Please Opine: Mid Range Core 2 Duo

O

orangepips

n00b
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
14
Wish List Link: http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=3672634

  • Case/PSU: Antec p150 / NeoPower 430
  • Motherboard: ASUS P5B Deluxe/WiFi-AP P965
  • Video: BFG Tech BFGR79256GSOCE GeForce 7900GS
  • CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E4300
  • RAM: Patriot eXtreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2
  • HD: SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
  • Monitor: HP LP2065 Silver-Carbonite 20.1" 8ms DVI LCD Monitor

Goals
  1. Performance/quality relative to price and energy consumption
  2. Overclock CPU w/stock cooling
  3. Quiet
  4. Upgrade CPU & GPU in 12-18 mos

Usage
  1. Programming
  2. Moderate Gaming (mostly RPGs or Strategy)
 
That CPU will reach much higher with aftermarket cooling.
 
If I'm disappointed with the overclock, or fan noise, I get with stock cooling I'll invest in an aftermarket CPU cooling solution. My impression is that I can overclock somewhere between 25-50% with stock cooling, which I think will suit me well enough.
 
You can push a e4300 past e6600 speeds with an updated cooler. What is your budget and will you be running Vista?
 
Budget $1450-1550 including all hardware, monitor and operating system. Newegg wishlist details all items. After mail-in rebates somewhere below $1500 currently.

I plan on installing Windows XP Professional (32 bit) as my OS. However, I am willing to see an argument in favor of Vista, and have considered Home Premium and Business, but not seen anything compelling me to switch.
 
orangepips said:
Budget $1450-1550 including all hardware, monitor and operating system. Newegg wishlist details all items. After mail-in rebates somewhere below $1500 currently.

I plan on installing Windows XP Professional (32 bit) as my OS. However, I am willing to see an argument in favor of Vista, and have considered Home Premium and Business, but not seen anything compelling me to switch.
Click to expand...

One word "crysis" one sweet looking game. Vista for the win...
 
I'll probably never play Crysis, FPS games are not something I particularly enjoy.

When DX10 games and cards reach a moderating price point I'll take a look, but right now it strikes me that the price/performance/energy consumption ratio king for video cards goes to either the 7900gs or x1950pro albeit the latter appears to consume significantly more power for only moderately more performance.

As for Vista, it runs more slowly than XP, and driver support is still maturing. What new features does it offer over XP that are a must have for programming or gaming for someone who purchases most of their games after they hit the used bins?
 
1) I think there are better choices for RAM out there. Gskill HZs, crucial ballistix, and others.

2) If you plan to upgrade the cpu in a year, whey not go with the P5K deluxe for about $40 more? It will be compatible with the upcoming penryn core and generally is a faster board than the P5B deluxe.
 
Duly noted. I've switched the RAM to G.Skill HZs and the P5K P35 motherboard.

Would love to see some information comparing DDR2 performance in the 965P and P35 boards.
 
1) Vista is not slower than XP when they look the same. Aero does slow Vista down, but IMHO, Vista is a much better OS (I've been running it since RC1)

2) I'm a dev and the #1 thing I do on Vista is run VMs. A VM on Vista runs much more smoothly than on XP. The next generation of programming (WPF, XAML, mashups, .NET 3.0, etc) are all designed and developed with Vista in mind.

If your school is like mine was, you should be able to get Vista for free (through MSDNAA). I left long before Vista was released, but Vista Business is part of the Academic Alliance, AFAIK.

If, however, you are going to a Java based school, don't bother with either. Install Linux or dual boot with XP for games. But, if your flavor of games doesn't include FPS, you should be fine with Linux.
 
With development in mind, which version of Vista would you choose Home Premium or Business? And 32 or 64 bit? I would tend to think Business 32 bit, if only for IIS, and my perception that 64 bit support is not there yet. Your thoughts are appreciated.
 
Depends on what you want to do. If you want a Media Center PC, Home Premium, if not, Business. Use the MS choice matrix [1] to figure it out.

As far as 32 vs 64, drivers for 64 bit Vista are getting better all the time. With that said, I run 32 bit Ultimate at work since some DLLs that we use are 32 bit and there are problems with that [2] So, 32 for now but be prepared to go to 64 when your "cycle" comes around.

If I were you, I'd go with the best parts for the money with the realization that even RPGs (Oblivion) will use more processing power by the time your "cycle" is ready to loop back around.

Also, IIS can be installed on any version of Vista [3] the only limitation is concurrent remote connections (5 vs 10)

Hope this helps. If you're a budding ms dev, go watch channel 9 [4] and play around with all the free software you can. But also make sure to brush up on your people skills, since that's where the REAL $ in dev is.

Nate

[1] http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/choose.mspx
[2] http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/aa496329.aspx
[3] http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/windows/2006/12/04/install-iis-in-vista/
[4] http://channel9.msdn.com/
 
I'd go for the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R instead. Its much cheaper than the P5K Deluxe. I just think mobos that cost more than $150 are a waste unless you really need it (eg. 30" LCD needs a 680i SLI chipset board).

The advantages of DDR3 won't be noticed until the technology is more mature. As of right now, DDR3 offers no advantages over DDR2, performance-wise.

Linux drivers are better for NVIDIA cards, so I'd stick with the 7900GS in your case; unless, of course, you won't be developing on that platform.
 
Based on comments revamped:

Motherboard GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3P (like the firewire & digital audio out)
Video Card MSI NX7900GS-T2D512E-OC GeForce 7900GS (my impression is that more memory will help with monitor resolution of 1600x1200)
RAM G.SKILL Hz 2GB (1GB x 2) PC 6400
OS Vista Home Premium 64 bit
DVD Burner Lite On LH-20A1L-06 (SATA connector and Vista certified. Anyone have experience with this drive or recommend something else?)

Any other comments appreciated.

Complete Build Newegg wishlist:

http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=3672634
 
1) Why are you getting 2 DVD burners instead of a burner and a ROM?

2) I like a single big monitor (HP 24" widescreen) as opposed to 2 20". The HP 24" is under $600 AR and you get the added bonus of 1080p and the ability to go vertical if you peruse the forums.

If you do both of those, you can save enough to upgrade your graphics card to an 8800 GTS 320 which will be teh sweet.

Nate
 
DVD burners I though about a DVD ROM drive, but haven't been able to find one that is marked as ready for Vista has a SATA connector (although the SATA connector is not as important). Does anyone have a suggestion?

Monitor I'm torn between two 20 inch monitors and a 24" monitor. Right now, I like the idea of two monitors doing programming work with one showing the IDE and the other the result. Does anyone have experience with just using a 24" monitor and just resizing windows for this purpose? And what monitor they're using?
 
I've owned dual 20" LCDs for about 4 years now, and I just sold one of them. I'm looking to purchase a single larger widescreen (either 24/26/27 to achieve 1920x1200)
My only hesitations now are:
get a 24" for ~$650.
Get a 26" for ~$1100.
get a Westinghouse 37/42 ~$800 / 1200
Bad things about the Westinghouse: 1920x1080
Vertical space is valuable. 37" would be great, but 1080... ugh.

Reasons:
-30" widescreen and video cards to push 2560x1600 costs WAY too much.
- crosshairs are on the middle if you game with dual 20". -> no FPS games on dual.
- I want widescreen now.

Disadvantages:
-1920x1200 is significantly less space than 3200x1200
- dual 20" is much better for general use
- dual looks sweet.
- bragging rights of dual 20"
- AOE3 and C&C3 are unbelieveable at 3200x1200.
 
orangepips said:
DVD burners I though about a DVD ROM drive, but haven't been able to find one that is marked as ready for Vista has a SATA connector (although the SATA connector is not as important). Does anyone have a suggestion?

Monitor I'm torn between two 20 inch monitors and a 24" monitor. Right now, I like the idea of two monitors doing programming work with one showing the IDE and the other the result. Does anyone have experience with just using a 24" monitor and just resizing windows for this purpose? And what monitor they're using?
Click to expand...

2 burners is the way to go anyway. A DVD-ROM isn't significantly less expensive -- a pair of 20X LiteOn SATA DVDRWs will run you $66 or so. Also -- get SATA drives if only because motherboard manufacturers seem to be phasing out PATA. The price difference is, again, like $2 per drive.

A 22" or 24" widescreen should be plenty of realestate. I do the same thing from time to time on my 20" standard aspect at 1600x1200 without issue, so at 19xx or higher you should be just fine.
 
i love dual monitors... i also love a huge single monitor... so go for both, a 30" LCD flanked by two 20" turned portrait mode. :D Theres pix around here somewhere, lol. What? oh, too expensive... i c. Do you mind having a split in the middle? if not, then go for dual. if so, then go for single. Thats the easiest way to decide, lol.
 
1) There is not a $3 difference, I find a DVD-RW to be $33 like you say [1], but a SATA DVD-ROM is $18 [2] which is just about 1/2 the price. And since I'm probably never going to need to burn 2 discs at once, I'll just use the one :)

2) My main problem with dual monitors is that when they are right next to each other, the screens are ~2" apart whereas the mouse moves only 10 or so pixels. This is amazingly frustrating since normally 2" is (depending on your resolution) ~200 pixels so your hand moves the mouse 200 pixels and the cursor is 2" into the next screen. I do, however, love to use dual monitors if they are separated by a foot or so, forcing your head to do the pivot instead of your eyes.

3) As far as dev on the duals, I always have IDE on monitor 1, music, outlook, msn, internet etc on monitor 2. Right now I'm on two laptops, and this one is my general purpose one, the other is strictly dev. So, if you have a 24" and a 20" separated by a foot, that would be a SWEET setup for dev. It would also help you not concentrate on dev 100% of the time.

The PERFECT setup for dual monitors (24 and 20) would be to have them at right angles with a gap in the middle, so you can type on one, and when you get a beep (IM, outlook), look over your shoulder to the other one. Man, now I'm going to have to convince my wife that we need a 24" widescreen and a 20". Dang.

Nate


[1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827106070
[2] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827106039
 
I for one would say go vista. I played around with it when my new rig was working :rolleyes: and i loved it. Felt like a huge breath of fresh air. I mean a HUGE breath of air. I'm only 18 and xp was the only OS i've used up until Vista. It was great. :cool:
 
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