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PC Gaming standards website

P

PrincessFrosty

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
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This is an updated original post for the 2 year anniversary of PCGS.

2 years ago this month I created a website www.pcgamingstandards.com it was just a personal project of mine as I was learning web technology and I thought I could do some good for the PC gaming community. Basically the site is an aggregator of fixes for common problems with PC games such as screen resolutions not being supported, AA, AF and Vsync not being supported etc.

The site is not for profit, I've never made any money from it, I don't host sponsored links, it's completely advert free and hosted out of my own pocket and it will remain so forever. It's a genuine attempt to give something back to a community that has brought me countless hours of fun and joy over the years, I hope you can find it useful.

I've added a few more games recently and made some tweaks to the website, just minor updates really, please if you like the website consider using the facebook like button, one of the biggest problems I have is getting the site out there to gamers without spamming or advertising, I rely on world of mouth to reach people.

-Frosty
 
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Yeah I have added it was a common request in my last thread, I've also added an alt tab column, they're not on the front page yet since thats just a hand written table, but they're in the database so when the front page is driven by the database it will appear, hopefuly this weekend.
 
Nice. You might consider a set of minus columns too, to take points away for things like intrusive DRM, DVD checks, GFW live and/or Rockstar Social Club..
 
Mark_Warner said:
Nice. You might consider a set of minus columns too, to take points away for things like intrusive DRM, DVD checks, GFW live and/or Rockstar Social Club..
Click to expand...

I like your thinking, I actually considered a bloatware catagory which would cover GFWL and things like Rockstar Social Club. I also considered intrusive DRM. Both these things are good the only reason they didn't go in initially was because I wasn't sure if they really came under the title of standards.

I do believe strongly that they should be enforced though, so I will probably add them, the only problem after that is where do we draw the lines with intrusive DRM, most of us are OK with CD keys but beyond that?
 
Yeah that chart was an example one, thrown together in a table quickly with only minimal consideration for accuracy, the final thing will be powered by a back end database which will be populated accurately.
 
Correctly/Completely re-map-able keyboard controls!!

One big thing for me in PC games is controls support. I use a bizarre (to most people) control-scheme that centers around the numpad (num-arrows for movement, num-enter for use, pgUp/pgDown=jump/crouch, etc). The vast majority of PC games (until around 2008) supported my scheme just fine; all Valve games work just fine; all ID games work just fine; all U3 engine games work fine. But there are a ton of recent games that have some really horrible perma-binding issues: the infamous Scarface game, FarCry2, Fallout3, GTA4, DeadSpace, just to name a few. Some of these have been patched, but none completely. I've learned to use AutoHotKeys to fix most of my issues, but it's still a huge pain when switching between different games.

So I'd say it would be great to have a column for completely re-map-able keyboard controls.

This site is a great idea, man! Hope this really takes off, and hopefully game devs will take notice and start making sure their work checks off here as well!
 
how bout a last updated column? where you put in the date that the last update/patch was released? shows if the developers are still working on things for the game or if they abandoned it. . . its something I always want to know when i buy games anyways. looks good so far btw.
 
I remember the original threads about this when there was lots of naysaying going on... haha.

I still say its a solid idea and hope it takes off.

From a web design perspective, I'd remove the multiple stars graphic in time (I know its early but just pointing it out). Possibly work out some graphics with the number overlayed on the star or something. It'd be much cleaner to display. Having that many stars is just a bit...messy? I dont know if what I'm trying to convey is clear so I can explain better if needed.

I agree on keyboard mapping. I would also recommend mouse mapping to the list. drives me batshit insane when I cant put grenades on side buttons or some such nonsense.

If theres anything that can be done to help shout out to us or even PM me!

Good luck and nice work!
 
Thanks for the comments.

Completely remappable keys, this was another thing I considered, I use backspace for global chat and its frequently unavailable for binding, i think i will add it but another one to careful of with criteria.

The Database already has a value for patch revision which will be marked against the game, so you can see which patch the score applies to.

The stars will probably be dropped, mostly due to the fact that I will need more room, but I will probably still score it.

Thanks for all the encouraging comments :)
 
PrincessFrosty said:
The stars will probably be dropped, mostly due to the fact that I will need more room, but I will probably still score it.

Thanks for all the encouraging comments :)
Click to expand...

thats primarily what I was trying to convey about it haha.

i would still suggest re programmable mouse buttons and re programmable keyboard keys seperately. Ive had games that let you set any key but not recognize side mouse buttons (fear2 iirc?)

keep at it!
 
^^ Yeah, I see what he's saying with the stars. Once you start adding more fields, you might want to display that as just a percentage with color-coding: 100%, 80%, 60% 40%

Also, I would condense your columns to categories: Aspect-Ratio, IQ, Controls, Released vs Last-Updated, etc - then once the user finds the game they're looking for, they could click on a [+] by each cell to drop-down the category and see the details they're looking for.

Sorry if this is pulling off the intended topic here. Good luck w/ the site development.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
I like your thinking, I actually considered a bloatware catagory which would cover GFWL and things like Rockstar Social Club. I also considered intrusive DRM. Both these things are good the only reason they didn't go in initially was because I wasn't sure if they really came under the title of standards.

I do believe strongly that they should be enforced though, so I will probably add them, the only problem after that is where do we draw the lines with intrusive DRM, most of us are OK with CD keys but beyond that?
Click to expand...

I agree that I'm not too sure that DRM belongs in the type of website that you are going for but if you do end up adding it I would draw the line on install limits and possibly online activations.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
I like your thinking, I actually considered a bloatware catagory which would cover GFWL and things like Rockstar Social Club. I also considered intrusive DRM. Both these things are good the only reason they didn't go in initially was because I wasn't sure if they really came under the title of standards.

I do believe strongly that they should be enforced though, so I will probably add them, the only problem after that is where do we draw the lines with intrusive DRM, most of us are OK with CD keys but beyond that?
Click to expand...

You could just list what kind of DRM and the restrictions without rating it.
 
Whats up with the score? Never heard of something out of 8 before. 10 too much and 5 too little?
 
The score system was based on how many criteria there was (8) at the time. This will obviously have to change with more criteria, I will probably resort to a percentage like madFive suggests either way it wont use stars.

I've just done an update to bring the FF and IE versions a bit more in line with each other (what a pain in the arse!) and i've CSS styled the menu. Worked on a contact page but the email code needs an smtp server so thats not working live at the moment.

More updates to come :)
 
PrincessFrosty said:
I like your thinking, I actually considered a bloatware catagory which would cover GFWL and things like Rockstar Social Club. I also considered intrusive DRM. Both these things are good the only reason they didn't go in initially was because I wasn't sure if they really came under the title of standards.

I do believe strongly that they should be enforced though, so I will probably add them, the only problem after that is where do we draw the lines with intrusive DRM, most of us are OK with CD keys but beyond that?
Click to expand...

That's because they don't. I for one like GFWL games for example. You might as well lump Steam in there too while your at it. Most have also never given a shit about cd checks either. Those community bloatware programs no matter how much YOU or some others hate them, many others do.

If you do feel like adding another column, intrusive DRM such as install limits might be a valid standard to not have. Not community apps.

But, I'll say it being honest: still think the idea is flawed for standards when it comes to a PC.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
I like your thinking, I actually considered a bloatware catagory which would cover GFWL and things like Rockstar Social Club. I also considered intrusive DRM. Both these things are good the only reason they didn't go in initially was because I wasn't sure if they really came under the title of standards.

I do believe strongly that they should be enforced though, so I will probably add them, the only problem after that is where do we draw the lines with intrusive DRM, most of us are OK with CD keys but beyond that?
Click to expand...

Here is my thought:

I don't mind CD keys. I don't mind DVD checks. I don't even mind requiring Games For Windows Live.

But if I have a product key that I have to activate, I don't want to have to leave the DVD in the drive when I play. If I have to bind the game to my GFW account via that product key, I don't want to have to leave the DVD in the drive when I play.

In my view, a DVD check, a product activation, and a GFW live account are 3 separate forms of DRM placed on a product. Not acceptable.
 
Well here's my opinion on the matter.

Some people like GFWL and thats fine, I have no problem with that, but why do I have to install it? There is no reason, it offers nothing in the way of features that couldn't be intergrated into the games menus, it just makes you install more useless bloatware for the sake of it.

Like most of the others things listed on the site some are perfectly acceptable, some people prefer vsync on, some people prefer AA off, some people prefer mouse acceleration on. What we need is an option to disable or avoid these things.

Steam is different, steam is a digitial content distribution platform foremost, it requires some form of downloader and DRM for it to be viable. At least once you've registered a game you can play in offline mode.

As for DRM...anything that inconveniences me while not protecting the game any further than basic checks is a big no no, install limits, online re-activation or constant internet connection required are the bigger culprits, also requiring you to uninstall ISO mounters like Daemon tools and disc burning software like Alcohol 120% is a big no no in my book.

I'll be a while considering whether DRM is appropriate or not, these discussions are helpful, it helps me see a broader range of opinions on the matter.
 
How is Steam any different when you but the retail version of Fear 2 (and a few others) and are forced to install Steam? Steam is DRM.

Notice how DRM has become the focal point of the thread. I think the addition of DRM and all of the "grey areas" would take away from the main point of your website.
 
whats about lan/multiplayer play, seems to be a popular item to remove from games as of late
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
How is Steam any different when you but the retail version of Fear 2 (and a few others) and are forced to install Steam? Steam is DRM.

Notice how DRM has become the focal point of the thread. I think the addition of DRM and all of the "grey areas" would take away from the main point of your website.
Click to expand...

not really the same, we choose to buy through steam, you can buy from stores if you want but for me, i prefer steam keeps it simple and no boxes or wasted plastics etc etc
 
CanadaOwnsJoo said:
not really the same, we choose to buy through steam, you can buy from stores if you want but for me, i prefer steam keeps it simple and no boxes or wasted plastics etc etc
Click to expand...

seriously?

It's the same thing. I prefer boxed copies of games. Why do I have to install Steam (GWFL)? I have not bought one game over Steam yet I have quiet a few games attached to a Steam account as a requirement.

"I don't want your social network"
"I don't plan to buy your games through your service"
"I don't care about achievements"
"Why do I need to fire up steam to fire up HL2?"
"Why did I need to activate HL2 (HL2 of course just being one example) over the internet when it's single player game"

It's just DRM. Agree with Baba: Its a gray area. Keep it as simple as possible since you're trying to establish standards. If you focus on DRM, you really need to pick why it's a truly a bad thing (install limits)
 
my HL (classic) was a steam voucher for one so it was free lol

but i like steam, can chat with friends without alt tabbing if there not in game, plus the deals they have are half the cost of store prices if you can get in on them

even with boxed games i find myself making an ISO to mount, or getting the downloaded client from the site, say wow for example, like hell im gona swap out 6 cds, then a dvd for bc, than another dvd for wrath, i have the boxes but they just take up shelf space, ive never used the install cd's since they offered the client download

i can grab my games off steam @ 1100k a second or so, i think it took me 20 minutes to download AION CE and the 450 mb patch, not that i can play it again till next weekend

bored and need a new game, stores closed for the night? no big deal enter CC, done lol

it might be a form of DRM to some but its not like the crap spore shipped with and so on
 
Great work on the site.

I can see this getting big if everything goes well with the information.
 
Maybe a little off topic, but a column that lists other programs associated with the running of the games might be useful. If the game has some sort of DRM-ware (Spore), needs to associate with Steam (Dawn of War 2), limited number of installations (Red Alert 3), or requires another service like windows live (HAWX) or punkbuster (Call of Duty) to use the online content. 3rd party associations like punkbuster really piss me off in general, and I like to avoid them whenever possible >>> it allows the game developer to sidestep responsibility for preventing hacking, yet doesnt actually stop it since a cheater/hacker will just buy another copy of the game. Tangent: Its a total scam because its in both Activision's and Punkbuster's best interests to allow for hacks, catch people, have them buy more copies of the games, yet not fix the underlying problem (if that happened, Punkbuster wouldnt need to exist, and then Activision wouldnt sell multiple games to those who get caught, in fact, its in both of their best interests for hacks like artificial aiming radar and chams to get more exposure and use). The downside for gamers is that as long as it is beneficial for PB to exist, hackers will exist (no criminals = no need for police) anyways... and hackers will simply hack their registry, get a new game copy, etc. So the cheating still goes on. Heck, I wouldnt be shocked if Activision itself 'leaked' code to the guys who make all those hacks to keep that market going. The other downside is that PB kills a game, and often for hardware glitches. Heck, you can hack & rewrite FRAPS itself to make fake screenshots of people to send in to PB to get someone you dont like banned. The only recourse that a consumer has to this is to try to get the PB ban lifted (yeah right, I hear its impossible... they dont even read appeals). The other logical recourse would be to demand one's money back... but from who? Activision isnt responsible for the 'ban' since Punkbuster is a 3rd & seperate party. PB isnt the company that sold you the game either... their software was merely 'included' with the game, and 'optional' at that they will claim. Long story short though, PB should be shut down (I hope those lawsuits stick, as legally, they should and their UA should be argued as fraudulent).

Anyways, 3rd party software 'security' included with a game that is 'optional' yet pretty much required to use the game really ticks me off. Its a total scam on the consumer and allows the developer to shirk the responsibility of making a secure game in the first place.
 
I understand that a lot of us have strong feelings about DRM but lets not focus entirely on that. If DRM is included as a catagory then I suspect steam would apply since it requires online activation, it may also apply as bloatware.

Punkbuster is another tricky one, it's optional for most games and you can find and play on punkbuster free servers but the isnt a great deal of choice, in this circumstance its more that server admins favour running it to protect their servers.

If I do include DRM at what point do people consider it should be marked down? Anything more than a CD key? Online Activation?

Is there anything else im missing that tick people off about games, I've always thought that low FOV was pretty lame, console games are made to about 65 degrees FOV because you sit far back from the TV more often than not, when they're ported to PC quite often they're left that low when ideally a FOV of closer to 90 is more acceptable for PC games and wider if you have widescreen. 65 degrees on a widescreen for games like Bioshock was just diabolical to be honest.
 
Can't access the site due to being at work, but after reading your description, it sounds like a great idea. Maybe one thing you can add would be whether or not the game is moddable/has an active mod community?
 
I love collecting and collected data. Things like this fascinate me. Would be good to see it succeed.

Suggested up to this post:

16:9 aspect, Disc check, DRM, Bloatware, Keyboard Remap, Mouse Remap, Version+date, Multi-Player, FOV


My suggestions:

- No total score.
The score doesn't really tell you anything other than how many ticks it has. I think it should be removed because I don't understand how I would use that. Why would I want to search/sort by score or care about it? I just want to check if it has that feature.
- Graphics API: Direct3D/OpenGL + version
- Sound API: OpenAL/EAX/DirectSound3D + version
- Sound Channels: 2/3/4/5/6/7
- Values for AA and AF?
Not all games let you pick the numbers you can do. Older games I guess. Perhaps it's not important? Or how the game lets you choose AA?
..Card-Side Max: Game allows whatever your card can do
..Game Limited Max: Ingame video options have set values
..Driver forcible: Your card control panel can force any mode, but you have to spend the effort(wolf et)
..None: The game has to be jagged and 500 FPS
-More Screen Resolutions: Reads Card Driver Values/Autoexec Forcible/Ingame Presets


Consider:

Graphics
1. Graphics API: Direct3D/OpenGL + version
2. Aspects: 5:4/4:3/16:10/16:9/Driver
3. Wide Mode: Horz+/Horz-/No
4. Resolutions: Driver/Autoexec/Presets
5. FOV: #/Option/Console/Mod/Locked
6. Vsync: Yes/No
7. AA: Driver/Game/Force/None
8. AF: Driver/Game/Force/None
9. Multi GPU Support: Yes/No

Digital Rights Management
1. Disc Check: yes/no (which one it is shouldn't matter)
2. Key Online Activation: yes/no
3. Required Applications: Steam/RS-Social/GFWL
4. Install limit: yes/no or #/no
5. Anti-cheating: VAC/PB/Misc

Audio
1. Sound API: OpenAL/EAX/DirectSound3D + version
2. Sound Channels Supported: 2/3/4/5/6/7

Human Interface
1. Mouse Acceleration Control: Yes/No
2. Keyboard Remap: Total/Limited/No
3. Mouse Remap: Total/Limited/No
4. Players: MMO/#/Single

Versioning
1. Latest Version: #
2. Version Date: #
3. Patching Type: Comprehensive/Sequential/None
4. Launch Version: #
5. Launch Date: #

Requirements
1. Min CPU: Intel/AMD Line or #
2. Min RAM: #
3. Min VGA: Nvidia/ATI Series
4. Rec CPU: Intel/AMD Line or #
5. Rec RAM: #
6. Rec VGA: Nvidia/ATI Series
7. Hard Drive: #
8. OS Supported: Win9x/Win2k/WinXP/Vista/Win7/*nix/Mac
9. Media: Download/DVD/CD

edit: updating as things come in below
 
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What does DRM have to do with anything? This site is obviously about the in-game experience, right? Let the management rights debate rage somewhere else. I'd like to see a site that rates games based solely on their technical merits (image quality, ect) as software.

The final score is important because it helps you to compare games, and compare developers to see who doing the best job of "compliance" with your standards.
 
If all the categories are only yes/no it won't show as much data. Most new games will include all those things now, eventually it will be a list of all yes. I don't know if that would be called 'following standards'. Nothing will force them to comply, but people can still complain about it. The site would just be a "hey where's that feature?" database and not as exciting. And I don't know about it making any movements to the industry. But I'd like to see every aspect of the game shown. And if older games get put up and don't support things, it would be extremely useful if the site provided links or information on how to tweak something. With my list a general score doesn't fit. Maybe I saw the wrong thing here.
 
The site isn't so much about the rating, it's about providing information to the players and linking to fixes for common issues like no AA/AF or incorrectly implimented widescreen.

it wont just end up a list of all yes, there is a still a industry wide problem with games adapting standards on the PC platform, the widescreengaming forum is an example of a lot of hard work the community does just in order to get widescreen working correctly, very few modern games get widescreen right, and this is just one example.
 
You should add a categories for SLI and Crossfire compatibility, even though i've never had either of them. :)
 
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