Please help with new build

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13 200Forester

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Sep 10, 2009
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) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Will most importantly be a work computer working in Lightroom 2.4 and Photoshop CS4 including Photoshop plug-ins (OnOne Plug-In Suite 4, Nik Software Complete Collection). In addition the computer is used for MS Office programs, web browsing, email, DeLorme Topo USA 7.0 and light gaming. My photo files can run to 200 and 300mb each with the typical file being 120mb. I also listen to lots of music and want a good sound card.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
I don’t have a hard and fast budget but wish to keep under 3,000.00 not including tax, shipping or OS license (Windows 7 64 bit)
3) Where do you live? Seattle, WA USA
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
CPU-like Intel core i7 920, Motherboard-like EVGA 141-BL-E757, Case-like Cooler Master HAF 932, Memory-like Corsair 12GB DDR3 1600mz kit, Power Supply-like Corsair 850 or 1000W, drive bay storage system for cold swap deep storage of backup of photos on HDs, Video Card-like EVGA GeForce GTX 285 for photoshop GPU acceleration, Audio Card-like Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium, Optical Drive-like Pioneer Blu-ray Burner,
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Altec Lansing 5.1 speaker system (Dell version), Eizo 24” wide gamut LCD
6) Will you be overclocking?
Mildly or not at all possibly 3.2
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
Eizo ColorEdge CE240W
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
ASAP
9) What features do you need in a motherboard?
RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
No SLI or Crossfire as I am not into 3-D gaming. I want a powerful graphics card that is qualified for Adobe CS4 specifically Photoshop and Lightroom to accelerate preview of large photo files. I may want to do a RAID scratch disk for working with photos.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?
Yes, Will have Windows 7 64 bit full license (not upgrade)



Thanks so much for your help all. This is my first build, but I have some help from one of the people on the [H] forum for assembly. He suggested I post this so that we could get all of your ideas and suggestions for my build. Thanks so much for your time!
 
Intel core i7 920
EVGA 141-BL-E757
Cooler Master HAF 932
Corsair 12GB DDR3 1600mz kit
Corsair 850 or 1000W
drive bay storage system for cold swap deep storage of backup of photos on HDs,
EVGA GeForce GTX 285 for photoshop GPU acceleration
Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium
Pioneer Blu-ray Burner
Click to expand...

Since you don't need SLI, save some cash and go with the Asus P6T SE instead.
$220 - ASUS P6T SE LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX ($15MIR)

You don't need an 850W PSU, only a good quality 550W - 650W, mainly because you don't need such a high end GPU. IIRC, even the lower end cards support CUDA and still improve performance. Save some cash and go with the GTX260 fpr around $165 instead.
ADOBE: List of tested Graphics Cards for CS4
$165 - BFG Tech BFGEGTX260896OCE GeForce GTX 260 896MB ($20MIR)

$80 - Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W 80+ Certified
$90 - Antec TruePower New TP-550 550W 80+ Bronze
$100 - Antec TruePower New TP-650 650W 80+ Bronze
$120 - CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W 80+ Certified

If you want to speed up the system, and since you have the budget, I'd highly suggest one or two SSDs in RAID0, and get a couple F1 or Caviar Black 1TB drives for storage. If you go for a single SSD for OS/Apps, get the Intel X25-M G2 (msrp $225). If you want RAID0, go for an Indilinx-based SSD, like the OCZ Vertex/Agility/etc, Super Talent UltraDrive ME, Patriot TorqX, or G.Skill Falcon.
http://www.alphaq.org/enginurd/hdd/ocz_vertex.html

Get 2 of these:
$317 - Super Talent UltraDrive ME FTM28GX25H 2.5" 128GB SATA II MLC Internal SSD

12GB of RAM is good, but you'll also want Superspeed RAMdisk for a much faster scratch disk.

Joe Average said:
I built a RAID 0 box for a small image studio 2 weeks ago, a new startup here in Vegas that is making waves. They wanted a "demo" workstation to see what's possible for processing as they don't want to create a massive server-type situation in the office, but 3-4 workstations that are equal in performance and then just using simple file sharing as required. Very simple setup in terms of the network, but the workstation I built used 2 300GB Velociraptors (tried to sell 'em on SSD but the amount of data they're dealing with wouldn't be practical - again, a price-to-performance and ROI issue).

The hard part was getting them to spring for 16GB of RAM because of the cost, but a few weeks ago I saw that sale for 4 4GB sticks of RAM for about $450 and made a few phone calls and snagged a similar deal.

I set up Photoshop CS3 for 'em (their legit retail copy) on Vista Business x64. They started messing around with it, loading some rather large TIFF files in excess of 150MB a pop, several at a time, performing some basic scripted actions on 'em, blurs, filters, etc. Using the Velociraptors in RAID 0 meant very snappy and consistent performance, as well as having 16GB of RAM too. Also, it's a Q6600 based machine running rock solid at 3 GHz.

They were very pleased with the performance at that point, but I had a surprise for 'em. ;)

I asked if I could have 20 mins 'alone' with the workstation to "rewire it" as Tim Allen might say. That consisted of grabbing a trial version of SuperSpeed Software's RamDisk Plus 9 and installing it, doing the simple configuration, and then creating a 10GB RAMdisk and told Photoshop "Ok, you want a scratch disk? Here, try this on for size."

After I did some tests of my own using the same scripts they'd done earlier, boy... I tell ya. You haven't lived till you see 225MB TIFF files literally snap onscreen in the blink of an eye, multiple huge TIFFs with resolutions like 5000x5000 and even higher. That's what's possible with RAMdisks, because even Velociraptors in RAID 0 pumping out something like 280MB/s sustained pales to the close to 5GB a second in bandwidth of that RAMdisk.

I told 'em to come back in and rerun their test scripts.

Jaws hit the floor, folks. Well, not quite but figuratively speaking, at least.

They asked what I'd done, I told them I put the scratch disk in RAM where it should be if you have the RAM to make it happen, and they bought 4 licenses of RamDisk Plus 10 mins later, and I got a signed contract to construct 3 more workstations identical to that one top to bottom and also be their "geek" if any issues come up.

It was a very good week... ;)
Click to expand...
 
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Hi Guys,

I am going to help the OP assemble his system. Thanks for choosing parts!

How does this build look?

case Cooler Master HAF 932 $140
mobo Asus P6T SE $220
processor Core i7 920 $280
cpu cooler Cooler Master V-8 $60
ram Corsair XMS3 12GB DDR3 1600 $270
video card EVGA GTX260 Re-Certified $140
sound card Creative 70SB088000004 X-Fi Titanium $90
power supply Corsair CMPSU-750TX $120
dvd drive Samsung SATA DVD Burner SH-S223L $32
system drive Intel X25-M G2 160GB SSD $474
scratch disk Intel X25-M G2 160GB SSD $474
photo storage WD Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB $95
backup WD Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB $95

Total $2490

Newegg is really gouging G2 160GB SSDs right now, so looking at other options. I am not sure how comfortable the OP is with building raid arrays thus the x25m drives for system and scratch disk. I am sure he could do raid if you think it is needed here. Probably pick up ramdisk and try that too. What do you think, too much $$ on SSDs? Better to get an 80GB boot drive and 80GB scratch drive? Not sure if the OP would like to have such a small system drive. Thoughts?
 
RAMdisk is cheaper than a whole SSD dedicated to scratch, and RAM is MUCH faster than an SSD. I'd go for a single X25-M unless he wants RAID0, and use the money for the other SSD on RAMDisk plus.

$630... wow, price gouging indeed (MSRP is $440)... give it a couple more months. In the meantime, create a 100-200GB partition on the Caviar Black and use that as the system drive. When prices reach MSRP or lower, pick up the SSD. 80GB isn't enough for OS/Apps?!? My OS/Apps partition is only 50GB, with 20GB free, lol. :p Alternatively, pickup two Vertex or UltraDrive ME's and throw them in RAID0 -- the RAID0 mitigates the slow random write speeds, and Indilinx GC works just as well as TRIM would (IIRC, they're still working on TRIM support).

As for RAID0, once everything is setup, backup the image onto a small partition on the Caviar black or some external device. If the array fails, simply re-image the replacements.
 
enginurd said:
RAMdisk is cheaper than a whole SSD dedicated to scratch, and RAM is MUCH faster than an SSD. I'd go for a single X25-M unless he wants RAID0, and use the money for the other SSD on RAMDisk plus.

$630... wow, price gouging indeed (MSRP is $440)... give it a couple more months. In the meantime, create a 100-200GB partition on the Caviar Black and use that as the system drive. When prices reach MSRP or lower, pick up the SSD. 80GB isn't enough for OS/Apps?!? My OS/Apps partition is only 50GB, with 20GB free, lol. :p Alternatively, pickup two Vertex or UltraDrive ME's and throw them in RAID0 -- the RAID0 mitigates the slow random write speeds, and Indilinx GC works just as well as TRIM would (IIRC, they're still working on TRIM support).

As for RAID0, once everything is setup, backup the image onto a small partition on the Caviar black or some external device. If the array fails, simply re-image the replacements.
Click to expand...

I am with you on the ramdisk, but I was reading up on the adobe site and it looks like you can dedicate space on multiple volumes for scratch disk. If he dedicates say 6-8GB for ram disk and he opens more photos than his ram disk can hold, it may be an issue (I don't know if this is true, but it stands to reason anyway). He explained to me that he wanted a super photoshop machine and this looks like the #1 place to spend. What about the 80GB X25-M G2 for System and another for scratch disk (in addition to the ramdisk)?

Yes I agree about the 80GB system drive is plenty (that is what I use too). Some people tend to put things on the desktop though and activly managing your files all the time is a pain in the rear if you ask me. When the 160GB drives come down to $300 or so I am totally getting a new system drive!

As far as using a some vertx in raid 0, that is an interesting proposition. I have a single vertex 60 and enjoy it. Have they slowed down and finalized the firmware for those? I was an early adopter and it wore on me after a while flashing the firmware. FYI, UltraDrive ME's are out of stock.
 
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Like this??

case Cooler Master HAF 932 $140
mobo Asus P6T SE $220
processor Core i7 920 $280
cpu cooler Cooler Master V-8 $60
ram Corsair XMS3 12GB DDR3 1600 $270
video card EVGA GTX260 Re-Certified $140
sound card Creative 70SB088000004 X-Fi Titanium $90
power supply Corsair CMPSU-750TX $120
dvd drive Samsung SATA DVD Burner SH-S223L $32
system drive Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD $250
scratch disk Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD $250
photo storage WD Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB $95
backup WD Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB $95

Total $2042
 
Yes, indeed, the extra SSD for additional scratch would be great, if he needs it. Find out how large the files he's working with are and decide from there.

Indilinx's most recent firmware is much improved over the older ones. Garbage collection has nearly solved the degradation problem on used cells, and official TRIM support is on its way. A single Indilinx based drive has extremely slow random write speeds, which makes them inferior to Intel's drives. However, RAID0 helps mitigate these problems by actually speeding up the small random write speeds, making them viable alternatives, both in terms of price and performance.

Oh, I also forgot to mention that I'd take the BFG brand new for $25 more over a recertified eVGA, unless the recertified eVGA has a lifetime warranty and is eligible for the step up program. BFG has its own trade up program and lifetime warranty, as well as very good support.
 
OK, I will suggest the BFG, didn't know about the step up!

If he goes Indilinx, what would you suggest, a raid0 scratch disk and a raid 0 system drive? How about an 80gb X25-m for system drive and a raid 0 with two 60gb vertex for scratch?

His files are typically 2-300MB
 
Getting tempted to build a really bad a$$ SSD array for him :) that is why I asked him to post here and get a variety of opinions on the best setup. Thank you very much for all of your help!
 
Yah, the 80GB X25-M single system drive is good. His files are only 2-300MB, so I doubt he would need RAID0 SSD scratch -- RAMDisk should be enough. The reason I'm hesitant to suggest so many SSDs (more than 2) is because they're still rather expensive, but if he doesn't mind the price, then sure, go for it. I'd still hate to pay the current price on X25-M's, knowing Intel's own MSRP is so much lower.

The 120GB Indilinx based drives are up to 15% faster than the 30 and 60GB models. However, the 30 and 60GB models are by no means slow. :p Just look at my ocz page I linked above... they're pretty damn fast. As for the size, again, since his files are 2-300MB, even a dual 30GB Vertex RAID0 array would be fine for extra scratch. Though, I'm still not sure if he even needs that extra scratch.

Honestly, I'd go for either a single X25-M, or dual Vertex in RAID0 -- as the system drive. I'd hold off on the extra scratch SSD(s) until he tries out the system with the scratch in RAMDisk. Get 12GB and use 6GB for the RAMDisk. Also, if you go with dual 120GB Vertex in RAID0, that should be more than enough room for OS/Apps/additional scratch, IMO.
 
Thanks! We will price out both options and he can make the call that way, both good options.

We will look for x25-m drives closer to msrp if we go that route.

Thanks so much for you help!
 
no prob. oh yah, buy.com had some for $230 not long ago, but went out of stock fast.
 
OK,

Here is the final build, he may order tomorrow or Monday if he approves the parts. Last chance to tweak anything!

Thanks again!

arlo.jpg
 
You can save $15 by buying the same CPU and mobo from this combo link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.252981

Also, I highly recommend hitting up the audio subforum we have to double check on the sound card. No offense to some of the people in this part of the forum, but sound cards are not a major area that we tend to concentrate on.

But you can just buy the rest of the PC while awaiting for more info whether or not that sound card is decent.
 
SSDs don't get hot at all, so no real need for an icy dock. In case he wants to be able to swap the SSDs easily, here are some mobile rack choices:

2x2.5" in 1x3.5" bay:
$32 - Bytecc BT-M240-BK Snap-In 2.5" SATA Double Drive Mobile Rack
$35 - iStarUSA BPU-2535 1 x 3.5" to 2 x 2.5" SATA Hot-Swap Mobile Cage
$36 - Syba CL-HD-MRDU25S Mobile Rack for 2.5" SATA

4x2.5" in 1x5.25" bay:
$57 - Athena Power BP-SATA1842C 2.5" (SATA, SAS) Backplane Unit - Retail
$60 - iStarUSA BPU-124-SS 1 x 5.25" to 4 x 2.5" SATA/SAS Hot-Swap Backplane RAID Cage - Retail
$83 - XClio SS014 4 x 2.5" HDD in 1 x 5.25" Cage - Retail
$85 - SUPERMICRO CSE-M14T 2.5" mobile rack - Retail
$90 - SUPERMICRO CSE-M14TB 2.5" mobile rack (Black) - Retail

Oh, and I'd also go for Arctic Cooling MX-2 instead of AS5. It performs on par with AS5 but its non-conductive and doesn't require time to cure for optimal performance.
 
enginurd said:
SSDs don't get hot at all, so no real need for an icy dock. In case he wants to be able to swap the SSDs easily, here are some mobile rack choices:

2x2.5" in 1x3.5" bay:
$32 - Bytecc BT-M240-BK Snap-In 2.5" SATA Double Drive Mobile Rack
Click to expand...

I had trouble with the intel drive height in hot swap trays like this. Vertex fits fine, but the extra raised plastic ridge on the intel drives made them not fit. Do the G2 drives have the raised plastic ridge?

I will look at the other thermal compound, thanks!
 
Thanks Danny! I will suggest the mobo proc combo link.

I will see if the OP will do a thread in the audio forum. I have the fatal1ty version of this card and it works well, the only difference for this card is no x-ram and heat sheild (like you need those anyway). I got mine on a hot sale though, otherwise I was getting this card for price and size. I bet they will suggest a xonar card and that may be better.
 
Ok, the OP went to the audio section and found that the Auzentech cards are best and the one he wants is out of stock at newegg. Here is the build without the two intel x-25m 80GB drives (ordering elsewhere due to newegg severe price gouge and sound card (out of stock). I didn't switch out the icy docks for the SSDs, becuase I couldn't tell if they would fit with the plastic lip on the intel drives and I didn't want to use cheap looking metal brackets.
arlo_2.jpg
 
Is the gtx 260 the best for cs4 because the gtx 280 and above aren't listed? Or is it because they just didn't test them.
 
A hardy thanks to all that assisted me in designing my new machine--in particular enginurd, It_shiro, notsane and DannyBui. All the parts and components are now ordered and I'm totally looking forward to the build. notsane is helping me with the build, or more to the point, I will assist notsane with the assembly. He is the expert but I will experience the thrill of building a computer and seeing it come to life. I'm excited and can hardly wait to work in Photoshop with my dream machine. Again, thanks to all!!!
 
Hi Guys,

We did the build last night (and took lotsa pics..on the way). Things went well aside from two issues.

First, the icy docks are somhow interfering with the hard drive sata connection and posting is intermittent when using the docks, so we removed them and the OP plans on returing them.

The main problem now is that it is only showing 8GB ram in windows 7 64. I have tried re-seating the sticks and would have done more testing if the icy dock issue hadn't slowed us down (ran out of time).

What steps should the OP take to trouble shoot the ram? Try 1 stick at a time in slot a1 am make sure al are good and move up from there until it doesn't show up?

It would suck if he had to RMA the ram since they would want all of it!
 
Yeah check each stick of RAM seperately. However, see if there's a Memory remap option in the BIOs.
 
Take 1 Dimm and boot the system, if that works. Re-test each slot.

Then test each piece in first slot and if all past, try them in groups of 3s.
 
Yes try each stick and each slot, one at a.... nm... me so slow.
 
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