"By a large" I notice that most of the time it's not Windows. It's the person using it. Education is the key. Then again I don't mind, because it's Average Joe that keeps me paid and happy. The reason Macs (Which are PC's BTW) "Just work" is because they are so proprietary. For your average idiot this is okay, but comes at a price. You cannot customize an OSX based PC like you can a Windows based PC. Case in point every single person I know IRL that has a Mac also has a computer running Windows, or Workstation Fusion with a Windows VM.
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PC versus Mac
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
"By a large" I notice that most of the time it's not Windows. It's the person using it. Education is the key. Then again I don't mind, because it's Average Joe that keeps me paid and happy. The reason Macs (Which are PC's BTW) "Just work" is because they are so proprietary. For your average idiot this is okay, but comes at a price. You cannot customize an OSX based PC like you can a Windows based PC. Case in point every single person I know IRL that has a Mac also has a computer running Windows, or Workstation Fusion with a Windows VM.
zero2dash
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2007
- Messages
- 6,100
Don't you be talkin' 'bout my dreds now.
Good point. Hey that's what I've been saying!
...and again.
...and again.
[touches white G5 keyboard]
Oh no I has fruit cooties nao
[calls dr., makes appt. for shotz]
(Oh btw if you're curious)
-LC475 running System 7, updated to System 7.5
-PowerMac 7100/100 running OS8, upgraded to OS9
-iMac G3 233 rev B running OS9
-PowerMac G5 1.8 single running 10.4.11
We're geeks, you idiot, "nerds" are passe...
I was quoting someone else from a few replies ago. I also prefer the term geek too, lol
See, there's the thing. heatless said something similar: Macs don't make him money. They don't make him any money because he's put himself on a path whereby it isn't possible for him to make money with Macs. It's not because he can't, but because he's chosen not to. And then the argument is "well, Windows makes me money, and Macs don't". I could say the same about picking cotton. It's not my job; I don't pick cotton, therefore I make no money picking cotton. I have no expectations about making money picking cotton, either, because I don't do it. See how that works? It's the most basic, most fundamental cause and effect relationship you can imagine.
If you want to make money with Apple hardware, you can. Make an OS X program. Write an iPhone/iPad app. Service/repair Macs. Plenty of ways to do it, but you have to opt to do it. It doesn't just happen magically. If you want a "Mac fanboy" to pay your salary, I'm sure you'd have no trouble getting yourself in a position where that's possible.
Because that's the ideal way to go. I have a Windows PC and an iMac which recently replaced a Mac mini. They run side-by-side. Every so often I boot the PC into Ubuntu, but not often. The Mac always boots into OS X.
Could I run OS X exclusively? Sure. Would I be missing out on things if I did? Sure. Just as those running Windows exclusively miss out on things offered on OS X. It goes both ways.
Your perception of Macs and OS X appears to be based almost entirely on commercials and advertisements. Do you also attempt to gauge the taste and texture of a steak when you watch an Outback Steakhouse commercial (or whatever)?
You do realize that, when you were writing this post, you were using your PC as a tool to write a post about how you use your PC as a tool and how Mac owners do not. You claim the Mac owners making posts in response to your posts aren't using their Macs as a tool but merely as something which makes them feel "special".
Didn't really think that one through, did you?
zero2dash
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2007
- Messages
- 6,100
Obviously - I can go buy a Mac Pro and replace my i7 with one if I wanted to, and then the Mac Pro would be making me money.
The point is - you asked if I'm posting because I don't care how I'm perceived, and I explained yes, and why. I built my Windows PC because it was less than 1/2 the price of a baseline Mac Pro. Plus I like to tinker anyway; you can't really tinker with a Mac because you don't get to build the Mac - it's done for you. You also can't overclock the Mac.
Instead of being in the red from still paying off the Mac Pro, I'm in the black from spending less money on a Windows PC I built myself. Creative Suite is Creative Suite; an AI file opens up on either platform, it doesn't matter which one it's created on and it doesn't matter which one it's copied to, as long as either a) the type is outlined or b) you have the fonts available (if you're working with type).
I never said I couldn't make money on Mac hardware.
Maybe, I can't really think of anything off the top of my head that I could do in OSX that I can't do in Windows. The ONLY thing that comes to mind is that one program (I forget the name) that is used for professional video editing and the like. It's not After Effects, because I have that on Windows.
For example: I can work, play any game I want to, change hardware, etc. Sure you can play more games on OSX now with Steam, but it's only what Steam games are offered on OSX, and you can't just go out and buy a new video card whenever you fancy. I know not every OSX user fits the bill of a "typical Mac user" but most do.
I use to know some one who owned a "high-end" Apple, and he use to honestly get mad because my sig rig could blow his perfect and ridiculously expensive Apple out of the water in certain apps. He had zero concept of hardware, and thought, it was Apple so it's perfect. It had a 2.66GHz Core 2 Quad with 8gigs of Ram I think. Compare that to my sig rig.
I don't know, like most, I just really hate the typical Mac user attitude. You can get a Mac, sure it may not break as easy, the learning curve is lower, but you are quite limited on what you can do. You can get a Windows based PC and practically do whatever you want, but the learning curve is a lot higher, and it is easier to break something.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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- Nov 5, 2005
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- 44,154
No, I base my opinions of technology based on features, cost, and ease of use. Advertising from any company is by nature is deceptive so I don't get my opinions of ANYTHING from that source alone, but do I form opinions of the companies themselves. Those "Mac vs PC" ads were so full of half-truths and deceptions that at that point I formed a negative opinion of Apple. But the Macs are more fun one was a FLAT OUT LIE.
I came to that conclusion come from looking at Macs and comparing their digital entertainment abilities to PCs. Not even the biggest Mac fan that's got an once of honesty is going to recommend a Mac as a gaming and broad based digital entertainment platform, not without a copy of Windows.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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You've got this backwards. I chose a carrer in business software development and businesses just don't use Macs like PCs. I didn't pick the platform, the market did. It's as simple as that. And once again, remember I started making money with Microsoft tech BEFORE I bought anything and I simply don't buy much Microsoft branded stuff. Anyone that bought just a single MBP in the last decade has spent as much or more on Apple branded stuff as I have on Microsoft branded stuff.
Once again, no you don't have to opt to do anything besides make a buck. You keep putting the cart before the horse. The platform is irrelavent, the market isn't. You don't pick the platform, the market does.
So evangelize! What's so cool and awesome that can be done on OS X that can't be done on Windows and makes your life a little easier or a little more fun? It's a serious question.
BladeVenom
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2005
- Messages
- 7,707
I don't own a Mac, but Garage Band looks nice. iLife looks a lot better than Windows Live Essentials.
What is Microsoft equivalent software to Garage Band?
There are dozens of companies producing business-related software for Macs. Always have been. You chose (I'm assuming) to work for a company that produces business software for Windows. The path you've taken in life was not set for you by Microsoft. It was not dictated purely by the market; it was dictated by the decisions you made.
It wasn't magical. You made a choice. As I said, you could make money with Macs if you want to, but it doesn't happen magically. I can't even believe we're disagreeing about such a simple, painfully obvious thing here.
It's mostly the array of applications that I prefer to those on Windows, not specifically capability. Things, a GTD program, that I can sync back and forth from my iPhone (and iPad if I felt like blowing $20). Colloquy, an IRC client with spellcheck built-in and bouncing capabilities (which, again, I use to bounce IRC connections from my Mac to the iPhone/iPad). I prefer working with Photoshop and Illustrator on OS X because I can utilize system search functions in the file save/file open dialogues. Seems like a minor difference, but a big help. I get system-wide functionality for my multi-touch mouse. I get Xcode for development which I vastly prefer to any Windows-based development environment, and I've tried damn near all of them. Transmission, a BitTorrent client that has the capability to auto-sort and auto-tag torrents based on the tracker URL, among other things, and one of the best web UIs I've used built-in. There's Pro Tools, which runs significantly better in OS X than it does on Windows (not due to Windows, but that's just the nature of it). I also get some excellent audio tools that I use on a daily basis like Peak and Wave Editor (WaveLab for Windows is similar to these but is generally unintuitive and clunky).
I could go on. The fact of the matter is that I don't define my experience of using computers down to a feature list. OS X supports fewer things than Windows and has support for fewer features, but that doesn't mean my experience has been negatively impacted because of that. With both OS X and Windows machines, I have a much wider selection of software I can use than you have access to and I tend to pick what I feel are the best tools for the job. More often than not, the best tools for the job are for OS X.
I have a bond with my PC! I built it myself, I know inside and out and I use it every damn day for several hours. It's my entertainment and friend... don't judge me.
Your PC may only be a "tool", mine is a hell of a lot more than that. In fact I like my PC more than a typically Apple fanboy likes Steve Jobs.
In your opinion...
Having worked (and played) on both, I prefer PCs and dread working on the G5.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
- Joined
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- Messages
- 18,416
Microsoft doesn't have a Garage Band equivalent, you need to look to Sony for that.
Of course it's my opinion.
I'm certain Microsoft could add in a lot of really cool and very functional and quite useful tools to Windows just as Apple has added to OSX over the years, but... unfortunately, companies like Apple, or Sony, or Adobe, or hordes of others would just whine forever about that "monopoly" again and then Microsoft would suffer for it in the long run.
Hell, they've never stopped suffering for it and honestly the only people that seem to be hurt by all that monopolistic talk are consumers because that alone stifled more innovation and potentially "cool stuff" than anything Microsoft was ever accused of, proven or not.
Funny how that works...
Hell, they've never stopped suffering for it and honestly the only people that seem to be hurt by all that monopolistic talk are consumers because that alone stifled more innovation and potentially "cool stuff" than anything Microsoft was ever accused of, proven or not.
Funny how that works...
You realize that all of the things phide listed were third party and would have nothing to do with Microsoft's monopoly status, do you?
Yes, that is what I wrote...
You do realize that you constantly pouncing on my posts is tantamount to stalking, don't you?
And as usual, you missed the point of my post entirely, no surprises there I suppose. Happens pretty much every time you follow one of mine up...
And monopolies aren't illegal in and of themselves. Even years later with so many other browsers out there and available freely, Microsoft still finds itself catering to groups like the EU just because they feel like tossing around their weight and it's a bit ridiculous. As if consumers can't figure out that other browsers are available themselves - they don't need some overbearing agency or organization deciding what's best for them, now do they?
He did the same to me early on in this thread so I just watched... now to add some fun!
For more Apple vs PC fun, Dell just put their comparisons up for Back-to-School.
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/apple-comparison?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
"Apples to Apples" HAHAHAHA That's great... why do I get the impression that Microsoft page has got something started with the OEMs?
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
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- 44,154
I don't know what your work history is but you simply haven't worked in the business software world, at least not as long as I have. Dozens of companies? That's squat. There lots of businesses that develop internally, that's what I'm doing now. We have 300,000 Windows desktops. Find me a business that has 300,000 Macs deployed. You are simply ignoring the realities of the market place. The jobs for what I do simply don't exist on anywhere near the size and scale for Macs. I have tailored my skills around the market, not around platforms, and that's why I still have a good paying job and can get others easily even in todays economy. Not like ten years ago but in less than a month I'll more than likely find another job paying as much or maybe even a little more if I were to go contract.
Experience, features, whatever you want to call it, can the thing do what I want or need that's the point. Macs have traditionally been a musicians platform so no suprise that the tools are better than. Like it shouldn't be a suprise that for general purpose business that the tools are better for Windows. As far as breadth of software, sure if you use both Macs and Windows you can run more. But there's also leverage. With all of my PCs running Windows 7, everything is seamless and works together. Like OneNote, I take notes on my desktops, my tablet, my netbook and it all fits like a glove. Add something else to the mix and then it has to be integrated and it may or may not be worth it. The breath of Windows software fills everything I need or want so I need a VERY compelling reason to use something else. If the need arises then so be it.
The most basic point works out to something like this...
PC Owner using Windows: "I can do what you can do, effectively everything, and I can do it for less cost."
Mac Owner using OSX: "Well... that might be true but, you won't look nearly as good doing it."
Now someone tell me I'm wrong.
PC Owner using Windows: "I can do what you can do, effectively everything, and I can do it for less cost."
Mac Owner using OSX: "Well... that might be true but, you won't look nearly as good doing it."
Now someone tell me I'm wrong.
You do realize that you constantly pouncing on my posts is tantamount to stalking, don't you?
And as usual, you missed the point of my post entirely, no surprises there I suppose. Happens pretty much every time you follow one of mine up...
And monopolies aren't illegal in and of themselves. Even years later with so many other browsers out there and available freely, Microsoft still finds itself catering to groups like the EU just because they feel like tossing around their weight and it's a bit ridiculous. As if consumers can't figure out that other browsers are available themselves - they don't need some overbearing agency or organization deciding what's best for them, now do they?
Yeah I don't know why I bother. It's like talking to a brick wall. So tell me what was your point? You posted after phide, so I made the assumption you were talking about phide's lists of Apple-based software with more features than Microsoft-based software.
Go ahead and backpedal.
And I'm well aware of what monopolies are and I'm also aware of the fact that Microsoft was wrongfully accused of illegal monopoly (note, I never said anything about legality. Seems you like to miss points too).
WasntMe, enjoy the show. anti-Apple people are indeed fun to talk to.
Sikkyu
I Question Reality
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 2,878
The most basic point works out to something like this...
PC Owner using Windows: "I can do what you can do, effectively everything, and I can do it for less cost."
Mac Owner using OSX: "Well... that might be true but, you won't look nearly as good doing it."
Now someone tell me I'm wrong.
your wrong
PC's look cooler
You don't read people's posts that well.
His post makes perfect sense to me (and I am not at all anti-Apple or MS). He also didn't say that you said (or anyone in the thread) that MS was monopolistic. He simply said "Apple, or Sony, or Adobe, or hordes of others". You misread my post earlier as well.
maybe you want to go back and read what he said exactly? He referred them as whiny companies who would complain about Microsoft being monopolistic. He said Microsoft couldn't add all of the features they wanted to - note that he said this after phide listed a bunch of software with more features.
Come on, I know you guys have each others back, but really.
"Apples to Apples" HAHAHAHA That's great... why do I get the impression that Microsoft page has got something started with the OEMs?
Whatever you think, Joe Average.
sparkyuiop
n00b
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2010
- Messages
- 2
What everyone seems to be ignoring here is that Apple want to bleed you dry. Microsoft products you only pay for once and the own. With Apple you don't even own the hardware you buy half the time, especially their phones and Ipods. You have no option but to use Apple software on said devices and they spend far too much effort preventing you from changing it, i.e 3.1.3. Hmm wonder who pays for that development time?
And why is this so important to Apple, because then they can screw you on iTunes and make you pay for everything. Also stop you from modding their software or your own home-brew to make use of the great blutooth features the iPhone and Ipod blutooth have that Apples crappy software ignores. Like the way you have to re-connect it to your car stereo everytime you want to blutooth your music. In my opinion they just are awful at writing software and are always on the take.
Phill.
And why is this so important to Apple, because then they can screw you on iTunes and make you pay for everything. Also stop you from modding their software or your own home-brew to make use of the great blutooth features the iPhone and Ipod blutooth have that Apples crappy software ignores. Like the way you have to re-connect it to your car stereo everytime you want to blutooth your music. In my opinion they just are awful at writing software and are always on the take.
Phill.
maybe you want to go back and read what he said exactly? He referred them as whiny companies who would complain about Microsoft being monopolistic. He said Microsoft couldn't add all of the features they wanted to - note that he said this after phide listed a bunch of software with more features.
Come on, I know you guys have each others back, but really.
sigh... this is pointless. It's like discussing this with my infant.
I'm done in this thread, for good this time.
maybe you want to go back and read what he said exactly? He referred them as whiny companies who would complain about Microsoft being monopolistic. He said Microsoft couldn't add all of the features they wanted to - note that he said this after phide listed a bunch of software with more features.
Come on, I know you guys have each others back, but really.
If my post that prompted you to pipe up once more had anything to do with phide's post(s) I would have quoted him. You make assumptions that just because I make a point about something that it's directly related to a specific post or statement by someone else, which is a false assumption - if and when I do such a thing, I quote the person (as I'm currently quoting you above).
Microsoft has tons of cool stuff they could do with Windows - just as Apple does with OSX - but their past experience and the current situation with the EU over IE "bundling" has taught them that they really can't do anything they want with their very own products, as fucked up and insane as that actually is. I still don't get why the EU doesn't go apeshit over Apple computers being sold in their community/union/what-the-fuck-ever-they-are and not forcing Apple to do a similar "browser ballot" screen.
But that's for another thread I suppose. This is, after all, about PCs vs Macs, and not the OSes... right? Right? I can build a machine for less than Apple can even with their insane profit margins and it'll eat the same configuration they would create alive.
And it would end up running OSX better too...
lol on the first day too. They just keep on coming.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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- Nov 5, 2005
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This is a PC oriented forum. Go to your favorite anti-Microsoft site like Slashdot or Macrumors and it gets worse than anything anti-Apple I've seen here.
Already did.Now someone tell me I'm wrong.
Yeah, the job you chose to do.
Not unlike Evernote. Which I use...across multiple platforms. Fits like a glove.
If you constrain yourself to Microsoft software, sure, you're going to have a hell of a hard time getting that stuff to work together across platforms (as Microsoft intends). If you'd only step outside the cell Microsoft's built for you, a new world of opportunities would await you.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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- Nov 5, 2005
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- 44,154
Which has nothing to do with the platforms used in those jobs. I simply want to make a living and if you could make a good living in a Windows only world I imagine you'd take it like I would in a Mac only world. But if you think that the number of development jobs in any way shape or form for OS X approches that of Windows, well, let's just say I choose to eat and to be able to afford expensive gadgets.
Evernote is nice, OneNote is a good bit better and it integreates better with the rest of Office. The biggest difference being true digital ink, not big deal to a lot, CRITICAL for others. OneNote is almost its own cult, it might be the best client application Microsoft has ever developed and its the best example of a free form digital notebook out there right now and a lot of Evernote folks agree.
That's rubbish, and you know very well that I'm not even close to anti-Microsoft. Don't even think about automatically labeling me as such just because I also approve of Apple products. A couple years ago I would agree with you that this is a PC-oriented site, but it's no longer true. If it was so, then why the hell are you even posting in Apple threads? Why are all of you guys perpetrating in mindless bashing we're supposed to be above? As you said, this isn't 4chan, but it sure as hell's starting to feel like it!
If this is a PC-oriented forum, then by God, let's stop this Apple posts, eh? At least give me and phide credit for being objective, unlike the rest of you Microsoft shills.
