Players protest Epic's Metro Exodus

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by fightingfi, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. fightingfi

    fightingfi Look at Me! I need the attention.

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    Players protest Epic's Metro Exodus exclusive by review-bombing the series on Steam


    By Andy Chalk 17 hours ago

    Gamers unhappy with Epic's exclusive on Metro Exodus are taking their frustrations out elsewhere.

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    The decision to make Metro Exodus an Epic Games Store exclusive, less than three weeks before its scheduled release date, came as a tremendous surprise, especially since it had been available for preorder on Steam for months prior to the announcement. The game is actually $10 cheaper on Epic for US customers, attributed by Deep Silver CEO Klemens Kundratitz to the store's "generous revenue terms," but that discount did not mollify gamers unhappy with the move to a different storefront.

    User reviews can't be posted to the Metro Exodus page on Steam, of course, and so gamers who feel wronged are turning their attention to where they can inflict pain: its Steam-based predecessors, Metro 2033 Redux and Metro: Last Light Redux. Both pages have been heavily review-bombed over the last couple of days, and are now showing "mostly negative" recent reviews—although their overall review ratings remains "very positive."

    Most of the negative reviews make no pretense about what's really behind them: They acknowledge that 2033 and Last Light are good games, but express displeasure with Epic's exclusivity. Threats of piracy in place of a planned purchase are also common, and creative ascii art, with Epic Games, Deep Silver, and/or other relevant parties inserted between certain raised digits, also appears popular.

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    The numbers are not small: Metro 2033 has received 891 bad reviews over January 28-30, while Last Light got 863. By way of comparison, 2033 has 3391 total negative reviews over its lifetime, including those of the last three days, while Last Light has 2457 negative reviews in total. That's over a span of more than four years: The Redux versions of 2033 and Last Light were released simultaneously in August 2014.

    It's not the first time that negative reviews have been employed to protest something external to a game, but it's unusual because in this case the tactic comes in response to something that's not even happening on Steam. That's significant, because despite Epic's recent success with its storefront, Steam remains far and away the dominant digital marketplace for PC gaming. As more games are being sold off of Steam—Battle.net, Bethesda, Origin, and so forth—Steam's popularity could turn it into a dumping ground for gamer discontent. (Both Metro games are also available on GOG, but neither show any evidence of a similar backlash.)

    The situation is also ironic. The Epic Games Store faces some fair criticism for lacking a number of very basic features, including user reviews: Epic founder Tim Sweeney said in December that they're coming but will be an opt-in option for developers, "because review bombing and other gaming-the-system is a real problem."
     
  2. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    The fact that they made "review bombing" a thing to complain about means it's working. It's the best way for consumers to make their voices heard. Try communicating any other way and you'll either be ignored or banned. If developers and publishers were honest and put out good product then they shouldn't be afraid of internet boogeymen.
     
  3. delita

    delita [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sounds like we need to send SkankHunt42 after Deep Silver and Epic. Such a good South Park episode.

    But seriously, a lot of people seem to be pretty unhappy with this deal. I for one, refuse to buy this game because the Epic store is underwhelming feature wise, and suffered a serious data breach last year. Huge bummer - I'd like to think all of the negative feedback and criticism will help in future situations like this, but doubtful anything will be changed as far as this game is concerned.
     
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  4. Special.K

    Special.K [H]Lite

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    I wouldn't say I'm protesting, but I'm not installing epics store for any game.

    A game that I was interested in went from a possibly buy to not gonna buy. Maybe if someday it ends up on steam cheap I'll grab it but as of now they have lost out on a possible buy from me.

    Hopefully the extra money per sale makes up for lost sales
     
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  5. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Saw on their twitter account that they will be putting it on steam in Feb. 2020. That's kind of ridiculous.

    Im right there with you though. I don't want another store front app on my computer. Especially one provided by Epic. Looks like its a lose/win, they don't get a sale and I get to keep my money.
     
  6. Brokennails

    Brokennails [H]ard|Gawd

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    Was going to buy it but now will wait until released on Steam.
     
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  7. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    And this is why I mentioned multiple times why Steam reviews are worthless. A good work around for this would be to ban people who intentionally misuse the review feature. Same for advertisements for another product in the review section. Review the game, or get banned from submitting reviews on Steam. Makes it hard to take the "user reviews" feature seriously and just hurts any trust in the feature/platform. I'd love to see Valve step up and remove the garbage games and poor quality reviews so it stops resembling the asshole of PC gaming.

    Its childish. The best way to sway their mind is to not buy their product. Money talks. Throwing a temper tantrum and tarnishing Valve's platform reputation isn't going to help. Perhaps that is the biggest irony of it. I used to pay attention to user reviews but the quality has gone downhill. Review bomb because the developers are a certain ethnicity, review bomb for another product by a different studio, low quality "gg I died will buy again" reviews. Practically worthless these days sadly.
     
  8. exlink

    exlink [H]ardness Supreme

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    This is pathetic.
     
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  9. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I don't know anyone who uses Steam reviews as the basis of their purchase decision...so in the end this protest has no real effect...
     
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  10. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It is widely talked about to the point where the developer has to address it one way or another. I think it has the desired effect in that sense.

    And I might not read individual reviews on steam, but if a game has a "mixed" or "mostly negative" rating on steam, it makes me think "I better look into this before buying this game" And there were numerous occasions where those ratings helped me steer clear of potential rubbish.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
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  11. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    While I don't agree with review bombing "innocent" titles, I think it's true that it's too easy for the publishers / devs to ignore their core fans these days.
     
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  12. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    Let's agree to disagree. I don't see any of those types of reviews when I'm looking at them, but I'm sure you'll find them if you go looking for them. But again, my stance is that customers have the right to criticize games however they want. When you produce and sell a product, especially for entertainment, you should be ready to deal with both the good and bad reactions from people because you're not going to please everyone.
    I have made many purchasing decisions based on Steam reviews and I have never been burned by it. That includes buying a title or two that had an aggregate negative score because I was able to sift through complaints in the reviews to find out that they were not relevant to my concerns.
     
  13. Litfod

    Litfod [H]ard|Gawd

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    I know it's not possible (largely because they wouldn't admit it) but it would be interesting to know how many of the review bombers or people who are planning to boycott it or who are otherwise upset about it end up buying it (on the Epic store) regardless. Quite a lot, I'd bet, especially if it gets positive reviews and word of mouth.
     
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  14. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

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    The funny thing is the people that actually care enough about the game to boycott it are probably going to buy it anyways. And most of the people that are throwing a fit were probably never going to buy it in the first place.
     
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  15. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That doesn't make any sense because they're not reviewing the product in question. That is the whole point of this thread.

    A quick viewing for others game I own and I can find plenty of low quality reviews that are absolutely not helpful. Here are some copy pasted ones:

    "Some hardbody no life game"
    "lovely"
    "Hij is goed!!"
    " Yes."
    "no"
    "gowno"
    "they are taking charleeeeeeeeeeey"

    Yeah, that gives real confidence in the Valve's platform. Checked the Metro 2033 / LL ones and they're being trashed with irrelevant nonsense. Lots of swear words and whatnot. A bunch complain about Epics launcher. And what does that have to do with Metro 2033? Absolutely nothing. The point of checking the reviews is to see how that product stacks up. Yet the recent reviews talk about other products, or even free services from an entirely different company that have zero relevance to the product at hand.

    This has been going on for a while now and anyone with any sense immediately discounts the user review section these days.

    While I'm at it, can Valve give you a way to disable fucking achievement pop ups?! Very annoying and they haven't offered a fix in about a decade. Or maybe there is one tucked away but I cannot find it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
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  16. Kinsaras

    Kinsaras 2[H]4U

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    Epic takes 12% of their cut.
    Steam takes 30% of their cut.

    Think if it was your paycheck? It's not hard math. Biggest difference is the icon you click on to open it.

    Plus buyers save an extra $10 in Epic's store.

    I hope when it does come to Steam they'll pull a Ubisoft and make you use their launcher anyways. I'm evil like that.
     
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  17. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

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    The funny thing is they're saying Epic is taking away their right to free speech by not having user reviews as a feature. Then purposely tarnishing Steam's review system as a response.
    Even funnier are the people that pre-ordered on Steam after the announcement using the same reason.


    The only time I use Steam reviews is when I'm looking at older games or cheap small indy games. There are plenty of review sites that have user reviews and they typically have much more useful reviews. It's a minor inconvenience at the most.

    I didn't buy Fallout 76 because of reviews and it wasn't on Steam. I'm not going to have any problems avoiding bad games just because the store doesn't have user reviews.
     
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  18. Keller1

    Keller1 n00b

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    Yeah this is exactly why Epic doesn't have a review system - to avoid petty crap like this.. And they've also been on a roll with everything recently. In fact, Unreal is pretty much the best off-the-shelf engine you can use nowadays.


    There are lots of valid reasons like epic's platform still being in it's infancy and not having modern conveniences like Cloud Saves or Achivements or whatever,
    Or another concern would be being owned by tencent ( even though they're very hands off when it comes to owning shit )


    But throwing a petty tantrum like this over what is at most a moderate inconvenience (Let's be real, it's not like buying and installing metro isn't under 20 clicks away) that could potentially has a real impact on the industry ( Less of your money goes to the middleman, who, by the way, hasn't done much to deserve it. ) is at best, childish.
     
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  19. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    a lot of sites are removing their review section because they know it can be abused...Netflix removed reviews last year...the fact that people are downvoting 2 amazing games like Metro 2033 and Last Light shows the pettiness of people...those games have nothing to do with the current situation with Exodus
     
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  20. Denpepe

    Denpepe Gawd

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    The devs for exodus should have just upped the price on steam to match the amount they make on the epic store after the pre-sale ended to actually make it a price war iso an exclusivity war.

    Also i just read that epic store is going to add a review system, but it is opt in by the developpers

     
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  21. wizzi01

    wizzi01 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Didn't the developer use steam to advertise the hell out of the game only to say sorry steam? It is a scummy move on the developers part.
     
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  22. horrorshow

    horrorshow [H]ardness Supreme

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    This. I'm behind Epic 110%.

    As much as I hate having additional launchers, it's inevitable. (I think I'm up to five??)

    Steam taking 30% is ridiculous and totally unfair to the developers.
     
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  23. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    According to another [H] that isn't the case

    "Metro Exodus on Steam: $60
    Metro Exodus on Epic: $50

    Steam is 30% only for the first $10 million of sales, which is like a drop in the lake of the total sales for a game like Metro Exodus. After $10 million in sales, Steam then charges 25%. Then, at $50 million in sales, Steam charges 20%.


    By the time 4A and Deep Silver sell 1 million copies of Metro Exodus on Steam, they will have made $1 million more than they would from selling 1 million copies through the Epic store:

    1 million $50 copies sold through Epic = $50,000,000 total = $44,000,000 to 4A and Deep Silver

    1 million $60 copies sold through Steam = $60,000,000 total = 7,000,000 (30%) + 30,000,000 (25%) + 8,000,000 (20%) = $45,000,000 to 4A and Deep Silver


    4 million Epic sales of a $50 game = $200,000,000 total revenue, with $44 per copy going to the publisher = $176,000,000 going to 4A and Deep Silver


    4 million Steam sales of a $60 game = $240,000,000 total revenue, with:

    $10 million with a fee of 30% = $42 per copy going to the publisher = $7,000,000 going to 4A and Deep Silver

    $40 million with a fee of 25% = $45 per copy going to the publisher = $30,000,000 going to 4A and Deep Silver

    $190 million with a fee of 20% = $48 per copy going to the publisher = $152,000,000 going to 4A and Deep Silver

    For a total of $189,000,000 going to 4A and Deep Silver


    $176 million (from Epic) < $189 million (from Steam)


    4A and Deep Silver will actually make more money selling ME on Steam than they will on Epic. Full break-down here: https://hardforum.com/threads/metro-exodus-is-an-epic-store-exclusive.1976314/page-6#post-1044061477

    Metro Exodus is an exclusive on Epic not because that's where it will make more money from sales, but because Epic are paying Deep Silver a lump sum to make ME exclusive to Epic for a year in a bid to boost Epic's customer base".


    I believe Epic cut a deal with Deep Silver for notoriety.
     
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  24. Keller1

    Keller1 n00b

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    Ah, the old adage, any publicity's good publicity.

    Could very well be the case actaully. cause right now if you search for epic or metro or anything of the sort, it's THE CONTROVERSY.

    And that could very well translate into sales.
     
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  25. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I believe that is the whole reason why 4A / Deep Silver & Epic made this deal, not for total sales but for publicity to launch Epic's store front & challenge Steam, so to heck with steam customers, their idea is that they can make a whole new customer base with Epic.

    Also, Metro is only one of Three titles that currently support Ray Tracing, and I am sure that was brought up in the deal too.
     
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  26. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

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    sometimes i will if it's a well written review(yes there are actually some of those out there, lol) for indie games but they're completely worthless on AAA titles.

    i don't really have a problem with the epic launcher, it's literally 2 clicks to get to my game library.. open launcher, click library done.. boycotting it just because it's on epic and not on steam is just childish bs in my opinion. either way i have no skin in this one because i don't care about the metro series one bit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  27. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This is supposed to challenge steam? It made me reserve the ticket to digital oblivion for the epic store, the windows store had been feeling alone in there.
     
  28. schoolslave

    schoolslave Gawd

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    The only one behind Epic is Tencent with 40%+ ownership.

    Epic's launcher is complete garbage -- millions of accounts already breached/leaked, blatant disregard for GDPR, and always-online DRM (no offline mode).
    Fuck them.
     
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  29. rudy

    rudy [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Ya, probably the vast majority of them. Humans are innately selfish creatures they will attempt to get whatever they want for whatever minor selfish reason. This is especially true if they can try to force people very easily. So they will go and claim to not buy the game or review bomb it, but when it releases , since they are selfish and want to play it they will just go buy it. Once you learn the true ability to walk away you very quickly realize how many people are completely full of shit and come begging back. As long as metro sticks to their guns they stand to make a lot of money off of the new fortnite player base.
     
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  30. tunatime

    tunatime 2[H]4U

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    Good I hope they lose thert but by doing this and sell next to nothing.
    I'll pick it up for under $20 when it comes to steam