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Phenom updates

Ethug said:
LOL. way to work both sides of the argument there chump. I can't believe you even posted that crap and didn't realize how stupid it sounds once the middle is chopped out.

That's "the sound of you getting your ass handed to you", as you like to say.
Click to expand...
Technically, his first argument is about the current state of [H]ard, and the second is about the initial state. These two states can be different without contradiction...

I see no ass being handed to anyone...
 
visaris said:
Technically, his first argument is about the current state of [H]ard, and the second is about the initial state. These two states can be different without contradiction...

I see no ass being handed to anyone...
Click to expand...

He contradicts himself within the space of 2 sentences so I'm not going to bother:
Digital Viper-X- said:
this is [h] forums we don't discuss cheap hardware here, let me tell you how this community started. It didn't start with $1000 cpus, it started with the cheap Celeron A chip.
Click to expand...
 
Ethug said:
LOL. way to work both sides of the argument there chump. I can't believe you even posted that crap and didn't realize how stupid it sounds once the middle is chopped out.

That's "the sound of you getting your ass handed to you", as you like to say.
Click to expand...

reading comprehension is your friend E-Thug, your name is fitting, the first comment was a sarcastic mockery of what you said.

you made a statement , I proved to you that your statement is wrong :p

The Current state and even the initial state were both centered around enthusiasts getting hte most out of their systems, didn't matter if it was low end, or high end. and my first point AGAIN was about the fact that you were comparing the Pentium E chips which are bottom of the barrel Core 2s, so you were the one who originally started your little trip.
if you want to open a discussion about low end chips then don't be a retard and pull out a comment like your last one.
Click to expand...

that was the comment that followed my first comment. If you still don't get it, then get off the forums and go back to class.

$50-75 in a system IS A BIG DIFFERENCE to someone who doesn't have a big wad of cash to blow, or has bills and responsibilities.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
reading comprehension is your friend E-Thug, your name is fitting, the first comment was a sarcastic mockery of what you said.

you made a statement , I proved to you that your statement is wrong :p

The Current state and even the initial state were both centered around enthusiasts getting hte most out of their systems, didn't matter if it was low end, or high end. and my first point AGAIN was about the fact that you were comparing the Pentium E chips which are bottom of the barrel Core 2s, so you were the one who originally started your little trip.


that was the comment that followed my first comment. If you still don't get it, then get off the forums and go back to class.

$50-75 in a system IS A BIG DIFFERENCE to someone who doesn't have a big wad of cash to blow, or has bills and responsibilities.
Click to expand...

You're again trying to play both sides of the fence kid, give it up. And hell yes, I said "kid", I'm significantly older than you are. My name is a joke in and of itself. I'm here to have fun. Your arguements make little sense, pick a damn side and stay on it.

Your first post was a rambling train of thought about minor differences in LOW end product. It was a tragedy of any reasonable thought process and heres why:

The enthusiast is going to buy a low end core 2 and overclock it if they don't have a lot of money. They are NOT going to get the massive c2d style overclocks out of a low end amd core, and won't be buying one.
The non-enthusiast is NOT GOING TO CARE what they have, or notice a difference in performance between roughly similar processors because they are going to be browsing the net, sending email and occasionally burning a single cd.

This is a matter of common sense.
 
Ethug said:
You're again trying to play both sides of the fence kid, give it up. And hell yes, I said "kid", I'm significantly older than you are. My name is a joke in and of itself. I'm here to have fun. Your arguements make little sense, pick a damn side and stay on it.

Your first post was a rambling train of thought about minor differences in LOW end product. It was a tragedy of any reasonable thought process and heres why:

The enthusiast is going to buy a low end core 2 and overclock it if they don't have a lot of money. They are NOT going to get the massive c2d style overclocks out of a low end amd core, and won't be buying one.
The non-enthusiast is NOT GOING TO CARE what they have, or notice a difference in performance between roughly similar processors because they are going to be browsing the net, sending email and occasionally burning a single cd.

This is a matter of common sense.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I must have been hallucinating when I saw the dozens of posts from people that picked up 3600+ chips for $60-$70 and proceeded to overclock them into the 3GHz+ range on dirt cheap Biostar TForce 550 motherboards.
 
Ethug said:
He contradicts himself within the space of 2 sentences so I'm not going to bother:
Click to expand...

This is [h] forums we don't discuss cheap hardware here, let me tell you how this community started. It didn't start with $1000 cpus, it started with the cheap Celeron A chip.
Click to expand...

This is _not_ a contradiction. He says two things:

1) [H]ard _currently_ doesn't discuss cheap hardware.
2) [H]ard, at some point in the _past_ (namely the start) talked about cheap hardare.

Now, care to explain where the contradiction is? Are you just making wild assumptions, or do you not no how to read?
 
every interesting Barcelona/Penryn/Phenom thread seems to turn into some 5 page AMD vs. Intel argument
 
Rabid Badger said:
I'm sorry, I must have been hallucinating when I saw the dozens of posts from people that picked up 3600+ chips for $60-$70 and proceeded to overclock them into the 3GHz+ range on dirt cheap Biostar TForce 550 motherboards.
Click to expand...

which does not, unfortunately, equate to 3ghz core2 performance, now does it?
 
visaris said:
This is _not_ a contradiction. He says two things:

1) [H]ard _currently_ doesn't discuss cheap hardware.
2) [H]ard, at some point in the _past_ (namely the start) talked about cheap hardare.

Now, care to explain where the contradiction is? Are you just making wild assumptions, or do you not no how to read?
Click to expand...

I have someone else posting about numerous threads on cheap hardware, and other people telling me that [H] doesn't discuss cheap hardware, which is it?
I personally see people discuss all hardware.
 
Wow all this quibbling about NOTHING....back to Phenom!
I'm going back to GenMay :eek:
 
I'm curious about how the triple core Phenom will play out, myself. I think it will either be a brilliant success or an utter wash, but can't for the life of me figure out which at this point.

My thoughts on AMD vs. Intel is simple. What you do is take your budget and proposed use for the machine and then look to see which brand will work better for your needs. If AMD provides better value processors, then you buy AMD when looking for value systems; if they produce better high performance processors then you buy them when looking for high performance systems. You do the same thing with Intel. Always buy the brand that makes the most sense for what you're doing.
 
Punctuation is a good thing. So is reading the whole of a sentence instead of picking out small parts. Now, this is just MHO, but I'm thinking that Digital Viper-X meant to say something like the following:

Digital Viper-X said:
Just because you got your ass handed to you with your own argument doesn't mean you should pull out a stupid comment like "This is [H]forums we don't discuss cheap hardware here." Let me tell you how this community started. It didn't start with $1000 cpus, it started with the cheap Celeron A chip. Thats when OCing turned [H].
Click to expand...

Whether his actual argument is valid or not, I'm not going to say.
 
jadesaber2 said:
Punctuation is a good thing. So is reading the whole of a sentence instead of picking out small parts. Now, this is just MHO, but I'm thinking that Digital Viper-X meant to say something like the following:



Whether his actual argument is valid or not, I'm not going to say.
Click to expand...

I fondly remember the celeron 300a days.
If my memory serves, [H] started off as more of a "overclock on the cheap" kind of site but slowly changed and branched out into other things.
 
Ethug said:
I have someone else posting about numerous threads on cheap hardware, and other people telling me that [H] doesn't discuss cheap hardware, which is it?
I personally see people discuss all hardware.
Click to expand...

that is the point, people discuss all hardware, cheap and high end w/e it may be, my whole don't discuss cheap hardware was meant to mock your post,

Ethug said:
this is not [W]eak-ass Forum, it's Hard forum. No one gives a rats ass about what you build for grandma. People on THIS forum don't buy a 2160 to run it at stock, so don't be a dumbass and quote articles with it running stock. It's unrealistic for the argument at hand.
Click to expand...

and believe it or not, a lot of people will buy cpus and run them at stock. I haven't seen a single Intel board at $75 that can oc a 2160 to 3ghz or more. So when you compare pricing, and OC's you have to consider the fact that you'll pay at least $50-60 more for a motherboard to get that oc, $30 more for a heat sink, and maybe $10-15 more for the ram to go with it. Now you're talking about spending $100 more, which brings the system out of the low end and into mainstream.

that was the whole point of my "don't discuss cheap hardware if you're so [H], cheap hw includes the 2160. If you're going to spend an extra $100 on the system, put in another $40 and get a 4xxx or 6xxx cpu, then again, ur not in low end systems anymore.

and if you need more clarification
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103733 X2 3800 - $65
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131172 M2AVM - $65
thats $130

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116037 E2140 - $86
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128060- G33 S2 $100
thats $186 vs $130
$56 difference at stock no ocing

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128060 x2 3800 - $65
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128052 GB690G S3 - $86
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125 FreezerPro - $20
$171

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116037 E2140 - $86
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131180 P5k - $135
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125 FreezerPro - $20
$241

If I had to chose between those 2 systems, with either a Intel + 1950XT or AMD + 8800GTS, I'd go with the AMD setup.
Back on topic IMO

I hope the X2 phenoms are cheap, cuz I'd grab one for an HTPC with a 2400pro/8500gt
 
Umm.... that's a damn nice board.... certainly is signalling or ushering in something. I say, bring it on.
 
sorry.I ment to say more.the790fx motherboard with a tri-core I think will be the sweetspot for me.I wish folks would also stay on topic
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
I haven't seen a single Intel board at $75 that can oc a 2160 to 3ghz or more.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128060 x2 3800 - $65
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128052 GB690G S3 - $86
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125 FreezerPro - $20
$171

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116037 E2140 - $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127031 IP35-E - $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125 FreezerPro - $20
$170
Click to expand...

Do you bother doing any kind of research?

Abit IP35-E P35 board for ~$70-80 can do roughly 450 FSB stock. Changing just the board gives a completely different picture. Most people can bump the high 2Ghz's on the E21xx series with retail cooling.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=29&threadid=2063989&enterthread=y
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147163
 
dexvx said:
Do you bother doing any kind of research?

Abit IP35-E P35 board for ~$70-80 can do roughly 450 FSB stock. Changing just the board gives a completely different picture. Most people can bump the high 2Ghz's on the E21xx series with retail cooling.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=29&threadid=2063989&enterthread=y
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147163
Click to expand...

why don't u put up a link to a sigle ip35-e for $75, the cheapest I found was $95, and don't do sale prices please, or else everyone can go on and get sales on the said AMD parts too

and show some proof of any chips ocing to high 2 ghz on stock cooling while remaining within the thermal envelope.

not sure where ur supposed research is from, but I'd like to see it.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
why don't u put up a link to a sigle ip35-e for $75, the cheapest I found was $95, and don't do sale prices please, or else everyone can go on and get sales on the said AMD parts too

and show some proof of any chips ocing to high 2 ghz on stock cooling while remaining within the thermal envelope.

not sure where ur supposed research is from, but I'd like to see it.
Click to expand...

you're going to run this into the damn ground no matter how many people tell you different. fucking give it up already. the intel 21xx has the low end covered for the cost. Even if you DO have to spend that extra $20 (gasp! oh no!) the returns are so well worth it that its not even worth quibbling over.

get over it, move on. The rest of us aren't the absolute idiots you seem to think we are, and defending amd 'to the death' does nothing for you.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
why don't u put up a link to a sigle ip35-e for $75, the cheapest I found was $95, and don't do sale prices please, or else everyone can go on and get sales on the said AMD parts too

and show some proof of any chips ocing to high 2 ghz on stock cooling while remaining within the thermal envelope.

not sure where ur supposed research is from, but I'd like to see it.
Click to expand...

I guess you missed that 100+ page thread on XS forums, but ok.

If you bothered reading any of the posts, you would have figured out that the Abit IP35-E has had an on-going (for a few months) $20 rebate. It's on for several weeks, then off for another several weeks. Basically, its stable enough that you can get it for ~$70-80; its not like those Black Friday deals where its an extremely limited quantity and once a year type of thing. But ok, lets play your game and assume you can't get the rebate:

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA23881 E2160 Retail Boxed - $78.50
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/Skusearch.hmx?scriteria=BA23929 Abit IP35-E - $91
E2160 stock cooling - $0
$169.50

Oh and mid-high 2Ghz on stock cooling? Easy as pie with any remotely recent (aka if you buy brand new from a high volume source now) E21xx. This is with all stock cooling on an inferior overclocking motherboard (Intel G33).

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3112&p=14

Overclocking Results (Stock HSF)
CPU Name ................ Stock Speed / Max Sustained Speed / % Overlock
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ ..... 2.6GHz ..... 2.86GHz ..... 10%
AMD Athlon X2 BE-2350 ..... 2.1GHz ..... 2.41GHz ..... 14.70%
Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 ..... 2.2GHz ..... 3.12GHz ..... 41.80%
Intel Pentium E2160 ..... 1.8GHz ..... 3.02GHz ..... 67.70%
Intel Pentium E2140 ..... 1.6GHz ..... 2.69GHz ..... 68.10%
 
Man talk about some e-penis waving!!!! :rolleyes: Man you guys sound like an old married couple. Just agree to disagree and let it go, all three of you are so set in your ways nothing anyone else is going to say is going to change it. So just drop it and lets get back to the OP....you know Phenom updates since it is what the thread is talking about.
 
dexvx said:
I guess you missed that 100+ page thread on XS forums, but ok.

If you bothered reading any of the posts, you would have figured out that the Abit IP35-E has had an on-going (for a few months) $20 rebate. It's on for several weeks, then off for another several weeks. Basically, its stable enough that you can get it for ~$70-80; its not like those Black Friday deals where its an extremely limited quantity and once a year type of thing. But ok, lets play your game and assume you can't get the rebate:

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA23881 E2160 Retail Boxed - $78.50
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/Skusearch.hmx?scriteria=BA23929 Abit IP35-E - $91
E2160 stock cooling - $0
$169.50

Oh and mid-high 2Ghz on stock cooling? Easy as pie with any remotely recent (aka if you buy brand new from a high volume source now) E21xx. This is with all stock cooling on an inferior overclocking motherboard (Intel G33).

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3112&p=14

Overclocking Results (Stock HSF)
CPU Name ................ Stock Speed / Max Sustained Speed / % Overlock
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ ..... 2.6GHz ..... 2.86GHz ..... 10%
AMD Athlon X2 BE-2350 ..... 2.1GHz ..... 2.41GHz ..... 14.70%
Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 ..... 2.2GHz ..... 3.12GHz ..... 41.80%
Intel Pentium E2160 ..... 1.8GHz ..... 3.02GHz ..... 67.70%
Intel Pentium E2140 ..... 1.6GHz ..... 2.69GHz ..... 68.10%
Click to expand...

fair enough and no I didn't read through a 100 page thread, and FTR I still wouldn't oc a chip 50% on its stock cooling, I don't imagine those temps are going to be reasonable. And thats still $170 vs $130 ofcourse the E2160 will oc more then an ALREADY 2.6ghz athlon, put an x2 3800 + up and it will probably hit 2.5-2.6 ghz too.

but yea, lets agree to disagree

and ethug, I'm not defending AMD, I'm defending my opinion and experience. If Intel has a better low end platform, then I'd be arguing the other end of the stick.

and @ Phenom launchign at 2.3-2.6 Ghz its not bad for stock, I wonder how they will OC, considering intel only has above 2.6ghz on the Extreme chips currently.
 
Cannon_Fodder said:
Man talk about some e-penis waving!!!! :rolleyes: Man you guys sound like an old married couple. Just agree to disagree and let it go, all three of you are so set in your ways nothing anyone else is going to say is going to change it. So just drop it and lets get back to the OP....you know Phenom updates since it is what the thread is talking about.
Click to expand...

Well said. I'm sick to death of all this "my daddy can beat up your daddy" childishness. The topic is AMD Phenom - not Intel C2D. I understand comparisons may be made but let's at least stay on topic.

Hopefully AMD will release Phenom along with their newest video cards in mid-November as has been speculated. The last I heard, Phenom wasn't due until December, but that is old news from awhile back. Perhaps they got everything together and it will come in early.

If early reports of a 3 ghz Phenom were true perhaps it will oc very well. Hopefully there will be a lot of headroom in these chips along the lines of the C2D capabilities. All we can do is wait and see.
 
Thanks for the links, Manny. Meh - it figures. AMD can't seem to get these things out the door in a timely manner. Middle of next year is way too late IMO.
 
BigMacAttack said:
Thanks for the links, Manny. Meh - it figures. AMD can't seem to get these things out the door in a timely manner. Middle of next year is way too late IMO.
Click to expand...


Your welcome :)

I am not a religous man,but I pray that isnt the case.If true,AMD is really in trouble this time.Add this to the above whisperings,and things are truly looking dark.
 
Can some one like Morfinx clarify something for me ?? Please.....

Will AMD ship any native dual core chips ? based off the Barcelona architecure ? Is not Kuma a native dual core die ? ....like X2 ?

Someone high up on the ffood chain on XS is swearing up and down,that all dual core Agena's will be native quads with two cores disabled !!?? :eek:

WTF !?!!!!?

This cant possibly be true ?
 
Manny Calavera said:
Can some one like Morfinx clarify something for me ?? Please.....

Will AMD ship any native dual core chips ? based off the Barcelona architecure ? Is not Kuma a native dual core die ? ....like X2 ?

Someone high up on the ffood chain on XS is swearing up and down,that all dual core Agena's will be native quads with two cores disabled !!?? :eek:

WTF !?!!!!?

This cant possibly be true ?
Click to expand...

That makes sense. If a cpu has 2 "broken" cores then what better thing to do with it than to sell it as a dual core with the broken cores disabled?
 
That is incredibly dumb if true. But it is very suspicious that no Kuma floor plans or die shots have been shown.
 
pxc said:
That is incredibly dumb if true. But it is very suspicious that no Kuma floor plans or die shots have been shown.
Click to expand...

How so? I don't think it will have any preformance hits as a result of simply having 2 cores disabled (vs a dual core design of course).
 
Manny Calavera said:
Can some one like Morfinx clarify something for me ?? Please.....

Will AMD ship any native dual core chips ? based off the Barcelona architecure ? Is not Kuma a native dual core die ? ....like X2 ?

Someone high up on the ffood chain on XS is swearing up and down,that all dual core Agena's will be native quads with two cores disabled !!?? :eek:

WTF !?!!!!?

This cant possibly be true ?
Click to expand...

It'll will be native dual cores.
 
Darakian said:
How so? I don't think it will have any preformance hits as a result of simply having 2 cores disabled (vs a dual core design of course).
Click to expand...

It's not that it won't work, it's alot of silicon area wasted, 2 disabled cores for every Dual Core SKU?
 
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