please explain display attributes i.e. Refresh Rate vs. Response Time

[indokyne]

Hey all - looking at purchasing a "quality" display.
22+ inches; 1920 resolution (1080 vs 1200 doesn't matter).
This display would be 99% for gaming.

I typically go and find the most screen real estate at the lowest price with 'acceptable' specifications.
Before, I'd just look at response time and contrast ratio. I never really paid attention to panel type or refresh rate.

I'm currently using a 28" Hanns-G which is great for it's size but I know it's lacking in color representation among other things.

Kinda wish [H] had an FAQ sticky for LCD's but then again if you're [H], you prolly don't need no stinkin FAQ.
Anyways, my main questions are -

Panel type - what to get and why?

Refresh Rate - why is it important? 60Hz is the standard correct? What does 120Hz do that is advantageous? What are the downsides? How does it relate to response time?

Any other notables that I should be aware of during my search?

 

[JaguarSKX]

Click the following link for LCD tech specifications...

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/specs.htm

 

[silent-circuit]

For your purposes I'd probably just stick with the HannsG.
Any appreciable step up in image quality would leave you with a $300 22" LCD or a $500 24" LCD,

Your HannsG is a TN panel, which is why its viewing angles and color reproduction are somewhat poor. An IPS based panel will give you better colors and viewing angles (and likely black levels), but this is at the cost of input lag (how long between when you move the mouse and something happens on screen) and response time (how long it takes the panel itself to change from one image to another; if it takes too long ghosting results).

Refresh rate isn't really an issue with LCDs since they don't flicker at lower refresh rates like CRTs do. 60Hz is plenty. 120Hz is only useful if you're going to use a 3D system like Nvidia's 3DVision. I wouldn't worry about it at this point, since so far as I know the only true 120Hz LCD monitors at this point are all TN panels and overpriced for what they are.

Read up at that TFTCentral link above. It's very helpful in understanding the advantages and disadvantages of the various panel types.

 

[indokyne]

Click the following link for LCD tech specifications...

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/specs.htm

thanks

For your purposes I'd probably just stick with the HannsG.
Any appreciable step up in image quality would leave you with a $300 22" LCD or a $500 24" LCD,

Your HannsG is a TN panel, which is why its viewing angles and color reproduction are somewhat poor. An IPS based panel will give you better colors and viewing angles (and likely black levels), but this is at the cost of input lag (how long between when you move the mouse and something happens on screen) and response time (how long it takes the panel itself to change from one image to another; if it takes too long ghosting results).

Refresh rate isn't really an issue with LCDs since they don't flicker at lower refresh rates like CRTs do. 60Hz is plenty. 120Hz is only useful if you're going to use a 3D system like Nvidia's 3DVision. I wouldn't worry about it at this point, since so far as I know the only true 120Hz LCD monitors at this point are all TN panels and overpriced for what they are.

Read up at that TFTCentral link above. It's very helpful in understanding the advantages and disadvantages of the various panel types.

appreciate the info circuit. Especially the refresh rate and panel info. Sounds like the 28" Hanns G should hold me over for at least another year.

 

[Ritorix]

120hz monitors are sexy as hell for gaming and definitely a bigger deal than suggested above, but they do have a big price premium over 60hz.

There is a slight benefit in response time from frame transmission (buffer to LCD), but you are only talking 8ms. 16.6ms@60hz, half that at 120. Also depends what kind of games you run and the framerates you get. Details @ http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3601

 

[Sathsayin]

Refresh rate isn't really an issue with LCDs since they don't flicker at lower refresh rates like CRTs do. 60Hz is plenty. 120Hz is only useful if you're going to use a 3D system like Nvidia's 3DVision. I wouldn't worry about it at this point, since so far as I know the only true 120Hz LCD monitors at this point are all TN panels and overpriced for what they are.

With that being said... 60hz bieng plenty is subjective. Not becasue it isn't smooth. It is its about as smooth as 85hz on a regular crt screen which is where confusion comes into play. Its as smooth as 85 hz on a crt but you can only squeeze 60 fps in there... Now some people don't mind that 60hz (60fps) is as smooth as 85hz crt.... as they are only looking for the smootheness and can't tell the diffrence. but the thing is that 25fps is being lost and for some people like me.... I want those 25 fps back.... I can feel the diffrence. I don't want to be able to run 60hz just for smoothness. I want 85 true fps. flickering has not got nothing to do with the everything in the 120hz/60hz battle. I know that people can see the diffrence it's not just me. Some people I think don't understand the arguement. For the most part it's has nothing to do with the smootheness for some people.

I go on to say true 120hz.... is 120 fps now a TV is being delivered a 60 fps and doubling the frames..... so the 120 hz it delivers is a true 120hz from a smoothness point of view. it truly is 120fps but it is copied fps so therefore not really 120 fps from the video card. and it makes for input lag. (or basicly the frame at the second you would have moved your mouse on a true 120hz screen isnt there... its being doubled and proccessed so you have to wait to the next available frame in the original 60hz(60fps)....

So techically if all your looking for is smoothness 120hz lcd are fine.... but true 120hz lcd's are excellent as they have enought bandwidth and a good enough controller to process 120fps at 120hz. Thus less input lag and like a normal lcd.... TN is a problem but for some like me..... A good TN. Is worth the exchange as I can't afford a 120hz tn nor would I buy one. I'm waiting for a better tech. But for now 60hz Tn is all I can afford so therefore I oc my controller to 73hz native using powerstrip.

 

[Cycloner]

I go on to say true 120hz.... is 120 fps now a TV is being delivered a 60 fps and doubling the frames..... so the 120 hz it delivers is a true 120hz from a smoothness point of view. it truly is 120fps but it is copied fps so therefore not really 120 fps from the video card. and it makes for input lag. (or basicly the frame at the second you would have moved your mouse on a true 120hz screen isnt there... its being doubled and proccessed so you have to wait to the next available frame in the original 60hz(60fps)....

So your saying one would be better of getting a 120hz tv instead of a 240hz one...hmm that's something to concider. Smooth movie playback or fast response in console games...

 

[kllrnohj]

So your saying one would be better of getting a 120hz tv instead of a 240hz one...hmm that's something to concider. Smooth movie playback or fast response in console games...

No, 120hz TVs don't use 120hz panels, they still have a 60hz panel. TVs advertised as being 120hz and 240hz really just use engineering tricks to convert 24, 30, and 60 hz inputs into a 60hz output. The processing is 120hz or 240hz, not the display.

 

[silent-circuit]

No, 120hz TVs don't use 120hz panels, they still have a 60hz panel. TVs advertised as being 120hz and 240hz really just use engineering tricks to convert 24, 30, and 60 hz inputs into a 60hz output. The processing is 120hz or 240hz, not the display.

Not all of them. Some take a 60Hz signal, interpolate, and output at 120Hz with half the frames being "guessed" by the interpolation algorithm. They're 120Hz panels, but they won't take a 120Hz signal (so they won't work for shutter based 3D, etc).

 

[sethk]

No, 120hz TVs don't use 120hz panels, they still have a 60hz panel. TVs advertised as being 120hz and 240hz really just use engineering tricks to convert 24, 30, and 60 hz inputs into a 60hz output. The processing is 120hz or 240hz, not the display.

Man - this is just patently wrong. 120hz TVs have 120hz panels. They don't have the input electronics to accept a 120hz signal from a computer or HDMI 1.4 device, but the panel itself is capable of displaying a discrete 120 frames per second - that's the definition of a 120hz panel. Sadly they don't receive 120hz discrete input, so they have to manufacture 50% of the frames in interpolated mode, or just repeat the signal for the extra frames. Either way the panel driver is refreshing at 120fps and can display 120 different frames per second.

 

[Cycloner]

Then this 60hz vrs 120hz vrs 240hz thing won't effect game response for tvs? Even if it did I doubt it would be that noticeable .

 

[silent-circuit]

Then this 60hz vrs 120hz vrs 240hz thing won't effect game response for tvs? Even if it did I doubt it would be that noticeable .

It matters a lot in some cases; early 120Hz TV models (and I think some current low end models) offered no way to turn off the interpolation, which introduced serious input lag. Higher end models did it faster so the lag was negligible, and most offered a game mode which turned off the processing and just doubled frames from a 60Hz source (or clocked the panel down the 60Hz native).

 

[sethk]

Interpolation is what causes lag (different marketing names like Motionflow, etc) not the 120hz.

If you can turn off interpolation you still get less judder in movie mode, and possibly less lag in game mode. Do some research into input lag on a particular model before you buy, as there are several 120hz TVs with less than 16ms lag in game mode, which is a respectable threshold for even the most input lag sensitive players. Some other popular models with 120hz have a LOT of input lag even in the best gaming mode.