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Performance comparison 5900 vs 9700 Pro

R

requiem99

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
4,532
I've been out of the know for a while now, but I'm considering swapping my 9500 mod card for a 5900 series or possibly a 5700 Ultra because of how sick to death I am of ATIs drivers. I haven't seen any articles comparing the 9700 pro (which is essentially what my card is, a bit faster maybe since my clocks are a bit higher) to the 5900 series of cards (SE and Vanilla, Im not interested in getting an ultra since I don't have the cash)

5700 Ultra, 5900, and 5900 SE/XT owners post your observations please! :)
 
I just bought an XFX 5900XT from newegg for $160. This is a very nice card. It does take an extra PCI, but the cooler is not loud. The performance is great, especially coming from an ATI 9600 NP. I also love the new 56.56 drivers. I know there is a UT2K4 bug but I don't play that game so I don't care. The NVidia drivers have so many features built in that I use.

I missed the NVidia drivers most when I went to ATI for that short time.

I haven't overclocked this card yet - the performance is so good that I don't think I will until Doom 3 comes out.
 
Is the 5900XT the -exact- same thing as 5900SE? Whats the difference between the 5900 models.
 
from what I have heard XT=SE.

BTW, you won't notice much performance difference going from a softmod 9800 to a 5900XT. They are very similar in performance.
 
An XT on Nvidia is like an SE on ATI. An XT on ATI is like an Ultra on Nvidia.

I have a 5900 NU OC'd to 475core, 975mem.

I installed a 9700 Pro into a system I am building for a friend.

For the most part, they are equal BUT, the 9700 Pro has a much cleaner and sharper image in games. Their IQ is better. The textures are so much cleaner and sharper over my 5900. I have the systems side by side and can tell a difference.

I did a clean install of WinXP on the system and installed 4.2 drivers and have had zero problems. I just upgraded to 4.3 last night. No problems at all on it.

Performance is basically equal.
IQ is much better on ATI

Your choice.
 
Originally posted by Fetti
An XT on Nvidia is like an SE on ATI. An XT on ATI is like an Ultra on Nvidia.

I have a 5900 NU OC'd to 475core, 975mem.

I installed a 9700 Pro into a system I am building for a friend.

For the most part, they are equal BUT, the 9700 Pro has a much cleaner and sharper image in games. Their IQ is better. The textures are so much cleaner and sharper over my 5900. I have the systems side by side and can tell a difference.

I did a clean install of WinXP on the system and installed 4.2 drivers and have had zero problems. I just upgraded to 4.3 last night. No problems at all on it.

Performance is basically equal.
IQ is much better on ATI

Your choice.
Click to expand...

So you're saying the performance on a 128MB 5950 is the same as a stock 9700 pro?
 
No its not, why are all these people wanting to go to a friggen FX.

I have a 9800 Pro 128mb @ 412/730 clocks vs a 5900 Ultra 256mb flashed to 5950 speeds (so XT vs 5950 speeds).

The 9800 beats it in all my games hands down.

3dmark2001SE which is a good test for performance diff in more real world games is around 2000+ points differnce.

19k on the 5900 ultra vs 21k on the 9800 pro.

The image quality on the 9800 pro is much better, playing counter strike condition zero at a lan i compared it sitting right beside my brother and his was 10x more realistic vibrant where mine looked dull. Neither cranked any gamma or special settings. Digital vibrance looks to fake to me so I don't use it and it doesn't make my card look anywhere as good as the radeon.

Also if you still are stubborn and my have a horrible FX i say you take a look at upcoming DX9 based games as in the xbit article and hopefully change your mind.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/graphics-cards-2003_27.html

If nvidia released a turd in a box you guys would be all over it like flys wouldn't you, i go wherever the performance is and right now you just can't beat ATI in performance and pricing.
 
Ok sorry.

Went and pulled up my 9700pro @ 350/700 and scored 20k in 3dmark2001.

Still pulls faster benchs than the FX card.

?

I'm helping look out for future here, get a card or keep a card that will be better in the long run, I bought a 5900 Ultra to test and compare to my 9700pro and 9800pro and it just plain gets stomped hands down, last good nvidia product was the Geforce 4 series, it rocked. Ever since its been ATI all the way. Until otherwise i'm sticking ATI.

For the sake of your money here look at DX9 games and think this is what is right around the corner, do you wanna waste money and then these DX9 games flood out, then we'll see all these FX buyers on here bitching and wishing they got the ATI card and all that.

DaveM
 
Originally posted by MemoryInAGarden
So you're saying the performance on a 128MB 5950 is the same as a stock 9700 pro?
Click to expand...

No, I never said it was comparable to a 5950. I said mine was a 5900 NU OC'd to 475/975.

I compared it to the 9700 which I have here also and they both great performers but, the 9700 had better IQ.

If you look at the benches, the 5900 and 9700 are back and forth. 5900 wins some, 9700 wins some. 9700 has better IQ though.

That's exactly what I saw here for myself with my own test side by side.

A nvidia XT card is like an ATI SE card.

AN ATI XT is like Nvidia Ultra.

Nvidia uses XT opposite of what ATI uses it for basically.

Don't go 5700 Ultra. A 5900 or 9700/9800 blows it away.

If you rather go with Nvidia, then get the 5900 but I'm telling you from real life experience that the 9700 you have is better overall because it competes performance wise but, has a much better IQ.

The 5900 vs the 9700 I have side by side, the 9700 IQ is much cleaner and sharper. The 5900 textures are much more blurrier. That's with only 2xAA, 4xAF on both cards also. ATI also has a better AA. It starts pulling ahead as you crank up more AA/AF too.

If I had a place to upload screenshots, I would show you the difference.
 
My rule of thumb is, If you have the best of you generation GPU, then skip at least 2 gens before upgradeing..you going to get you nice new 5900nu or 9800pro and not notice much diffrence from you moded 9500pro...

mabey invest in some nice cooling for your 9500 and overclocks it more to 9700pro specs.

Wait for Nv40 and R40 (i think that ati upcoming)
 
Originally posted by requiem99
I've been out of the know for a while now, but I'm considering swapping my 9500 mod card for a 5900 series or possibly a 5700 Ultra because of how sick to death I am of ATIs drivers. I haven't seen any articles comparing the 9700 pro (which is essentially what my card is, a bit faster maybe since my clocks are a bit higher) to the 5900 series of cards (SE and Vanilla, Im not interested in getting an ultra since I don't have the cash)

5700 Ultra, 5900, and 5900 SE/XT owners post your observations please! :)
Click to expand...

An 9700 PRO at stock speed is faster than an overclocked 9500 PRO at 9700 PRO speeds just so you know.

I don´t know if you will be more happy with the nVidia drivers. They seem to be more buggy if you ask me though.
 
Originally posted by DaveM
No its not, why are all these people wanting to go to a friggen FX.
Click to expand...

Because to those same people, ATi's drivers friggin' sux0r - and still do, despite the improvements. :p
 
Yes, ATI drivers suck but if you buy 9800 XT for $400 you will get a voucher for Half Life 2 with the estimated shipping date of 2005.
 
I haven't used a Geforce card for quite sometime now. My last two card where the Radeon 9000 Pro and now my current card, 9700 pro. I'm as happy as the day I bought the card still to this day. The performance is there and it plays all the games I do at 1600x1200 resolution with no flaws and I still get good fps. This is of course with eye candy turned on in most games.
 
Sell your 9500 for what, $100? Get a decent 5900nu for $100 ($200 - $100 from 9500). OC it to a 5950, and you got top of the line performance for $100 (+/- a little).
 
Originally posted by E4g1e
Because to those same people, ATi's drivers friggin' sux0r - and still do, despite the improvements. :p
Click to expand...

You know since I've gotten a 5900 ultra for the second machine which at 5950 flash artifacts from heat in splinter cell, only game who knows why.

Anyways i've been greeted many times now with nv4_disp.dll BSOD from all kinds of things, like listening to winamp not even playing a game and the rest of my system is stock.

I really think ATI drivers are up if not better than nvidia's lately with a update every month as they promised :D.

nVidia and thier drivers at the current moment suck. before they where awesome and ATI drivers sucked, shoes on the other foot now, no matter how you try to say it :D.

DaveM
 
I'm WELL aware of how great ATI image quality is, but this means precisely diddly/noodles to me if i can't play the games I want properly.

Deus Ex 1 : D3D looks horrible, granted it looks bad on nvidia too, but at least nvidia can run OpenGL mode which looks great. My card runs it fine in 640x480 and SOMETIMES if I crank up the res, but usually it just pixellates the screen and then either crashes to a BSOD or simply eats up 100 percent of the cpu until I'm able to finally wait for alt-tab then closing it.

Halflife/Counterstrike/Natural Selection : Playable, but not near how it should be. Framerate spikes down into the 20s especially in CS, and even lower with smoke grenades. I've tried every tweak listed on every forum, but none help me achieve a stable 60 or higher FPS.

Day of Defeat : Simply unplayable, despite every tweak I can find. Framerate goes down to 20 or so constantly and the game just feels even slower than that, it lurches and spikes and staggers like mad.

GTA3 : Unplayable, as it has been ever since I got my first radeon with catalyst 3.0 -- The game spikes, staggers, and stutters like mad, even with AA/AF off and in low res. The first act is somewhat playable, but the second area is just totally laggy. I've tried this game on 5 different radeons in 6 different systems. Don't tell me its my comp, because at this point I know better.

C&C Generals : Unplayable. The game staggers, stutters, and spikes like crazy. Everything is just laggy as all fuck. Totally unplayable ever since a recent driver patch (somewhere around 3.7 I think)


These are just a few examples. Granted, there are games that work flawlessly and run nicer and look MUCH better than on anythin nvidia has (warcraft 3 for example) -- But I'll take something that runs every game properly or at least very playable over something that only runs half the games out there flawlessly and the other half in varying degrees of playability.

Oh, and to the idiot children who are about to troll this post as surely as night turns to day every 24 hours, I have this to say: Save your breath, I've heard it all already. I know what I'm doing, my rig works as it should, and the real problems I'm having with ATI are absolutely 100 percent driver problems. Check forums, everyone else has posted about the stuff I posted above time and time again.
 
Originally posted by akanafene
Yes, ATI drivers suck but if you buy 9800 XT for $400 you will get a voucher for Half Life 2 with the estimated shipping date of 2005.
Click to expand...

yea that really sucks...All those people who bought there $200 9600XT because of the free halflife selling point really bent over that one in the ass...


i have been useing NVIDA since day one, and i have had my share of problems but i dont understand all the crap about the "nv4_disp.dll BSOD" with the newer 50 series drivers. I havent seen this once, and my card has been pushed to the limits, unloaded and reloaded diffrent drivers, and used there driver along with many many diffrent tweak programs...So i dont know what im doing diffrently. I think there rock solid.
 
Hi i have both brands....

ATI 9500 softmod -> 9700 like yours and a GF3 TI500
i must say that both have shitty and excellent drivers :)
Nor Nvidia NOR ATI have flawless drivers, both are fucked up!
I know about some of the issues are are having have been sayd before, i personally play some of those games and have nothing like your problems, but thats not what i want to say.

Well my GF3 has all the power and even more that is necessary to play CS free of problems and i have the same thing as you do in CS.

DOD is fine in both cards....

NFS7 is completly SHIT in Nvidia, as is UT2004 demo, but UT demo has some bugs in ATI too.
NFS7 (NFSU) is gorgeous in ATI.

Splinter cell is really bad with errors in Nvidia and Very fine in ATI.
So, i have lockups in all kind of things in both platforms, and what i'm trying to say is....
Changing from one card maker to another because of drivers, are kinda stupid (is not meant directly to you, just my opinion :) ), because each manufacturer has something better in certain games and other in other games.
I think you should wait just another two months and see whats comes to market.
Than decide.
No manufacturer is free of problems anyway, and a lot more will come(problems i mean), believe that :p
 
I had a bad experience with a 9600NP and Warcraft 3 FT. It would stutter really bad at 1024x768 with no AA/AF. My Ti4200 with only 64MB RAM would play this game beautifully at 1024x768 with 2QxAA and 2xAF. I also missed Digital Vibrance. It's not for everyone, but I think it makes the games really stand out.

The moment I get the XFX 5900XT, the brilliant 56.56 drivers are released. I simply can't believe all the features these drivers have. A popup blocker? Thanks, I can uninstall Google toolbar. Multiple desktops in Windows? Yes, I will take that too. Finally a feature that I have enjoyed in Linux for years is in Windows.

I am really happy with the features of this card. It's simply amazing.
 
Originally posted by Santroph
Well my GF3 has all the power and even more that is necessary to play CS free of problems and i have the same thing as you do in CS.
Click to expand...

very true, in fact a TnT M64 16mb has more that enough power to play CS.... :)
 
Originally posted by requiem99
I'm WELL aware of how great ATI image quality is, but this means precisely diddly/noodles to me if i can't play the games I want properly.

Deus Ex 1 : D3D looks horrible, granted it looks bad on nvidia too, but at least nvidia can run OpenGL mode which looks great. My card runs it fine in 640x480 and SOMETIMES if I crank up the res, but usually it just pixellates the screen and then either crashes to a BSOD or simply eats up 100 percent of the cpu until I'm able to finally wait for alt-tab then closing it.

Halflife/Counterstrike/Natural Selection : Playable, but not near how it should be. Framerate spikes down into the 20s especially in CS, and even lower with smoke grenades. I've tried every tweak listed on every forum, but none help me achieve a stable 60 or higher FPS.

Day of Defeat : Simply unplayable, despite every tweak I can find. Framerate goes down to 20 or so constantly and the game just feels even slower than that, it lurches and spikes and staggers like mad.

GTA3 : Unplayable, as it has been ever since I got my first radeon with catalyst 3.0 -- The game spikes, staggers, and stutters like mad, even with AA/AF off and in low res. The first act is somewhat playable, but the second area is just totally laggy. I've tried this game on 5 different radeons in 6 different systems. Don't tell me its my comp, because at this point I know better.

C&C Generals : Unplayable. The game staggers, stutters, and spikes like crazy. Everything is just laggy as all fuck. Totally unplayable ever since a recent driver patch (somewhere around 3.7 I think)


These are just a few examples. Granted, there are games that work flawlessly and run nicer and look MUCH better than on anythin nvidia has (warcraft 3 for example) -- But I'll take something that runs every game properly or at least very playable over something that only runs half the games out there flawlessly and the other half in varying degrees of playability.

Oh, and to the idiot children who are about to troll this post as surely as night turns to day every 24 hours, I have this to say: Save your breath, I've heard it all already. I know what I'm doing, my rig works as it should, and the real problems I'm having with ATI are absolutely 100 percent driver problems. Check forums, everyone else has posted about the stuff I posted above time and time again.
Click to expand...
yeah, you called it. But im gonna say it anyways.. if its your gfx card then its a hardware problem. I can play all of those games just great on a 9700 np with a slower processor, less and slower ram. The only one I havent played is deus ex. I run 100 constant on cs and dod.. ns is a bit slower though. GTA3 is fine (or at least vice city is) and so is generals. *shrug* I dunno, but theres gotta be something more than ati's drivers... its not really fair for you to pin it on them when many other people are just fine.
 
Oh, and to the idiot children who are about to troll this post as surely as night turns to day every 24 hours, I have this to say: Save your breath, I've heard it all already. I know what I'm doing, my rig works as it should, and the real problems I'm having with ATI are absolutely 100 percent driver problems. Check forums, everyone else has posted about the stuff I posted above time and time again.


__________________
Abit KD7-E / XP2100+ / 1gb Kingston DDR333
Sapphire Radeon 9500np softmod --> 9800 @ 400/310


You have a soft modded card and you say "100 percent driver problems"

I say " BULLSHIT" set every thing back to stock. reomove drivers. install new drivers .
"then tell me its "100 percent driver problem"

I have a 9500pro tried all kinds of mods and fakalu drivers . made my card faster but caused problems. At stock speeds with stock drivers have had zero problems

before you make rash statements about drivers maybe you should set the card at stock like it was intended when you purchased it
Click to expand...
 
Some of these Catalyst driver horror storys are almost as funny as fucking ghost storys:rolleyes:
2 words nearly 90% of the time its user error not the drivers end of story;) I have both owned and used countless ATI products and have had a grand total of 2 driver conflicts in this time.
One being morrowind=Game patch and V8racedriver cat 4.9's fixed this;)
There as the nforce Drivers let me count the amount of conflicts on 5 sets of hands mafia red faction 1 and 2 age of empires civilization the sims and the list goes on:p

As the old saying goes results may vary but for god sake stop all this crap about the cat driver being woeful because its frogshit:rolleyes:
 
Installed the 9700 Pro here, not a single solitary problem with any games. Flawless execution of everything I run. Either I got REAL lucky or I got a proper working installation :)
 
Format and go completely fresh.

Like all errors 90% of the time its the user. If that where the case nobody would have ATI or nvidia cards because a majority of people have those problems because they don't know how to work the computer lol.

Same with other stuff, people will say a piece of hardware is broke or not functioning right because they don't know how to properly install it or don't know how it really works.

Format, fresh windows, then sp1 and updates, then dx9, chipset drivers, video, sound.

Then tell us how messed up it is still.

DaveM
 
Originally posted by blvdKing
I had a bad experience with a 9600NP and Warcraft 3 FT. It would stutter really bad at 1024x768 with no AA/AF.
Click to expand...
Maybe your card was the 9600 SE, they have two NON PRO, a SE with shitty mem and a normal. Or even a defective card :S

I also missed Digital Vibrance. It's not for everyone, but I think it makes the games really stand out.
Click to expand...
Well ok, i had several Nvidia cards and admit it was good fro them, but they used it because they don't have as good colors as ATI.


The moment I get the XFX 5900XT, the brilliant 56.56 drivers are released. A popup blocker?
Click to expand...
Well, that one i liked a lot too :D, ATI, hear that!! ;)

Thanks, I can uninstall Google toolbar. Multiple desktops in Windows? Yes, I will take that too. Finally a feature that I have enjoyed in Linux for years is in Windows.
Click to expand...
Hum, u know, u had this in ATI for a LOOOOOONG time, it is called HydraVision, VERY OLD software and a good, one, i use it for more than a year now.

Don't see me as a ATI fanboy, i just like them more than Nvidia now, and remember i have a Nvidia card that I like A LOT too, GF3 ti500.
Bye
 
Tra-la-la! I knew SOME wanker would come and say "format you pc!" and of course Backstabber bestowed his glorious knowledge upon me with that wonderfully ill-conceived post from the black hole he calls a brain! Here's a bit of wisdom for you tard log: The card I have is a 9700 with 4 pipelines turned off, and do you know what a pipeline is? Do you have ANY concept whatsoever of what the 9500->9700 "mod" does? It simply tells windows that you have a 9700 instead of a 9500, because THEY ARE THE SAME CARD. Some 9700s were "binned" for having bad pipelines, and thus some people who do the "mod" either get non working cards (fixed by a simple driver wipe, its just a software thing after all) or rendering artifacts. I GET NEITHER, and the issues PERSIST WITHOUT A MODDED DRIVER OR ANY OVERCLOCKING.

DO - YOU - UNDERSTAND - ?

AM. I. GETTING. THROUGH. YET?

In fact, some of these issues did not exist until a recent catalyst driver "update" which then caused new problems. Anyway, I'm still trying to get deus ex running without giving me the BSOD and rendering artifacts. Joy! Anyone want to trade me a 5900 yet? :D

Oh and dave: I've formatted since I bought this card, but I'm not formatting now. I know the proper method of driver installation, hell I even wrote a tutorial for my friends to know how to driver clean the registry of nvidia crap (And old ATI driver entries) by hand. I know what I'm about, and I know when the problem isn't mine. No video hardware I've ever owned, not EVER, before ATI has constantly smacked me in the face with problems that should never appear in the first place, and that i have to spend hours tweaking to fix. Not Voodoo2 or 3, not TNT2, not GF2/GF3/GF4, and not even GF FX, and I've owned all of them. I even owned a couple 5800 Ultras right when they first came out, and they were loud and hot and didn't perform like I thought they should, but they didn't have driver issues that caused games to be unplayable, not even at that early stage of drivers for that card.

Anyway, back to troubleshooting.
 
Originally posted by requiem99
Tra-la-la! I knew SOME wanker would come and say "format you pc!" and of course Backstabber bestowed his glorious knowledge upon me with that wonderfully ill-conceived post from the black hole he calls a brain! Here's a bit of wisdom for you tard log: The card I have is a 9700 with 4 pipelines turned off, and do you know what a pipeline is? Do you have ANY concept whatsoever of what the 9500->9700 "mod" does? It simply tells windows that you have a 9700 instead of a 9500, because THEY ARE THE SAME CARD. Some 9700s were "binned" for having bad pipelines, and thus some people who do the "mod" either get non working cards (fixed by a simple driver wipe, its just a software thing after all) or rendering artifacts. I GET NEITHER, and the issues PERSIST WITHOUT A MODDED DRIVER OR ANY OVERCLOCKING.

DO - YOU - UNDERSTAND - ?

AM. I. GETTING. THROUGH. YET?

In fact, some of these issues did not exist until a recent catalyst driver "update" which then caused new problems. Anyway, I'm still trying to get deus ex running without giving me the BSOD and rendering artifacts. Joy! Anyone want to trade me a 5900 yet? :D

Oh and dave: I've formatted since I bought this card, but I'm not formatting now. I know the proper method of driver installation, hell I even wrote a tutorial for my friends to know how to driver clean the registry of nvidia crap (And old ATI driver entries) by hand. I know what I'm about, and I know when the problem isn't mine. No video hardware I've ever owned, not EVER, before ATI has constantly smacked me in the face with problems that should never appear in the first place, and that i have to spend hours tweaking to fix. Not Voodoo2 or 3, not TNT2, not GF2/GF3/GF4, and not even GF FX, and I've owned all of them. I even owned a couple 5800 Ultras right when they first came out, and they were loud and hot and didn't perform like I thought they should, but they didn't have driver issues that caused games to be unplayable, not even at that early stage of drivers for that card.

Anyway, back to troubleshooting.
Click to expand...

Ever tried a simple driver rollback?
 
Originally posted by requiem99
Tra-la-la! I knew SOME wanker would come and say "format you pc!" and of course Backstabber bestowed his glorious knowledge upon me with that wonderfully ill-conceived post from the black hole he calls a brain! Here's a bit of wisdom for you tard log: The card I have is a 9700 with 4 pipelines turned off, and do you know what a pipeline is? Do you have ANY concept whatsoever of what the 9500->9700 "mod" does? It simply tells windows that you have a 9700 instead of a 9500, because THEY ARE THE SAME CARD. Some 9700s were "binned" for having bad pipelines, and thus some people who do the "mod" either get non working cards (fixed by a simple driver wipe, its just a software thing after all) or rendering artifacts. I GET NEITHER, and the issues PERSIST WITHOUT A MODDED DRIVER OR ANY OVERCLOCKING.

DO - YOU - UNDERSTAND - ?

AM. I. GETTING. THROUGH. YET?

In fact, some of these issues did not exist until a recent catalyst driver "update" which then caused new problems. Anyway, I'm still trying to get deus ex running without giving me the BSOD and rendering artifacts. Joy! Anyone want to trade me a 5900 yet? :D

Oh and dave: I've formatted since I bought this card, but I'm not formatting now. I know the proper method of driver installation, hell I even wrote a tutorial for my friends to know how to driver clean the registry of nvidia crap (And old ATI driver entries) by hand. I know what I'm about, and I know when the problem isn't mine. No video hardware I've ever owned, not EVER, before ATI has constantly smacked me in the face with problems that should never appear in the first place, and that i have to spend hours tweaking to fix. Not Voodoo2 or 3, not TNT2, not GF2/GF3/GF4, and not even GF FX, and I've owned all of them. I even owned a couple 5800 Ultras right when they first came out, and they were loud and hot and didn't perform like I thought they should, but they didn't have driver issues that caused games to be unplayable, not even at that early stage of drivers for that card.

Anyway, back to troubleshooting.
Click to expand...

Ever thought of getting another hobby? If you can't even talk to people right on a forum I can pretty much guess what's wrong with your system. Sell your system and get a console. They are idiotproof.
 
Sell your system and get a console. They are idiotproof.
Click to expand...

so true. i cant be more than 10 feet from counter-strike until i start crying and wishing i was playing counter-strike.
 
Talking to idiots makes me break out in hives, consequently I'm done with this discussion as it seems nearly every idiot on this forum has gravitated to this thread. If your fanboy nature can't be stifled for even a few minutes to note there might actually be problems with your beloved video hardware that you've never noticed then for the love of god just keep your idiothole closed.

For the record I hate consoles. ;)
 
Originally posted by zoltan
so true. i cant be more than 10 feet from counter-strike until i start crying and wishing i was playing counter-strike.
Click to expand...


I have to be more that 10 feet away from the game at all times or i will start crying because such a shitty game did so well due the the simple minds of the younger masses
 
Even if NVIDIA drivers weren't less buggy than ATI (which they are), their layout and features are so much better. ATI's layout is the most horrible thing I have ever seen. It makes me cringe everytime I have to change something in them. The 56.56 drivers completely blew me away. The game profiles is similiar to something I've even asked for on this board for. No one responded then, but it seems NVIDIA heard. The new nView also looks great. I am going to see if this makes it possible to go to your desktop from FFXI without crashing the game. If it does I will be very, very happy.

Oh, and mouse gestures is something I've been using in my web browser (Firefox) for some time now. I can't stand not having them anymore. I wonder if it will be that same with nvidia's drivers. Don't really care about the popup-blocker because, like I said, I use Firefox and it already has one.
 
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