[PCPER] The NVIDIA GeForce GTX TITAN Z Review

PRIME1 said:
The Titan Z is great for gaming + CUDA applications.

If you are just gaming get a 780ti SLI set up.

That the 295 needs water in order to run says a lot about how inefficient the chips are in it. Next gen they will need liquid nitrogen in order to compete.
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Or you buy 2 Titan Blacks and save yourself $1000 and have faster gaming+cuda performance.

Which makes the Titan Z a waste.

And in case you want to bring up the fact that someone with an ITX would want it for a small gaming+cuda machine. Well that myth is busted since the Titan Z is 2.5 slots.

Then you might bring up the fact that then you could use a matx motherboard. Well that is busted since you could stick the 2 Titan blacks on the matx motherboard and save yourself $1000.

Then you might bring up that it uses less power. Sure you are right, 26w is alot of power saving.
 
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DASHlT said:
Or you buy 2 Titan Blacks and save yourself $1000 and have faster gaming+cuda performance.
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Where are you finding Titan Blacks for $999, exactly? Just took a peek at Amazon, and it looks like they're going for $1299.

So you'd end up saving around $400, not $1000.

DASHlT said:
And in case you want to bring up the fact that someone with an ITX would want it for a small gaming+cuda machine. Well that myth is busted since the Titan Z is 2.5 slots.
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How does the cooler being large bust it, exactly? There are a good number of Mini ITX cases that will hold a Titan Z...

DASHlT said:
Then you might bring up that it uses less power. Sure you are right, 26w is alot of power saving.
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375w vs. 500w = 125w difference

How did you come up with 26w?
 
Unknown-One said:
Where are you finding Titan Blacks for $999, exactly? Just took a peek at Amazon, and it looks like they're going for $1299.

So you'd end up saving around $400, not $1000.


How does the cooler being large bust it, exactly? There are a good number of Mini ITX cases that will hold a Titan Z...


375w vs. 500w = 125w difference

How did you come up with 26w?
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http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040890372&postcount=64 26w.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7036&cm_re=titan_black-_-14-487-036-_-Product $1099. So you save $800 if you get this model.

No one trying to make a small ITX case is going to get a case that has more then 2 slots. Then you will need to find an ITX case that can even fit a PSU big enough to power everything.

Also not sure if you checked enough. But I see Titan blacks for $1099 on amazon. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...8-1&keywords=Nvidia+titan+black&condition=new Sold by Amazon.
 
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DASHlT said:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040890372&postcount=64 26w.
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That's whole-system, not the cards themselves :confused:

Both the Titan Z and the 295x2 are going to show slightly inflated numbers there, simply because they allow the rest of the system to run flat-out (using more power) more often.

I'd be curious to see in-line measurements done with an amp meter.

DASHlT said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7036&cm_re=titan_black-_-14-487-036-_-Product $1099. So you save $800 if you get this model.
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That's not in-stack, so doesn't really help...

Right now, I can't find a Titan Black for much cheaper than $1299 anywhere.

DASHlT said:
No one trying to make a small ITX case is going to get a case that has more then 2 slots. Then you will need to find an ITX case that can even fit a PSU big enough to power everything.
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Well, as has already been mentioned, the ncase M1 is absolutely TINY and has 3 slots.

Also possible to cram a full ATX PSU in there along with a Titan Z (as long as you get a non-modular PSU and the wires come out on the correct side of the unit).

DASHlT said:
Also not sure if you checked enough. But I see Titan blacks for $1099 on amazon. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...8-1&keywords=Nvidia+titan+black&condition=new Sold by Amazon.
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Look closer, also out of stock.

"Ships in 1 to 2 months"
 
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Unknown-One said:
That's whole-system, not the cards themselves :confused:

Both the Titan Z and the 295x2 are going to show slightly inflated numbers there, simply because they allow the rest of the system to run flat-out (using more power) more often.

I'd be curious to see in-line measurements done with an amp meter.


That's not in-stack, so doesn't really help...

Right now, I can't find a Titan Black for much cheaper than $1299 anywhere.


Well, as has already been mentioned, the ncase M1 is absolutely TINY and has 3 slots.

Also possible to cram a full ATX PSU in there along with a Titan Z (as long as you get a non-modular PSU and the wires come out on the correct side of the unit).


Look closer, also out of stock.

"Ships in 1 to 2 months"
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They were both in stock yesterday. If you had the money laying around for the Titan Z. You should ogf snagged those up yesterday.
 
Activate: AMD said:
When the base system is the same, is this distinction even remotely meaningful?
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Its not...he's trying to make it a bigger difference than what it actually is to justify his argument. Same with the noise levels. By the way to put it in perspective below is the system I could build for the cost of 1 Titan Z just randomly adding parts off of pcpartspicker...base cost $2,981 and after rebates $2,826.

 
pcjunkie said:
Its not...he's trying to make it a bigger difference than what it actually is to justify his argument.
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Not trying to make it a bigger difference at all.

Note that I said that the Titan Z and the 295X2 would BOTH show inflated power-draw, not just one or the other, when measuring whole-system consumption. I then said I'd like to see actual amp-draw measurements done to see how much these cards ACTUALLY draw.
Where did I say that this would make one card or the other look better? I didn't. Please read more carefully.

pcjunkie said:
Same with the noise levels.
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That one I'm not exaggerating on. Noise is very near the top of my list of concerns when building a system.

I pretty much double-check everything against SPCR's reviews to make sure my box is as quiet as possible for a high-end machine.

pcjunkie said:
By the way to put it in perspective below is the system I could build for the cost of 1 Titan Z just randomly adding parts off of pcpartspicker...base cost $2,981 and after rebates $2,826.

http://i.imgur.com/KRpOJpB.png
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...ok, what's your point? That a dual-card setup is generally a better deal (on price and performance) than any single dual-GPU card?

I already made that point back in post #71
 
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jbltecnicspro said:
Not sure I'd trust those numbers. [H]'s numbers tell a different story.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/04/08/amd_radeon_r9_295x2_video_card_review/12

EDIT: But then again, the Titan Black could be pulling more watts and two of them may actually approach the Radeon. Nevermind - it's a wash.
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exactly. Problem is there is no other website to show up results because Nvidia will not allow any websites to review the card.

Kyle himself has stated he has asked 3 times already.
 
Unknown-One said:
Well, as has already been mentioned, the ncase M1 is absolutely TINY and has 3 slots.

Also possible to cram a full ATX PSU in there along with a Titan Z (as long as you get a non-modular PSU and the wires come out on the correct side of the unit).
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If you look around the net at mitx builds. You will see numerous people with 690 GTX's that tried to put them in a mitx case, only to find out that dumping the heat back into a small mitx case was a huge drawback.

I do not see anyone doing the same thing with Titan Z. At least IF (thats a pretty big if) you want to make a mitx gaming case with a crossfire/sli card your best bet would be a 295x2.

I know you are trying very hard to justify this card for mitx, but it just simply will not work. If the card can barely stop from throttling. A mitx case isn't going to help at all, specially if the card is dumping the heat back in the case.

I have nothing again the titan cards or Nvidia. But a $3000 2.5 slot card that throttles badly and is only 26w less then a 295x2 just is laughable. Think about it, there is a reason Nvidia will not let give cards to the hardware press for reviews.....
 
I'd have to agree... Titan Z is a joke. If it was twice the price for 50% more performance, then I could see the argument that the pricing is a joke. Twice the price for the same or less performance? The entire card is a joke at that point. My opinion, and it's not going to change.
 
RamonGTP said:
I'd have to agree... Titan Z is a joke. If it was twice the price for 50% more performance, then I could see the argument that the pricing is a joke. Twice the price for the same or less performance? The entire card is a joke at that point. My opinion, and it's not going to change.
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Exactly, and you can dedicate the saving to watercooling your entire PC. I would think that would be a lot less noise for the ones arguing that the TitanZ is quieter.
 
DASHlT said:
If you look around the net at mitx builds. You will see numerous people with 690 GTX's that tried to put them in a mitx case, only to find out that dumping the heat back into a small mitx case was a huge drawback.

I do not see anyone doing the same thing with Titan Z. At least IF (thats a pretty big if) you want to make a mitx gaming case with a crossfire/sli card your best bet would be a 295x2.
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Wait... so you say the Titan Z doesn't make sense because of the heat it will produce, and then you suggest a card that puts out EVEN MORE heat as a better option?

I don't get it... :confused:

DASHlT said:
I know you are trying very hard to justify this card for mitx, but it just simply will not work. If the card can barely stop from throttling. A mitx case isn't going to help at all, specially if the card is dumping the heat back in the case.
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Depends on how you set it up.

Cramming one of these into a small case gives you the ability to pop a hole and cool the card entirely with air from outside the case. That means the graphics card itself should run cool, you just have to deal with getting the heat out of the case so it doesn't increase the temps of other components.

DASHlT said:
I have nothing again the titan cards or Nvidia. But a $3000 2.5 slot card that throttles badly and is only 26w less then a 295x2 just is laughable.
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I've been saying from the beginning that I don't like the price either. I just disagree that it being overpriced makes the product in-and-of-itself a joke.

I'm still skeptical about there being only a 26w difference when the rated TDP of the two cards is 125w apart. I'd like to see a few more people check that out first.

Again, where did it throttle? I saw it run at base clock instead of boosting, but an actual overheat/throttle scenario didn't come up in that quad-SLI review (which is pretty much a worst-case-scenario for heat).
 
*sigh*

I guess most people wouldn't dare cram a Titan Z or 295X2 in a small case like that to begin with. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Common sense and all that.
 
RamonGTP said:
I'd have to agree... Titan Z is a joke. If it was twice the price for 50% more performance, then I could see the argument that the pricing is a joke. Twice the price for the same or less performance? The entire card is a joke at that point. My opinion, and it's not going to change.
Click to expand...

Well, your opinion is spot on with fact, so you couldn't change it even if you wanted to. :p
 
Unknown-One said:
Wait... so you say the Titan Z doesn't make sense because of the heat it will produce, and then you suggest a card that puts out EVEN MORE heat as a better option?

I don't get it... :confused:
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the 295x2 puts the heat outside the case from the rad. I mean come on dont be stupid. You said you own an H100. You know the Rad is where the heat goes, and you mount it to exit the hot air out of the case.

Seriously man. Anyone who tries to go the itx route and watercools does the same thing. Not sure why you are saying you are confused. Unless you are playing the stupid role.

Either way IF (thats a big IF) you want to go a Titan Z or 295x2 in an ITX case the Titan Z is the wrong choice period. And that is before we even bring in the price for the card.
 
DASHlT said:
the 295x2 puts the heat outside the case from the rad. I mean come on dont be stupid. You said you own an H100. You know the Rad is where the heat goes, and you mount it to exit the hot air out of the case.
Click to expand...
I returned an H100i because it performed so poorly :p

And it's not uncommon to mount a radiator so that it blows INTO the case. All depends on how your cooling is set up. Blowing into the case means cooler air going into the radiator, which some people find works better.

And just like the Titan Z, the 295X2 drops heat both inside and outside the case. The Titan vents from both ends of the card, which already means nearly half the heat it generates never enters the case. The 295X2's on-card cooler includes a normal fan and heatsink that exhausts on all sides (the shroud is vented all the way around), so there's no getting around exhausting heat into the case with it, either.

Going with the 295X2 doesn't suddenly mean no heat gets into the case.

DASHlT said:
Seriously man. Anyone who tries to go the itx route and watercools does the same thing. Not sure why you are saying you are confused. Unless you are playing the stupid role.
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I personally never plan on going with water cooling, especially not in an ITX rig. Heatpipe coolers can butt right up against case openings, so there's not much point to water cooling (since you already have direct outside air paths).

DASHlT said:
Either way IF (thats a big IF) you want to go a Titan Z or 295x2 in an ITX case the Titan Z is the wrong choice period. And that is before we even bring in the price for the card.
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In what way is longer card that also requires trying to mount a giant water cooler in a tiny ITX case the better choice, physically?
 
Unknown-One said:
I returned an H100i because it performed so poorly :p

And it's not uncommon to mount a radiator so that it blows INTO the case. All depends on how your cooling is set up. Blowing into the case means cooler air going into the radiator, which some people find works better.

And just like the Titan Z, the 295X2 drops heat both inside and outside the case. The Titan vents from both ends of the card, which already means nearly half the heat it generates never enters the case. The 295X2's on-card cooler includes a normal fan and heatsink that exhausts on all sides (the shroud is vented all the way around), so there's no getting around exhausting heat into the case with it, either.

Going with the 295X2 doesn't suddenly mean no heat gets into the case.


I personally never plan on going with water cooling, especially not in an ITX rig. Heatpipe coolers can butt right up against case openings, so there's not much point to water cooling (since you already have direct outside air paths).


In what way is longer card that also requires trying to mount a giant water cooler in a tiny ITX case the better choice, physically?
Click to expand...

You should become a news reporter. You are really good at having an answer to anything, and spin any topic to your liking.

Good luck :)
 
t6et.jpg
 
Final8ty said:
t6et.jpg
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Nice, but that's on the large side for an ITX case.

Also, the radiator and fan are positioned to blow into the case... which means 100% of the heat generated by that R9 295X2 ends up inside the case, and has to be evacuated. I imagine DASHIT will tell you that build is doomed to failure and overheating any minute now :p
 
I have a NZXT G10 with a 240mm TT Water extreme 2.0 pulling air into my case on my overclocked 780 lightning. Not that big of a deal, if you have decent air flow.
 
Unknown-One said:
Nice, but that's on the large side for an ITX case.

Also, the radiator and fan are positioned to blow into the case... which means 100% of the heat generated by that R9 295X2 ends up inside the case, and has to be evacuated. I imagine DASHIT will tell you that build is doomed to failure and overheating any minute now :p
Click to expand...

Or they, you know, turned the fan around so the radiator dumps heat outside the case.
 
Face2Face said:
I have a NZXT G10 with a 240mm TT Water extreme 2.0 pulling air into my case on my overclocked 780 lightning. Not that big of a deal, if you have decent air flow.
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true, but decent airflow and a small itx case is very hard to come by, specially when trying to fit a titan Z or 295x2 and a PSU big enough to power those beasts.
 
Unknown-One said:
And just like the Titan Z, the 295X2 drops heat both inside and outside the case. The Titan vents from both ends of the card, which already means nearly half the heat it generates never enters the case. The 295X2's on-card cooler includes a normal fan and heatsink that exhausts on all sides (the shroud is vented all the way around), so there's no getting around exhausting heat into the case with it, either.

Going with the 295X2 doesn't suddenly mean no heat gets into the case.
Click to expand...

Here's what's cooled by the fan on the 295X2. The hottest components are cooled by the radiator, so if the rad is set to exhaust, I would feel pretty confident in saying that the Titan Z would heat up a tiny case more.
 
Face2Face said:
I have a NZXT G10 with a 240mm TT Water extreme 2.0 pulling air into my case on my overclocked 780 lightning. Not that big of a deal, if you have decent air flow.
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Except that's a 295X2, which throws out nearly twice as much heat as a GTX 780... into a smaller case. Comparison kinda breaks down a bit, there...

Spazturtle said:
Or they, you know, turned the fan around so the radiator dumps heat outside the case.
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Then the fan frame would be facing out, not the hub. With how it's positioned there, in that photo, it's blowing into the case.

Ozymandias said:
Here's what's cooled by the fan on the 295X2. The hottest components are cooled by the radiator, so if the rad is set to exhaust, I would feel pretty confident in saying that the Titan Z would heat up a tiny case more.
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Hard call, honestly. In the case of the 295X2, you have a giant metal plate pulling heat off of everything except the GPUs. All the RAM, all the power regulation, all the PCB heat (the GPUs also heat the PCB, which is out of reach of the water blocks), everything... and all that heat is being blown into the case. The GPUs are the hottest bit, but the VRMs and RAM throw off a good amount of heat all on their own.

On the Titan, exactly half of the components (one GPU, its power regulation, RAM, and other circuitry) have their heat immediately evacuated from the case out of the rear vents. The other half blows into the case.

Difference might not be as large as you think.
 
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Unknown-One said:
Except that's a 295X2, which throws out nearly twice as much heat as a GTX 780... into a smaller case. Comparison kinda breaks down a bit, there...


Then the fan frame would be facing out, not the hub. With how it's positioned there, in that photo, it's blowing into the case.


Hard call, honestly. In the case of the 295X2, you have a giant metal plate pulling heat off of everything except the GPUs. All the RAM, all the power regulation, all the PCB heat (the GPUs also heat the PCB, which is out of reach of the water blocks), everything... and all that heat is being blown into the case. The GPUs are the hottest bit, but the VRMs and RAM throw off a good amount of heat all on their own.

On the Titan, exactly half of the components (one GPU, its power regulation, RAM, and other circuitry) have their heat immediately evacuated from the case out of the rear vents. The other half blows into the case.

Difference might not be as large as you think.
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It's quite amazing that no matter what, you will find a way to belittle any positive words said about an AMD product. Did AMD kill your parents or something?
 
Unknown-One said:
Hard call, honestly. In the case of the 295X2, you have a giant metal plate pulling heat off of everything except the GPUs. All the RAM, all the power regulation, all the PCB heat (the GPUs also heat the PCB, which is out of reach of the water blocks), everything... and all that heat is being blown into the case. The GPUs are the hottest bit, but the VRMs and RAM throw off a good amount of heat all on their own.

On the Titan, exactly half of the components (one GPU, its power regulation, RAM, and other circuitry) have their heat immediately evacuated from the case out of the rear vents. The other half blows into the case.

Difference might not be as large as you think.
Click to expand...

The call, is anything but hard. The heat output of the GPU is exponentially higher than that of the VRM's or RAM. Run a bare GPU and see how long it lasts vs VRM's and RAM. The fact that you're even comparing them is a clear indication that the difference is far larger than you think.
 
RamonGTP said:
The call, is anything but hard. The heat output of the GPU is exponentially higher than that of the VRM's or RAM. Run a bare GPU and see how long it lasts vs VRM's and RAM. The fact that you're even comparing them is a clear indication that the difference is far larger than you think.
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The fact that he is comparing them is an indication that he is grasping at straws in order to justify the existence of the twice-the-price-but-performs-worse card made by his lord and saviour Nvidia.
 
Unknown-One said:
Except that's a 295X2, which throws out nearly twice as much heat as a GTX 780... into a smaller case. Comparison kinda breaks down a bit, there...


Then the fan frame would be facing out, not the hub. With how it's positioned there, in that photo, it's blowing into the case.


Hard call, honestly. In the case of the 295X2, you have a giant metal plate pulling heat off of everything except the GPUs. All the RAM, all the power regulation, all the PCB heat (the GPUs also heat the PCB, which is out of reach of the water blocks), everything... and all that heat is being blown into the case. The GPUs are the hottest bit, but the VRMs and RAM throw off a good amount of heat all on their own.

On the Titan, exactly half of the components (one GPU, its power regulation, RAM, and other circuitry) have their heat immediately evacuated from the case out of the rear vents. The other half blows into the case.

Difference might not be as large as you think.
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The Titan Z is an embarrassment to the gaming community and even to Nvidia. There is a reason why the release was low key and Nvidia refused to give test samples to the major hardware websites like [H] and Anandtech. Why are u wasting your time/effort to defend a product that Nvidia wants to forget?

Are you being paid to be this stupid and biased? I certainly hope so because at least there is some logic in that.

The Titan Z cost "TWO" times the cost of a 295x2 (which you said was overpriced). Aren't you pissed that Nvidia is trying to rape their own customers with the Titan Z?
 
Unknown-One said:
Nice, but that's on the large side for an ITX case.

Also, the radiator and fan are positioned to blow into the case... which means 100% of the heat generated by that R9 295X2 ends up inside the case, and has to be evacuated. I imagine DASHIT will tell you that build is doomed to failure and overheating any minute now :p
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Look at the fan again. It's going to spin clockwise and exhaust the air in that setup.
 
Relayer said:
Look at the fan again. It's going to spin clockwise and exhaust the air in that setup.
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I'm actually going to have to agree with Unknown-One in THIS instance. The blade orientation on that fan definitely looks like it's going to spin counter clockwise and blow into the case.
 
RamonGTP said:
The call, is anything but hard. The heat output of the GPU is exponentially higher than that of the VRM's or RAM. Run a bare GPU and see how long it lasts vs VRM's and RAM. The fact that you're even comparing them is a clear indication that the difference is far larger than you think.
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You're right, the GPU puts out far more heat than any other component. It's a shame you missed a KEY point I made in that post about GPU heat that the AIO water coolers cannot soak up.

It doesn't matter how well you cool the GPU, it will still leak heat into the PCB. And since it's such an intense heat source, it's actually a fair amount of heat (that then radiates into the case / cooling plate). Anyone who's mined for altcoins on a card with an AIO water cooler can vouch for this, the PCB itself gets blisteringly-hot even though the core is being cooled by a water block.

So, on the 295X2, you have ALL of the heat from the VRMs, ALL of the heat from the RAM, and a chunk of the heat from both GPU cores being dumped into the case no matter what (since they're handled by the fan, heatsink, and cooling plate mounted directly to the PCB).
On the Titan Z, almost-exactly half the card's heat is vented out the back of the case. Half the RAM, half the VRMs, and a GPU core.

So no, it's NOT a simple comparison. There are a lot of variables that narrow the gap as far as "absolute heat released into the case" goes on these two cards.

I'm comparing them based on their hardware. Everyone already knows the prices are out of whack *yawn*

KazeoHin said:
The fact that he is comparing them is an indication that he is grasping at straws in order to justify the existence of the twice-the-price-but-performs-worse card made by his lord and saviour Nvidia.
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Uh... what?

I said right from my first post that the price of the Titan Z was unacceptable... so you're wrong outright. I'm not trying to justify anything related to its price :rolleyes:

trungracingdev said:
Why are u wasting your time/effort to defend a product that Nvidia wants to forget?
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Because there's really nothing wrong with the product itself. The only problem is that it's priced too high for what it is.

This was, again, stated very early-on in this thread.

trungracingdev said:
The Titan Z cost "TWO" times the cost of a 295x2 (which you said was overpriced). Aren't you pissed that Nvidia is trying to rape their own customers with the Titan Z?
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I already said the price was too high... seriously, did you even read the thread? It sounds like you missed the first 2/3rds of it.

Also, Nvidia isn't forcing you to buy the Titan Z. Totally your own choice to dish out $3000 if you want the thing, so I'm not show how this equates with "rape" exactly :rolleyes:

We've also already established that neither the Titan Z nor the 295 X2 make much sense for ANYONE, and that a normal dual-card setup (either crossfire or SLI) makes more sense than either one in most circumstance... just in case you missed that too.
 
That's definitely an intake fan. It's in the front of the case, so it still promotes proper airflow. Just, not ideal.
 
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