PayPal's new refund policy has sellers up in arms

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by DooKey, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. DooKey

    DooKey [H]ardness Supreme

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    PayPal has changed their terms for sellers and now say they won't refund seller's fees when a buyer asks for a refund. This is supposed to begin on May 7.

    Seems to me this is just one more reason not to use PayPal.

    Alongside the refund changes, PayPal are also altering how they handle international payments and currency conversions. Transferring money to another country will no longer have a flat fee, instead PayPal are introducing a variable fee of 5%, with a minimum and maximum cost of $0.99 and $4.99, respectively.

    PayPal has said that anyone who disagrees with any of their new terms is free to close their account.
     
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  2. NickJames

    NickJames [H]ardness Supreme

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    Stopped using paypal years ago for anything outside of shady website purchases.
     
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  3. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    As far as I'm concerned every website is shady. They're not getting my card info, leaving paypal as the only option to pay.
     
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  4. bigddybn

    bigddybn [H]ardness Supreme

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    PayPal has been out to screw seller's for years. Anyone that's just now getting this is probably beyond "lost cause."
     
  5. DustySilicon

    DustySilicon n00b

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    That sounds familiar.
     
  6. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

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    The positive side of this is that it should help to further curtail shady (and outright) dishonest and fraudulent sellers.
     
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  7. RanceJustice

    RanceJustice [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's absurd. PayPal deserves much of its criticism in recent years, but this is certainly another MAJOR step down the road. Sadly, PayPal is one of the few widely accepted services that "seem" legitimate and A) allow users to buy/sell/donate using their credit card, debit, or bank account all without exposing said account to others while B) doing it quickly and conveniently, for all sorts of transactions including subscription ones and C) Not requiring "pre-funding", lines of credit, or 3rd party setups AND having some sort of process for chargebacks/disputes/refunds

    While they were certainly the only game in town years ago things have changed quite a bit, but there still isn't really a great replacement that ticks all the boxes for most people. For instance, some individual banks now have a "virtual credit card generator that links to your real CC or bank account", which can be useful in some regards for purchases - but it isn't universal and can be an issue for certain purchases. There is now a site that does the very same thing who';s name I forget, but it depends on fees from accepting said virtual cards in order to work. There are various programs that have to do with person-to-person money transfer (ie Google Wallet/Pay, zelle, dwolla, venmo etc) but they all have their potential issues. Of course, cryptocurrency can be a great solution, but it too has its shortcomings (notably, lack of chargeback/enforcement on refunds without trusting some middleman PayPal style) though it can get around the kinds of fees seen elsewhere if used smartly.

    PayPal has a long history and ubiquitous access in its corner, but it needs to have serious competitors from other services to keep this kind of horrible practice from continuing. Ideally, there should be a universal open standard that all banks or financial services can handle for electronic, near instant transfer with minimal fees (that would be absorbed mostly by the banks themselves), but without such a thing we'll need to keep looking at multiple solutions.
     
  8. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    Looks like I am charging the buyer a restock fee now for refunds and stating that in my description on why that is.
     
  9. another-user

    another-user Gawd

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    this is gonna get expensive for me.... i have a business on ebay, and i cancel $1500+ transactions on a regular basis. people buy the wrong (expensive) items all the time, or want items rush shipped for free so i have to cancel orders on a regular basis.

    but on the other hand... whats my option? i can fuck around with ebays managed payments, or close up my shop.
     
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  10. NIZMOZ

    NIZMOZ [H]ard|Gawd

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    Seems PayPal is still the only one Ebay takes and that has any type of protection for the buyer/seller still. I have looked at others like Venmo, and there is no protection. I would love to get away from Paypal, but until someone comes out with a similar service, we are kind of stuck with them. I know they don't protect sellers very well, but in my experience of selling stuff on Ebay and two shady people bought from me, they protected me as the seller as I had all my ducks in a row.
     
  11. MyNameIsAlex

    MyNameIsAlex Limp Gawd

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    WOW this is terrible!
     
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  12. Mav451

    Mav451 [H]ardness Supreme

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    NIZMOZ Yeah I did quite a bit of shopping last year b/c of those eBay coupons; that's slowed down though.
    For the most part, I haven't been swindled, but some sellers tried to claim I didn't send my stuff back (lol); so I appreciate that as a buyer.

    I've never once considered selling on eBay though.
     
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  13. Smashing Young Man

    Smashing Young Man [H]ard|Gawd

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    When you deal in virtual goods, Paypal is much friendlier to the seller. I've used them for 14 years now with thousands of transactions totalling over six figures and I never had a single problem. Literally, not one complaint.

    I do imagine it's is quite a bit different if you are an eBayer dealing in physical merchandise. I can only speak to my personal experience. The transactions are different and the policies are different where virtual goods are concerned.
     
  14. clockdogg

    clockdogg Gawd

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    Paypal makes money when the product goes out. Now make money when it comes back. Clever.

    I buy many, too many things and sell too few things on eBay and have never had an issue with Paypal or Buyers/Sellers. On the internet there's not many things that can't be solved with some frenzied hand-waving and gesticulating behind the screen.
     
  15. oblox

    oblox Gawd

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    Horrible policy, this will have downstream effects on buyers... things are now going to get pricier.
     
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  16. Skillz

    Skillz [H]ard DCOTY 2017

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    Stripe
     
  17. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah. Seems very dumb and I wish a real competitor would step up, but it would take so long for all the small stores to start accepting it.
     
  18. Lateralus

    Lateralus More [H]uman than Human

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    This is awesome news. So now in those cases where a crappy buyer files a dispute and forces a refund, you get to pay for the privilege of refunding them.
     
  19. xSneak

    xSneak Limp Gawd

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    Wow. I never allow returns on my ebay sales so I hope this doesn't apply. :eek:
     
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  20. Mode13

    Mode13 Limp Gawd

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    What about when you get the friendly buyer who claims his item was broken? This will hit me guaranteed.

    I'm at the point now where I'm only really willing to post "as-is" junk on ebay. Everything else is getting too costly to bother.

    Not to mention most of the things I sell can somehow be purchased from China with free shipping for LESS than it costs me to ship the same Item to my brother who lives 2 miles away. (used old CPUs).. go figure.
     
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  21. HAL_404

    HAL_404 Limp Gawd

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    Venmo is Paypal
     
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  22. Hashiriya415

    Hashiriya415 [H]Lite

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    Bastards. So they been operating for how many years now? And now all of sudden they have to do this to people? I don't understand why.
    Is zelle a good alternative?
     
  23. filip

    filip [H]ard|Gawd

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    I was going to delete my paypal, but I need ti to buy things on ebay and for when I don't want to give out card info. Guess I just won't sell shit through paypal anymore.
     
  24. Skillz

    Skillz [H]ard DCOTY 2017

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    I haven't used paypal to pay for ebay stuff in a while. I just use my credit card directly on ebay.
     
  25. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think it's a good idea since there's so many sellers that screw people. It would act as a deterrent to stop sellers from being dicks. I just bought something off Ebay and the seller has vanished, so of course I worry that the guy took the money and ran. This has happened before and I have to ask for a refund. This seller did respond and said he shipped it but the tracking number shows nothing.
     
  26. aokman

    aokman Gawd

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    Doesn’t matter, I had no returns on one of my listings. Paypal refunded the buyer for change of mind anyway and gave me no say in it.

    I have removed paypal completely now, buyers can live with it or go elsewhere, I wont be pressured into using them anymore.
     
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  27. Arcygenical

    Arcygenical Will Watercool for Crack

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    The last nail in paypal's coffin for me was when they sent me into collections this year.

    In error.

    I didn't sell anything, and I received no previous notices.

    I paid the 44$, which was eventually credited to my account.
     
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  28. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    PayPal can eat a dick. Anytime I sell anything on the forums from this point forward will be via Google.
     
  29. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Many years ago, the wife & I used to sell a lot of stuff on eBay. Some weeks we shipped out 20-30 boxes. (Both new and used stuff)

    But the costs kept growing. Both eBay and PayPal kept increasing the costs, along with higher shipping costs.
    We started selling less because it just wasn't worth the effort for many of the low cost items.
    Instead we ended up just donating much of the stuff to charity & taking the write off.

    Now, with the higher standard deduction (taxes), I don't have enough write-offs to deduct the charitable contributions.

    Looks like most of it will now end up in the trash.
     
  30. xSneak

    xSneak Limp Gawd

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    Ouch. What do you use instead? I don't really know of anything else.

    Even if they pay you on friends and family they can claim their account was hacked to get their money back.
     
  31. cthulhuiscool

    cthulhuiscool 2[H]4U

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    Attention please!
    *AHEM Ting Ting Ting*
    Fuck paypal and fuck ebay
    c6b.png
     
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  32. greenman

    greenman Gawd

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    I knew there was a positive outlook on the matter!
     
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  33. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    When I sell something here on [H], I always use paypal only. Always better to cover my butt then get screwed, not that I have had that happen, yet.
     
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  34. aokman

    aokman Gawd

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    Direct deposit, cash on pickup or I can offer CC payment through my merchant account :)

    Yes Paypal would be a lot more convenient for everyone but I am sick of being treated like a scammer when I did everything I could to make a buyer happy. Apparently even setting out your terms in advance mean nothing any more. I was tempted to take legal action against Paypal over it as I am sure its illegal.

    Alternatively sell it elsewhere like Facebook marketplace, I find it much better since there are no fees anyway.

    On top of all that, the double dipping eBay and Paypal do for fees utterly BS.
     
  35. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    i only sell stuff locally but i hate that paypal thinks that you should forfeit your costs to them.

    fuck em.

    they are quite secure for buyers though.
     
  36. zamardii12

    zamardii12 2[H]4U

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    Can you even sell on eBay without a PayPal account? I know you can buy stuff without a PayPal account, but idk if you can sell without one.
     
  37. aokman

    aokman Gawd

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    Yes you can, it would be illegal to do otherwise as its an anti-competitive practice
     
  38. vegeta535

    vegeta535 2[H]4U

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    IDK how eBay stays in business. As a seller it sucks. With all the fees you have yo pay to eBay and PayPal it makes it not worth it. Mostly as a seller you have little recourse if the buy fucks you.
     
  39. Sulphademus

    Sulphademus Limp Gawd

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    My main use for Paypal is buying computer goods from other forum members here.
     
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  40. Bowman15

    Bowman15 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Since I only buy or send money through paypal/venmo I have no issue with this at all. Of course I've never tried to scam a seller either. Just give me what I paid for and we're golden....
     
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