PCIE Bifurcation

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by jb1, Jul 28, 2015.

  1. Man

    Man n00b

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    I got that it was a part from Ameri-Rack, but Google says they don't deal with end users. Google also says opposite :) Just wondered if you bought it from somewhere else like one would buy an Asus motherboard from Newegg and not directly from Asus. Anyways, how long is your riser? Do you find it to fit perfect or would you modify the length if you were to order a new one today? Are you able to boot from the nvme?
     
  2. -Tilde

    -Tilde n00b

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    Not chronodog, but the 2 way risers come in 5, 10, and 20cm ribbon lengths
     
  3. Man

    Man n00b

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    OK thanks :) I guess 10cm is the right one for the A4. Guess I'll have to order a couple for future usage as I can't find anything else anywhere. Would hate to see them become unavailable in the future when I actually need it :)
     
  4. -Tilde

    -Tilde n00b

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    I would think 20cm for a4? As you'd need to loop behind the motherboard which is 17cm, unless I'm mistaken with where you want to place the riser.
     
  5. Man

    Man n00b

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    Well, if you want to do it that way, I reckon you'd need something like 25cm as 20cm will be too small when counting the height of the riser pcb and bending of the flex cable.
    It seems the 5cm is the way to go if doing it the way chronodog does it. Come to think of it, it seems that even a trifurbication riser would fit. 1080ti+ NVME RAID :)
     
  6. ChronoDog

    ChronoDog [H]Lite

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    But... it's all answered in my post... :shifty:
    - 10cm (hence the "C10" in the name of the model)
    - It fits perfectly, as seen in the pictures I've posted...
    - Yes, I boot from it (what else would the "NVMe boot module" be for?)
     
  7. Man

    Man n00b

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    Thanks for the confirmation. Yeah you did kinda answer some of the questions, but I didn't want to make any assumptions ;) Do you think a trifurbication riser could fit (8x+4x+4x), assuming the third socket is spaced evenly spaced as the bifurbication riser? (One might need a thinner cooler for a second NVME)
     
  8. ChronoDog

    ChronoDog [H]Lite

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    If you mean whether it'd fit instead of the bifurcatred one in an A4-SFX with a full-sized graphics card, then definitely not.
    The bifurcated one is a pretty tight fit already, and it only fits where it does in my case thanks to a relatively small (height-wise) graphics card.
    If one were to use a low-profile graphics card - it would probably fit, though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  9. aquelito

    aquelito n00b

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    C_Payne thanks for the custom dual-slot riser !
    Put it to good use in my custom 14.5L enclosure, with two 240mm radiator cooling two GTX 1070 and an i7 6700K :)

    60XuZPll.jpg

    Vwm6wEyl.jpg

    qTXl6W6l.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  10. TheArkratos

    TheArkratos n00b

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    If I designed a case specifically meant for mini itx bifurcation (with the two PCI express slots facing opposite directions, so if you used SLI/Crossfire both GPUs could breath) would people be interested if I tried to do a limited production run?

    It would be using an amerirack riser and then a second riser to get them facing opposite directions.

    Does this sound like something we as a whole would be interested it? Because I'm sure I'm not the only one frustrated that no stock case will support bifurcation in any meaningful capacity...
     
  11. hyp36rmax

    hyp36rmax n00b

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    Where is the best place to buy an Amerirack riser?
     
  12. TheArkratos

    TheArkratos n00b

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    Email "sales@ameri-rack.com"

    I had the subject as "Purchase/quote"

    My email went like this:

    I am interested in purchasing the "6) ARC1-PERY423-C20(reversed, w/20cm ribbon to face over the board)".
    http://www.ameri-rack.com/ARC2-PELY423-C7_m.html

    The shipping address and billing address is:
    [My name]
    [My Address]

    Thank you,
    [My name]

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    they should email you back and give you a link to an invoice you can pay and then they'll ship it to you and email you the tracking info.
     
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  13. hyp36rmax

    hyp36rmax n00b

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    Thanks!!!
     
  14. davidm71

    davidm71 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hi,

    Anyone familiar with the AOC-SLG3-2M2 bifurcated m.2 dual card? Is this a plex card? Looks like it has a couple of circuits or chips on the card. Any of which being a clock buffer?

    Thanks
     
  15. C_Payne

    C_Payne [H]Lite

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    By taking a look at the pictures found, I can tell that it is a simple bifurcation card without a pcie packet switch (plex???).
    It has what I think is a clock buffer IC next to the front of the edge connector and some power supply circuitry next to the top m.2 slot.

    It does need BIOS bifurcation support to work.
     
  16. jahsoul

    jahsoul Gawd

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    I know this is the SFF forum, but I was wondering if anyone was able to mod the BIOS of a Supermicro motherboard? I've been trying to get this working on my X10DRL-CT but not getting anywhere. I changed the settings in AMIBCP and when I go to the BIOS, it shows 4x4x4x4 but when VMWare boots, it only sees 1 NVME. Just trying to see if anyone else has run into this.
     
  17. hyp36rmax

    hyp36rmax n00b

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    Are there any ATX motherboards that support bifurcation? Hear me out on this one first... ;)

    I have a proposed build with a Cooler Master MasterCase5 using a vertical gpu mount that only allows a single GPU. Wanted to mount a dual GPU setup with EK blocks utilizing an EK FC Terminal Dual Single slot and an Ameritrack riser. Are the only motherboards that support this generally ASROCK? Anything from ASUS?
     
  18. TheArkratos

    TheArkratos n00b

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    In my experience talking with ASUS reps at conventions and messaging them on twitter. They seem to not care at all about bifurcation, a good chunk of people I've talked to had no idea what it was and passed me along till I got someone that did, and he didn't seem to care if they supported it. As far as I know the only support ASUS has is for bifurcating a 16x slot into 4 M.2. On that front there are a decent amount of x399/x299 motherboards that support x16 into 4 x4, but I don't know of any that support 2 x8, doesn't mean they aren't out there just means I don't know of them.

    As for companies Asrock has the best support from what I can tell and Gigabyte has some itx that support bifurcation too.
     
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  19. C_Payne

    C_Payne [H]Lite

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    I just remembered the guy that had success modding a bios for bifurcation.
    Read:
    https://www.win-raid.com/t3323f16-Guide-How-to-Bifurcate-a-PCI-E-slot.html

    Two things come to my mind(maybe too obvious?): wrong IIO. Also did you do a full cmos reset after modding?
    When I am back from vacation I will try to experiment some more with bios modding too...
     
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  20. jahsoul

    jahsoul Gawd

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    From looking at the motherboard schematics in the user manual, it looks to be the correct one. Changed the setting in AMIBCP and then flipped a few bits using HxD and it shows up with the link speed for each port but then adding the card got me nothing. I reset the CMOS and nothing, so I'm diving to see if it was something that I missed. First time really getting into trying to mod a BIOS and it is taking some serious patience. Wish Supermicro just hooked me up with a beta BIOS.
     
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  21. C_Payne

    C_Payne [H]Lite

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    Keep digging!

    I meant IIO, not IOU :)
    From what I can see in davidm71 Pictures is that there are 4 IIO entries (4 CPUs would be my guess) with each 3 IOU (PCIe Ports)
    Maybe the entries are not in order, or for some other reason you chose the wrong IIO..

    Please elaborate... What do you mean with "shows up with link speed"?
     
  22. baskobar

    baskobar n00b

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    is it possible to split pci-e on matx x99 or x299 mobo?

    I need FOUR pci-e X8 speed each - especially in MATX size
     
  23. C_Payne

    C_Payne [H]Lite

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  24. C_Payne

    C_Payne [H]Lite

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    Quick Poll: Anyone interested in bifurcation BIOS hax for a particular Mainboard? (preferably ITX and preferably a bit older) I am going to buy one or two boards for my hacking attempts to enable bifurcation on non supported MoBos.
    Maybe someone has some unused hardware to sell/donate?!?
     
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  25. Neapolitan6th

    Neapolitan6th Gawd

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    Oh how fun! My vote would be something like the Asus X470ITX (or X370). Its basicly the best AM4 ITX motherboard. I would choose it over the Z370 variant because the AM4 socket will still have a couple of new CPU generations supported on it. Bad thing is those are a bit pricey.

    2nd vote would be any older asus ITX motherboard, which might let you experiment without risking newer hardware.
     
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  26. FredomFM

    FredomFM n00b

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    I would also be for the x470i.
    I've used the second m.2 slot (on the back of the board) with a riser for a second gpu. And noticed that it uses the lanes of the main PCI-e slot which than runs on x8.
    The Asus support only said that bifurcation is not planned, when I asked them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  27. Josh415

    Josh415 n00b

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    Amazing work on this topic and to everyone that got working pcs. I'm looking at setting up in a Lian li pc-o5 and using all the slots. So a trifurcation card would be amazing. Something that was x4x4x8 so the graphics could be by the window. I could run a nic and a thunderbolt card off the other two slots.

    I guess my two big questions are: would I be looking at needing addition power on the rise riser?
    And is anyone else interested in a triple card?
     
  28. davidm71

    davidm71 [H]ard|Gawd

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    So I tried to bifurcate mod the latest and probably last bios version 190 for the Msi X99 Godlike, and had issues with Windows 10 loading past the spinning wheel stage. I even reverted back to the unmodded version of 190 and had the same problem. This was with a Plextor M8Pey nvme drive. A Samsung 950 Pro is running as the primary drive on the M.2 port. Unlike my modded 195 beta version my second nvme that runs through a supermicro bifurcated adapter loads its legacy option rom post message. Kind of weird I dont see that on the 195 beta. Also interesting to note that couple years ago I noticed the same issue when I tried to add that very same Plextor drive unto the same system on an empty pcie slot on an older bios release. So I dont know if its the same issue or not. Anyone have any suggestions on how to dig further and see where the hiccup is occuring?

    Thanks.
     
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  29. 3vilgenius

    3vilgenius n00b

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    Hey I'm planning on doing a dual itx GPU build, similar to the MaximumBurrito 's dual r9 nano build. Could any one who is running two gpu's in an itx system let me know what wattage PSU they're using. I bought a SF600 gold and I don't planning on doing any water cooling or anything but I'm hoping that would be enough. Has anyone checked how much power they're pulling from a system with two itx gpu's?
     
  30. Neapolitan6th

    Neapolitan6th Gawd

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    I'm thinking it could be done, but I'm also thinking you'd be wise to undervolt anything you can. Those Fury cards love power if you don't keep them on a leash.

    I know Silverstone will be releasing a 700 watt SFX unit at some point that they have already shown off. And of course they already have their 800 watt SFX-L unit if that fits in your case.

    EVGA just announced a 650 SFX PSU, but I feel that would be a sidegrade.
     
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  31. Apathy_Enthusiast

    Apathy_Enthusiast n00b

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    Anyone been able to test NVLINK with bifurcation? I have not read any reviews comparing 8x PCIe 3.0 vs 16x with RTX series.
     
  32. Neapolitan6th

    Neapolitan6th Gawd

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    Gamer's Nexus has an article on it: Link

    It seems depending on your load, there is a 0%-15% performance loss by x8x8 vs x16x16. Not bad all things considered.
     
  33. design4paragon

    design4paragon n00b

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    That looks like my CAD model on grabcad.
     
  34. TechTach

    TechTach n00b

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    Hey C_Payne! I would like to hire you for a very interesting X79 and X99 development project for 10+GPU setup.
    Please shoot me a PM so I can give you more information and introduce our company to you.
    Cheers!
     
  35. C_Payne

    C_Payne [H]Lite

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    @Everyone:

    If anyone is interested in bifurcated Risers
    You can reach me:

    risers@peine-braun.net


    TechTach: Can't PM you, please write an email to above adress and provide further details.
     
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  36. TechTach

    TechTach n00b

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    Email sent.
    Thanks for getting in touch so fast.
     
  37. TheArkratos

    TheArkratos n00b

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    With threadripper you could technically get 4 + 4 + 2 + 3 + 1 GPUs on most motherboards. On most boards each 16x slot can be configured to run 4x4, then you have the two 8x slots, 3 M.2 which can be broken back into 4x slots, then finally some boards offer an additional 4x PCIe 2.0 through the chipset.

    I'd love to see a 14 non-mining GPU set up off a non-server CPU :p
     
  38. amback

    amback n00b

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    Has anyone here tried doing a 4-way sli with the latest 2080ti using Bifurcation?, is it possible to do it without a sli bride/nvlink or do we need one?

    a few questions that i got are

    1. If we take the 1 x16 and split it into 2 x8 and connect 2 2080ti, do we need to also connect an sli bridge between the 2 2080ti?

    2. Has anyone done this setup to do a 4-way sli with the latest 20s series gpus?

    3. which latest amd or intel motherboard can i use use to support it, i heard lots asrock motherboards has support for it.
     
  39. C_Payne

    C_Payne [H]Lite

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    My custom Risers made it to CES ;)

    CES2019.png
     
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  40. C_Payne

    C_Payne [H]Lite

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    If you have that kind of money to spend I will gladly try to help you out ;) Just not sure what the application will be.
    In theory there is no difference between using two x8 Slots on the motherboard vs. splitting one x16.