"Police bust 'world's biggest' video-game-cheat operation"

Krazy925

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They saw a business opportunity and exploited it. That car collection is pretty damn cool.
 

DukenukemX

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Government enforcing corporate policy.
And they said socialism doesn't work. But yea this isn't a good thing. Yes cheats suck but this was done to stop others from making their lottery money. Also this sounds like these people weren't cheating but playing for people to help them out. Basically you were paying to have them boost you through a game. Cheats are something you can patch in a game, not something that requires you to go to the cheaters home to take away. Pretty obvious this was done to make an example of anyone who was thinking of doing the same thing.
 

Lakados

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There are few things I loathe more than cheaters, so I can say F everybody involved here but those "Chicken Drumstick" guys can be at the front of the pegging post.
 

Krazy925

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Defending cheat makers. Keep it classy, [H].

There are few things I loathe more than cheaters, so I can say F everybody involved here but those "Chicken Drumstick" guys can be at the front of the pegging post.
So the government gets involved rather than patch the game? The vector for cheating still exists although the article doesn’t discuss that factor.

😂😂😂😂
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I just never understood cheating. If you use a hack, you didn't really win. Worse than losing fairly.

Cultural differences.

Chinese people have been suffering under corrupt single party rule for so long that they have developed a sense of pride in getting things done despite the rules. You know, finding workarounds to make things happen despite an ineffective and corrupt government standing in their way.

It's only natural to see this sensibility crossover into other arenas, such as gaming. To them they are not cheating, they are beating the system, and they feel really smart and accomplished for doing so.
 

DoubleTap

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No, comrade! No death penalty! They'll just go to a reeducation center. Never to be seen again.
I'm 100% serious - I favor public executions for (multiplayer) game cheaters.

Every player they cheated is tracked down and assembled.

Every player has a green button and a red button: Forgiveness or punishment.

Choices are completely anonymous.

If everyone who was cheated pushes the green button, the cheater goes free.

If any player chooses the push the red button, then the punishment is delivered.
 

sharknice

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Cultural differences.

Chinese people have been suffering under corrupt single party rule for so long that they have developed a sense of pride in getting things done despite the rules. You know, finding workarounds to make things happen despite an ineffective and corrupt government standing in their way.

It's only natural to see this sensibility crossover into other arenas, such as gaming. To them they are not cheating, they are beating the system, and they feel really smart and accomplished for doing so.

That's an interesting take on it and makes sense why cheating is much more rampant over there. Perhaps there are similar reasons some people in the USA do it.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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That's an interesting take on it and makes sense why cheating is much more rampant over there. Perhaps there are similar reasons some people in the USA do it.

That wouldn't surprise me.

I know this sensibility exists in Brazil too, albeit in a less intense way. They even give it a name "Jeitinho Brasiliero", and are semi-proud of it as a kind of national trait of creativity of getting around obstacles. (At least until it causes a dam to collapse due to shoddy construction, or something like that...)
 

DoubleTap

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That's an interesting take on it and makes sense why cheating is much more rampant over there. Perhaps there are similar reasons some people in the USA do it.
This is the end result of a low trust society. It has a corollary in the West where that mindset is useful (even required) in extremis:

The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win – cheat if necessary.

(The word "if" seems superfluous to me...)

Of course, when life and death are on the line, "cheating" isn't a thing because the rules and the objective are one and the same: live.
 

cybereality

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Yeah, in real life sure. If someone is attacking me, I have no problem kicking in the balls or whatever it takes.

But in a game that is supposed to be about skill, it just doesn't make sense.
 

Nobu

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And they said socialism doesn't work. But yea this isn't a good thing. Yes cheats suck but this was done to stop others from making their lottery money. Also this sounds like these people weren't cheating but playing for people to help them out. Basically you were paying to have them boost you through a game. Cheats are something you can patch in a game, not something that requires you to go to the cheaters home to take away. Pretty obvious this was done to make an example of anyone who was thinking of doing the same thing.
It's literally pay-to-win. The problem is the money was going to the wrong pockets... 🤷‍♂️
 

DukenukemX

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Defending cheat makers. Keep it classy, [H].
Not defending cheaters but getting the police involved is going too far. It also doesn't make sense. If someone is cheating then that usually means they're exploiting something in the game. Exploits can be patched, and should be patched. They also said they were providing a service, which doesn't sound like cheating but a service where you pay them to play for you. You kinda see this a lot in World of Warcraft where you pay someone to play on your account so you don't have to. Imagine a casual player going up against a professional who has other professionals to back him up. You pay them to play for you and increase your rank.

The lack of information from the article seems like feel good journalism where the good guys triumph over the evil cheaters. The good guys being Tencent who don't have a good reputation when it comes to gamers interests. The bad guys are cheaters who somehow made a living from cheating and bought some really nice cars. Feels like I should be cheering the cheaters honestly. Unless I know how they were cheating, I feel this is just another Tencent move to better the interest of China.
 

cybereality

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I took it to mean the service was sending you the cheat apps (which probably had to be updated all the time as security holes were fixed).

Personally, I hate cheaters but I agree using the police is too far. At least in the USA I believe it would just be a breach of terms of service and a ban. Not criminal charges.
 

DukenukemX

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I took it to mean the service was sending you the cheat apps (which probably had to be updated all the time as security holes were fixed).
Then you patch the game. You don't waste tax payers money on police when you could use your money to hire programmers to patch your game. I'm just glad it was China's money. If the cheaters can out perform your programmers then hire better programmers.
Personally, I hate cheaters but I agree using the police is too far. At least in the USA I believe it would just be a breach of terms of service and a ban. Not criminal charges.
I don't even like bans. You paid for the game and now can't use it because you're banned. I'd rather the cheaters be locked with other cheaters in a sorta cheater hell. The cheaters won't know they're playing with only cheaters. Unban them from cheater hell for 3 months and if they're detected cheating again then back to cheater hell. As a Linux user who tries to play Windows games on Linux, I don't like the idea of getting banned because the anti-cheat program found out I'm using Linux.

Whatever happened to the simple Ban Hammer?
tenor.gif
 

HockeyJon

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I don't even like bans. You paid for the game and now can't use it because you're banned.

It’s in the interests of the developer to ban cheaters who are ruining the experience of legitimate players and may lead to them not playing their game. I fully support banning cheaters, I don’t care what they paid for the game.
 

Lakados

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Then you patch the game. You don't waste tax payers money on police when you could use your money to hire programmers to patch your game. I'm just glad it was China's money. If the cheaters can out perform your programmers then hire better programmers.

I don't even like bans. You paid for the game and now can't use it because you're banned. I'd rather the cheaters be locked with other cheaters in a sorta cheater hell. The cheaters won't know they're playing with only cheaters. Unban them from cheater hell for 3 months and if they're detected cheating again then back to cheater hell. As a Linux user who tries to play Windows games on Linux, I don't like the idea of getting banned because the anti-cheat program found out I'm using Linux.

Whatever happened to the simple Ban Hammer?
View attachment 344066
I miss the ban hammer but in a world where most of the big online games are free to play they can just keep creating new accounts with disposable email addresses and there are some things you just can't patch. Most of the cheats now involve things like using modified drivers. They aren't some program called iCheat.exe running in the background.
They are modified mouse drivers, altered video drivers, cheats of this nature aren't something that can be patched out there is no flaw in the game they are exploiting, they are exploiting a memory leak that the modified drivers intentionally create at the hardware API level. So unless you are wanting developers to start releasing kernel-level anti-cheat that is actively scanning everything in the system and video memory, as well as the IO, generated from all USB peripheral devices in painful detail all in real-time. You need to come at it from a different angle, and while using the police is heavy-handed there isn't really a software fix for it that would be remotely acceptable to actually implement.
 

cybereality

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Yeah, there are ways to make cheats undetectable. I know how to do it, could probably make a lot of money, but I would feel like a douchebag.
 

Lakados

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Yeah, there are ways to make cheats undetectable. I know how to do it, could probably make a lot of money, but I would feel like a douchebag.
And at the rate, this is going end up getting ratted out by some 13-year old who gets angry when they fail to update their cheats and get caught and banned so they rat you out in every forum they can find so the developers notice and start a legal investigation to take you down. Landing you in a rough prison with a charge that guarantees you a lot of shower time friends....
 

Flogger23m

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Cultural differences.

Chinese people have been suffering under corrupt single party rule for so long that they have developed a sense of pride in getting things done despite the rules. You know, finding workarounds to make things happen despite an ineffective and corrupt government standing in their way.

It's only natural to see this sensibility crossover into other arenas, such as gaming. To them they are not cheating, they are beating the system, and they feel really smart and accomplished for doing so.

On top of that in many cultures cheating is just seen as a legitimate advantage. "If you cheat and get away with it, good for you" - is the mindset many of these people have. Same with IP theft and the like.

I'm okay with people profiting massively off of this getting jail time. That is a serious industry that rivals other big businesses, including the game developers themselves. People that make cheats for profit harm the businesses that developer games. It costs a lot to keep games cheat free, and if a game has too many cheaters the player base can suffer.
 

Dark12

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"Just patch the game" won't cut it for me.
There are multiple cases of this happening in my recollection.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39490317

Why were police needed for this one? I don't know. Maybe they weren't showing up in court.
And yes. The service they were providing here was keeping the cheat updated to avoid detection. Not playing for you.
No tears from me for this trash.

Also, stop bringing politics into this discussion.
 

SvenBent

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So the government gets involved rather than patch the game? The vector for cheating still exists although the article doesn’t discuss that factor.

😂😂😂😂

no no the policy destroyed the cheats accroding to the articles
"Kunshan police found and destroyed 17 cheats and arrested 10 people in connection with the ring."

I laughed hard internally reading that crap in the article.
 

SvenBent

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I miss the ban hammer but in a world where most of the big online games are free to play they can just keep creating new accounts with disposable email addresses and there are some things you just can't patch. Most of the cheats now involve things like using modified drivers. They aren't some program called iCheat.exe running in the background.
They are modified mouse drivers, altered video drivers, cheats of this nature aren't something that can be patched out there is no flaw in the game they are exploiting, they are exploiting a memory leak that the modified drivers intentionally create at the hardware API level. So unless you are wanting developers to start releasing kernel-level anti-cheat that is actively scanning everything in the system and video memory, as well as the IO, generated from all USB peripheral devices in painful detail all in real-time. You need to come at it from a different angle, and while using the police is heavy-handed there isn't really a software fix for it that would be remotely acceptable to actually implement.
Remember when asus provided cheat drivers for CS:go that allowed you to see through the fist layers of textures....
or when the realised and audio radar so you can better se where shots came from ?

None of these had anything to do with flaws in the game. at somepoint a game has to run on hardware/system that is out of the games programmers control.
 
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