PC Gaming Decline, whats to blame?

[koopaGG]

the whole piracy thing is so retarded that it blows my mind people still think that's the problem. Piracy was actually way, way easier 10 years ago. I can pirate console games as well if I want. Some of the best games I played back in the day were legitimately free, in fact. Doom, anyone?

Doom wasn't free, EP1 was, it was Shareware.

 

[Langly]

skipped the whole thread after the first page


PC gaming is going down hill because of the lack of games.

The games just aren't that good anymore compared to before.

I would rather play through doom2 or Quake 1/2 single player, then play company of heroes or quake 4 etc.

Honestly, I see a game or two a year that I buy and like a lot. Supcom has been really fun but its no for those with bad machines.

Thankfully, My computer is my media center as well.

 

[osalcido]

I say cost.... the only way to keep people coming back with new content which means spending big on new 3d engines and artwork as well as features...there's only so many skins you can put on unreal engine before people start to see it for what it is... a damn clone

 

[StaticlyCharged]

I'd have to say Jerry Springer is the reason for the decline of PC game sales. All that Reality TV is really doing it in!...


And if not that, then it's certainly the lack of quality in games. How many "Great" titles have been released in the past few years? Likely, less than 15 games that you could count as "epic" on any level. Warcraft 3, WoW, Half-Life 2 (and various mods addons). There are so few "Quality" games now it's just sad. There's a new game out almost every week, much like movies - most of them are shit. In essence you'll only see a few of those "God of War" epic games, and people are wising up the the fact that not all games are great ones, and they've stopped wasting money on them.

So perhaps it's just a wiser userbase

 

[aggr1103]

Which reminds me, I wish people would stop dry-humping their WoW boxes so Blizzard can go back to making Starcraft 2 like they SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING ALL ALONG. I wish successful mmorpg's weren't so stupidly profitable heh.

This has all probably been pointed out by other people but I didn't feel like reading any of this thread

This is where I struggle to understand the whole "PC gaming in decline" issue. Just because units are not being sold, does that mean that the PC as a gaming interface will soon be useless? Blizzard is making money hand over fist because of subscriptions to WoW and its expansion every month. Valve has put practically its entire library (plus the libraries of other developers) online to purchase for download via steam. Valve also added in-game advertisements to counter-strike 1.6, so they're making even more money on an 8 year old game that has more people playing online in the world at any time than any other game, console or PC. PC gamer recently printed an article about misleading reports showing massive drops in PC game sales, yet the report itself did not take into consideration sales made over the internet.

Also, PC gaming is more than just the 3d titles we typically think of today. What about flash games? Wasn't there a report a few years ago that identified "computer games" - i.e. flash games, as the biggest contributor to time wasted in the workplace since the invention of the watercooler? Seems like nintendo took a page from the PC world when they put in the wii arcade or whatever its called so wii users can play flash games.

 

[Shottah_king]

Everyone comes up with all these crazy ideas, PC Gaming is dying because of Piracy. Companies aren't releasing on teh PC platform becuase they wont make that much money due to piracy and if they do release they don't polish teh games becaues they know they will be pirated, which is why xbox360 and PS3 get more and better games.

 

[SilverSliver]

Considering pirating console games is only slightly more difficult than pirating PC games, I'd say piracy is not much of a factor. I'm sure the gaming industry, see PC gaming industry, is simply using it as an excuse for utterly terrible and non innovating games.

I havn't seen much of anything in the past few years in the PC gaming realm that has jumped out at me and made me buy it for whatever reason.

 

[GMoney42392]

Considering pirating console games is only slightly more difficult than pirating PC games, I'd say piracy is not much of a factor. I'm sure the gaming industry, see PC gaming industry, is simply using it as an excuse for utterly terrible and non innovating games.

qft. when a pc game is projected to sell 2 million copies and it only sells 1 million, the company doesnt think "wow. our game really wasnt up to snuff. we should learn from the mistakes we made with it in order to make our next game better." instead, they think "well, of course we only sold 1 million!!!!! the other million got pirated!!!!" that mentality is one of the major reasons pc gaming is heading straight up the wazoo imo.

 

[SwanBeeCh]

i think its a combination of machine upgrade cost, and a general lack of original titles.

why $500 + upgrading your machine for a game thats just a slightly prettier version of something we have played before?

especially when there could be a super original title just around the corner... and chances are good that we'll just have to upgrade again.

 

[Hulk]

So I've read numerous places that the companies are blaming this on piracy, but my view as a consumer differs. I think it's because of the quality of games when you compare them from now to 1995, obviously some things have gotten better but you no longer have these amazing ground breaking titles.

Whats to blame for the decrease in sales?

Please post in the proper subforum - Slartibartfast

So are you by any chance writing a paper for your college class about the decline of pc gaming and who to blame and needs some ideas? hmmmmmmmm

 

[SwanBeeCh]

So are you by any chance writing a paper for your college class about the decline of pc gaming and who to blame and needs some ideas? hmmmmmmmm

hahaha
right? qft.

 

[digitalman]

If you played any of the original thief games you'd know that its basically an abomination to add something like 3rd person, there was many changes to the game made which noobed it up in comparison to the rest of the series on the PC. The exact same thing with Deus Ex 2, completly consoled to the max in comparison to the original which was a A* game.

So true. When the people at RSE/Ubisoft ported the original Ghost Recon to the Xbox. They kept the game play of the PC version. Since the Xbox version sold better then the PC version. The bean counters at Ubisoft only saw dollar signs. So they changed the game play of the Rainbow6/Ghost Recon series from a slow placed team oriented realistic tactical shooter to a consolized FPS with a few elements of a tactical shooter. This even includes the fact that most of the recent games have been developed separately for the PC and Xbox. I refuse to buy a UbiSoft game unless it is developed by 1C aka Maddox Games.

Where is Interplay? The company that produced great games like Fallout 1& 2 and the Baldur's Gate series. Living on in name only with a web space probably run out of Herve Cean's garage. This after the disastrous debacle of the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance console games.

Were is Surreal Software? They put a very good game in Drakan. They gave the finger to their core fans and released Drakan 2 on the PS2. They have been bought out by Miday Games. A company best known for shopping mall arcade games.

Were is Ion Storm? A company that put out excellent games like Dues Ex and Thief 2: The Metal Age. They decided to screw their core fans with Dues Ex 2: Invisible War and Thief 3. Ion Storm was folded by Edios.

 

[davidj]

Why did Dell buy Alienware?????

Why did HP buy Voodoo PC if PC gaming is in such a "decline"???

If you read any number of PC related publications you will see many more companies are building PC game machines now than 2, 5 or 10 years ago.

Why is Xbox and Xbox 360 a huge money loosing venture for M$??

Why are so many advertisers gearing up to insert their products into PC games?

PC games still out sell PC applications.

Using the word "decline" generates inaccurate implications. This QUESTION paints an inaccurate picture in the minds of those that are not well read on this topic.

Hardcore PC gamers in general are a different breed of gamer vs hardcore console gamers. Dell and HP understand this and that is why they will to spend millions buy boutique companies.

Yes some gamers have PCs and consoles but hardcore and spoiled gamers know that consoles just cannot communicate well what game developers are trying to convey.

Frankly SOME publishers just want to run a business "on the cheap". Such as Americans hiring illegal aliens and sending a huge number of American jobs to China, India, The Philippines, etc.

So some publishers just sold out to greed and make cheaper games on consoles.

 

[Dethred]

I wish there was a combined option up there. I think a lot of it stems from piracy, but no just because people want the games for free, they just don't want to pay for something that usually turns out to be utter shit.

My opinion on the reasons in order:

1.) Quality of games making "try before you buy" much more common. I personally have bought hyped up games like "Brothers in Arms" and was absolutely sickened at spending so much money.

2.) Bugs. Test Drive Unlimited and Armed Assault for instance. I am sure, after poor sales on the PC, that Atari will be less likely to publish games for anything but consoles. I am personally better off having tried both games (on other PCs) before I bought either of them. Armed assault is the biggest pile of shit since... well, I can't think of anything so terrible. Test Drive unlimited doesn't even work on about 90% of the computers on which it is installed. You think Creative's forums are full of trash talking due to X-Fi issues, check out the ATARI Test Drive Unlimited PC forums! These are two games that I was planning on buying, but won't even touch with a 10-foot pole now.

3.) Ridiculous performance demands. These games coming out are crazy! Not only are many of them no better looking than their predecessors on the same graphics engine, they don't even play well on a high-end PC. I have just started playing Oblivion even though I bought it last year. Reason? Anything less than a DX10 card makes it a slide show on anything but crap graphics settings. All of these companies advertise their games with beautiful pictures of amazing graphics on the box, but when you load it up (if it doesn't crash during installation), you get much less than you thought you paid for.

I think all of those reasons make people more likely to pirate video games, or simply not buy them. I used to buy games left and right from Gamestop when I was in High school. The games were great! Then I bought Spiderman 2 on the PC, and since I have only bought 1 or 2 a year. I don't remember ever having issues with Age of Empires 1 or 2, or with Medal Of Honor Allied Assault... but Battlefield 2, Company of Heroes, TD:U, ARMA, etc all run like shit, play like shit, and thats when they aren't crashing.

Who on earth is going to go buy games time and time again and get screwed when they can at least try it first through piracy?

PS: I know just as many people with Modded Xbox360's as I do PC game "pirates".

 

[MemoryInAGarden]

I don't remember ever having issues with Age of Empires 1 or 2, or with Medal Of Honor Allied Assault... but Battlefield 2, Company of Heroes, TD:U, ARMA, etc all run like shit, play like shit, and thats when they aren't crashing.

QFT. I remember when I was in high school and BF1942 was the big thing. One of my buddies had a large basement and we'd have ten people or more over at his house playing that all night, every other weekend. Sometimes we'd all join a big game on an internet server. BF2 was awkward, not optimized well, and was absolutely pitiful upon release. We never got into BF2 like we did 1942. 2142 sounds like more garbage.

Quake 3 was terrific and I played that for years. But Quake 4 lost the magic. It's not that the game sucked that bad (single player was a joke), but the Q3A community that made the game wonderful never showed up.

Then I have so many stupid sci-fi rehashes that I'm just sick of it. I'm not a big fan of sci-fi anyway, but shove down my throat a dozen times a year and I'll never look at a PC game again. Innovation is dead.

 

[Baker]

I'll tell you whats to blame...

All of you are to busy debating why PC games are on the decline instead of keeping yourselves busy playing and buying whats out.

If I wasn't at work, I wouldn't be posting here, I would be busy enjoying MotorStorm (can't get enough of it)

 

[Conker]

Reason pc games are also down is that the average pc gamer has bought games and is smarter than a console person usually since you gotta know your specs and all that to install and use the computer. When you have a smarter person that knows that games lately have been boring and lost innovation you start to wait until the hits come out. You start to wait until the good games that are fun come out so the companies get mad since we don't buy the crappy games they make. For consoles any dumb guy below average person will go to a store and just look at the cover and buy it just for looks. Most of the console gamers are just littles and adults but not that educated as the pc gamers. Its just the lack of innovation and creativity thats starting to kill sales. Anyone that plays the same type of game over and over will eventually get bored of that type of game lol. Company is hereos is fun actually for me. For me its the only game out lately worth buying but for other games they are mostly crap. Company of hereos has new stuff i've never seen in other strategies . Thats why i like it since it has new ideas and new ways to play the game. If we got that in other games we wouldn't even be here talking about this whole subject lol. Without new ideas and innovations games would get boring in time eventually like the phase we are going through now until quake wars

 

[koopaGG]

So are you by any chance writing a paper for your college class about the decline of pc gaming and who to blame and needs some ideas? hmmmmmmmm

No, but thats a good idea.

Quake 3 was terrific and I played that for years. But Quake 4 lost the magic. It's not that the game sucked that bad (single player was a joke), but the Q3A community that made the game wonderful never showed up.

That's because we are still playing it!

 

[aggr1103]

That's because we are still playing it!

Amen to that. Developers keep trying to replicate successes in PC games (I think there are 17 mmo's coming out this year...thanks WoW) but usually fall short. Replay value in PC games is ridiculously high (Quake 3, CS 1.6, Diablo, Starcraft) and the many replications, sequals fall short (except COD2). Online play and patches give PC games alot of replay value. Up until the past few years, consoles never had this option. The only way to really get a new experience was to buy the sequal.

 

[Baker]

Amen to that. Developers keep trying to replicate successes in PC games (I think there are 17 mmo's coming out this year...thanks WoW) but usually fall short. Replay value in PC games is ridiculously high (Quake 3, CS 1.6, Diablo, Starcraft) and the many replications, sequals fall short (except COD2). Online play and patches give PC games alot of replay value. Up until the past few years, consoles never had this option. The only way to really get a new experience was to buy the sequal.

AvP2? Tribes 2? HomeWorld 2? just to list a few sequals that didnt fall short IMHO.

 

[SwanBeeCh]

AvP2? Tribes 2? HomeWorld 2? just to list a few sequals that didnt fall short IMHO.

don't forget jagged alliance 2... or system shock 2

 

[Abyss of Borg]

I think it has to do with quality of games, like as many people have said console and barrier of entry to PC gaming are to blame. I know a lot of gamers who bought their most recent PC game in 2004 because of HL2, CSS, and more good games. I think it would be interesting to see this list with all MMO subscription fees to just see if the industry is really moving in a new direction or if PC gaming is slowing down significantly.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

AvP2? Tribes 2? HomeWorld 2? just to list a few sequals that didnt fall short IMHO.

Homeworld 2 wasn't very good. They dumbed down the interface and ruined the story. It wasn't as bad as say, Thief: Deadly Shadows, but it was still pretty bad. Lots of good ideas, very poor execution.

 

[Calis]

EA is responsible for the demise of PC games imo, they always buy out other companies, turn their games crap, then just start mass producing.

Or maybe its just because they shut down earth and beyond ><

 

[Wildace]

earth & beyond was pretty fun for awhile... was a new experience playing that game.

 

[cerebrex]

Well... to sell to PC users you have to have great multiplayer... which is the only reason to really buy the game. If you don't play online you can just grab the torrent.

Eventually, in the future... hardware developers will start disappearing, and tailoring more to consoles... and some day in the very distant future PC gaming will be a thing of the past... simply because of pirating.

 

[koopaGG]

... and some day in the very distant future PC gaming will be a thing of the past... simply because of pirating.

No.

 

[cerebrex]

No.

Yes, unfortunately. You don't want to hear it, but it's true. I can back it up with loads and loads of evidence, fact, and current trends. PC Games don't sell anywhere as well as console games, they take more time to produce, the designers have to continually update and patch them..etc..etc.. For game design companies to prevent piracy (or at least, control it from the masses) they must put the games in an isolated environment, where it is much more difficult to access key information, and modify it.

 

[Dethred]

I think you'll have to explain why just a firmware flash to the Xbox 360 allows downloaded and burned double layer disks to run perfectly on the console? Man, They have taken some big steps to prevent it... putting apoxy over the port where you can flash the firmware.

 

[cerebrex]

I think you'll have to explain why just a firmware flash to the Xbox 360 allows downloaded and burned double layer disks to run perfectly on the console? Man, They have taken some big steps to prevent it... putting apoxy over the port where you can flash the firmware.

dude, grow up... less than 1/10th of 1% have modded xbox's seriously, just because you frequent these ubergeek forums doesn't meet everyone is like us... we are an unbelieveable minority.

 

[Dethred]

dude, grow up... less than 1/10th of 1% have modded xbox's seriously, just because you frequent these ubergeek forums doesn't meet everyone is like us... we are an unbelieveable minority.

Judging by the way you immediately said "grow up", you must have some of your own to do. You now probably turned off everyone who is going to read this thread or originally thought you had some decent points.

Your argument against what I said is baseless, as most people I know that own computers, and even some that know how to build their own, aren't bothered to try and download or crack a game.

That being said, I personally know 3 people that own Xbox 360's. One of them hasn't paid for a single game, the other one rents most of them, and the other one is pestering me to show him how to mod the thing after telling him about the first friend.

So where are your so-called statistics that you plan to back your argument with?

 

[koopaGG]

Yes, unfortunately. You don't want to hear it, but it's true. I can back it up with loads and loads of evidence, fact, and current trends. PC Games don't sell anywhere as well as console games, they take more time to produce, the designers have to continually update and patch them..etc..etc.. For game design companies to prevent piracy (or at least, control it from the masses) they must put the games in an isolated environment, where it is much more difficult to access key information, and modify it.

If you strongly believe this prove it with all these evidence and facts you have.

 

[cerebrex]

Judging by the way you immediately said "grow up", you must have some of your own to do. You now probably turned off everyone who is going to read this thread or originally thought you had some decent points.

Your argument against what I said is baseless, as most people I know that own computers, and even some that know how to build their own, aren't bothered to try and download or crack a game.

That being said, I personally know 3 people that own Xbox 360's. One of them hasn't paid for a single game, the other one rents most of them, and the other one is pestering me to show him how to mod the thing after telling him about the first friend.

So where are your so-called statistics that you plan to back your argument with?

I was attempting to shine light on your obvious bias and narrow view of the industry, you're wrong and I'll prove it.

"According to the NPD Group, a research and industry-tracking company, console games outsell their PC counterparts more than two to one in dollar figures. That comes as no surprise when you look at the top-selling games. Right now, the console market, with titles such as WWF Smackdown!, is dominated by action and sports titles, which account for more than 63% of all console games sold (see the "Market Share" sidebar for more information), according to PC Data. In contrast, top-selling PC games come from the strategy and family entertainment categories, with a combined share of more than 40% of the PC market. (See the "Market Share" sidebar for more information.)" -why? because you can't play RTS games very well without a mouse... the console platform hasn't quite tailored to this yet... and being 40% of the PC sales are dominated by a genre which has no real console competitor... thats further worry for the PC gaming industry. If you apply some knowledge of gaming, you will realize that in the past, PC Gaming was leaps and bounds ahead of console gaming. People were playing sonic the hedgehog when I was playing Quake on the internet with people.. now THAT is why the industry was so big back then... there was a reason to own a PC... for the better games. However, you should now see that consoles are almost parallel or possible exceeding the power of PC's, you might not like to hear that, but it's true. I'd say of PC gamers, only ~10% could run gears of war at any respectible framerate given their hardware... were talking from the civilization/sims players all the way to the emulator communities.. they are gamers.. but only a very small minority actually have the cutting edge top of the line hardware to do it. The price and cost of constantly upgrading PC's is just not monetarily feasible to most people... I spent 1,300 to go from my 2.4C northwood @ 3.6 w/ 6800GT (in most terms, still a rather quick PC) to my E6600 w/ my 8800GTS -- and now it can play games that the 360 does.. but for 4 times the price. Furthermore, your very rebuttal to my statement is further proof that the PC industry is doomed. You cite the fact that some your friends (and yourself) have NEVER purchased an xbox 360 game or are wanting to learn how to mod it... now let me ask you something... do you play the games you download? Now, why the hell own an expensive gaming PC if you do your gaming on the console? All you need is a P3 700MHz and a 16x DVD burner to download torrents and get them to your gaming rig... the 360. When more of your gaming and time is spent on your console, you will justify less and less to spend on your PC for gaming purposes.

"What's driving these remarkable sales? An ever-widening consumer base that wants to gobble up these products. It used to be that "gamer" was synonymous with "adolescent male," but a new survey that Peter D. Hart Research Associate conducted for the Interactive Digital Software Association (IDSA) blows away that stereotype. The research found that 60% of Americans six years old and older&#8212;roughly 145 million people&#8212;"routinely" play PC/video games. Of these, 43% are female, and the average age of game players is 28." - Children don't know what "firmware" is - they don't solder chips, or flash firmware.. that's a pipe dream. A LARGE majority of women and children have absolutely no deep knowledge of computers - anywhere near the amount needed to flash their firmware, or mod their console... we're omitting a majority of console/pc owners right here.. but lets continue. Adolescent males... which are the primary target for savvy console modders... the overwhelming portion of them do not have the knowledge to mod their consoles either... but the largest portion would certainly come from this.

And, to answer your question again... why don't they do anything to stop you're modding? Because they don't care! You're such a insignificant minority, it isn't even profitable for them to try... you're own statements prove my points time and time again. If modding was so "big" and everyone you know "has never purchased an xbox game" then why in the hell would this huge percentage of people you theorize to be modding their consoles NOT have enough effect to even merit the console manufacturers time to stop it? Because you're theory is wrong! so few people mod their xbox's that it isn't worth their time...

Look at the OP's statistics... PC Game sales are dropping like a brick... theres your cold hard evidence right from the industry itself... people are going to consoles. Follow the money, it's always where the answer lies... Consoles are taking more and more PC Gamers away from their computers... and when more leave the PC, you'll have less and less games... resulting in even less reason to spend money on your computer to game... resulting again, in less games available to sell to less people capable of running it... understand? It's already happened... there are literally 4x the titles released on consoles than on PC's.... don't you see why games go to consoles first, and then SOMETIMES make it to the PC... months and even years later... because it's their second priority.

 

[Obi_Kwiet]

It's becoming more a nice market, but there's still some compelling reason to develop for it. Pioneering new ideas before spending the money on the console licence, more freedom, ect. Besides, even if there a fewer PC gamers, no one is going to ignore a possible market.

I think the majority of the really lucrative games will by MMORPGs, RTSs and games like Spore that can be played by the more casual people laptops.

 

[cerebrex]

It's becoming more a nice market, but there's still some compelling reason to develop for it. Pioneering new ideas before spending the money on the console licence, more freedom, ect. Besides, even if there a fewer PC gamers, no one is going to ignore a possible market.

I think the majority of the really lucrative games will by MMORPGs, RTSs and games like Spore that can be played by the more casual people laptops.

I agree... MMORPG's and RTS's will dominate... but actually... this has already happened. The reason is they have little to no competition.. which is again a bad thing for PC gamers... because they consoles DO finally have RPG's and MMORPG's you're going to have a far larger community due to the far larger consumer base on the consoles... further drawing people away from the PC market. I certainly hope the previous posters get an understand of what I'm saying, it makes perfect sense.

 

[krameriffic]

People on a hardcore PC gaming and hardware forum will be prone to blaming it on the quality of the games because they tend to be nostalgic and conservative with regard to their gaming habits. I am exactly the same way, and I can give hundreds of reasons why today's games are worse than yesterday's, but it is important to understand the point of view of somebody like us. I fear and hate change, and it's pretty easy to see it when comparing the time periods of today and five to ten years ago.

 

[Dark_Legacy]

The day that PC Gaming dies is the day that [H]ard|OCP commits ritual suicide.

Not even kidding either. Some of us here don't even know why we live other than to love computers.

What you're speaking of is like casting down a religion. You have absolutely no idea how horrible and widespread the consequences will be.

 

[Conker]

We just need new material and not rehashed rerunned replayed games we already played basically in other games.

Its like eatting your favorite food over and over for like 4 years. Your going to throw up sooner or later like that movie supersize me. After awhile it gets old and you don't want to buy it anymore. Same goes for videogames and everything else lol. Theres only up to a certain point until that style of gaming or gameplay gets old and unwanted basically. quakewars and other new games will change that most likely .

 

[Dark_Legacy]

We just need new material and not rehashed rerunned replayed games we already played basically in other games.

Its like eatting your favorite food over and over for like 4 years. Your going to throw up sooner or later like that movie supersize me. After awhile it gets old and you don't want to buy it anymore. Same goes for videogames and everything else lol. Theres only up to a certain point until that style of gaming or gameplay gets old and unwanted basically. quakewars and other new games will change that most likely .

Don't forget SPORE.

 

[cerebrex]

The day that PC Gaming dies is the day that [H]ard|OCP commits ritual suicide.

Not even kidding either. Some of us here don't even know why we live other than to love computers.

What you're speaking of is like casting down a religion. You have absolutely no idea how horrible and widespread the consequences will be.

I know, blasphemy of the highest caliber... but let the truth be known, it is inevitable... as more games move to consoles, you will have less pc customers to market to. But, as I said originally... in the distant future.