Please help me build a quiet & powerful PC!

[Pyrogenic]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

The PC will mostly be used as a DAW (Nuendo with Lots of samplers). It'll also be used for gaming (Mostly FPS & Strategy) and also for general use like web browsing and text editing.

I want the machine to be very stable, very quiet and to preform well - probably in that order.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

Don't want to spend much more than $2000AUD (Approx. $1350USD)

3) Where do you live?

Australia

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.

Case, PSU, Motherboard, CPU, CPU Heat Sink, CPU Heat Sink Fan, RAM, Video, Video Heat Sink, Optical Drive, HDD.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

Keyboard, Mouse, Monitor (22" LCD, usually run at 1280x1024), Audio Interface (RME FireFace 400), Seagate 1.5TB HDD.

6) Will you be overclocking?

I wouldn't mind squeezing some extra juice out of the CPU, so long as stability and noise are not adversely affected.

7) What size monitor do you have or plan to have?

22" LCD, usually run at 1280x1024

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

ASAP.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.

I'll need Firewire for my audio interface.

Also, I'm considering these future upgrades for year or so down the track:

> Vista 64 when the next version of my sequencer software comes out.
> CPU to a quad core
> 4GB extra RAM
> 2nd Video card.

Because of this, I want a PSU with a bit of extra grunt and a mobo with crossfire support.

Here're some specs I've put together over the past few days:

NOTE: All prices are in Australian Dollars.

Case: Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 $295.00
PSU: Zalman ZM750-HP $206.95
Motherboard: MSI P45 Platinum $260.51
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 $275.00
CPU Heat Sink: OCZ Vendetta 2 $61.00
CPU Heat Sink Fan: Scythe S-FLEX 120mm Fan 800rpm SFF21D $27
RAM: Patriot Viper 4GB PVS24G6400LLK $115
Video: Gigabyte ATI HD4850 512MB $256.00
Video Heat Sink: Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Rev. 2 (Passive) $45.30
Optical Drive: Pioneer DVR-212 OEM $37.00
HDD: Seagate 1.5TB ST31500341AS $280.70
OS: Windows XP Pro OEM $180

Total:
$2,039.46AUD

Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated!

 

[lt_shiro]

Their is no reason to get XP anymore and stay away from those 1.5 TB. Alot of people have had issues with them. Better to get WD6400AAKS 640GB Hard Drives. Very quiet hard drive, only two platters and
fast transfer rate...

 

[Pyrogenic]

Their is no reason to get XP anymore and stay away from those 1.5 TB. Alot of people have had issues with them. Better to get WD6400AAKS 640GB Hard Drives. Very quiet hard drive, only two platters and
fast transfer rate...

Hey, thanks for your reply!

I agree that XP is on it's last legs. The problem is that the DAW software I use is not compatible with Vista64. I'll upgrade when the 64bit version comes out.

I've been using a 1.5TB Seagate for a few months now with no issues. Can you point me to some info about people having problems with them?

The thing is that I need about 2.4TB of storage and I don't really want run 4 HDDs due to extra the extra noise and heat they generate. I backup my important files to an external drive regularly, so I'm not too worried about this choice.

Is there anything else you think I can improve on?

 

[lt_shiro]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16822148337

 

[Pyrogenic]

Wow! Thanks for the heads up. Sadly, the HDD has already been ordered (my 2nd 1.5TB Seagate). I'll have to hope for the best and backup more often.

 

[Dangman]

The problems with the Seagate 1.5TB drives were mostly related to a few versions of the Seagate 1.5TB that was easily remedied with a firemware update:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1368178

Also, as a bit of anecdotal evidence, just bought a Seagate 1.5TB myself and have had no problems with it at all.

And finally a critique of your parts:
- If the Corsair 750TX, PC P&C 750W or BFG ES-800 is in the same price range as that Zalman PSU, get those PSUs instead.
- Check out these other motherboards instead:
Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L Intel P43 Motherboard - $85
MSI Neo3-F Intel P43 Motherboard - $85
MSI P45 Neo3-FR Intel P45 Motherboard - $110
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R Intel P45 Motherboard - $115
Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 Motherboard - $130
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P Intel P45 Motherboard - $137
DFI Lanparty DK X38-T2R Intel X38 Motherboard - $150
Asus P5E Deluxe Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
DFI Lanparty DK X48-T2R Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
Gigabyte GA-EX48-DS4 Intel X48 Motherboard - $225

Just to help you out: All of these motherboards have PCI-E 2.0 which may be useful for future GPU upgrades. If you don't need RAID, more than 6 SATA ports and only need semi-decent overclocking, check out the DS3L. If you need 8 SATA ports, RAID, 4 PCI slots, and legacy ports, then get the Neo3-Fr. If you need 8 SATA ports but want RAID, firewire, a second PCI-E x16 port, a second gigabit port, support for 16GB of RAM, optional eSATA, and excellent overclocks, then get the UD3R. If you like the UD3R but want a second PCI-E x16 slot and x8/x8 Crossfire support, then get the UD3P. If you like the UD3P but want an onboard pre-installed fast booting Linux setup and don't need a second gigabit port, then get the Asus P5Q Pro. If you want a motherboard with excellent overclocking capabilities above all else (feature wise), go with the UD3P. If you want Crossfire with full x16/x16 bandwidth, get the Lanparty DK X38. If you have cash to burn, need x16/x16 Crossfire, and don't give a absolute damn about getting the most value for your money, get the Asus, DFI, or Gigabyte X48 motherboards. Do note that the Asus website can be slow sometimes.

- Get the E8400 instead. The E8500 is only 166Mhz faster than the E8400 and that small increase in clock speed is NOT worth any extra cash over the E8400.

- What Australian sites will you be buying from?

- Don't bother with a second video card unless you're gaming on a 24"+ monitor at 1920x1200.

 

[Pyrogenic]

Thank you for such a detailed response!

The problems with the Seagate 1.5TB drives were mostly related to a few versions of the Seagate 1.5TB that was easily remedied with a firemware update:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1368178

Also, as a bit of anecdotal evidence, just bought a Seagate 1.5TB myself and have had no problems with it at all.

I've had a 1.5TB drive for a while now and haven't had any issues either. If I do have a problem, flashing firmware is really no hassle. Thanks for putting my mind at ease.

And finally a critique of your parts:
- If the Corsair 750TX, PC P&C 750W or BFG ES-800 is in the same price range as that Zalman PSU, get those PSUs instead.

So far I've only been able to find an AU seller for Corsair 750TX (it's about $10AU cheaper than the Zalman). Is there any particular reason why I should not go with the Zalman? According to these reviews...

Zalman: < http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=592&type=expert&pid=8 >
Corsair: < http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=474&type=expert&pid=6 >

The Zalman is slightly more energy efficient and generates less noise. I'm willing to pay the extra $10 for those benefits.

- Check out these other motherboards instead:
Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L Intel P43 Motherboard - $85
MSI Neo3-F Intel P43 Motherboard - $85
MSI P45 Neo3-FR Intel P45 Motherboard - $110
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R Intel P45 Motherboard - $115
Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 Motherboard - $130
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P Intel P45 Motherboard - $137
DFI Lanparty DK X38-T2R Intel X38 Motherboard - $150
Asus P5E Deluxe Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
DFI Lanparty DK X48-T2R Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
Gigabyte GA-EX48-DS4 Intel X48 Motherboard - $225

Just to help you out: All of these motherboards have PCI-E 2.0 which may be useful for future GPU upgrades. If you don't need RAID, more than 6 SATA ports and only need semi-decent overclocking, check out the DS3L. If you need 8 SATA ports, RAID, 4 PCI slots, and legacy ports, then get the Neo3-Fr. If you need 8 SATA ports but want RAID, firewire, a second PCI-E x16 port, a second gigabit port, support for 16GB of RAM, optional eSATA, and excellent overclocks, then get the UD3R. If you like the UD3R but want a second PCI-E x16 slot and x8/x8 Crossfire support, then get the UD3P. If you like the UD3P but want an onboard pre-installed fast booting Linux setup and don't need a second gigabit port, then get the Asus P5Q Pro. If you want a motherboard with excellent overclocking capabilities above all else (feature wise), go with the UD3P. If you want Crossfire with full x16/x16 bandwidth, get the Lanparty DK X38. If you have cash to burn, need x16/x16 Crossfire, and don't give a absolute damn about getting the most value for your money, get the Asus, DFI, or Gigabyte X48 motherboards. Do note that the Asus website can be slow sometimes.

Thanks HEAPS for putting me onto the Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P. It's cheaper than the MSI and according to < http://hothardware.com/Articles/Gigabyte-GAEP45UD3P-Ultra-Durable-3-Motherboard/?page=10 > it performs better too! This was really helpful!

- Get the E8400 instead. The E8500 is only 166Mhz faster than the E8400 and that small increase in clock speed is NOT worth any extra cash over the E8400.

The E8400 is only about $16 cheaper than the E8500. I think the extra money is worth it.

- What Australian sites will you be buying from?

These are the best prices I could find online for Australian sellers. I'll probably end up just buying from 2 or 3 of them so I can pick it all up in person. I usually buy from ARC and don't have much experience with the other sellers.

Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 $295.00 http://www.itsky.com.au
Zalman ZM750-HP $206.95 http://www.itsky.com.au
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P $212.14 http://www.ozdirect.com
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 $275.00 http://www.ccpu.com.au
OCZ Vendetta 2 $61.00 http://www.itsky.com.au
Scythe S-FLEX 120mm Fan 800rpm SFF21D $27 http://www.i-tech.com.au
Patriot Viper 4GB PVS24G6400LLK $115 http://www.i-tech.com.au
Gigabyte ATI HD4850 512MB $256.00 http://www.arc.com.au
Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Rev. 2 (Passive) $45.30 http://www.mwave.com.au
Pioneer DVR-212 OEM $37.00 http://www.arc.com.au
Seagate 1.5TB ST31500341AS $280.70 http://www.arc.com.au
Windows XP Pro OEM $180 http://www.ccpu.com.au

- Don't bother with a second video card unless you're gaming on a 24"+ monitor at 1920x1200.

I won't be getting a 2nd video card for at least another year. I'll keep this in mind though.

 

[Dangman]

So far I've only been able to find an AU seller for Corsair 750TX (it's about $10AU cheaper than the Zalman). Is there any particular reason why I should not go with the Zalman? According to these reviews...

Zalman: < http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=592&type=expert&pid=8 >
Corsair: < http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=474&type=expert&pid=6 >

The Zalman is slightly more energy efficient and generates less noise. I'm willing to pay the extra $10 for those benefits.

Ahh thought that particular Zalman was built by FSP, not Seasonic as that review states. Hence why I recommended against going with it. But since it's a Seasonic, no worries. Stick with it if you want.

The E8400 is only about $16 cheaper than the E8500. I think the extra money is worth it.

Meh. Personally I don't think an extra $16 is worth the less than 1% performance increase.

 

[Pyrogenic]

Meh. Personally I don't think an extra $16 is worth the less than 1% performance increase.

Fair call. It's unlikely that there would be a perceivable difference in most situations. However the extra MHz it could mean the difference between having 1 or 2 extra plugins running with out having to increase my audio interface's latency. Obviously I'm speculating, but if this is true then it's worth the extra $16.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[Pyrogenic]

What do you think of going with a Palit ATI HD4850 512MB instead of the Gigabyte ATI HD4850 512MB board? The Palit is cheaper and the performance is almost identical.

 

[Dangman]

What do you think of going with a Palit ATI HD4850 512MB instead of the Gigabyte ATI HD4850 512MB board? The Palit is cheaper and the performance is almost identical.

If it's cheaper and identical performance, go for the Palit.

 

[tiraides]

Check the warranty and reviews on the Palit card. If it's similar to or better than the Gigabyte card, then go for it.

 

[Pyrogenic]

Ahh, the Gigabyte card has a 3year RTB warranty and the Palit only has a 2-year RTB warranty. The thing is, installing the Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Rev. 2 may end up voiding my warranty anyway. I suppose if there was a problem I could just put the stock cooling back on though. It could be problematic when removing the heatsinks though. What do you think?

 

[Dangman]

Ahh, the Gigabyte card has a 3year RTB warranty and the Palit only has a 2-year RTB warranty. The thing is, installing the Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Rev. 2 may end up voiding my warranty anyway. I suppose if there was a problem I could just put the stock cooling back on though. It could be problematic when removing the heatsinks though. What do you think?

All of the ATI manufacturers I know of will void your warranty if they find out that the HSF has been tampered with. It's only XFX, BFG and eVGA that supports replacing the HSF. While many have said just put the stock HSF back on when problems occur, I haven't actually seen, met, or heard of anyone actually getting away with it. Then again, it would be kind of stupid for a person to brag that they pulled a fast one on the video card manufacturer in an online forum.

Anyway back to your problem: You could always see which HD4850 card has a good enough cooling to the point that you wouldn't need to buy the Accelero S1

 

[Pyrogenic]

All of the ATI manufacturers I know of will void your warranty if they find out that the HSF has been tampered with. It's only XFX, BFG and eVGA that supports replacing the HSF. While many have said just put the stock HSF back on when problems occur, I haven't actually seen, met, or heard of anyone actually getting away with it. Then again, it would be kind of stupid for a person to brag that they pulled a fast one on the video card manufacturer in an online forum.

Anyway back to your problem: You could always see which HD4850 card has a good enough cooling to the point that you wouldn't need to buy the Accelero S1

All good points. The reason I want to use the Accelero is that it's a passive cooler so it won't generate extra noise. I can't seem to find a manufacturer who supplies this kind of solution within my budget so I'll risk it with the Palit.

 

[Mithent]

Just a note from when I attempted to use a (factory-fitted) passively-cooled Radeon 9800 Pro - you do have to be careful when attempting to passively-cool higher-end cards, and probably need good case ventilation. My 9800 Pro was constantly overheating under load and crashing. It seems the Cosmos 1000 has plenty of fans, so hopefully it will be okay.

 

[engiNURD]

I won't be getting a 2nd video card for at least another year. I'll keep this in mind though.

Even then, you might be better off selling your card and putting that money towards a newer gen card instead of going Crossfire.

 

[Pyrogenic]

Just a note from when I attempted to use a (factory-fitted) passively-cooled Radeon 9800 Pro - you do have to be careful when attempting to passively-cool higher-end cards, and probably need good case ventilation. My 9800 Pro was constantly overheating under load and crashing. It seems the Cosmos 1000 has plenty of fans, so hopefully it will be okay.

Yeah, really good point. I looked at some reviews of the Accelero's passive performance and under load the temperatures just got too high. I think I'll still go with the Accelero over the competition (like the Thermalright HR-03-GT) but I'll strap a Scythe S-FLEX 120mm Fan to it to make sure it doesn't get too hot.

Even then, you might be better off selling your card and putting that money towards a newer gen card instead of going Crossfire.

You're probably right. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it .