PC Build Critique Requested

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WolfpupNX

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Messages
167
Hey all,

Been planning my new rig for months now...changing...changing again...etc...etc... Finally close to pulling the plug, but should I? I want to note first...this'll be my first new machine (my very first complete build too) in 6 years. I build 'em top of the line and try to get a long life out of them. So I'm not using budget parts here and I understand it's expensive. I'm mostly looking for future-upgradability and as much future-proofing as I can.

Also please note I am planning to use stock air cooling over. I do not overclock (aside from buying pre-OC parts such as video cards). I'm looking for something that runs cool and stable at stock. I want both stability and performance, but emphasis on stability.

I've been waiting and waiting and waiting and am finally at the realization that I can wait forever with something new around the corner or I can just do it. And where it's at right now seems pretty good...or as good as it gets at least.

This rig will be used for work, games, lot of multitasking online, lil multimedia...etc.

Here are the specs I'm thinking about. Criticism/alternatives definitely appreciated, especially about incompatibilities, etc.

Intel Core 2 Extreme Quad QX9650 3.00 GHz 1333 12 MB Cache CPU
- I'm so tempted to wait for the 1600 FSB QX9750, but as I understand it, that's next year, and this looks like a kicker of a processor. Comes with a new stock cooler that looks like it should be decent too.

Gigabyte GA-X38T-DQ6 Motherboard
- Ditto - part of me wants to wait for X48, BUT, since nobody really knows when that is and this supports 1600 FSB, won't that mean it will have full support for 1600 FSB Penryn's later? So essentially, this should be about as good as X48 for my purposes? This thing looks like a serious mobo that supports just about anything, present and future. Any bugs/serious issues/flaws I should be aware of? I know BIOS updates are frequent already - any hardware problems that a BIOS won't be able to fix?

Corsair 4GB (2 x 2GB) XMS3 DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) w/ XMP
- A bit confused about this, but this looks to be my best bet as far as memory right now. FSB 1600 support, Intel XMP technology, heat spreader, and 2GB per chip so I'll leave slots free in the future if I wish to upgrade. Any better fit for me out there? Anyt compatibility issues?

2X Western Digital Raptor X 150 GB SATA 10,000 RPM HDD OEM in RAID 0
- Yes, I know RAID 0 is risky, but this will give me a 300 GB drive, and with frequent sheduled backups, should give me about the best performance I can find on one of this machine's biggest limiting factors.

Western Digital My Book Studio 320GB External HDD
- For said backups. Plan to schedule them automatically for all my important stuff.

Mitsumi Black Floppy/Media Reader
- Might as well. I work with PC's and fixing 'em on the side so might still have to read floppy disks once in a blue moon (even though I can't recall the last time that happened). A built in memory card reader would be nice too.

ASUS Black SATA 20X DVD+/-R DVD Burner
- May as well go SATA, and this supports Lightscribe as well. Plus trust ASUS.

ASUS Black SATA DVD-ROM E616A3T OEM
- Ditto on the SATA as secondary read-only drive.

eVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra Superclocked
- This one is an especially hard choice given the new GT, and I want to wait for the refresh of the GTX/Ultra, but there's no indication of how long that'll be. The GT is just not top of the line (how I wish for a new G92-based killer). At least with eVGA, should a new G92-based monster happen within the next three months, I should be able to step-up. GTS rumors are great, but they're just rumors so far. Also, I was originally going to go SLI. The 680i boards pretty much rule that out (with the stability problems I've read about, simply not comfortable for a long-term machine based on this platform). And frankly I'm getting sick of seeing news stories about 4X (and more) SLI/Xfire. I think I'm firmly in the "Let's stick with one video card and upgrade more frequently" camp at the moment. Even if I wasn't, just not sure X-Fire makes sense right now, plus I don't like the power requirements/heat output of a multi-card solution. So I'm thinking this is my best option.

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro
- I see they have a PCI-e version now with optical, but I think this PCI version probably fits me better because of the X-RAM and performance whistles. I know Vista has had some compatibility with the X-Fi in the past, but I'm hoping that's getting better now.

Logitech Z-5500 5.1 Speakers
- Seems like a quite good first 5.1 PC system for me. Though figuring out how exactly I'm gonna do 5.1 in my room is going to be a pip, but I think it can be done. =oP

SilverStone TJ09-SW Case
- I keep trying to convince myself to go with a smaller TARDIS-like case that's roomly enough (perhaps a Lian-Li), but people keep convincing me this is one of the ultimate cases out there. So, it may be big, but it looks beauuuutiful. And I think it should keep everything cool. I just may have to put it beside my desk instead of under it... Hah.

3X SilverStone FN121 Fan
- Additional fans for the extra slots my case offers. I may not be overclocking, but I'm a big fan of ample cooling. This should give the case alone five fans plus all the component fans, so I think I should be running nice and cool.

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Crossfire
- Alright, I'll be perfectly blunt. I like the red, and it's one of the best reviewed PSU's to boot. (Actually, I adored the copper, but I'm not seeing that around anymore). I should think 750 watts will be plenty for this system and hopefully future processor, RAM, and single video card upgrades. I'd probably want more if I went SLI (not an option) or CrossFire, but I don't really anticipate doing that. Also, this PSU seems to have a really good reputation. The only thing I don't like about it is that it's not modular, which might mean messier cables. For that reason, I'd consider the Silverstone Modular 750W offering, but I'm thinking the PC&P really is the way to go, and supposedly non-modular's are more solid anyhow (if you believe PCP&P's claims).

APC Back-UPS RS BR1500 LCD
- Love the LCD on this, and I think it should have sufficient power for my needs, hopefully with upgrades in the future as well.

BenQ FP241WZ 24" Monitor
- I wanna go 24" and this really looks like my best option. I was going to go with the Dell WFP2407-HC, but it has bad ghosting issues apparently that haven't been fixed, and I do want to game, so this looks like my best option. HP apparently has one too, but...neh...haven't had good experiences with HP in the past.

Saitek Eclipse II Keyboard
- Looks like my best bet. I want backlit and gaming but still compact. Considered the G15, and it looks very nice, but I think it would just take up too much space. I have one of those desks with a pullout drawer and want to keep the keyboard and mouse on that (29" wide). The new G15 is more compact, but unfortunately it seems impossible to get accurate dimensions on this compared to the Saitek Eclipse II, and I would think from the pics the G15 would STILL have to be larger.

Microsoft Habu Laser Mouse
- I want a mouse that's simple enough (some of these new gaming look too complex), wired, preferably backlit, and comfy. I've always used Microsoft mice, and I like the looks of the Habu, so I'm thinking it may be perfect for me. Other suggestions welcome. Probably Ratpadz XT mousepad to go with it.

Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 64-Bit OEM
- May as well go 64-bit, especially with the extra RAM. I know XP is still popular, but the fact is, Vista is maturing, I want to be able to run DX10, and it just seems like this is the only logical choice. I'd love to wait for SP1, but that's going to be a bit yet, and at least a lot of the initial problems are starting to get resolved.

Thanks again all for any/all advice/recommendations!
 
Pretty top notch stuff you've picked. Kick ASS even! :eek:

I can only comment on what I have used.

So,I have the Creative X-Fi Gamer and with the latest drivers it works fine with my Vista 64. Install the driver first and then the console. If you use a microphone you'll have to go in the console and turn it on.I did not even try the CD drivers that came with the card as others have had problems with those drivers.
BTW.. I installed NO other crap from creative other than just what I mentioned. Others may have more info there.

I have a PC Power & Cooling 510 that's performed flawlessly over two years now. Have no fear with that choice. I am very happy with my new Corsair 620HX too. ;)

I have the G15 keyboard and LOVE IT! If the new G15 ver2 will fit your desk GO FOR IT!

I'm very happy with the Vista Ultimate 64 OEM I'm using.
I though about dual booting with my retail XP Pro 32 but said hell with it after getting to know Vista a little better. :D
 
Thanks much for the suggestions!

Glad to hear the X-Fi works well for you. When doing an OS install, I never use driver CD's either - always go with the newest web version for my OS (and usually the minimum depending on the hardware - I don't like all the fluff either unless terribly useful).

I considered the Corsair PSU's - look like great units. Just liked the PCP&C a tad better for my purposes - glad to hear it's working well for you.

I might rethink the G15. I think it will be just a bit too large for my desk is the only problem. Though, It might be realistic to move the keyboard and mouse to the top of my desk. I'd prefer not, but I'm moving from a CRT to an LCD, so that right there should give me more space to play with. And then width wouldn't be as much of an issue. But I could definitely use that desk space for other purposes, so that's why I wanted to use the drawer. I dunno - I think I'm gonna try and get exact dimensions of both it and the Eclipse II and we'll see.

I actually think I'll like Vista 64 for the most part. Worried a bit about compatibility issues, but most everything I run should be supported, and since it's all new hardware, it should definitely have appropriate drivers. Glad to hear you're liking it.

Thanks much again for the helpful responses, and any others of course welcome and appreciated!
 
WolfpupNX said:
I build 'em top of the line and try to get a long life out of them. So I'm not using budget parts here and I understand it's expensive. I'm mostly looking for future-upgradability and as much future-proofing as I can.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm not a fan of the that kind of thinking/planning. IMO, it's much better to just get a reasonably priced rig and upgrade it as your needs expand or change. Sure you can drop $3000 - $5000 on a rig and be done with it. But if you build a good $1800 rig now and use the rest of the money to periodically upgrade it, you'll still have a pretty powerful rig 2-3 even 6 years from now, even more powerful than what you're planning to build now.

Now for my criticisms:
CPU:
Intel Extreme CPUs are not worth it IMO. For the short term, yes they are good but if you think long term, they're a horrible buy. Think back to the previous generation of Intel Extreme Pentium Ds. A year later, Intel released their new C2Ds. The $185 E6300 at the time outperformed those Pentium Extreme Editions CPUs. In 2007, an $80 E2160 still outperform those Pentium Extremem Editions.
Basically, they do not hold up their worth.

That's gotta be heartbreaking to know that you spent $1000 on CPU hoping it would provide you with high performance for a while when a year later, a $200 CPU outperforms it by large margin. So go for something cheaper like a Q6600 or E6750.

Mobo:
X48 won't bring too much to the table either. Same with the X38s One of the major problems with the X38s is that a decent P35 mobo still performs and can OC better than a X38 mobo. There's only two 1600FSB Penryn CPUs that I know of and those are the Extreme Editions. So if you don't go with your original CPU choice, then yes the X38 will be just as good. FYI though, there aren't any cards that can fully saturate the current PCI-E 1.1 bandwidth. I doubt there will be any time soon.

RAM:
No comment here. Still doing some research on this.

Got no problem with the rest of your setup. All are pretty excellent choices.
 
Thanks for the great feedback. I see what you're saying about price/performance. I think it's just one of my weird personality traits - I like going all out with the highest end parts I can find at the time of my build (but still build in upgradability with the plan to use it a long time). It probably in all honesty doesn't make as much sense financially to do it this way - I guess I just like the feeling of nothing more I could do to make this thing the best I can at time time, if that makes any sense (within reason - for example, I'm not going multi-GPU because I don't like my options). I tend (from past experience even though I never assembled the thing myself before) to do this (build the best I can), be happy with it, wait until end of life or a while after for the motherboard/chipset (no more CPU's developed for it, aging cards, etc.), then upgrade as far as I can and be happy with it til it just isn't powerful enough anymore to run/do what I want it to do. Because of the odd states of video cards right now, my upgrade cycle might go a bit differently this time, but that's the general gist of my "strategy". Not trying to be difficult - just the way I tick - lol.

By the way, from the budget perspective, the DDR3 RAM is also completely unreasonably priced right now and it would make more sense to buy a DDR2/DDR3 hybrid board (or DDR2 board). On the other hand, remember I'm not planning to OC, so, with this RAM, I won't have any reason to upgrade it for the life of the PC (though I can still add another 4GB of the same stuff later if I need to for much cheaper), unless of course, they revise the board standard upwards with a BIOS update, which I think is unlikely.

As far as the processor, extreme additions are certainly extreme (and priced accordingly), but there should be more compatible chips coming down the pike eventually I can upgrade to for my mobo (and if given enough time, fairly cheaply) - this particular X38 supposedly supports FSB 1600 natively, so I shouldn't be missing that from X48. And I'll have support for new video cards if they DO take advantage of PCIE 2, but I see what you're saying about PCIE not being saturated yet. P35 looks like a great chipset, but I'm more comfortable future-proofing a bit more than that.

*shrugs* Guess it's just POV. Your post makes a lot of sense, and I might very well kick myself a bit later for some of the prices I paid if I go this route. But, I don't think I'll really regret the extra oompf now, and I'll still have cheap upgradeability later. Plus, I just always have wanted to try my hand at building a badass machine myself as I never have before. I dunno. I hope you see a little where I'm coming from.
 
everything looks nice, but if you are going 64bit, go with a ddr2 x38 board and get 4 sticks of 2GB corsair/gskill ddr2 ram (only $135 a pair), so a total of 8GB ram instead of dropping $1000 for only 4gb ddr3 ram that you can't even feel the difference. This way your next upgrade will be mobo or adding another video card only.

One more thing, get the Logitech MX Revolution Laser Wireless Mouse, once u use it u wont buy any microsoft hardwards lol
 
the MX Revolution mouse is the best . I have the side buttons on the scroll wheel programmed to move my tabs, the back and front buttons for webpage setup, the search button as a refresh button web pages and various setups on programs .

Get it at ewiz its 67$
 
I'll add my two cents....

Right now, it's not worth getting an X38 chipset and/or DDR3 RAM. They've just been released and nobody knows how well they'll perform -- right now. You could get a good Intel P35/G33 or Nvidia 680i (if you want to use SLI) motherboard and, with all of the features you feel you need, you could build around that over the next two to five years. And DDR2 RAM is insanely cheap... you could purchase 4GB of DDR2 800 RAM for under $200. And right now, there are few programs/games that would properly utilize all of that RAM.

I agree with Danny, especially in regards to the Extreme Edition processor. The two main selling points with EE are usually unlocked multipliers (meaning you could overclock them "easily," with proper cooling) and Hyper Threading (fooling the computer into thinking that you have an eight-core processor) -- and not many people are going to notice the difference between the QX9650 and the Q6600, outside of programs running/loading a few seconds faster (and often, that's due to a combination of multiple upgrades, not just the CPU).

If you're going to purchase two Raptors and an external hard drive, you should also have an internal hard drive (with at least 500GB of space) to serve as a secondary storage/backup drive inside your computer.

While I have no problems with the 8800 Ultra you plan on buying, I'm not so sure on how well games will play on the 24" monitor -- especially with new games, like Crysis, designed to tax video cards. If you feel that you don't have enough graphics power, I would suggest getting two 8800GTX cards (and using a motherboard that has SLI) instead to compensate.Problem is, the next generation of high-end cards could perform much better than those two in SLI... historically, that's been true, but it's hard to tell right now.

Like Danny, I'm more of a best-bang-for-your-buck type a guy... while I may (often) spend a little extra for quality/stability, I won't spend money on stuff just to have it. But any further commentary on my part would be minor nit-picking (based on my personal preferences), so I'll just stop here.

Don't get me wrong -- the rig you're planning looks awesome -- but I don't see the need in getting the "latest, greatest" stuff right now.
 
Hey all - thanks again for the great responses!

While the 8 GB of RAM suggestion is tempting, I really think 4 is more than adequate for me right now - I'd rather the faster RAM I think. X38 really doesn't have an advantage without it. Though I agree the price is pretty insane right now...gonna shop around and see if I can get that down any. (Though it should be much cheaper if I ever do up it to 8).

Looked at the Logitech MX Revolution suggested, and I just don't know if I want a wireless mouse. Call me old-school, but I actually like having the wires and not having to worry about batteries. It does look like a really, REALLY nice mouse tho', and Logitech has a nice line that I'd consider, plus it sounds really useful. I'll think about it more.

680i I've decided against - too many problems even though initially I really did want to go SLI. I know most of these issues are sorted out, but the longevity of the board worries me as a lot seem to die. P35 I considered for a while and looks like a fantastic chipset, but to me, it's worth the premium for future upgradability to go X38 (PCIE 2.0, DDR3, and possibly better CPU support). I agree there's some risk with X38 being so new, but I'm hoping it's similarly stable to the P35 once it matures. I've heard of some problems, but not nearly as many as I've heard with 680i's. But, like you said, it hasn't been out that long yet, so there's always a risk.

Hmmm. I'm a little curious why I'd need a secondary hard drive inside if I had a fast external solution? Mind explaining your rationale? If my RAID array failed, assuming one of the drives was still good (usable), I'd simply format and use that until I had a better solution in place. It'd be small but at least let me get up and running, and I'd have my backup.

Crysis isn't going to play well (with maximum detail that is) on anything right now no matter what I do. I have quite a few older games (F.E.A.R., Half-Life 2, Quake 4, etc.) I have yet to play and I'm sure they'll max out quite nicely on an Ultra. If it's eVGA, I can hope to step up to something next-gen (or faster this-gen). As much as I'd like to go SLI, I just can't justify getting a 680i just for that, nor do I like the current ATI offerings well enough to go XFire. So I'll stick with one card and upgrade more frequently, then play Crysis when I think I have something fast enough.

I definitely see what you guys are saying from a bang-for-the-buck perspective. I will think about it more, but I can't promise I won't do this. Still, never hurts to consider my other options and some of this other hardware you've suggested.

I have a bit of time to think about this stuff - probably going to wait and try to buy on Black Friday with hopefully some sales/bargains/deals going on. I've realized NewEgg's starting to get pricy on some stuff, so I'll be sure to shop around and try to get the best deal I can on the parts

Oh, and for your entertainment, my current specs (and it's served me well):
- Asus P4T-E 400 FSB Motherboard
- P4 Northwood 2.6 GHz
- 1 GB RDRAM
- GeForce 6800 Ultra Video Card (256 MB; AGP 4X)
- Soundblaster Audigy 2
- DVD-RW, DVD, and Floppy
- 56K Modem (haven't used this in I dunno how long)
- Antec Power Supply (550W?)
- Coolermaster Aluminum Case
 
While the 8 GB of RAM suggestion is tempting, I really think 4 is more than adequate for me right now - I'd rather the faster RAM I think. X38 really doesn't have an advantage without it. Though I agree the price is pretty insane right now...gonna shop around and see if I can get that down any. (Though it should be much cheaper if I ever do up it to 8).
Click to expand...

Price on DDR3 RAM may not come down for a while -- maybe next year, possibly two years from now. Right now, 2GB of RAM is the "sweet spot" for today's games, while 4GB is useful for Photoshop, Maya, video/graphics editing, and virtual machines. Anything more right now is overkill -- and it probably won't be utilized properly.

680i I've decided against - too many problems even though initially I really did want to go SLI. I know most of these issues are sorted out, but the longevity of the board worries me as a lot seem to die. P35 I considered for a while and looks like a fantastic chipset, but to me, it's worth the premium for future upgradability to go X38 (PCIE 2.0, DDR3, and possibly better CPU support). I agree there's some risk with X38 being so new, but I'm hoping it's similarly stable to the P35 once it matures. I've heard of some problems, but not nearly as many as I've heard with 680i's. But, like you said, it hasn't been out that long yet, so there's always a risk.
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While I understand your concerns, I still believe that it's too early to go towards X38. It hasn't matured yet. And in regards to longevity, it shouldn't be too much of a problem -- you've kept up with your current rig for over six years. But it's a matter of preference, so do what you have to do.

Hmmm. I'm a little curious why I'd need a secondary hard drive inside if I had a fast external solution? Mind explaining your rationale? If my RAID array failed, assuming one of the drives was still good (usable), I'd simply format and use that until I had a better solution in place. It'd be small but at least let me get up and running, and I'd have my backup.
Click to expand...

This is a matter of personal preference. I suggested the secondary drive primarily for extra storage space, and as another place to back up important data (I'm a big believer in redundancy when it comes to backups.) I personally have more than 300GB of stuff, and I never like to have a hard drive more than 50% full. As for a "fast" external drive, make sure that it supports eSATA, which has transfer speeds that are faster than USB or Firewire 400. (Don't worry; external drives with eSATA also have USB 2.0 and/or Firewire 400.)

Crysis isn't going to play well (with maximum detail that is) on anything right now no matter what I do. I have quite a few older games (F.E.A.R., Half-Life 2, Quake 4, etc.) I have yet to play and I'm sure they'll max out quite nicely on an Ultra. If it's eVGA, I can hope to step up to something next-gen (or faster this-gen). As much as I'd like to go SLI, I just can't justify getting a 680i just for that, nor do I like the current ATI offerings well enough to go XFire. So I'll stick with one card and upgrade more frequently, then play Crysis when I think I have something fast enough.
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There's no guarantee that the next generation of Nvidia cards will be out within the EVGA step-up period. But, considering the fact that you have/are getting a 24" monitor, the 8800 Ultra is a good choice.
 
Ah, I see what you're saying about the storage. I dunno. Originally I was gonna go with a third internal drive and just do backups to that for simplicity, but I decided an external hard drive might be safer if my power supply blew or something extreme. As long as I make sure to do my backups, I'm not too worried about only having the one backup - I can write all the really important stuff to DVD as well. And the My Book I'm looking at does indeed support eSATA, so that shouldn't be a problem.

That's very true about the eVGA stepup, BUT, it's a great option to have if there is a surprise in the next few months. And if nothing comes out until afterwards, so be it...it's still the most powerful card out there at the moment. Wish the GT was just a little more powerful as part of me still wants to go with that because of the value, but I think ultimately I'll do better with the Ultra.

Appreciate your advice, and I'll take into consideration what you're saying about X38 (though I still love the features it has). There might be a new roundup before I buy as well that I can look at. It is a bit worrysome going with something this new.
 
After reading the posts in this thread, as well as your responses, I must say that I strongly agree with Danny Bui on all his points. You will spend well over $3000-$5000 on a rig of very marginal value when amortized over the length of the average performance computer's lifespan. To put it another way, even if you find personal or emotional value in buying the best parts available right now, you will be dumping thousands of dollars into the toilet on this rig. An OC'd computer built for half the cost can significantly outperform your planned rig today, and will arguably be just as stable. A non OC'd computer built for half the cost today and upgraded a year from now will significantly outperform your computer a year from now, and will still cost much less, even with the upgrade.

No computer is technically an investment because a computer doesn't typically increase in value after purchase, so I can't say that buying an Extreme Edition chip, DDR-3 RAM, and an X38 motherboard is a bad investment. I can say it's a very, very foolish purchase if your goal is buying the best performance with your money.

As for why the processor is a bad idea, re-read Danny's argument. The fact is that you can buy a Q6600 for $300 today and while it won't beat a QX9650 at stock, the performance delta sure isn't worth $700. Perhaps it's worth $50 or $100 at best. If you OC that Q6600 to say 3.6ghz (a very stable and achievable speed if you get a good cooler,) you'll match if not exceed the Extreme chip's performance. I know you specified you didn't want to OC your chip, but there is a reason why so many here and at other forums recommend it. It's easy, stable, safe, and can save you a lot of cash. Now to increase your system's performance over its length of usefulness, you can save that $700 and apply a fraction of it to a processor upgrade next year. Typically, a mid-range part from next year (or at times even next month) will significantly outperform a high-end part from today.

As for the other components, reasonable posts have already been made. The main issues are with the DDR-3 RAM and the X-38 motherboard. Both are bad buys today, as both are expensive and offer no performance improvement over DDR-2 and a P-35 motherboard respectively. In fact, Rrviews have mostly panned X-38 motherboards, stating that the best P-35 options (A-Bit ip35-Pro, ASUS P5KE) outperform their X-38 siblings.

I would strongly recommend you reconsider your buying logic with this rig. Instead of the QX, get a Q6600, and even if you don't overclock it, you'll be better off replacing it in a year or two with a mid-range Penryn than getting the QX today. Get an Abit ip-35 pro or equivalent motherboard instead of the X-38. Crossfire does not look to be of any importance over the next generation of computer components, considering that AMD seems to be marketing Raedon cards at a more mid-range market. As for RAM, simply buy the cheapest PC-6400 / 800 mhz RAM you can find from a reputable manufacturer (Corsair, G.Skill, Geil, Cruxial, etc.) Buying faster RAM is only of benefit when pairing to low end processors that need a substantial OC to match more expensive models. When paired to a quad, the extra speed goes unused and money is wasted.

Good luck,

Mark.
 
I, obviously, agree with Mark, Danny, tiraides, etc... don't waste your money for marginal performance gains.
 
I have nothing to contribute to the discussion at hand. But, in researching for an upcoming build, I want to say that I find this thread incredibly useful. I tend to side with Wolfpup; I try to build the best at the time (within reason) and hang on to it for 4+ years. I'm reconsidering a few things after reading a few well-put replies.

To those whom contributed: thank you :)
 
i'll add my personal experience. my cousin upgrades every 4-5 years, and has the top-of-the-line, no-overclocking mentality as well. the computer tends to slow down around its 4th year or so, especially for gaming. i have a 2yr upgrade cycle and overclock to the chip's max. this allows me to get the most performance out of my money. while my cousin spends $2k on a system every 4 yrs, i spend $1k on a system every 2 yrs. i always end up with a comparable or faster system.
 
Great responses all - they really are much appreciated, and I really appreciate the logic (and am also glad this thread helped someone else =oD).

I will think about this - it's hard to let it go, so no promises as I'm stubborn that way, but I certainly do appreciate the advice and see what you mean about budget parts making a lot more sense in the long run. If I were to go this route instead, I'd probably still go with an X38 (I know, but I like the futureproofing), but a hybrid board with DDR2 (though maybe 1333) and a non-extreme processor...and then possibly a GT instead of the Ultra. That'd still give me upgradeability for later, and it would be a lot cheaper.

I can't really explain my aversion to overclocking... I highly respect people who do it and think the results are sometimes quite amazing, but I'm not fond of the idea of liquid cooling, and I'd just really worry about heat issues.

On the plus side, I've all but decided to go with the Logitech G15 keyboard (new version). It seems both the Saitek and Logitech come in at about 19.5 inches, so might as well. That'll give me a litte less space for my mouse, but I don't think I'll lose that much (and if I have to move stuff to the desk itself instead, so be it).

As far as mouse, I may look at some of the Logitech line. That MX518 does look nice, though I'm not sure how much I'd use certain features (like DPI switching).

Great suggestions, all!
 
Just thought I'd post a quick update in case anyone's interested. I still plan to build soon, but I've decided to wait a little bit longer (probably very early next year - depends when things come out). I hate to wait, but the more I research and analyze, the more I think it'd be smarter and now is not the best time, especially if I use my "best at the moment" strategy (and if I decide to build a bit cheaper, I'll still have more options and cheaper prices to work with later). My main reasons:

1.) You're right about the X38 chipset being so new. It looks promising and good, but it's hard to even find a good roundup of current boards (especially DDR3), etc., let alone memory compatibility information. (Though I didn't post in this thread, I started having second thoughts about the Gigabyte board and was considering the ASUS P5E3 Deluxe instead...and it was becoming impossible to decide due to the lack of info). I still want to go with something that supports future technology, and I'm thinking waiting for X38 to mature a bit and some X48 chipsets to actually show up and show what they can do. Official 1600 FSB support might be worth it depending on the premium and how much the memory controller's improved.

2.) If I am going DDR3, this will allow more options to become available (and hopefully at least a little cheaper - I already found a 4GB DDR3 kit from Corsair [on TigerDirect believe it or not] at about HALF the price I priced it at Newegg). At any rate, right now, there's only one real choice for DDR3 1600 if you want to use 2 GB modules, and I can't even verify compatibility yet.

3.) If I'm going for an extreme processor in the end (still undecided), I might as well wait for the one with the 1600 FSB. Seems premature to buy one now at such a premium when the full Yorkfield is just around the corner. (And again, if I do decide to go cheaper, some other options should be released around that time that should still be amazing performers).

4.) I just can't justify the Ultra prices and G80 technology, nor can I really justify getting a GT that's not as powerful. Yes, eVGA's step up program is great, but with the new GTS right around the corner, and hopefully a few more surprises (new Ultra? new X2 card?), in the end it'd be a lot less hassle to wait and get something fresher (and then still have the step-up should something else come down the pike later).

Aside from that, I think the rest of the components will likely stay the same (case, PSU, etc.), but it's hard to tell for sure as a lot can happen in a month or two. The only changes I've made so far is I'm probably going to go with the G15 keyboard instead of the Saitek and either a G5 or MX518 mouse (probably the G5, though only by a nose).

I hate to wait, but this is a major purchase, so I might as well try and get the best timing possible, regardless of how I go in the end.
 
It's your money and you are free to do what you want with it, but you're poised to make some very poor decisions. As we all have been saying again and again, the "best at the moment" strategy is a foolish one. Still, it's your money.

Note that if you wait for a 1600mhz Penryn Extreme chip your only motherboard option (as far as we know right now) will be an X48-based board. No other chipset available now or coming out (that is known) will officially support a 1600mhz FSB, which is likely to be a requirement in order for the 1600mhz to function.

Also note that Anand's review of an Engineering Sample 1600hz chip noted that it ran very hot... something very uncharacteristic of Core 2 chips.

Mark.
 
Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah, I've been watching the Anand article. Apparently some of the overheating/power consumption issues have already been resolved with a new BIOS for the Asus board they used. If it's still a problem near release, I'll go for something else instead.

As to the 1600 MHz FSB, yeah, I wanna see how X48 shapes up. I know some of the ASUS and Gigabyte X38 boards both unofficially support 1600 FSB (for Gigabyte, it's even all over the box), but I'm not sure where support ends in those instances.

And I do understand a lot of people view that strategy as a foolish one. I'm also considering rethinking that strategy and going a bit more mainstream/budgetwise. Either way, I think seeing what happens around January will be beneficial, and then I'll make my decision.
 
Cool, just revisit this thread or make a new one BEFORE you buy. ;)
 
WolfpupNX said:
Hey all,

Been planning my new rig for months now...changing...changing again...etc...etc... Finally close to pulling the plug, but should I? I want to note first...this'll be my first new machine (my very first complete build too) in 6 years. I build 'em top of the line and try to get a long life out of them. So I'm not using budget parts here and I understand it's expensive. I'm mostly looking for future-upgradability and as much future-proofing as I can.

Also please note I am planning to use stock air cooling over. I do not overclock (aside from buying pre-OC parts such as video cards). I'm looking for something that runs cool and stable at stock. I want both stability and performance, but emphasis on stability.

I've been waiting and waiting and waiting and am finally at the realization that I can wait forever with something new around the corner or I can just do it. And where it's at right now seems pretty good...or as good as it gets at least.

This rig will be used for work, games, lot of multitasking online, lil multimedia...etc.

Here are the specs I'm thinking about. Criticism/alternatives definitely appreciated, especially about incompatibilities, etc.

Intel Core 2 Extreme Quad QX9650 3.00 GHz 1333 12 MB Cache CPU
- I'm so tempted to wait for the 1600 FSB QX9750, but as I understand it, that's next year, and this looks like a kicker of a processor. Comes with a new stock cooler that looks like it should be decent too.

Gigabyte GA-X38T-DQ6 Motherboard
- Ditto - part of me wants to wait for X48, BUT, since nobody really knows when that is and this supports 1600 FSB, won't that mean it will have full support for 1600 FSB Penryn's later? So essentially, this should be about as good as X48 for my purposes? This thing looks like a serious mobo that supports just about anything, present and future. Any bugs/serious issues/flaws I should be aware of? I know BIOS updates are frequent already - any hardware problems that a BIOS won't be able to fix?

Corsair 4GB (2 x 2GB) XMS3 DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) w/ XMP
- A bit confused about this, but this looks to be my best bet as far as memory right now. FSB 1600 support, Intel XMP technology, heat spreader, and 2GB per chip so I'll leave slots free in the future if I wish to upgrade. Any better fit for me out there? Anyt compatibility issues?

2X Western Digital Raptor X 150 GB SATA 10,000 RPM HDD OEM in RAID 0
- Yes, I know RAID 0 is risky, but this will give me a 300 GB drive, and with frequent sheduled backups, should give me about the best performance I can find on one of this machine's biggest limiting factors.

Western Digital My Book Studio 320GB External HDD
- For said backups. Plan to schedule them automatically for all my important stuff.

Mitsumi Black Floppy/Media Reader
- Might as well. I work with PC's and fixing 'em on the side so might still have to read floppy disks once in a blue moon (even though I can't recall the last time that happened). A built in memory card reader would be nice too.

ASUS Black SATA 20X DVD+/-R DVD Burner
- May as well go SATA, and this supports Lightscribe as well. Plus trust ASUS.

ASUS Black SATA DVD-ROM E616A3T OEM
- Ditto on the SATA as secondary read-only drive.

eVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra Superclocked
- This one is an especially hard choice given the new GT, and I want to wait for the refresh of the GTX/Ultra, but there's no indication of how long that'll be. The GT is just not top of the line (how I wish for a new G92-based killer). At least with eVGA, should a new G92-based monster happen within the next three months, I should be able to step-up. GTS rumors are great, but they're just rumors so far. Also, I was originally going to go SLI. The 680i boards pretty much rule that out (with the stability problems I've read about, simply not comfortable for a long-term machine based on this platform). And frankly I'm getting sick of seeing news stories about 4X (and more) SLI/Xfire. I think I'm firmly in the "Let's stick with one video card and upgrade more frequently" camp at the moment. Even if I wasn't, just not sure X-Fire makes sense right now, plus I don't like the power requirements/heat output of a multi-card solution. So I'm thinking this is my best option.

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro
- I see they have a PCI-e version now with optical, but I think this PCI version probably fits me better because of the X-RAM and performance whistles. I know Vista has had some compatibility with the X-Fi in the past, but I'm hoping that's getting better now.

Logitech Z-5500 5.1 Speakers
- Seems like a quite good first 5.1 PC system for me. Though figuring out how exactly I'm gonna do 5.1 in my room is going to be a pip, but I think it can be done. =oP

SilverStone TJ09-SW Case
- I keep trying to convince myself to go with a smaller TARDIS-like case that's roomly enough (perhaps a Lian-Li), but people keep convincing me this is one of the ultimate cases out there. So, it may be big, but it looks beauuuutiful. And I think it should keep everything cool. I just may have to put it beside my desk instead of under it... Hah.

3X SilverStone FN121 Fan
- Additional fans for the extra slots my case offers. I may not be overclocking, but I'm a big fan of ample cooling. This should give the case alone five fans plus all the component fans, so I think I should be running nice and cool.

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Crossfire
- Alright, I'll be perfectly blunt. I like the red, and it's one of the best reviewed PSU's to boot. (Actually, I adored the copper, but I'm not seeing that around anymore). I should think 750 watts will be plenty for this system and hopefully future processor, RAM, and single video card upgrades. I'd probably want more if I went SLI (not an option) or CrossFire, but I don't really anticipate doing that. Also, this PSU seems to have a really good reputation. The only thing I don't like about it is that it's not modular, which might mean messier cables. For that reason, I'd consider the Silverstone Modular 750W offering, but I'm thinking the PC&P really is the way to go, and supposedly non-modular's are more solid anyhow (if you believe PCP&P's claims).

APC Back-UPS RS BR1500 LCD
- Love the LCD on this, and I think it should have sufficient power for my needs, hopefully with upgrades in the future as well.

BenQ FP241WZ 24" Monitor
- I wanna go 24" and this really looks like my best option. I was going to go with the Dell WFP2407-HC, but it has bad ghosting issues apparently that haven't been fixed, and I do want to game, so this looks like my best option. HP apparently has one too, but...neh...haven't had good experiences with HP in the past.

Saitek Eclipse II Keyboard
- Looks like my best bet. I want backlit and gaming but still compact. Considered the G15, and it looks very nice, but I think it would just take up too much space. I have one of those desks with a pullout drawer and want to keep the keyboard and mouse on that (29" wide). The new G15 is more compact, but unfortunately it seems impossible to get accurate dimensions on this compared to the Saitek Eclipse II, and I would think from the pics the G15 would STILL have to be larger.

Microsoft Habu Laser Mouse
- I want a mouse that's simple enough (some of these new gaming look too complex), wired, preferably backlit, and comfy. I've always used Microsoft mice, and I like the looks of the Habu, so I'm thinking it may be perfect for me. Other suggestions welcome. Probably Ratpadz XT mousepad to go with it.

Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 64-Bit OEM
- May as well go 64-bit, especially with the extra RAM. I know XP is still popular, but the fact is, Vista is maturing, I want to be able to run DX10, and it just seems like this is the only logical choice. I'd love to wait for SP1, but that's going to be a bit yet, and at least a lot of the initial problems are starting to get resolved.

Thanks again all for any/all advice/recommendations!
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Thats a nice rig, try and op for dual 8800GTX's and some G.Skill ram instead.
 
OpTioN said:
Thats a nice rig, try and op for dual 8800GTX's and some G.Skill ram instead.
Click to expand...

Thanks! As I mentioned in my update, gonna wait just a bit longer. Dual GTX's (SLI) isn't possible on any X38/X48 (or P35), BUT, there's a possibility by early January (nobody knows for sure) there will be something new, and possibly an X2 card (SLI on a single card from my understanding) - that's a distinct possibility if so. Too early to tell, and as I said previously, I've ruled 680i out (and 780i most likely).

Haven't researched G.Skill much, but I'll take a look. Heard some good things.

Appreciate the reply.
 
I'm going to build a new system soon as well, and going through your list I see we made similar choices. Still, there are some differences. I am going for DDR2 instead of DDR3, since the performance benefit of DDR3 is just extremely small. The FSB bandwidth of the new Penryn with 1600MHz FSB is 12800MB/s. To fill that bandwith completely, and to synchronize your FSB with your memory, you only need PC2-6400 memory in dual-channel. Anything faster is just overkill and the performance benefit will be negliable.

And about the Core 2 Extreme, I have to agree with some of the earlier advice. It's a very poor choice in my opinion. Not from a performance perspective of course, it's the very best, but from a cost perspective. It's better to take a cheap CPU now, and upgrade later on. Buy a Core 2 Duo now and upgrade to a Core 2 Quad with 1600MHz FSB later. Why only a Core 2 Duo for now? I personally think that having a Quad is just not worth it at the moment, since so many games and applications lack multiple core optimization.

Finally, I would like to say that it's best to skip the retail Intel cooler. It's not bad at all at cooling, but it's not exactly silent and many aftermarket coolers are better. The Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme is a great choice, and many will agree with me if I say that it's currently the best heatsink available.
 
and am also glad this thread helped someone else
Click to expand...
it did :D

A non OC'd computer built for half the cost today and upgraded a year from now will significantly outperform your computer a year from now, and will still cost much less, even with the upgrade.
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that 100% right, whats really killing me is that he want's to pick a QX and don't wan't to OC it! the only idea about the QX chips is OC since they have that unlocked multi

as far as I know (btw...i'm a n00b) all of the non QX chips don't require water cooling AND don't require DDR3, let me talk about 45nm here:
the best quad Yorkfield is Q9550, and since it's a yorkfield the FSB will not go higher than 450, lets say 500, so 500x8.5 = 4250
DDR2@1066 means that it can handle 533FSB so DDR2 is enough
a good air cooler can handle it at that speed

SEE THIS example a Q9550 with air cooling & DDR2
the CPU FSB limited his RAM & board at something like 440Mhz

what DDR3@1600 will give to his rig? well...I don't know but i'll say nothing :rolleyes: the CPU and the memory will speak :D to each other at 440Mhz speed though the RAM can speek faster

and the same will apply to the best Wolfade which is E8500 though DDR3@1333 maybe better for a hard OCer

btw, that $500 Q9550 with DDR2 is faster than your stock $1000 QX with DDR3 at the moment
 
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