Pixel 2 and Pixel XL 2 Will Both Ditch the Headphone Jack

[NoOther]

Makes fun of the iPhone for removing it on their phones during the release of the Google Pixel.

Makes fun of itself for removing it on their Google Pixel 2?

Did Google make fun of it themselves, or was that just supporters of Android? I do have to say it still seems pretty ironic, specifically because one of the reasons I went with Pixel XL is because of the headphone jack. I even bought better earbuds because of the quality.

On the other hand, if I am playing devil's advocate here, I can see where they would want to remove it to improve the water resistant features, since that was one of the things customers have commented on the most I believe. Still, I would much rather have the headphone jack myself.

 

[raz-0]

Wireless headphones will NEVER replace a good set of hardwired cans. Google and Apple, you can keep your $800 bricks.

I think the coutner argument to this is that if you care that much, an external dac beats the shit out of those cans hooked up to the cheap internal dac on the other end of a jack.

The thing that shocked me is that the iphone 7 didn't produce a combo battery case/external dac with a jack arranged horizontally along the bottom of the phone. It seemed like a no brainer to me to capture a mildly irritated market.

 

[NickJames]

I think the coutner argument to this is that if you care that much, an external dac beats the shit out of those cans hooked up to the cheap internal dac on the other end of a jack.

The thing that shocked me is that the iphone 7 didn't produce a combo battery case/external dac with a jack arranged horizontally along the bottom of the phone. It seemed like a no brainer to me to capture a mildly irritated market.

I should not have to lug around a 2nd product just because a manufacturer decided to cut corners. I've seen what the new iphone looks like while charging and having headphones plugged in. It's a stupid trend that I hope no one follows.

 

[Gigus Fire]

I should not have to lug around a 2nd product just because a manufacturer decided to cut corners. I've seen what the new iphone looks like while charging and having headphones plugged in. It's a stupid trend that I hope no one follows.

I'm sure if they could, they would eliminate the usb-c port as well and force people to use wireless charging and bluetooth at all times.
It's a lot easier to seal phones for water proofing if there's no ports. It also makes it a lot harder to fix a phone (which means people buying replacements) which is a bonus for sales.

I suspect in a few years, apple will be "brave" yet once again and remove all ports to their phones.

 

[nysmo]

So, you obviously don't care too much about the quality of audio you're hearing

Ok lets just break down what kind of environments people are typically using their cellphones as an audio source with, since I find it downright hysterical that anyone would complain about audio fidelity whilst using their phone as the root of all sound. We'll take the car since that is a common complaint when it comes to missing an aux port. I stream in my car. But guess what I stream from? Spotify. Used to be Google Music, sometimes Slacker or Pandora, but mostly spotify. Now, the bluetooth A2DP streaming protocol operates at about 320kbps I believe. This includes the whole stack, compression, encryption, whatever. Now I'm not sure how much of this space is reserved for that overhead, but we'll say you can probably ink out maybe 240kbps of actual sound data whilst the rest is overhead. But are we ever really getting even 240kbps of pure digital audio data from our source? If we're using spotify chances are you're getting 128kbps streams, unless you have LTE and spotify configured for their high quality stream which I'm not sure what they even advertise this bitrate as. And of course this also assumes that Spotify's bitrate for their own audio sources ties in with the streaming options they have available.

Now, assuming all of those things sync up harmoniously then we can decide what our listening environment is and if it even warrants such concerns as the difference between 100kbps in audio bitrate. Since I dont drive a Bentley and my car actually has some degree of road and wind noise, plus my hearing probably isnt as sensitive as that of a submarine sonar operator, I can safely assume that I most likely cant tell the difference between good audio and "the best" audio while driving down the freeway listening to my tires hum at 80 mph as I pass 18 wheeler trucks. Nor do I have a $4000 car stereo setup to reproduce the audio as lossless as can be.

Now I know some people may store music totally uncompressed, never stream, have really expensive headphones and even more expensive stereos in their private soundproof mancaves, but then I also imagine those same people should probably be storing their audio data on another medium than their cellphone. For everyone else, the question of audio fidelity over a cellphone should really be asked as "who gives a shit?".

 

[NickJames]

Ok lets just break down what kind of environments people are typically using their cellphones as an audio source with, since I find it downright hysterical that anyone would complain about audio fidelity whilst using their phone as the root of all sound. We'll take the car since that is a common complaint when it comes to missing an aux port. I stream in my car. But guess what I stream from? Spotify. Used to be Google Music, sometimes Slacker or Pandora, but mostly spotify. Now, the bluetooth A2DP streaming protocol operates at about 320kbps I believe. This includes the whole stack, compression, encryption, whatever. Now I'm not sure how much of this space is reserved for that overhead, but we'll say you can probably ink out maybe 240kbps of actual sound data whilst the rest is overhead. But are we ever really getting even 240kbps of pure digital audio data from our source? If we're using spotify chances are you're getting 128kbps streams, unless you have LTE and spotify configured for their high quality stream which I'm not sure what they even advertise this bitrate as. And of course this also assumes that Spotify's bitrate for their own audio sources ties in with the streaming options they have available.

Now, assuming all of those things sync up harmoniously then we can decide what our listening environment is and if it even warrants such concerns as the difference between 100kbps in audio bitrate. Since I dont drive a Bentley and my car actually has some degree of road and wind noise, plus my hearing probably isnt as sensitive as that of a submarine sonar operator, I can safely assume that I most likely cant tell the difference between good audio and "the best" audio while driving down the freeway listening to my tires hum at 80 mph as I pass 18 wheeler trucks. Nor do I have a $4000 car stereo setup to reproduce the audio as lossless as can be.

Now I know some people may store music totally uncompressed, never stream, have really expensive headphones and even more expensive stereos in their private soundproof mancaves, but then I also imagine those same people should probably be storing their audio data on another medium than their cellphone. For everyone else, the question of audio fidelity over a cellphone should really be asked as "who gives a shit?".

I don't like having another device to charge, I don't like randomly losing signal (my bluetooth signal cuts out all the time in traffic), and last but not least, I don't like having multiple products, fuck bluetooth. I like being able to use my wired headphones on my phone, my 3DS, my laptop and my Nintendo Switch without needing to pair, sync, download drivers, etc.. whenever I switch between them. Not to mention the convenience of audio splitters to share a source or hook it up to other equipment without going through the tedious pairing/unpairing process. I don't understand how the exclusion of a 3.5mm audio jack is going to be a huge technological advancement. We've had waterproof mp3 players and diving equipment for decades so waterpoofing is still not an excuse for it.

That's my complaints about bluetooth, audio quality is last on my list.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

If your Bluetooth is cutting out in your car then that’s an issue with either your car or your phone. I haven’t had Bluetooth cut out a single time in the past 4+ years in my car. This is across various iPhones an a Galaxy S6.

 

[M76]

If no headphone jack then that means no FM receiver either? As all phones I saw used the headphone cable as an aerial.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

I see Bluetooth cut out all the time in a wide range of instances, and not necessarily just audio devices. It's crap.

I agree that a phone should not be considered a critical listening device. However, how many layers of crap do you want to pile onto that?

You are totally correct if we're talking about streaming services like you mentioned. I don't use them. I store the audio I want to listen to on the device (most of the time). In a pinch, if I want to hear something I didn't cache, then yes, I will stream from Amazon or Apple. I get what you're saying about the environment, but the overall quality still matters. Streaming crap, in a crap environment, with crap protocols and compression over crap headphones is still worse than this situation minus any one instance of crap or more. I use the aux cord in the car, I use over-ear phones when I'm somewhere I can't use my studio monitors, or other decent speakers. This stuff IS in fact noticeable in those situations.

NONE of the above is as bad as satellite radio though. My wife has a free subscription in her car for a year, and while it's handy and easy, it sounds worse that any scenario we've mentioned yet. hehe

 

[Deleted member 83233]

If your Bluetooth is cutting out in your car then that’s an issue with either your car or your phone. I haven’t had Bluetooth cut out a single time in the past 4+ years in my car. This is across various iPhones an a Galaxy S6.

I'm actually quite glad it works for you. Not all of us are that lucky where BT is concerned.

 

[NickJames]

If your Bluetooth is cutting out in your car then that’s an issue with either your car or your phone. I haven’t had Bluetooth cut out a single time in the past 4+ years in my car. This is across various iPhones an a Galaxy S6.

Oh cutting out isn't the only thing, I have actually and I shit you not, my bluetooth has picked up OTHER bluetooth devices and began streaming someone else's music. I don't know how it's even possible but my car has done it. Using a Galaxy S6 as well in a 2014 Mazda 6.

 

[nysmo]

I'm actually quite glad it works for you. Not all of us are that lucky where BT is concerned.

Having functional equipment shouldnt be labeled as "lucky". I too have never once experienced bluetooth drops while streaming music across a variety of phones since the first stereo I got supported A2DP in the last 10 years.

 

[capt_cope]

I see Bluetooth cut out all the time in a wide range of instances, and not necessarily just audio devices. It's crap.

I agree that a phone should not be considered a critical listening device. However, how many layers of crap do you want to pile onto that?

You are totally correct if we're talking about streaming services like you mentioned. I don't use them. I store the audio I want to listen to on the device (most of the time). In a pinch, if I want to hear something I didn't cache, then yes, I will stream from Amazon or Apple. I get what you're saying about the environment, but the overall quality still matters. Streaming crap, in a crap environment, with crap protocols and compression over crap headphones is still worse than this situation minus any one instance of crap or more. I use the aux cord in the car, I use over-ear phones when I'm somewhere I can't use my studio monitors, or other decent speakers. This stuff IS in fact noticeable in those situations.

NONE of the above is as bad as satellite radio though. My wife has a free subscription in her car for a year, and while it's handy and easy, it sounds worse that any scenario we've mentioned yet. hehe

You must have magic ears or an excellent phone. I tried bluetooth vs wired with my nexus 5x, and I can't tell any difference using mp3 files (who's sticking 24/192 flac on a phone?). Wired signal chain went like this: phone -> 1ft 1/8 to RCA cable -> Schiit valhalla -> dt880 (600ohm hence the valhala). Wireless went phone -> cheapass bluetooth reciever ($25 on amazon) -> 1ft rca cables -> schiit valhalla -> dt880.

 

[nysmo]

These same tired arguments about headphone jacks were the one's from people waving their fists at the removal of cd-rom drives from laptops. "But I already have my bootable iso's on CD! I shouldnt have to buy expensive USB drivers to boot from! USB drives have limited write cycles so I'll be having to replace them! I can lose a thumb drive! It could get damaged by an EMP shockwave from a nuclear explosion! I always insert it upsidedown the first try! Someone could steal it and modify the contents without my knowledge! I have a stack of 1000 blank CD's I bought off Newegg 10 years ago that'll go to waste!"

Blah blah blah, some people just resist change.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

Having functional equipment shouldnt be labeled as "lucky". I too have never once experienced bluetooth drops while streaming music across a variety of phones since the first stereo I got supported A2DP in the last 10 years.

No, it shouldn't. I've just seen a lot of very odd behavior, unexplained drops, devices that just refuse to pair in the first place even after clearing out previously cached pairings, etc. I'm not saying it happens all the time, but it does happen, and the more people are running around with Bluetooth devices, I estimate the worse this will become. Just a guess of course on that one.

I've also see Bluetooth work great in some cases, so I'm not denying that it has its uses, or that it's convenient sometimes, or whatever. It's just not my choice for audio delivery when I have a choice, and I personally like having a choice.

 

[NoOther]

Even if you through out the advantages of audio quality, or the propensity of options for wired components, the biggest flaw is still that bluetooth is incredibly insecure.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

These same tired arguments about headphone jacks were the one's from people waving their fists at the removal of cd-rom drives from laptops. "But I already have my bootable iso's on CD! I shouldnt have to buy expensive USB drivers to boot from! USB drives have limited write cycles so I'll be having to replace them! I can lose a thumb drive! It could get damaged by an EMP shockwave from a nuclear explosion! I always insert it upsidedown the first try! Someone could steal it and modify the contents without my knowledge! I have a stack of 1000 blank CD's I bought off Newegg 10 years ago that'll go to waste!"

Blah blah blah, some people just resist change.

You're assuming way too much. I have digital connections to all of the monitors and TVs in my house. I refuse to touch optical media whenever possible. I use FLASH storage almost exclusively. I just don't like a lot of wireless technologies in general. When they improve (which I'm sure they will,) maybe that will change. I run wired connections to any machine that actually matters in my house. Fiber between switches. I can stream games to any room of the house at full speed and relatively low latency. Can't do that on wireless.

I design analog synthesizers, but also like digital audio. I don't think I'm being unreasonable when I prefer one thing over the other. Some older things are better, some newer things are better, and if you can't discern which ones are, and just use blanket statements like "All new things are better, you old people are dumb" then I can't really help you.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

You must have magic ears or an excellent phone. I tried bluetooth vs wired with my nexus 5x, and I can't tell any difference using mp3 files (who's sticking 24/192 flac on a phone?). Wired signal chain went like this: phone -> 1ft 1/8 to RCA cable -> Schiit valhalla -> dt880 (600ohm hence the valhala). Wireless went phone -> cheapass bluetooth reciever ($25 on amazon) -> 1ft rca cables -> schiit valhalla -> dt880.

I'm not saying a fairly ideal setup for A/Bing (such as your example for one) might not work fairly closely. In non-ideal conditions though, there's a lot not to like about Bluetooth. I've heard either some form of compression lowering, or perhaps just dropped information possibly due to non-idea connections, etc. It's just one more layer of crap I'd rather not deal with. Like I said a couple of times above, there are situations where it's very handy, and works just fine. I don't really want to argue about whether something that works for you does or not. If it does, I'm quite honestly happy for you. I'm also not saying under no circumstances will the same work for me either. I'm just saying that based on some of my own personal experiences with it, I'd rather not use it.

Also, since I have excellent headphones that... you guessed it... use an industry standard connector, and cost a decent amount of money, (and are used for a part time profession of mine) that yes, I'd rather use them, than some Bluetooth alternative that I haven't tried, have no history with. I am in no way saying that others can't enjoy some Bluetooth headphones. I'm saying that I don't personally want to buy a phone without a 3.5mm jack. I have my reasons, and my reasons may not apply to you.

Also, for the record, I do have pretty good ears.

 

[Gigus Fire]

These same tired arguments about headphone jacks were the one's from people waving their fists at the removal of cd-rom drives from laptops. "But I already have my bootable iso's on CD! I shouldnt have to buy expensive USB drivers to boot from! USB drives have limited write cycles so I'll be having to replace them! I can lose a thumb drive! It could get damaged by an EMP shockwave from a nuclear explosion! I always insert it upsidedown the first try! Someone could steal it and modify the contents without my knowledge! I have a stack of 1000 blank CD's I bought off Newegg 10 years ago that'll go to waste!"

Blah blah blah, some people just resist change.

....
CDs store data. Usb is quite literally the same thing in a different format. It's a direct replacement. CDs/DVDs/Blurays are still being sold and used to distribute data as they are cheap to distribute and usbs are still more expensive.
3.5mm stereo jack is a connection for audio. USB-C isn't a direct replacement. Are there any headphones that come in a usb-c format directly? Or are these dongles still converting usb-c into a 3.5mm stereo jack? Obviously it's not going away anytime soon.
It was also developed in 1878 and still in use today. That by itself is pretty amazing.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

There are USB-C headphones IIRC. I know they have lightning headphones.

 

[Vermillion]

....
CDs store data. Usb is quite literally the same thing in a different format. It's a direct replacement. CDs/DVDs/Blurays are still being sold and used to distribute data as they are cheap to distribute and usbs are still more expensive.
3.5mm stereo jack is a connection for audio. USB-C isn't a direct replacement. Are there any headphones that come in a usb-c format directly? Or are these dongles still converting usb-c into a 3.5mm stereo jack? Obviously it's not going away anytime soon.
It was also developed in 1878 and still in use today. That by itself is pretty amazing.

Yes there are.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_10?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=usb-c+headphones&sprefix=USB-C+head,aps,120&crid=2WF8886W5IXP4

 

[Deleted member 83233]

There are USB-C headphones IIRC. I know they have lightning headphones.

As soon as one of the brands that I like makes them available, I'd actually not be opposed to picking up a pair for the instances where they were needed. Right now, it doesn't look like there are any available that I'd buy.

 

[Iratus]

Audeze make headphones with lightning cable, they're shit.

I'd be happy (ish) to go wirefree (ish) when Bluetooth can do uncompressed. Until then, fuck off.

My 'main' irritation is that it makes my Bose QC25 headphones I use for (plane)travel and in the office useless. They're expensive and useful enough that not wanting to throw them away doesn't make me an old timer

It also means my UE 11 IEM's are useless, those are literally made for me and so I can't even eBay them. This matters less to me as they were for a subway commute I don't do anymore.

DT770's, useless. My enormously more expensive closed backs, useless (they do work with the iPhone but I've never done it beyond 'lol it works' so less relevant.

I have both Bose Active and Jaybird x2's and Bluetooth can be ok, at the gym (tech issues aside) or maybe the bus but they sound shit, REALLY shit. Bluetooth is horrific for music, if you listen to 128k streams have at it and I'm glad you're happy but we do not need thinner phones, if anything they need to be thicker so we can have better batteries.

To the comment about cost, moot. I used to work for Nokia, I know exactly what the BoM is like for the connector et al, it's irrelevant. Even for Nokia who destroyed themselves in part by focussing too much on BoM. You can make a case for the costs borne from water resistance as that does cost, in engineering and manufacturing terms but it's also 'solved'. The speakers and mic cause easily as many problems.

Lastly, if you think plugging the phone into your car with a cable makes you an old timer or lacking style you're a fucking idiot, or a troll. For references see anyone who cares about sound in a car or in fact owns pretty much any decent car. Bluetooth might be alright for your mom's car when she takes you to soccer practice but most people prefer to charge it in the car and many use it as sat Nav these days anyway, different cable and irrelevant to this topic but it was just asinine.

This is almost entirely about incentives to sell expensive short-lived headphones.

 

[Dk975]

If they want to get rid of the headphone jack, and USB-C headphones become the norm, the smartphone makers should start putting 2 USB-C ports on a phone. That would solve everybody's issue. You could listen to audio while charging the phone, not have to use bluetooth with inferior audio quality or use dongles.

 

[Viper87227]

I guess I'm going to have to buy a new car stereo, since the Bluetooth functionality on mine is broken and I have to use AUX...

Don't be so dramatic...

Just like there is a Lighting to 3.5mm adapter for the iPhone, you can be all but certain the same will apply here. My money is on a USB-C to 3.5mm being included in the box. Even if it's not, they already exist and can be had for under $10 on Amazon. USB-C is natively capable of having certain pins repurposed and thus is already capable of outputting analog audio. The Moto Z is already out in the wild and only has a USB-C jack, and it's just fine.

Everyone seems to think this is to cut costs by not including a DAC, but that's silly. A DAC is still required for the built in speakers. Furthermore, I would be shocked if Google chose to not allow analog audio via the USB-C port. 3.5mm ports are being ditched because they are an old legacy connection that simply isn't necessary anymore. It's extra hardware, and it dictates how thin a phone can be. There's just no reason for it when the industry is moving away from it, and legacy components can operate unaffected with the use of a cheap adapter.

Did you all grab your torch and pitchforks 15-20 years ago when motherboards stopped coming with PS/2 ports? No, you probably sucked it up and either purchased USB peripherals or else purchased some sort of PS/2 adapter or add-on card to deal with it. And it probably didn't take long before it just didn't matter anymore. This will be the same thing. 5 years from now, 3.5mm audio ports won't exist anymore. The high-end audio spectrum will hold onto their quarter inch stereo jack. The mainstream crowd (beats, bose, etc) will be predominantly Bluetooth, with maybe a few USB-C/Lighting devices thrown in (most likely lightning with a USB-C adapter). Anyone left will be stuck using a 3.5mm adapter, and I assure you, it won't be a big deal. Time to move on.

 

[HeavensCloud]

Count me out then. Guess I'll be sticking with my Pixel XL for a long time. Although I would bite if they included two ports.

 

[Uvaman2]

Oh god, you know I am quickly learning is bad enough the cellphone becomes the center of my music life.
Yes its convenient, but its not great.
No I don't have magical ears.
Its just not as good as a good CD.
My BT/Cellphone certainly doesn't pass the K Flay test.

 

[NeoGohan]

Did Google make fun of it themselves, or was that just supporters of Android? I do have to say it still seems pretty ironic, specifically because one of the reasons I went with Pixel XL is because of the headphone jack. I even bought better earbuds because of the quality.

Yep. Here it is from the Pixel launch announcement(link below is where it's shown on the slide about the headphone jack). This is after Apple announced no headphone jack for their iPhones.



Definitely did not come from Android supporters but Google themselves.

 

[1_rick]

Are they really that stingy about saving a small amount of money on an output DAC?

The least stupid explanation I've heard is it's not that, it's the internal volume. Can't make a 2mm iPhone 17 with how thick a headphone jack needs to be, and we all know that since phone reviewers love stupid shit like super-thin phones with tiny little screens and shatter-prone glass backs, that's what the phone companies make.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

I've more or less given up on this battle. I HATE the removal of the jack, but it's becoming obvious that it's where things are going for phones. (or at least phones that I would otherwise prefer to use) I'm not buying shitty bluetooth headphones though, I guess I'll just use the fucking dongle. However, my 6S is still in perfect shape and I don't yet have any other motivations to upgrade, so I don't have to think about it for a little while longer.

 

[1_rick]

pretty soon they'll remove the USB jack as well and require you to use a Google service to get anything off the phone. Want those pictures? Send them to google drive so you can download them to your computer!

Verizone used to actually do that, around the 2003 timeframe: disabled (IIRC) BT file transfer so you had to email pictures to yourself at $0.25 a pop instead, if you wanted them off your phone.

 

[1_rick]

Did you all grab your torch and pitchforks 15-20 years ago when motherboards stopped coming with PS/2 ports?

Given that brand-new motherboards coming out today still have PS/2 jacks, this is a fairly lame rebuttal.

 

[Viper87227]

Given that brand-new motherboards coming out today still have PS/2 jacks, this is a fairly lame rebuttal.

How do you figure? Some motherboards still come with them, but many do not. It's not necessary or desired for most people and that's space that can be better utilized for USB ports or other connections. My point was that for most of us here buying a motherboard, the presence of a PS/2 port is not relevant. It's not a con if it's missing. When motherboards first started ditching them, it might have been, there were a lot more legacy devices still floating on.

The same will happen here. 10 years from now, we'll still see some phones with 3.5mm ports. They will likely be "budget" phones. It won't be long before they don't exist on flagships (just like PS/2 ports are a lot rarer among enthusiast motherboards). Right now, it's seen as a downside. As we get further into the cycle of phones not supporting 3.5mm, and headphones being terminated in USB-C or Lightning, people will stop caring. There was a time when people were really pissed because Apple got rid of the big ass 30 pin connector. After a year or two, no fucks were given.

 

[kac77]

I don't really see it as a problem anymore. A couple of years ago it was a problem. But now there's very little reason not to get rid of it. A) If I'm at home or at work I have more options for output not less. B) When I'm in the car I have a BT radio and before that I had a BT to AUX for the old head unit. C) Even in the case of RF interference (I would figure this to be quite rare) there are options even for that. I think I would consider the complaint a possibility on another site but here?

So let me get this straight... this is us...

But when they take the headphone jack away from a cell phone this is what happens????

Um ok.....

 

[Deleted member 83233]

I don't really see it as a problem anymore. A couple of years ago it was a problem. But now there's very little reason not to get rid of it. A) If I'm at home or at work I have more options for output not less. B) When I'm in the car I have a BT radio and before that I had a BT to AUX for the old head unit. C) Even in the case of RF interference (I would figure this to be quite rare) there are options even for that. I think I would consider the complaint a possibility on another site but here?

So let me get this straight... this is us...

But when they take the headphone jack away from a cell phone this is what happens????

Um ok.....

This is for a few reasons. The standard for this jack (let's not go all the way back to its uses in telephony switching here) comes from the audio industries. It's used on professional, semi-professional, enthusiast, and all the way down to the cheapest of consumer headphones. It was the audio industry that decided to use the jack, and it's become a standard. Those industries are still using it. Show me an AKG or Grado set that uses another type of connector. That's right they don't make them.

For me, I don't like seeing a couple of tech companies that sell mobile phones deciding what is used in these other industries, but I think it will start to creep into there. Ok, I can even live with that once I can buy some proper monitoring headphones with a USB type connector.

I do NOT want wireless headphones though. Sorry. There are just too many reasons I don't want to use Bluetooth. I've had bad luck with BT. Across MANY different devices, in MANY different situations, at MANY different distances (well within spec). I've had devices that refuse to pair. I've had devices that pair then drop. I've had devices that work fine as long as they stay within about a meter. I've had devices that pair fine for a while, then just stop. I've got other people living in the same house all with cell phones, and say I turn BT off for a sec, one of the other devices grabs a pairing. Then I have to figure out who, ask them to disconnect, then reconnect. Then it may or may not work. I haven't had much in the way of RF interference problems with actual crosstalk, but I have had some where I have a feeling those bands are just a bit too "busy" we'll say, and the connection become unreliable.

To be fair, I've also seen it work quite reliably in some cases, to where I couldn't really find a fault with it. Cool, but that isn't always the case. It's just more BS than I'm willing to put up with. I'm sure ten different people will come in here and give me fifty reasons why that SHOULDN'T be the case, or how I personally just have bad luck with it, but I've observed this with other people and their devices too. If BT has been a flawless experience for you, by all means use and enjoy it. There are some of us though that have seen some other facets to wireless tech. (for me a LOT more than BT all the way up to professional broadcasting equipment)

You may say, then get a set for your phone, and then a set for your more critical listening applications. I can ALMOST stomach that idea, except once again I can't get the brands I want at least at the moment. Even on a device that plays compressed digital audio, I still prefer a good set of headphones. I'll put on my studio AKGs or my slightly more portable Grados, and plug them into my phone while I'm sitting around outside (if I don't want to turn on my outdoor speakers) or while I'm laying in bed, or sometimes even doing yard work. Might look a little funny I'll grant you, but it still sounds better even with considering the source of the audio.

Now if Apple and Google got together with audio industry leaders, formed some kind of consortium, and agreed that maybe it's time to start using something else, then ok. But Apple deciding this, and calling it courage, then expecting everyone to just jump? That doesn't sit as well with me.

Whatever, I've pretty much given up, and will use a dongle in order to keep using the headphones I want. There are reasons though that some of us are resistant, and it's not because we fear change, or are antiquated, or can't "get with the times".

 

[keshley]

This again. So, first of all, we have product choice. Some products come with headphone jacks, some don't.

I find my phone too large to take with me when I'm going out for a jog, which is the only time I use my headphone jack nowadays. So for me, a phone without a headphone jack is a rare inconvenience. If I traveled all the time like I used to, I'd be sure to pick up a phone with a headphone jack. And, guess what? There's plenty of flagship phones that still have them. That's why it's a free market. Companies can choose to add and remove features as we see fit, and as consumers, we have the ability to choose the device that fits our needs.

Why is this such a big argument? I wouldn't buy an Aston Martin to haul lumber, but it's still a vehicle, just like the F-150.

 

[King of Heroes]

This again. So, first of all, we have product choice. Some products come with headphone jacks, some don't.

I find my phone too large to take with me when I'm going out for a jog, which is the only time I use my headphone jack nowadays. So for me, a phone without a headphone jack is a rare inconvenience. If I traveled all the time like I used to, I'd be sure to pick up a phone with a headphone jack. And, guess what? There's plenty of flagship phones that still have them. That's why it's a free market. Companies can choose to add and remove features as we see fit, and as consumers, we have the ability to choose the device that fits our needs.

Unless "the device that fits our needs" doesn't exist and no one is interested in building it. The device that would best fit my needs would be an LG V30 running Google Pixel software with Google Pixel updates and support. Hell, "<insert-flagship-phone-here> running stock Android w/ fast updates direct from Google" in general is a common request many people have. The response from manufacturers has largely been "fuck off".

 

[keshley]

TouchWiz isn't the burden it used to be. But I agree, non-modified Android is greatly requested. On the other hand, as enthusiasts, our viewpoint is also a bit skewed. Whenever I talk to my non-tech friends, they don't care about modified Android or not, or what version of iOS they're running. They just want their phone to work, and watch Facebook videos...

As a Project Fi subscriber, I'm stuck with Nexus/Pixel devices anyways, and unless the new XL is fantastic, I'm kinda looking at the new S8+ and whatnot with a bit of envy. The renders certainly look good, but I want to see an actual device. Oh well, only 3 weeks from reveal.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

This again. So, first of all, we have product choice. Some products come with headphone jacks, some don't.

I find my phone too large to take with me when I'm going out for a jog, which is the only time I use my headphone jack nowadays. So for me, a phone without a headphone jack is a rare inconvenience. If I traveled all the time like I used to, I'd be sure to pick up a phone with a headphone jack. And, guess what? There's plenty of flagship phones that still have them. That's why it's a free market. Companies can choose to add and remove features as we see fit, and as consumers, we have the ability to choose the device that fits our needs.

Why is this such a big argument? I wouldn't buy an Aston Martin to haul lumber, but it's still a vehicle, just like the F-150.

I only commented again because I was subscribed to the thread and it re-surfaced again. Audio is something I'm pretty passionate about (being that I design audio equipment) so...

 

[auntjemima]

Dropping features and increasing prices. Makes sense.