Personal web server build

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GJSNeptune

[H]F Junkie
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Mar 31, 2004
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I'm growing tired of using a web host (1&1). They have great tools, and their site is easy to use, but I want more control, especially with PHP and MySQL. Also I hate waiting for big changes to take effect. But the main reason I want to do my own hosting is that I'm not learning very much using a web host.

My projects won't be so extensive that I'll need to roll in a Black Box cabinet with a bunch of server hardware. Just something basic with decent performance. I'd prefer something SFF or close, maybe something I could put on a shelf. Must have good cooling.

I have no experience with Linux and limited experience with the command line. How hard/easy would it be to setup Apache/PHP/MySQL under Ubuntu or another distro? My primary computer is XP Pro, and eventually I'll have a WHS build as well. Would I be able to connect to Ubuntu remotely from a Windows machine to maintain and tweak the server? And to upload website files, would I set up FTP or map the server HDD(s) to my main computer?

Budget is $300-350.
 
I have many servers running Linux, Debian distro's including Ubuntu, and at home I'm running Apache on a D-Link 323 NAS, which works well for what I need and does RAID, but doesn't have enough ram/processor to do a whole lot.

If this is something to play around with, I'd locate an older P4 or AMD PC and drop a couple of harddrives in it and throw in 1Gb of ram. Then download the latest Ubuntu and choose a LAMP (Linux/Apache/MySQL/Php) install which will give you what you need. You can enable FTP later if you choose, but I use scp over SSH for file transfers.

Here's a link with some info that should get you going.

http://www.howtoforge.com/ubuntu_lamp_for_newbies
 
I'm using WAMP right now. I like it, but I want to be able to stay up-to-date on PHP and MySQL, and I don't think a WAMP version with PHP 6 is out yet. Maybe I'm wrong though.
 
Setup of LAMP in Ubuntu is easy as hell. Just select it as an option when you are installing, and it will all work. Well, the L, A and P work for me, I dunno about M because I don't really use that, but it is installed. :p

As for administration, I connect to the server over SSH in order to update config files and do basic editing, and I set up samba so I can share directories for file transfer. As long as you read up a bit on how to edit the config files this is also pretty easy to do.

I am using Ubuntu server edition 8.04. If you are interested in the hardware specs I am using, you can see the details here. However, the ITX solution I used is probably a bit more than most people want to spend.

You probably already know this, but you may want to check out the ToS of your ISP before you dump 1&1. Most home internet services (where I am, anyways) do not allow you to run a server. I dunno how they tell if you are running one or not, but they may just block the ports necessary for a server to talk to the internet.
 
I'm not going to abruptly drop 1&1. I'll keep my sites up with them and start something new to learn what I'm doing. Eventually I'll bring everything under my wing. :D

I'm currently subscribing to Time Warner. I haven't confirmed yet, but as far as I know, Port 80 is open.
 
What you need from your cable company is a "static" IP address. You need to make sure its static or else it will change all of the time. When someone wants to connect to your website their machine asks their DNS server what IP the site is hosted on. If your address is "dynamic" it will change all of the time. I have COX cable and the only way to get a "static" address is to go with business class. I have multiple websites but didn't find it cost effective to pay the high cost of business class cable for my projects. I use SUSE at work and I'm sure it's as easy as Ubunto but dont expect to not have to research and fight command lines and config files unless your site is really basic.
 
So anyone have actual hardware suggestions besides an old P4 box? I'd rather have something that runs cooler. ;)
 
dr.sandman said:
What you need from your cable company is a "static" IP address. You need to make sure its static or else it will change all of the time. When someone wants to connect to your website their machine asks their DNS server what IP the site is hosted on. If your address is "dynamic" it will change all of the time. I have COX cable and the only way to get a "static" address is to go with business class. I have multiple websites but didn't find it cost effective to pay the high cost of business class cable for my projects. I use SUSE at work and I'm sure it's as easy as Ubunto but dont expect to not have to research and fight command lines and config files unless your site is really basic.
Click to expand...

Hmm, it looks like Road Runner is the same way.
 
What you need from your cable company is a "static" IP address. You need to make sure its static or else it will change all of the time. When someone wants to connect to your website their machine asks their DNS server what IP the site is hosted on. If your address is "dynamic" it will change all of the time.
Click to expand...

As already mentioned, you can use a service like DynDNS (free) to get around this problem. They will give you an address, and when you type it in, it directs your browser to your IP. You have a piece of software running on the server that periodically sends its IP address to the dyndns server, so if your IP changes, the DNS entry also changes.

The problems I have heard about is the ISP blocking the ports needed to run a web server, but I have never tested that.

GJSNeptune said:
So anyone have actual hardware suggestions besides an old P4 box? I'd rather have something that runs cooler. ;)
Click to expand...

I imagine it would depend quite a bit on how much you want to spend and how much load you expect on the server. If this is just a test server to try out LAMP, an old P4 system is probably the cheapest option.

I am no expert, but I recently got one of these and have been pretty happy with it. It won't win any speed awards, but it is pretty cool and quiet (especially if you can ditch the fan on the board). Plus it has two gigabit NICs so you could use it as a firewall if you wanted. I am running pfSense (BSD based) on mine and have been happy with the performance. That being said, I dunno about how it would work as a web server. The VIA C7 is not exactly a speed demon.

Other than that, just look for hardware with good Linux support. Most importantly for the server make sure the NICs are supported by your chosen distro. I have heard good things about Intel NICs, but as long as you avoid really new hardware, I have not had too many compatibility issues with other brands.
 
ilikecake said:
I imagine it would depend quite a bit on how much you want to spend and how much load you expect on the server. If this is just a test server to try out LAMP, an old P4 system is probably the cheapest option.
Click to expand...

GJSNeptune said:
My projects won't be so extensive that I'll need to roll in a Black Box cabinet with a bunch of server hardware. Just something basic with decent performance.

Budget is $300-350.
Click to expand...

ilikecake said:
I am no expert, but I recently got one of these and have been pretty happy with it. It won't win any speed awards, but it is pretty cool and quiet (especially if you can ditch the fan on the board). Plus it has two gigabit NICs so you could use it as a firewall if you wanted. I am running pfSense (BSD based) on mine and have been happy with the performance. That being said, I dunno about how it would work as a web server. The VIA C7 is not exactly a speed demon.

Other than that, just look for hardware with good Linux support. Most importantly for the server make sure the NICs are supported by your chosen distro. I have heard good things about Intel NICs, but as long as you avoid really new hardware, I have not had too many compatibility issues with other brands.
Click to expand...

I've been looking at ITX and Atom-based barebones systems. Pretty intriguing. Can't really settle on a case though. The "booksize" systems seem decent, though I still feel like I wanna assemble everything myself.

What about this with maybe some cooling tweaks?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101079
 
GJSNeptune said:
Budget is $300-350.
Click to expand...

My bad, totally missed that. :p

I looked at the atom boards for the pfSense build that I did and heard bad things about support for the Ethernet chip used on those boards. That was a little while ago, so the problems may be resolved, but make sure that it works before you get one. Other than that, that does look like a pretty sweet setup. If you want more DIY options for ITX size stuff, you can check out Logic Supply for cases and such. I used one of these cases with my ITX board and was pretty happy with it. Not quite as slick as the shuttle, but I like building things myself. :D
 
ilikecake said:
As already mentioned, you can use a service like DynDNS (free) to get around this problem.
Click to expand...
After re-reading the posts I'm not exactly sure where you think it was stated before.

GJSNeptune - you need to read this link on DynDNS and understand it before considering this option. I haven't looked into these dynamic ip redirector services in a while since i have a class C address at work and use go-daddy for my personal stuff but from what I remember you can not use your domain name with this service you have to use one of their domain names and you get a hostname. Example would be like yourdomainname.dyndns.com or yourdomainname.dnsalias.com
http://www.dyndns.com/services/dns/dyndns/howto.html

Like I said I haven't looked into this for a while but I think thats how it works. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
What about Free DNS or something similar? They seem to allow you to use your own domain name.
 
Oh and you haven't gotten much of an answer from people on the hardware because it really doesn't take much to run a web server. Anyone attached to your site as long as they aren't downloading tons of data would not know the difference if your webserver was a P2 400mhz or a intel I7 quadcore. Your internet bandwidth is the most critical for performance. And hard drive performance + bandwidth = download performance. I would say build yourself a home theater PC or a second useful computer that you can leave on all the time and just host the webserver from it.

Cheap webserver/media PC =
AMD 780G motherboard
2 gigs of cheap ram
cheap dual core AMD CPU
1 terabyte hard drive
DVD player
Good TV capture card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100014
I like this case and keyboard/mouse for stayin on the cheap
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811108060
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823166013

then you have a media pc and your not wasting a whole computer on a webserver that doesn't have much need for horse power
 
dr.sandman said:
After re-reading the posts I'm not exactly sure where you think it was stated before.
Click to expand...

I didn't explain myself clearly but had posted a link earlier about this. It's a really easy service which I have used before and recommend.
 
Does it allow you to use your own registered domain name? Or do you have to use a hostname on their domain name?

edit: my bad - I guess sometimes I have to read something 3 times to see it I see the earlier dynamic DNS post now.
 
Well I just scored an Antec NSK2480 for $64. Comes with a good 380W PSU. Now I just need to find a solid inexpensive mATX motherboard to base this around.

I don't really wanna buy an optical drive for it. I have an NEC 3550a in my closet that I could hook up temporarily to install an OS and such, but I'd rather do everything via a thumbdrive or something. I still haven't decided on an OS though.

How important is RAM for a web server? Should I 2x512MB or 2x1GB? I probably won't overclock, so what memory speed would be ideal for a BE-2350?


I'm thinking:

(combo - $89)
AMD Athlon X2 BE-2350 Brisbane 2.1GHz Retail
GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 740G

G.Skill 2x1GB DDR2-800 5-5-5-12 - $32

WD2500AAKS - $53

Total with case/PSU is just under $250. Thoughts?

EDIT: Hell, I have a 2500AAKS already that I partitioned for XP/Vista dual-boot in my previous system. I might just transfer data, break the partition, and use it instead of buying another one.
 
Another route to take would be an OEM CPU with a better HSF, but for $89 the combo is pretty enticing. A very quiet web server would be nice, but I'm sure the hard drive will still be the loudest component, even if I stick with the stock case fans and HSF.
 
I would say the combo is a good choice. Gigabyte motherboards rock and the stock coolers aren't bad/loud. If you really want something quiet get one of the WD green drives and pickup a OEM CPU with something quieter but that's up to you on how much you want to spend. The ram question is moot - the webserver it's self will not use much ram at all. If you are going to use this as a dual purpose rig than purchase the amount of ram based on the second purpose not the webserver. If you watch the [H]ot deals section you can get 2x1 sets of DDR-2 800 for half that price.
 
There's a thread about the NSK deal. It was from Fry's. It was $59.99 with free shipping, but I got tax since they have a warehouse in Ohio (bastards!). I think they're OOS now.

I'm pretty sure it'll be a web server only. I have an Antec Three Hundred in my closet (from the $40 shipped deal) that I might turn into a WHS box someday. I don't have any short-term plans for an HTPC at this time. So 2GB of memory is overkill?
 
GJSNeptune said:
I'm pretty sure it'll be a web server only. I have an Antec Three Hundred in my closet (from the $40 shipped deal) that I might turn into a WHS box someday. I don't have any short-term plans for an HTPC at this time. So 2GB of memory is overkill?
Click to expand...

Using a large bulky case for HTPC and a HTPC case for a webserver that can be turned on and stuck in the closet? Scratches head...

You don't need 2 gigs but it is soooo cheap right now you might as well get it. If you wait for a good deal you can pick up a 2 gig set for less than $20 bucks.(usually Corsair XMS2)
 
I've seen memory deals for under $20, but it's usually after rebate. I've already got three rebates pending. Not looking for another.
 
Looks like your all set. Are you going to be using one of those dynamic dns sites? Or are you going to bite the bullet and get business class ISP hosting to use your domain name?
 
GJSNeptune said:
I don't have any short-term plans for an HTPC at this time. So 2GB of memory is overkill?
Click to expand...

2GB of RAM is not overkill for a HTPC or Web Server. It's just about right IMO. Besides, 2GB of RAM will allow you be very flexible with whatever you want to do with your system. With that said, that G.Skill 2GB of RAM is overpriced. I recommend getting this Kingston set instead:
Kingston HyperX 2GB DDR2 800 RAM - $23 with free shipping.

Actually I'm a little confused as well:
So you're using the NSK for the web server and the Antec 300 for the WHS box?

For a web server, that $89 combo you linked to above is a VERY good choice. Should be more than enough for a web server or even a WHS box.
 
+1 for Kengston memory
The single stick ddr2 800 with the cas latency of 4 is worth the extra dollar

Sorry for the confusion I misread WHS ans HTPC... Stops scratching head:D
 
Yes, the NSK is for a web server, and the Antec 300 is available for anything. My initial plan was to use it as a WHS box someday.
 
some home ISP's do not like you running a webserver, read your contract! cause it could get you disconnected if they find you servering out HTTP content.
 
It won't be live for awhile. It'll be "offline" while I learn more about what I'm doing.
 
MrGuvernment said:
some home ISP's do not like you running a webserver, read your contract! cause it could get you disconnected if they find you servering out HTTP content.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the jack, but can someone post me a link or quickly explain WHY they don't want you to run a webserver. I would imagine that the problem would be the upload cramming the tubes, but wtf - you're paying for the service, right?
 
Probably to get you to upgrade to Business Class. I dunno. I emailed Time Warner about the matter. I don't want to fully upgrade to Business. I asked if maybe I could subscribe to an extra line just for my web server. Hopefully they get back to me soon.


Someone mentioned spotty Ethernet support with Atom boards. There are plenty of Newegg reviews claiming successful Ubuntu builds, so it seems the issues have been resolved.

I've got two current contenders here. I'll be using a WD2500AAKS hard drive that I already have.

Atom 330 - $158.47 + shipping
- Foxconn RS233
- Kingston 2GB DDR2-667 PC2-5300
- Intel BOXD945GCLF2 Atom 330 Intel 945GC
- A few people say the fan is noisy and should be replaced, even the NB cooler.

mATX - $287.94 + shipping
- Silverstone SG02
- BE-2350 OEM (combo)
- Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2HP (combo)
- Scythe Ninja Mini HSF
- G.Skill 2x1GB DDR2-800

So do I wanna save $100?
 
How do those builds look though? I'll definitely have to get a better 40mm fan, as most people say the stock one is really loud. Might as well throw in a better cooler too.
 
vsboxerboy said:
Sorry for the jack, but can someone post me a link or quickly explain WHY they don't want you to run a webserver. I would imagine that the problem would be the upload cramming the tubes, but wtf - you're paying for the service, right?
Click to expand...

as said, they want you to use the buisness line for it and not be sucking up the badnwidth ona "residential" account as you said, also with buisness you likely get better service and priority on the network


havent reviews shown the atom actually uses as much or more power as a normal cpu, so i say go the normal router and an mATX board..
 
Not that I've seen. People say it's the chipset that's power-hungry, which is probably why the chipset has the fan and not the CPU.
 
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