PCIe 5.0 SSDs - der8auer

The newer gen boards with multiple Nvme drives can heat saturate the massive heatsinks on the board if not actively cooled when 2 or more Nvme drives are installed and using an AIO for cpu cooling. I saw this on my X570 board with 2 Gen4 Phison controlled Nvmes in a raid 0 and that board had a chipset fan that was easily overwhelmed by the heat output of those controllers. The chipset and controllers reached 92C at one point while I was flight simming causing sudden massive stuttering after 20 minutes of MSFS 2020 in VR. Initially I thought the GPU was the problem but a hysteresis of temps revealed it was the chipset and Nvmes that were throttling. I rigged up a ghetto 120mm fan pointed directly at the main board chipset heat sink that remains in place today.
 
learners permit said:
The newer gen boards with multiple Nvme drives can heat saturate the massive heatsinks on the board if not actively cooled when 2 or more Nvme drives are installed and using an AIO for cpu cooling. I saw this on my X570 board with 2 Gen4 Phison controlled Nvmes in a raid 0 and that board had a chipset fan that was easily overwhelmed by the heat output of those controllers. The chipset and controllers reached 92C at one point while I was flight simming causing sudden massive stuttering after 20 minutes of MSFS 2020 in VR. Initially I thought the GPU was the problem but a hysteresis of temps revealed it was the chipset and Nvmes that were throttling. I rigged up a ghetto 120mm fan pointed directly at the main board chipset heat sink that remains in place today.
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yeah, with custom/aio setups you do need to make sure things are getting airflow from somewhere. i think it might have been Happy Hopping that was worried about that, with some merit it seems.
 
HW info made solving the issue quite easy otherwise it could have been easily misconstrued as the damn Amd drivers again!🤣
 
learners permit said:
The newer gen boards with multiple Nvme drives can heat saturate the massive heatsinks on the board if not actively cooled when 2 or more Nvme drives are installed and using an AIO for cpu cooling. I saw this on my X570 board with 2 Gen4 Phison controlled Nvmes in a raid 0 and that board had a chipset fan that was easily overwhelmed by the heat output of those controllers. The chipset and controllers reached 92C at one point while I was flight simming causing sudden massive stuttering after 20 minutes of MSFS 2020 in VR. Initially I thought the GPU was the problem but a hysteresis of temps revealed it was the chipset and Nvmes that were throttling. I rigged up a ghetto 120mm fan pointed directly at the main board chipset heat sink that remains in place today.
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that's exactly my pt. I just receive 2 x MARS fan from Inwin, holy, those 2 fan are heavy, they are pure Al, good thing the frame of the PC is thick Al as well. This is 1 good reason passive cooling on Gen 5 NVMe won't work, look at all the new motherboards, that so called heatsink is the bare min.

I was setup a ASRock B600 series motherboard over the weekend, that "heatsink" is a joke. It's nothing but a plate w/ a pack of gum beneath it. The Asus Z890 heatsink, quite frankly, I have no faith in it. The video I psot on the other thread has the 60mm active cooling fan that mount to the NMVe heatsink does bring the temperature down to 25 deg. C. And I just bought 2 of them from ebay. As soon as I order a few more 60mm cooling fan from Noctua, I would be able to do an A/B test comparison on these NVMe drive's temperature

The other thing about all these is that I've done some research on this subject from those folks at overclock.net, that thermal pad is the key. The best thermal pad is very expensive, but it's a one and done solution. Which means if you own one, you better be set for a few yr. w/ a Gen 5 NVMe and the right side TB drive, because you can't re-use / re-sit those thermal pad, and the ones from Asus, or the ones that c/w these heatsink, they don't worth the postage you pay for.

In the end, you're as strong as your weakest link, the heatsink has to be good, and the thermal pad has to work w/ the heatsink, if that thermal pad is a piece of junk, w/ fake mk/W no., like those fake no. from Newegg on that Aliexpress brand ENLab: Don't waste your time
 
I aint got need for them so its no biggie. The law of diminishing returns kicked in when I fired up my first PCIe-3 NVMe drive and was underwhelmed at how 3500MBps felt over 500MBps SATA.

Meh!
 
daglesj said:
I aint got need for them so its no biggie. The law of diminishing returns kicked in when I fired up my first PCIe-3 NVMe drive and was underwhelmed at how 3500MBps felt over 500MBps SATA.

Meh!
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yeah you only really see it in sustained transfers. the only ssd that feels better is an optane drive because of their random 4k read speeds.
 
Happy Hopping said:
I was setup a ASRock B600 series motherboard over the weekend, that "heatsink" is a joke. It's nothing but a plate w/ a pack of gum beneath it. The Asus Z890 heatsink, quite frankly, I have no faith in it. The video I psot on the other thread has the 60mm active cooling fan that mount to the NMVe heatsink does bring the temperature down to 25 deg. C. And I just bought 2 of them from ebay. As soon as I order a few more 60mm cooling fan from Noctua, I would be able to do an A/B test comparison on these NVMe drive's temperature
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add normal case fan airflow too please, to see if they can get by without direct.
 
well, when everything arrives in China, I'll take a photo of the before and after. I have temperature sensor metal taped on those 3 SSD in the past few years.
 
daglesj said:
I aint got need for them so its no biggie. The law of diminishing returns kicked in when I fired up my first PCIe-3 NVMe drive and was underwhelmed at how 3500MBps felt over 500MBps SATA.

Meh!
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the problem are:

1) you can't buy PCIe 3 anymore, not to mention the price of PCIe Generation 4 is the same price as Gen 3. Further, eventually Gen 4 PCIe drive will be discontinued

2) As soon as you upgrade to a Gen 4 or Gen 5 drive , say you upgrade from 1TB to 2TB, you would be do a file copy of all files of your old 1TB say, to the new 2TB. How hot do you think that drive will be when you are done?
 
Happy Hopping said:
the problem are:

1) you can't buy PCIe 3 anymore, not to mention the price of PCIe Generation 4 is the same price as Gen 3. Further, eventually Gen 4 PCIe drive will be discontinued

2) As soon as you upgrade to a Gen 4 or Gen 5 drive , say you upgrade from 1TB to 2TB, you would be do a file copy of all files of your old 1TB say, to the new 2TB. How hot do you think that drive will be when you are done?
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Not hot enough to matter.
 
Happy Hopping said:
you can't buy PCIe 3 anymore
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you can, theres a bunch on amazon still but the big names are getting to be less and less. the crucial i had a few years ago is still for sale. yes you are right though that eventually you wont be able to get them, but were not there quiet yet.
 
Yeah i got PCIe 3 drives in my Amazon wishlist still.

But yes I mainly use enterprise Optanes for my main drives.

My next 9900X build after Xmas will be 375GB P4800X Optane for my Windows drive. 750GB P4800X Optane for my Eve online/Topaz image software and other non Steam games. 100GB Optane P1600X NVMe for my Pagefile/Cache drive. I have my Steam drive on a 2TB Crucial SATA SSD cos I dont have the NVMe slots currently but I might copy that over to a name brand 2TB QLC NVMe if I can be bothered later on.

Yeah could be better, faster, bigger but I have the stuff laying around already.
 
pendragon1 said:
you can, theres a bunch on amazon still but the big names are getting to be less and less. the crucial i had a few years ago is still for sale. yes you are right though that eventually you wont be able to get them, but were not there quiet yet.
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but look, this is Gen 3 Crucial P3 1TB from Amazon a $57.89:

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PCIe...&sprefix=crucial+ssd+plus,aps,183&sr=8-4&th=1

and this is Gen 4 Crucial P3 Plus 1TB from Amazon a $59.99:

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Plus...&sprefix=crucial+ssd+plus,aps,183&sr=8-3&th=1

only $2 difference , in short Gen 3 is out.
 
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Happy Hopping said:
but look, this is Gen 3 Crucial P3 1TB from Amazon a $57.89:

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PCIe-NAND-NVMe-3500MB/dp/B0B25LZGGW/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2PPYJZ4E09FBT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.gWMHeuGH9Xo9dYAxoHB7wAXkqCFEuRv3xwpLgabMxrr3hG27XJ301MYKBX0pJ93_13KHLKcFLFjKt-Xq_xbxxFb0OJAsVFK9Y4STxjvTjW9Vq6WjhYGBVu4eNsOs_mNJ2yCZpQcse05kf5a6auIRdvLzGaIo17D4N7CXBA-reV5xk2QAngB0WiO77ZnXSBSVUecHjm1LClOPhhECvALe4iRii1CEHGZaas13gvUM9-A.tIt4LiKDjsK4rB-Fqpf7LCfb01IJEypxMOTLxM3KJpI&dib_tag=se&keywords=crucial+ssd+plus&qid=1731348772&sprefix=crucial+ssd+plus,aps,183&sr=8-4&th=1

and this is Gen 4 Crucial P3 Plus 1TB from Amazon a $59.99:

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Plus-PCIe-NAND-5000MB/dp/B0B25NXWC7/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2PPYJZ4E09FBT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.gWMHeuGH9Xo9dYAxoHB7wAXkqCFEuRv3xwpLgabMxrr3hG27XJ301MYKBX0pJ93_13KHLKcFLFjKt-Xq_xbxxFb0OJAsVFK9Y4STxjvTjW9Vq6WjhYGBVu4eNsOs_mNJ2yCZpQcse05kf5a6auIRdvLzGaIo17D4N7CXBA-reV5xk2QAngB0WiO77ZnXSBSVUecHjm1LClOPhhECvALe4iRii1CEHGZaas13gvUM9-A.tIt4LiKDjsK4rB-Fqpf7LCfb01IJEypxMOTLxM3KJpI&dib_tag=se&keywords=crucial+ssd+plus&qid=1731348772&sprefix=crucial+ssd+plus,aps,183&sr=8-3&th=1

only $2 difference , in short Gen 3 is out.
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i was addressing the specific point, thats why its all i quoted.
 
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What I want to know is where are all the direct storage games that utilize these fast nvme speeds? I know D4 is one of them but shit if I can tell. There is still loading screens like usual.
 
jarablue said:
What I want to know is where are all the direct storage games that utilize these fast nvme speeds? I know D4 is one of them but shit if I can tell. There is still loading screens like usual.
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gotta get on those truck sims ;) the list is pretty small still...
https://steamdb.info/tech/SDK/DirectStorage/

1731461172489.png
 
And that more games than I thought had it implemented (only Forspoken and Ratchet & Clank made it to my radar.... and got some directstorage noise out of their release I feel like)

Ghost of Tsushima loading is extraordinary, but I am not sure how much direct storage is responsible for it, it was specially good on the ps4.

Looking at some benchmark, Horizon forbidden west seem able to scale back loading time from 3.5 gb/s nvme with a 7.4 gb/s nvme by a significant amount which is really good and not something that was common in the past, if those youtube comp video are legit.
 
jarablue said:
What I want to know is where are all the direct storage games that utilize these fast nvme speeds? I know D4 is one of them but shit if I can tell. There is still loading screens like usual.
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I think its fallen off for now, due to the fact that extra performance comes from somewhere, GPU or CPU. And can therefore actually hurt in-game performance, in some cases.
 
Now that we have establish these Gen4 to Gen 5 m.2 needs heatsink, I've been thinking: how does today's laptop manage to use these m.2 SSD on their line of laptop w/o over heating, as I don't see any of them that has the proper heatsink? As these M.2 are easily 3 to 5 yr. warranty, so I wonder when the 3 major brand: HP, Lenovo and Dell tag on a 1 yr. warranty, that they are hoping these m.2 doesn't need warranty replacement during the 1 yr., and after that, an overheated SSD is none of their business
 
Happy Hopping said:
Now that we have establish these Gen4 to Gen 5 m.2 needs heatsink, I've been thinking: how does today's laptop manage to use these m.2 SSD on their line of laptop w/o over heating, as I don't see any of them that has the proper heatsink? As these M.2 are easily 3 to 5 yr. warranty, so I wonder when the 3 major brand: HP, Lenovo and Dell tag on a 1 yr. warranty, that they are hoping these m.2 doesn't need warranty replacement during the 1 yr., and after that, an overheated SSD is none of their business
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I've got no issues with using a 4TB SN850X in a laptop. My 8TB SN850X's installed in my desktop also don't have heatsinks. One of them is under the 4090, and only see about 60C or so when gaming. Max temp seen was 79C when transferring a lot of files over while gaming (max operating temp per spec sheet is 85C). The one not directly under the 4090 has seen a max temp of 66C (again, no heatsink - but my case airflow is superb).

It does appear that high end PCIE5 NVME drives do run considerably hotter than most PCIE4 NVME drives.
 
Happy Hopping said:
to be fair, even at PCIe 4.0, 60C or 79C or 66C is very high to me
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Sure. The max operating temperature per the spec sheet is 85C, so it's perfectly fine.

Kind of like how 100C (typically 110 to 120C or so is the rated max) is perfectly fine for VRM components on GPUs and motherboards. So someone complaining about 70C in their airflow starved case is actually just fine.
 
arestavo said:
Sure. The max operating temperature per the spec sheet is 85C, so it's perfectly fine.

Kind of like how 100C (typically 110 to 120C or so is the rated max) is perfectly fine for VRM components on GPUs and motherboards. So someone complaining about 70C in their airflow starved case is actually just fine.
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I have 3 drive. I use Chnl. 1 to 3 of the temperature sensor of my fan controller to metal tape to Drive 1 to 3 on the heatsink of my 3 NVMe so I can monitor the temperature. This photo is taken a min. ago, as you can see, I am at : 38.4 C, 38.4 C, 43.7 C, and I thought 43.7 C is still high, so I bought 2 x active heatsink and 2 x in Win MARS fan for my own Xmas gift to bring down to the range of 25 to 30 deg. C
 

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Happy Hopping said:
I have 3 drive. I use Chnl. 1 to 3 of the temperature sensor of my fan controller to metal tape to Drive 1 to 3 on the heatsink of my 3 NVMe so I can monitor the temperature. This photo is taken a min. ago, as you can see, I am at : 38.4 C, 38.4 C, 43.7 C, and I thought 43.7 C is still high, so I bought 2 x active heatsink and 2 x in Win MARS fan for my own Xmas gift to bring down to the range of 25 to 30 deg. C
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It all depends on how you decide to look at it.

Anything over absolute zero is pretty high. To each their own, but if it's within specifications, I'm not sweating it (this is coming from a dude who worked on military radios for 20 years). Personally, I'm impressed by how cool (yes, relatively) these SN850Xs are - especially the one chilling directly under a 650W (yes, overclocked) 4090 is.

Maybe if you keep on requiring computer parts be very cold (relatively), you'll wind up just water cooling Gen 4/5 drives? Expensive, absolutely not needed, but it would net you the results that you crave.
 
when it comes to water cooling, I'm in the camp w/ Govt. of California, that they banned all those "wet water" and related items due to cancer. (I downloaded their spreadsheet). So I stick to fan cooling
 
Happy Hopping said:
when it comes to water cooling, I'm in the camp w/ Govt. of California, that they banned all those "wet water" and related items due to cancer. (I downloaded their spreadsheet). So I stick to fan cooling
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lol ok... you realize that basically every component in your pc causes cancer according to cali. better throw it away...
 
pendragon1 said:
lol ok... you realize that basically every component in your pc causes cancer according to cali. better throw it away...
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I live in the UK, am a lefty (a proper old fashioned one, not the new style corporate bootlicker blue hair types) but even I know Newsom aint got anyone's best intentions but his own. Yeah word gets around.
 
so I finally have time to install my In Win Mars, it took some time to test fit which 120mm fan spot I should use. In the end, I mount it next to the 2 x SSD. It pays to have a case that has 120mm fan slot thru out the entire case. This case actually c/w 3 x 120 at the top, 3 x 120mm at the front, 3 x 120mm at the bottom , and 1 x 120 at the rear.

The In Win Mars has 3 screw slot, w/ the 4th one taken by the Al blade itself. I have to use 3 x hexagon motherboard type silver screw to mount the in Win (see photos above)

You can see from photo 1 that the 120mm In Win is blowing cool air at both of my SSD. You can see from the last photo, the temperature now drops to 29.7 deg C and 30.3 deg. C by having cool air on those 2 SSD

But from Post #26, my previous temperature on those 2 SSD is 38.4 deg. C and 43.7 deg. C
 
wait a minute, it's 1 of you people tell me to buy the Kapton for that purpose a few yr. ago
 
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