600 grit wet
buff with triploi (brownish compound)
buff with Zam (dark green compound)
take your time, if you rush, youll have to start over from the beginning
sparkomatic
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2001
- Messages
- 302
Follow pigpens instructuins, plus for that little bit of extra shine hit it with some brasso and you will have a mirror. BUT
only apply the brasso by hand, never with a buffing wheel (A. It wont come out right and B. It will make a huge mess)
only apply the brasso by hand, never with a buffing wheel (A. It wont come out right and B. It will make a huge mess)
I've been trying to get mine polished without scratch marks, but I've run out of ideas. I have even gone to 2000 wet sanded and there are still scratches. I recently tried something called "Flitz" which seems to be doing a little better, but man it takes a lot of manual labor.
I have tried just about every additive under the sun to polish aluminum and from extreme experience, I can help you get the true mirror finish on your aluminum... It depends on your aluminum current finish, but I started with brushed Aluminum 5052 and proceeded to polish my 18" cubed case... Lots of manual labor but extreme payoff. I just love the luster...
-Points to understand first in sand paper. 400 grit is not the same as P400. They are different standards. P400 is actually approximately 320 grit. 400 grit is CAMI standard and P400 is FEPA standard. Always try to use a sanding block backing. Always try to wetsand, this will make the sanding go further preventing clogging in the particles. It also helps clear material away so that you arent sanding what you just sanded off. You will see that small black particles are removed (small fragments of aluminum).
Steps:
-Points to understand first in sand paper. 400 grit is not the same as P400. They are different standards. P400 is actually approximately 320 grit. 400 grit is CAMI standard and P400 is FEPA standard. Always try to use a sanding block backing. Always try to wetsand, this will make the sanding go further preventing clogging in the particles. It also helps clear material away so that you arent sanding what you just sanded off. You will see that small black particles are removed (small fragments of aluminum).
Steps:
- 400 grit wet sanding. Use Aluminum Oxide (lasts much longer on metal) aka P800 aka extra fine... You can start with P400 if your metal was really bad to start with or less... Judge from your own metal surface smoothness...
- P1000 wet sanding.
- P1500 wet sanding.
- P2000 wet sanding
- If you still have quite a bit of swirls marks left (depends on what you started with) progress here to a rubbing compound (2500-3000 grit equivalent). I used 3M rubbing compound with very good results...
- Now this next step will take you from "well, that looks pretty good", to "DAMN I can see myself clearly"... Buy the two products found here: Metal Armor You are going to need the refill bottles of "Metal Armor® Precision Metal Polish Part # MAPMP-8" and "Metal Armor® Final Polish & Sealant Part # MAFPS-8". If you are in need of other things like buffers, rags, etc, feel free to order a kit. Otherwise, scroll to the bottom and buy the two bottles. These two bottles did what metal polishes from TurtleWax, Meguiars, Mothers,etc. could not in several applications. Hours of time will be saved. First polish with the Metal polish. Repeat as desired. Multiple polishes will result in better finish. When you are satisifed with the clarity, use the Final Polish and Sealant. That will take off any residual polish from before, and seal the coat like clearcoating. It will then resist fingerprints and water rolls right off. Keeps the metal from oxidizing (yes, even aluminum oxidizes, not rusts but gets foggy over time untreated from moisture and polutants). You will thank yourselves at the results. I tried every metal polish I could find. At $20.00 a bottle this German developed mixture is quite a bit more expensive, but well worth it. A single bottle of this stuff (each) and a set of strong blue shop towels from local car parts store will go far. I used only one set of bottles to do an entire MountainMods UFO case. Don't bother with jewel rouge and compounds either by the way, much too slow comparatively.
- Buff out final sealant and polish with a set of microfibre towels for best luster.
Waffles730
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- May 31, 2005
- Messages
- 136
Damn Mickey, that's a lot of time, but I'm sure it was worth it. I recently polished parts of my case and got a near mirror finish, but it's still cloudy. I had spent a decent amount of time on it, using up to 1500 grit sandpaper and then some polish that I found recommended on some other sites from English Custom Polishing I'm fairly happy with it, but it would be nice to have had the full mirror look. Maybe I'll try your method in the future on some other project.
Yet another post reminding me I have to post my mod in the gallery...
Yet another post reminding me I have to post my mod in the gallery...
You have already done most of the work, I would just get a couple of those bottles I mentioned and finish it off... Let me show you how far sanding took my work:Waffles730 said:
No changes to metal, it is dirty because of other work, but still unchanged by sanding or anything, fairly stock brushed look. All the muck is from sanding on the opposite side and polish falling through...
After a little bit of 800 and 1000 grit sanding. About 20% completed on this surface. Still dirty from other work, but you get the idea. This surface is actually the inside bottom of the case and is actually smooth to the hand (fairly).
Here are two shots of 60% done. Quite a bit of 800,1000, and 1500 grit sanding. A single pass of rubbing compound has been done. One pass of metal armor has been completed as well as the final polish and sealant. Just a test of what can be done, but by no means a final process at all. You can see the original brushed aluminum metal look that MountainMods put on the case. It gives sheets of aluminum a more finished and continuous look, but I wish I could have asked them not to do it in my case. Oh well, more work for me removing them (or at least trying to).
In the end though, my goal is not to remove all the lines but to make the case reflective, these lines actually do add depth in the end and a misleading unsmooth texture finish. I will leave some of the lines in, but will take a lot of them out.
Here is that same side showing in the sunlight. This shot shows how different the final version is. In person the 60% complete portion is actually quiet nice, that is until you have seen the 90% (and later the 100% done of course). It is nowhere near what it is going to be, but just look at my rims for comparison. That rim is "polished aluminum" from the factory. Very nice to look at when freshly washed in the sun. The 60% side is about as reflective as those rims are if not more. Unfortunately the sun brings out EVERY imperfection and smudge that is around so dont just judge that side yet... Just look at how well the sun reflects on the driveway...
Here is almost complete 90% done surface that I have in mind. It is much more reflective and still lacks the final polishing, sealant, waxing, and buffing. But it is really indicative of how much more work is needed to get this thing done. Between 60% done and 90% done per surface side of this size of a case is like 10 hours of hand sanding worth of difference. Lots more work. The top picture is me focusing it to show the details lines still left in view if you look close. The bottom picture is letting the camera autofocus on it's own. It is the first time in my work shots that the camera actually chooses to focus at itself, instead of seeing the lines. I have to manually force focus the lines now... The lines may look large, but keep in mind this shot is taken only about 1.5 inches from the surface of the metal vertically perpendicular to the metal.
Here is what that whole part of the case looks like in the sunlight. Keep in mind this case is 18 inches cubed. Very large in volume. In this picture, you can actually make out the grass on the camera taking side of the driveway. Again the sunlight brings out every little smudge and will not be like this once final polish, wax, and buffing is done. In person the surface is perfectly smooth in feeling and reflectivity is very high like a mirror.
Some really interesting vantages to show reflection. Every following picture is a reflection. I did focus on the top two shots to show the detail of the lines still faintly present, but you get the idea. Very nice reflection. Look at the first picture with the screw hole in the middle left of the picture. That gives you an idea of the liquid smooth of the surfaces. Those pits look deep, but run your fingernail or hand over them and you will not detect them. They are misleadingly smooth.
And finally to see some of the final work. Here is some detail shot of a round piece of wood I had cut out and had laying around. You can see just how reflective it is. The top part of the wood is actual and the bottom is the reflection. No change in focus was made. The camera adjusted itself to find the wood object. This is still the most complete side of 90% done. I am very pleased with the outcome and how well all the hard work is paying off... Hope you all agree it is worth it.
From these worklog pictures (which I really need to finish and post up on our main forum), you can see major progress taken over many days of hard labor so dont misread how long it takes... I do have pictures of the finished case, but not on me (at work) so I will post some more later to show some finished results, but when I say mirror finish, that is what it truely look like. The hard work can really pay off... Truely I did it by hand to fully appreciate the craftsmanship of doing the work, but heck if I do that again. Definitely I will use the polishing tools and sanding tools I have next time.
I am sure I can cut that time needed to do the work down to at least 75% less time... If not less... But the feeling of accomplishment truely feels good when I assembled it all back together... Even bought a full size pelican case to transport him back and forth to LAN parties... Huge...Waffles730
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- May 31, 2005
- Messages
- 136
Just when I thought I was finished with my case, you give me hope that I could truely get a mirror. I think my sanding is fine, since I went up to 1500 grit, but I never used a rubbing compound. That must be where the problem is. I'm still really happy with it, but if it could be better, then I might give it a try once I get some money and time at school with no work.
Here are a couple pics of my right side panel. My camera is a piece of crap so the close up sucks, but from both you can see it's pretty reflective, just slightly scratched and cloudy.
The bottom one is better to see the scratches.
Thanks for all your tips, you rekindled my desire for a perfect mirror
I think my sanding is fine, since I went up to 1500 grit, but I never used a rubbing compound. That must be where the problem is. I'm still really happy with it, but if it could be better, then I might give it a try once I get some money and time at school with no work. Here are a couple pics of my right side panel. My camera is a piece of crap so the close up sucks, but from both you can see it's pretty reflective, just slightly scratched and cloudy.
The bottom one is better to see the scratches.
Thanks for all your tips, you rekindled my desire for a perfect mirror
Yeah, looks pretty good so far, some final polishing and buffing will really take it up a notch. When I saw the final results after using the Metal Armor product, I really started laughing with the difference it made when I saw it... It was like, how could it have been somewhere out there all along and I couldnt find it? Surely more people should have been swearing by it to be worth it? You will never use another polish product after using these bottles...
In reality the product I came across about half way into the progress (1.5 months) while watching a DVR recording of Trucks! on SpikeTV. In the truck gear section, Stacy talked about a polish for chrome and metal that he had tried out that would not only polish the metal, but coat the metal in a "Metal Armor" like coating to keep the polish looking good for a good while, AND that additional applications will further improve the shine more and more with each use... So true...
Even searching on google doesnt really turn up much information on it, very little known product. Almost no one sells it as well, and compared to a $5 tub of polish from any autoparts store for Meguiars and Mothers aluminum polish, worlds of difference in results... When I set out to polish my case, I wanted at least a reflective surface, but was so glad to find out it could truely look like a mirror...
From the show airing:
" Metal Polishing Kit
One dilemma that everybody faces that builds, owns, or restores cars or trucks is how to keep all that fancy polished aluminum and metal polished. Not only is it a major chore, but most of the polishes are hard on your hands, they scratch the metal, or they dont do what they say they will. Well Ive got something here that is going to make your life so much easier and it is called Metal Armor. This stuff will not only bring your metal to a fantastic shine but it also impregnates the surface and acts like an armor coating to retard the oxidation process and prevent water spots, stains etc. which means you dont have to polish as much. on top of that. It goes on and off really easy and it wont eat up your hands. There is a new polish in town and it is called Metal Armor."
Link
In reality the product I came across about half way into the progress (1.5 months) while watching a DVR recording of Trucks! on SpikeTV. In the truck gear section, Stacy talked about a polish for chrome and metal that he had tried out that would not only polish the metal, but coat the metal in a "Metal Armor" like coating to keep the polish looking good for a good while, AND that additional applications will further improve the shine more and more with each use... So true...
Even searching on google doesnt really turn up much information on it, very little known product. Almost no one sells it as well, and compared to a $5 tub of polish from any autoparts store for Meguiars and Mothers aluminum polish, worlds of difference in results... When I set out to polish my case, I wanted at least a reflective surface, but was so glad to find out it could truely look like a mirror...
From the show airing:
" Metal Polishing Kit
One dilemma that everybody faces that builds, owns, or restores cars or trucks is how to keep all that fancy polished aluminum and metal polished. Not only is it a major chore, but most of the polishes are hard on your hands, they scratch the metal, or they dont do what they say they will. Well Ive got something here that is going to make your life so much easier and it is called Metal Armor. This stuff will not only bring your metal to a fantastic shine but it also impregnates the surface and acts like an armor coating to retard the oxidation process and prevent water spots, stains etc. which means you dont have to polish as much. on top of that. It goes on and off really easy and it wont eat up your hands. There is a new polish in town and it is called Metal Armor."
Link
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2002
- Messages
- 10,362
Heres a thread on polishing aluminum, my neighbor is the one who taught me to polish (hes ERacer)
http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=52300&highlight=polishing
Here is an example of his polishing work www.ShinersInc.com/Legacy/Busa.jpg
http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=52300&highlight=polishing
Here is an example of his polishing work www.ShinersInc.com/Legacy/Busa.jpg
That does look pretty nice, of course also being a very nice bike, but I am really not seeing anything in that picture that is better than the mirror finish I have obtained with the above product that costs really about twice as much per ounce... I'll post some pictures when I get home...
Susquehannock
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 4,999
dbwillis said:
Exactly!
So many people fall prey to advertising & waste money on bottles of pre-formulated compounds
which don't work near as well, and cost significantly more.
For instance, a 2.5lb bar of tripoli is only $3.50 and will last a very long time.
http://www.pearson-jewelry.com/index.asp?catalog=1
(click on : "polishing compounds" > "polishing compounds")
CUTTING COMPOUNDS - Used to remove scratches and prepare metal for fine finishing. (tripoli etc...)
FINISHING COMPOUNDS - Used in the final stage of the buffing process. (Zam, rouge etc ...)
Honestly, I use various jeweler's compounds for Au, Pt, Ag, & other precious metals all the time.
Not to mention all the motorhead applications over the years. If it's good enough to get a
perfect mirror on an heirloom wedding band, or a show harley, it should work for your PC case just fine.
No doubt jewelers rouge works very well like tripoli, etc... But they are a little too safe. Their results take much longer to get to. A case that is many times larger than a piece of jewelry takes a long time to cut in with rouge. Hence the longer process. Plus, rouge offers very little protection at all to oxidizing, which most compounds actually contain a sealant...Susquehannock said:Exactly!
So many people fall prey to advertising & waste money on bottles of pre-formulated compounds
which don't work near as well, and cost significantly more.
For instance, a 2.5lb bar of tripoli is only $3.50 and will last a very long time.
http://www.pearson-jewelry.com/index.asp?catalog=1
(click on : "polishing compounds" > "polishing compounds")
CUTTING COMPOUNDS - Used to remove scratches and prepare metal for fine finishing. (tripoli etc...)
FINISHING COMPOUNDS - Used in the final stage of the buffing process. (Zam, rouge etc ...)
Honestly, I use various jeweler's compounds for Au, Pt, Ag, & other precious metals all the time.
Not to mention all the motorhead applications over the years. If it's good enough to get a
perfect mirror on an heirloom wedding band, or a show harley, it should work for your PC case just fine.
I used about 1/4 of a bottle of each to do the whole case. I would hardly say it was expensive to complete, but to each their own...
I uploaded an image. Unfortunately the focus is a little hard to get right, but you get the idea. In person the results are stellar though and taking pictures is really hard to justify the looks. Ignore the redish hue as it was taken with nightshot enhancement to clarify the reflection up close. My computer room is not very well lit (as I prefer it of course).
I think I will try another shot with macro on and move it closer to get a better idea next time... It also appears that when I cleared the dust off the nearby fan grills I might have just moved the dust around... Whoops...
Susquehannock
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 4,999
No doubt your results look nice. Kudos!
However, have to say I disagree somewhat. I have used both methods many times over the years
& a buffing wheel with tripoli, then rouge is still the better choice in most cases IMhO.
The abrasives are basically the same except the paste has more carrier making easier to
apply, but that's about it.
> "much longer to get to ........ takes a long time to cut in with rouge." <
The right compound & buffing wheel should 'cut' at least as well as most paste polishes. Works great
on aluminum manifolds etc. Besides, you should be doing the heavy work with sandpaper anyway.
> "1/4 of a bottle of each to do the whole case" <
One bottle to 4 cases? Not bad. A couple bars of compound (cutting-finishing) would likely
last through many many more than that though.
> "Plus, rouge offers very little protection at all to oxidizing, which most compounds actually contain a sealant..." <
And what is that 'sealant' exactly? A solvent that will come off on your hands later?
Or enhance oxidation since it was designed for different metal than what it was used for?
Nah, that's what they make sealer wax for.
Besides ... most of those compounds in bar form use a wax as a carrier also. Some are
water based as well which makes clean-up that much easier.
In all honesty I see using something like Mothers wheel polish as a beginners
solution. Or for touching up something which has already been polished.
As always, just my humble opinions.
However, have to say I disagree somewhat. I have used both methods many times over the years
& a buffing wheel with tripoli, then rouge is still the better choice in most cases IMhO.
The abrasives are basically the same except the paste has more carrier making easier to
apply, but that's about it.
> "much longer to get to ........ takes a long time to cut in with rouge." <
The right compound & buffing wheel should 'cut' at least as well as most paste polishes. Works great
on aluminum manifolds etc. Besides, you should be doing the heavy work with sandpaper anyway.
> "1/4 of a bottle of each to do the whole case" <
One bottle to 4 cases? Not bad. A couple bars of compound (cutting-finishing) would likely
last through many many more than that though.
> "Plus, rouge offers very little protection at all to oxidizing, which most compounds actually contain a sealant..." <
And what is that 'sealant' exactly? A solvent that will come off on your hands later?
Or enhance oxidation since it was designed for different metal than what it was used for?
Nah, that's what they make sealer wax for.
Besides ... most of those compounds in bar form use a wax as a carrier also. Some are
water based as well which makes clean-up that much easier.
In all honesty I see using something like Mothers wheel polish as a beginners
solution. Or for touching up something which has already been polished.
As always, just my humble opinions.
>"No doubt your results look nice. Kudos! "
Thank you much appreciated, you seem to know what your doing as well, so take my difference of opinion as mere changes in preference. I pretty much agree with you too, but have had a variance in my results thus far.
>"The abrasives are basically the same except the paste has more carrier making easier to apply, but that's about it."
Being much of the same abrasives they really are both good at doing what they do. Being easier to apply I really can't see. I mean squeezing liquid on a pad or cloth is about as easy as it gets. Running a bar against a wheel is virtually as easy. As far as applying to the work surface, well I realy dont see the point, they are both power tools in most any case and therefor the work expelled to apply is electricity used... By hand, truthfully I found the liquid polish easier to rub in than the waxy bars...
> "The right compound & buffing wheel should 'cut' at least as well as most paste polishes. Works great on aluminum manifolds etc. Besides, you should be doing the heavy work with sandpaper anyway."
This is exactly my point though, not all the pastes and polish liquids where the same at how fast they got the job done, even when I left it up to work by hand. The bottles of Metal Armor proved to be much quicker at getting fantastic results, hence my reccomendation on their usage. I think I tried enough different bottles and cans of product to help others avoid the costly testing... My reccomendations as I explained above arent for the major cutting in, but for the final polishing. But cutting in on polish is still a measurable experience. I can tell that 10 minutes of Metal Armor polish was much more productive at creating luster than 10 minutes of the other types. There really is no arguement there. It was faster...
> "One bottle to 4 cases? Not bad. A couple bars of compound (cutting-finishing) would likely last through many many more than that though."
You do realize my case is roughly 27 square feet of metal surface (minus the fan holes and such) at 18" cube inside and out, which is what I polished... Over 100sqft of polishing on 2-8 ounce bottles is pretty efficient... But yes, the polishing bars go pretty far too. Dont think I didnt try using polishing bars too....
> "And what is that 'sealant' exactly? A solvent that will come off on your hands later?
Or enhance oxidation since it was designed for different metal than what it was used for? Nah, that's what they make sealer wax for. Besides ... most of those compounds in bar form use a wax as a carrier also. Some are water based as well which makes clean-up that much easier."
I can't speak for the others, but one of the reasons I did also go with the Metal Armor product was that it was made of biodegradeable and contained no solvents to go harsh on your hands and create fumes as well. I can't speak for what they claim is their sealant, but they claim it extends luster and protect from oxidizing. You can take it up with them on what they use. I am guessing they would really not say to protect their product... Who knows...
> "In all honesty I see using something like Mothers wheel polish as a beginners
solution. Or for touching up something which has already been polished."
In my experience I wouldnt really consider it worth it...
> "As always, just my humble opinions."
Very understood. It's not like I am not taking in what others say.. Opinions are considered as well... The sharing of ideas and processes are very helpful...
"Thank you much appreciated, you seem to know what your doing as well, so take my difference of opinion as mere changes in preference. I pretty much agree with you too, but have had a variance in my results thus far.
>"The abrasives are basically the same except the paste has more carrier making easier to apply, but that's about it."
Being much of the same abrasives they really are both good at doing what they do. Being easier to apply I really can't see. I mean squeezing liquid on a pad or cloth is about as easy as it gets. Running a bar against a wheel is virtually as easy. As far as applying to the work surface, well I realy dont see the point, they are both power tools in most any case and therefor the work expelled to apply is electricity used... By hand, truthfully I found the liquid polish easier to rub in than the waxy bars...
> "The right compound & buffing wheel should 'cut' at least as well as most paste polishes. Works great on aluminum manifolds etc. Besides, you should be doing the heavy work with sandpaper anyway."
This is exactly my point though, not all the pastes and polish liquids where the same at how fast they got the job done, even when I left it up to work by hand. The bottles of Metal Armor proved to be much quicker at getting fantastic results, hence my reccomendation on their usage. I think I tried enough different bottles and cans of product to help others avoid the costly testing... My reccomendations as I explained above arent for the major cutting in, but for the final polishing. But cutting in on polish is still a measurable experience. I can tell that 10 minutes of Metal Armor polish was much more productive at creating luster than 10 minutes of the other types. There really is no arguement there. It was faster...
> "One bottle to 4 cases? Not bad. A couple bars of compound (cutting-finishing) would likely last through many many more than that though."
You do realize my case is roughly 27 square feet of metal surface (minus the fan holes and such) at 18" cube inside and out, which is what I polished... Over 100sqft of polishing on 2-8 ounce bottles is pretty efficient... But yes, the polishing bars go pretty far too. Dont think I didnt try using polishing bars too....
> "And what is that 'sealant' exactly? A solvent that will come off on your hands later?
Or enhance oxidation since it was designed for different metal than what it was used for? Nah, that's what they make sealer wax for. Besides ... most of those compounds in bar form use a wax as a carrier also. Some are water based as well which makes clean-up that much easier."
I can't speak for the others, but one of the reasons I did also go with the Metal Armor product was that it was made of biodegradeable and contained no solvents to go harsh on your hands and create fumes as well. I can't speak for what they claim is their sealant, but they claim it extends luster and protect from oxidizing. You can take it up with them on what they use. I am guessing they would really not say to protect their product... Who knows...
> "In all honesty I see using something like Mothers wheel polish as a beginners
solution. Or for touching up something which has already been polished."
In my experience I wouldnt really consider it worth it...
> "As always, just my humble opinions."
Very understood. It's not like I am not taking in what others say.. Opinions are considered as well... The sharing of ideas and processes are very helpful...
Crazystick
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2004
- Messages
- 235
I was looking to grind down and polish up a case for a project i'm working on and will probably be posting up here at a point. The case, however, is covered in tiny vent holes (ok, not completely covered, but there are very many and they are close together).
Once i get my camera working again, i'll post a picture if needed, but there is 2mm of Al between each hole (~2mm diameter). Also, the case is currently painted black. Luckily everything i would need to sand/polish can be completely removed from the system and is quite small.
It doesn't seem that it would be too big an issue, but i wanted to run it by the experts first.
Franco
--BTW Thanks for the fantastic info so far.
Once i get my camera working again, i'll post a picture if needed, but there is 2mm of Al between each hole (~2mm diameter). Also, the case is currently painted black. Luckily everything i would need to sand/polish can be completely removed from the system and is quite small.
It doesn't seem that it would be too big an issue, but i wanted to run it by the experts first.
Franco
--BTW Thanks for the fantastic info so far.