PC Gaming is too much work.

Solstice said:
I tried his keys out, its not all bad.. actually kinda nice having your three fingers on the same row.
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Wow haven't been on the forums for a little bit, stepped away from this. Yes, WSER is just how I learned, for some odd reason. Having all 3 fingers sitting naturally on the same row makes for more natural motion and less stress on my hands. I don't have to use my pinky for movement. WS is forward/back, ER is strafe left/right. A is reload. Q and Z are in quick easy reach for common tasks like USE or weapon switching. Used to have Q bind to my rocket launcer and Z to my railgun.

Personally I think it gives me a movement advantage, in fast moving FPS games I'm usually quite adept at dodging incoming fire, especially back in the Quake days.
 
Wow and I thought i was odd for using the arrow keys. WASD feels wrong to me, because the S key is offset. The only other thing I could maybe see myself using is the Nostromo. Also, If I could play an FPS on my console with kb/m, then it would be a whole new ball game.
 
I think there are some major myths about PC games.

One is that PC games require a bunch of setup. If you goto a forum like this full of computer savy people they will tell you all sorts of things you can do to squeeze the most out of any computer. But what we forget is millions of gamers, buy a game at the store or on steam, then they play it. They do nothing else they do not even change their key config and for them the game runs fine. These people are doing things no different than console players. They let the game auto configure everything and accept it for face value. In fact I have noticed more and more games are just leaving out alot of customization abilities.

The second is that it is cheaper to game on a console. Sorry the math just does not add up. Companies like microsoft do not join the console business because it is cheaper they do it because it is more expensive and they plan to make a killing off of your ignorance and belief it is cheaper. You paid for a loss leader in a system. But with xbox live, more expensive games and proprietory components in the end you pay more and get less. Trust me no company would be in the business if it was not highly profitable. Its just like printers you can buy a cheap HP but then expect to get screwed on ink for the rest of your days.

On top of that the cost of a PC gaming is offset by the fact any normal human in a developed country needs a computer of some sort. So if you console game you have to count all your computer purchases in the price of your console because they are in fact part of the cost, you were forced to buy a separate computer to do the things your console could not do for you. Most of the people out there be it with a laptop or desktop only need one thing to do decent PC gaming they need to make sure they purchase a computer with a mid level graphics card. That is it.

I personally have found it cheaper and more satisfying to game on PCs for my house. The added benifit of doing so is that everything we do on all of our computers is that much faster and more enjoyable.

All people need to do to help PC gaming grow is convince anyone you have influence over to get a decent graphics card in anything they buy. Then they have the ability to do some gaming even if a hardcore gamer considers it light gaming it is something. And if that happens you will see more games built to better manage dealing with a wider range of computers and you will see more money pour into gaming.


Lastly PC gaming will always be smaller than console gaming the reason is there is no one unified body that helps promote PC gaming. You almost never see an ad on TV for a PC game, but you see them every other comercial break for console games. So with all that exposure you will never see the ignorant move into PC gaming. And for that one simply point PC gaming has always been smaller than console even in what we consider the hay day of PC gaming it was still much smaller than console gaming.

But at the end of the day being part of a smaller community is fine by me if the games and abilities are better.
 
rudy said:
I think there are some major myths about PC games.

...

But at the end of the day being part of a smaller community is fine by me if the games and abilities are better.
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I pretty much agree with all of this particularly your point about PC gaming setup. And again I CANNOT stress the difference in user experience and the complexity of the PC in question. When one says PC they are talking of a VAST array of devices with far more variance than all game consoles put together. A common PC is child's play to setup these days, there just isn't a lot to it. If there is a problem often a 5 minute web search reveals a simple and quick answer. Only the exotic stuff like multi-GPU and multi-monitor setups are time consuming and that's technology FAR beyond today's consoles.

Simple PCs are simple to game on and complex ones require some effort. That's it in a nutshell.
 
It is unbelievable that some people still believe that PC gaming is cheaper than console. In 2005, if you built a $400 PC, what kind of games would it be playing today?

None. You would have probably have gone through a few $400 PCs by now.

Sure you can buy a super expensive HDTV and surround sound system but you could also buy a super expensive audio video setup for your PC. ALL console games are fine on a $300 32" LCD.
 
Staples said:
It is unbelievable that some people still believe that PC gaming is cheaper than console. In 2005, if you built a $400 PC, what kind of games would it be playing today?

None. You would have probably have gone through a few $400 PCs by now.

Sure you can buy a super expensive HDTV and surround sound system but you could also buy a super expensive audio video setup for your PC. ALL console games are fine on a $300 32" LCD.
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In the period from 2007-2011, PC games have not required any new hardware whatsoever. The hardware chase has plateaued because there are no new innovation or performance demanding PC games coming out as most developers are tied to the console cycles now.

Something more realistic is a $700 PC in 2007 which would still be able to play practically everything that comes out today.

What else does a console do for you? Clumsily surf the net with a gamepad and irritating text entry on screen? Watch a bit of Netflix? Most people already own PCs for school/work/internet/art/hobbies, etc. therefore much of it is already a sunk cost. Combine that with direct download sales for PC games versus paying regular prices for console games (which never dip as low as PC game prices) over a few years and not having to pay for XBox Live, etc. and PC gaming is cheaper.
 
Staples said:
Sure you can buy a super expensive HDTV and surround sound system but you could also buy a super expensive audio video setup for your PC. ALL console games are fine on a $300 32" LCD.
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Maybe now, but back when the 360 & PS3 were still new, HDTVs certainly didn't cost a few hundred. Even now, the better ones still cost anywhere from $1,000-$2,000+. And that's not counting a good surround system.
 
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The beauty of PC gaming is having comman-line control over almost every aspect of a game and being able to tweak its graphics and performance to your liking.
 
Volume said:
The beauty of PC gaming is having comman-line control over almost every aspect of a game and being able to tweak its graphics and performance to your liking.
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Yeah, that and having access to advanced graphics options, even if the game is a console port you can stick jack the screen resolution up to 2560x1600 or more if you use multi-monitor, you can apply 16xAF and 8xAA and have the game look many orders of magnitude better while still using the same art assets as the console version.
 
Staples said:
It is unbelievable that some people still believe that PC gaming is cheaper than console. In 2005, if you built a $400 PC, what kind of games would it be playing today?

None. You would have probably have gone through a few $400 PCs by now.

Sure you can buy a super expensive HDTV and surround sound system but you could also buy a super expensive audio video setup for your PC. ALL console games are fine on a $300 32" LCD.
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It is unbelievable that some people still believe the only thing PC gamers use their PC for is gaming. they have more then one function. people own computers for other reasons then gaming. pc games are cheaper. 6 month old console game might drop 10$ 6 month old pc games might be half price, about a 25-35$ drop. pc games are moddable not all but enough, adding tons of more content for free.

i am pretty sure if you could SLI/crossfire 2,3,4 consoles together for true 1080p and extra AA/AF there would be people doing it. console gamers would happily spend more to get more. so i highly doubt people choose consoles because they are the better value.

BREAKING NEWS! people have different preferences! if you prefer a PC enjoy it. if you prefer a console enjoy it.
 
gesicht said:
6 month old pc games might be half price, about a 25-35$ drop.
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Black Ops 59.99

Fuckin' Steam. Games that aren't tied to Steamworks of B.Net accounts (or the like) do tend to drop super fast.

Then again, so do most Console games, and even cheaper if you're willing to buy used or trade. I probably spend equal amounts on PC games as Console games.
 
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Staples said:
It is unbelievable that some people still believe that PC gaming is cheaper than console. In 2005, if you built a $400 PC, what kind of games would it be playing today?

None. You would have probably have gone through a few $400 PCs by now.

Sure you can buy a super expensive HDTV and surround sound system but you could also buy a super expensive audio video setup for your PC. ALL console games are fine on a $300 32" LCD.
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In 2005 $400 was about as cheap as you could get a PC that is not a correct comparison because you had to spend another 300-600$ on a console. You needed the PC and you needed the console so your whole setup cost you $700-$1000. Now if you spend $1000 on a PC in 2005 then you could still play lots of games. I know this because one of my family members still games on just such a PC. Is it great no, but its better than a console.
 
To get a PC to run a game at 720p (console standard), you could easily continue using the same gear that came out when consoles came out.

So at launch: $400 console vs. $300 graphics card
Then over time: $10 premium for console games + (maybe) $50-60 year for Live!

The rest of my PC I use & need for other things so it's not entirely fair to compare the cost, the rest of my media system (TV & audio) I use for other things so it's not entirely fair to compare the cost.

As has been beaten to death, PC's CAN easily be more expensive than consoles, however for the same user experience they don't have to be...

Seriously guys, someone is WRONG on the internet :-O
 
Yes I laugh at a lot of comments on other gaming websites when consoletards say "$300 lets me play any game out" and then say the equivalent performance from a PC costs over $1000. "OMG it has to have eyefinity and three of the best grafix cards and the best overclocked prosessor! you can't get that for $300 so console rulz!" So stupid.
 
Plague_Injected said:
Yes I laugh at a lot of comments on other gaming websites when consoletards say "$300 lets me play any game out" and then say the equivalent performance from a PC costs over $1000. "OMG it has to have eyefinity and three of the best grafix cards and the best overclocked prosessor! you can't get that for $300 so console rulz!" So stupid.
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Most of my friends that decided to go with consoles this generation have 55-60+ inch LCD's or Plasmas. They also have $500, 5 year old off the shelf computers that they also seemingly didn't know they had to clean, allow Windows updates, and occasionally run MSE.

Luckily, a couple of them have decided they prefer the HTPC's I built for them over *any* of the consoles they've ever owned. No, they aren't computer illiterate, they just got lazy for a couple years.
 
Staples said:
It is unbelievable that some people still believe that PC gaming is cheaper than console. In 2005, if you built a $400 PC, what kind of games would it be playing today?

None. You would have probably have gone through a few $400 PCs by now.

Sure you can buy a super expensive HDTV and surround sound system but you could also buy a super expensive audio video setup for your PC. ALL console games are fine on a $300 32" LCD.
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The most likely scenario from 2005 -> now

Xbox 360 in 2005 -> $400
6 years of LIVE -> $300
6 years of paying $10 more for games -> ~$400
Paying for the low end PC you would have had to buy anyway -> $300
The replacement 360 that you bought in 6 years :p -> $300
The 2nd low end PC you bought, because face it, no one keeps a PC for 6 years even if they dont game on it -> $300 ;)

Total $2000, lol.

I'm not saying that's how it always goes, but rather that its a bit silly to go all the way back to 2005 to try and compare. Over that time there's a lot of money gone into paying the premium on games, LIVE, controllers, many people have bought 2nd consoles after failures outside of warranty (6 years, come on).

I know when I bought my PC back in 2007 I thought long and hard about the price difference between a shit PC that was still good enough for me to do day to day work on for University + a console, or simply a good PC. I'm not saying the PC was cheaper, but I do remember they were very close and the PC had better graphics and still has better graphics than a console (G80 8800GTS and e6600).
 
gesicht said:
i am pretty sure if you could SLI/crossfire 2,3,4 consoles together for true 1080p and extra AA/AF there would be people doing it. console gamers would happily spend more to get more. so i highly doubt people choose consoles because they are the better value.
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Actually you can chain Xboxes together for more power in certain games.
 
Spare-Flair said:
Actually you can chain Xboxes together for more power in certain games.
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I saw someone doing that with PS3s on a GT forum. They appeared to be launch consoles, meaning they probably cost $500 a piece, and he had 3 of them. The only advantage it gave was the ability to use 3 monitors. Why would you not just build a gaming PC for that money? GT isn't even that good of a game, definitely not worth investing $1500 to play with 3 monitors.

Almost forgot that he needed 3 copies of the game, too! What a rip off!
 
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Tudz said:
The most likely scenario from 2005 -> now

Xbox 360 in 2005 -> $400
6 years of LIVE -> $300
6 years of paying $10 more for games -> ~$400
Paying for the low end PC you would have had to buy anyway -> $300
The replacement 360 that you bought in 6 years :p -> $300
The 2nd low end PC you bought, because face it, no one keeps a PC for 6 years even if they dont game on it -> $300 ;)

Total $2000, lol.

I'm not saying that's how it always goes, but rather that its a bit silly to go all the way back to 2005 to try and compare. Over that time there's a lot of money gone into paying the premium on games, LIVE, controllers, many people have bought 2nd consoles after failures outside of warranty (6 years, come on).

I know when I bought my PC back in 2007 I thought long and hard about the price difference between a shit PC that was still good enough for me to do day to day work on for University + a console, or simply a good PC. I'm not saying the PC was cheaper, but I do remember they were very close and the PC had better graphics and still has better graphics than a console (G80 8800GTS and e6600).
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You are ignoring the calculation of selling back games, which is a reality on console. Not so much on PC. It is impossible to compare price differences as well because does everyone over 5 years pay 60 dollars for a game all the time?
 
roaf85 said:
You are ignoring the calculation of selling back games, which is a reality on console. Not so much on PC. It is impossible to compare price differences as well because does everyone over 5 years pay 60 dollars for a game all the time?
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Price conscious people will find ways of saving money, regardless of the platform. It's a mistake to think that the people complaining about prices are the ones who are purchasing $5000 PC's or $5000 TV's and sound systems. They're most likely not.

What I do find disturbing though is that PC's and consoles are merging into one. But instead of taking the best features of each, it seems that it's the worst features of the other which are leaking into each.
 
Nytegard said:
Price conscious people will find ways of saving money, regardless of the platform. It's a mistake to think that the people complaining about prices are the ones who are purchasing $5000 PC's or $5000 TV's and sound systems. They're most likely not.

What I do find disturbing though is that PC's and consoles are merging into one. But instead of taking the best features of each, it seems that it's the worst features of the other which are leaking into each.
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I don't think a person who wipes their ass with money purchases a 5,000 TV. I know you are using an extreme example, but look at TV prices.

I bought a Westinghouse 42 inch TV in the summer of 07 with a movers coupon at 989. This was when TVs of that size were around 1400 for the Sony model.

That being said look at where 42 inch prices are today? Hell an LED model will run you about 600 dollars.

24 inch monitors for computers are under 200 dollars new whereas 5 years ago you paid 500-600.

The problem with this is if you take a console at face value, say an xbox 360 for 400 back in 2005 it probably is still worth about 100 dollars on a private sale.

That being said you have a 300 dollar residual loss on just the console itself. You build a gaming tower 5 years ago it would have ran you at least 700.

I am not sure where you guys are getting those ridiculous prices from where a PC cost 300 dollars 5 years. That is super low.

I built a system in 06

A 3800 X2 then from newegg was 262.00 and a 7800GT was around 200.00. That was just for those 2 components.

What is a 7800GT and a 3800 X2 worth today? Maybe 50 bucks combined.
 
Keep in mind, this is the current state of consoles only. Once a new console comes out you will then see extreme depreciation on the current units, and who knows what kind of life cycle they will continue with going forward.

Has this gen of consoles been a great value for the buyer, if you're into consoles? Absolutely. Is that guaranteed to continue? No.
 
The hardware costs are slightly apples to oranges in comparison, because a PC is not strictly a gaming device and the associated costs (software, peripherals, addons, etc) are different as well. So a generalized comparison is difficult.

For instance for me, PC gaming is cheaper, because the only hardware component I'd save on really is the video card, and even then I would not get the lowest end card/onboard as I use some of the GPU acceleration features, and I like own certain hardware just out of tech interest. I rarely resell games (at least not until they are so old as to be worthless), so associated software costs are lower for me.
 
If anything, with console ports going to PC, PC gaming is simpler for the dumb sheeple who buy aforementioned console ports.
 
pigwalk said:
Black Ops 59.99

Fuckin' Steam. Games that aren't tied to Steamworks of B.Net accounts (or the like) do tend to drop super fast.

Then again, so do most Console games, and even cheaper if you're willing to buy used or trade. I probably spend equal amounts on PC games as Console games.
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You should probably be cursing Activision and not Steam, since they're the ones who actually control the price. They are a lot like EA these days as far as pricing, they will milk prices for as long as possible. Only a few months ago, MW2 was still $60 MSRP in most major retail stores, regardless of which platform you bought it for. A game that was almost a year and a half old, and a newer sequel, was still $60. Even now it's only $50 retail.
 
eat2na said:
I built an $1700...
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Go back in time, take the "1000" out of "1700".
Use the 700 to build/buy your rig.
Use the 1000 to buy a year's supply of pot and downers.
This should solve your frustration while also putting you on roughly the same level as most console gamers...
 
roaf85 said:
You are ignoring the calculation of selling back games, which is a reality on console. Not so much on PC. It is impossible to compare price differences as well because does everyone over 5 years pay 60 dollars for a game all the time?
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The prices weren't meant to be taken seriously... I was trying to make a point that comparing a $400 PC to a $400 launch 360 doesn't really work because there's other costs involved and over the course of 5-6 years there's too many unknowns.

Me personally I dont really resell my games. I still have 30-40 original Xbox games in my cupboard and maybe 20 N64 games and half a dozen NES games (didn't play many games in the NES days). And even if you buy them after the price has dropped, PC games drop in price faster and further than console games so you're still paying a premium. In the past 2 years I've spent maybe $200 on PC games and have about 30 games to show for it, all of which I still own, and most I haven't played, lol.
 
castun said:
You should probably be cursing Activision and not Steam, since they're the ones who actually control the price. They are a lot like EA these days as far as pricing, they will milk prices for as long as possible. Only a few months ago, MW2 was still $60 MSRP in most major retail stores, regardless of which platform you bought it for. A game that was almost a year and a half old, and a newer sequel, was still $60. Even now it's only $50 retail.
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Do you know how much game development costs nowadays? It takes 10x the manpower it did 10 years ago. Companies are going to digital because they must, it saves costs and lets them keep the price reasonable. $60 for a quality game is nothing.
 
alienate said:
Do you know how much game development costs nowadays? It takes 10x the manpower it did 10 years ago. Companies are going to digital because they must, it saves costs and lets them keep the price reasonable. $60 for a quality game is nothing.
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It takes 10x the manpower, 10x the money and they sell 10x as many copies.

$60 for an average quality game a year after it launched and after its sequel has come out is way too fucking much.
 
Tudz said:
It takes 10x the manpower, 10x the money and they sell 10x as many copies.

$60 for an average quality game a year after it launched and after its sequel has come out is way too fucking much.
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It's what they can get from the market though.

Price is quite simple to understand. If people don't buy the game, the price will drop quicker. Think what you want to about their intelligence, but that's reality.
 
alienate said:
Do you know how much game development costs nowadays? It takes 10x the manpower it did 10 years ago. Companies are going to digital because they must, it saves costs and lets them keep the price reasonable. $60 for a quality game is nothing.
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You can't explain things logically to All around here. They believe all games sell just as many copies as COD. When in reality, many games actually lose money, especially PC only games. It is no wonder why most games are multi platform now.
 
Staples said:
You can't explain things logically to All around here. They believe all games sell just as many copies as COD. When in reality, many games actually lose money, especially PC only games. It is no wonder why most games are multi platform now.
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How about if we talk on a global scale?


I'm amazed this thread is this large.
 
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