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Paying $50 dollars for simple program!

MightyDiomed said:
Why is that so interesting? :-P
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Just didn't think someone would pick C++ as their language of choice for such a simple/quick application :) I couldn't see myself using it to accomplish this kind of application, but then again.. I don't primarily code in C++. This guy probably does.
 
MightyDiomed said:
Here it is folks!

http://drop.io/calllogger88

Read the documentation in the DOC folder!

My 50 dollar program that is probably the best 50 dollars I have EVER spent.

The code who made it for me on rentacoder.com was the nicest and easiest to work with person in the world. He gave me constant updates on the progress of the application and had excellent communication skills.

From my perspective, he did a fantastic job!
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Thanks for posting the results - I'm surprised he chose C++ :) Great reality check for the [H] community, too!
 
Jonz said:
$50 per hour would seem to be a much more appropriate rate
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Yeah that would be about my rate too, but $50 means different things to different people, that's how the market goes. A few years ago I probably would have done the job for $50 as well.
 
86 5.0L said:
damnit, I could've used the $50, and done it in a few hours, in C++, Java, or VB

some of you guys are ridiculous, 500 pounds LOL!
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Lol.

You and osalcido have stumbled upon the the crazy world of business software pricing. Where time and effort have little to do with price, but it's the amount saved that determines the cost. ROI is king!

And there's another difference, while some would simply jump at the chance to earn some quick money. I would have recommended that dumping the data to files isn't the best option. While it's one thing to capture data, it's what you do with it after that counts - Going with a database is a much better option. Going though things like this and providing aftercare (today I worked on a client's site to solve some printing issues with my software that I was unable to replicate, turns out to be a dodgy usb cable, then they said not all the pages (of invoices) had printed - it was out of paper). With all this It is very easy for a project to take longer than it should, you learn quickly that you have to cover yourself.

PS I still think £50 per seat is chump change for bespoke software, luckily I have clients who are willing to pay allot more:D
 
No wonder I can't make my mortgage payment when people are paying 50 bucks for an entire application, I'll agree, you got a smoking good deal.
signature_distory.jpg


*chinese child programmers at your service*

Slave labor is right ;-)
 
Looking over the source code, I think that was definitely worth more than $50... If that is what Microsoft paid for developers, Windows would end up costing around $3.
 
I just saw this topic today. seems like it is already done. ya it doesnt look like asking for anything hard.
 
REDYOUCH said:
Looking over the source code, I think that was definitely worth more than $50... If that is what Microsoft paid for developers, Windows would end up costing around $3.
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Therein lies the difference.... You Do NOT need a professional developer for applications like this anymore. You DO still need them to develop operating systems.

The new age belongs to the hobbyist coder.
 
osalcido said:
Therein lies the difference.... You Do NOT need a professional developer for applications like this anymore. You DO still need them to develop operating systems.

The new age belongs to the hobbyist coder.
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I suppose if you don't care at all about code quality, maintainability, maintenance costs, edge cases, test procedures, regression bugs, accessibility issues, reliability......should I go on?
 
Eh, since having the program created and having it approved by management and being deployed to my agents...it is working wonderfully, a few minor changes will be made in the future as well as some additional features.

That being said, its simple and it does its job very well. I can now have 100% control over what steps the agents take for each specific call via the pre-loaded templates, and if they fail to check off a step that they should have done and escalate that shit to me, I'll know about! ^_^

Here is a quick sample of how it looks when done!

Customer Name: Mighty Diomed

CBN: 4806024499

Email address: diomed@hardforum.com

Issue: Red X

IMEI: 354448022341564

Action
--------
-Does the cu have a red X? - Y

-Powercycled? - Y

-Is SIM active? - Y

-Does the cu have good coverage? - Y

-Does SIM exist? - Y

-Do Last 4 of SIM ICCID match CRM? - N



Resolution: Escalated to CRM to swap ICCID
 
I think there's a bit of a gap between this program and an OS where professional devs are still needed. :p

Having just finished my first year as a CS major (no prior coding experience) I prolly coulda taken a swing at this if I had worked a bit more on learning my way around this summer. Granted that guys source is better than what I'd be able to come up with but the point is the project really didn't require all that much.
 
osalcido said:
Congrats!

Surprised to see how greedy people can be... 500 pounds for this? And yet people wonder why jobs are being outsourced to India... heh.:cool:

Before anyone replies with "Well, you should do it" , I am a hobbyist coder and could've easily created this application within an hour
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Agreed. The people saying $65 an hour, or 500 pounds minimum are probably unemployed.

This is a pretty simple application. I could probably create a similar program with C# in about an hour or two myself, and I'm a hobbyist too.
 
Arainach said:
I suppose if you don't care at all about code quality, maintainability, maintenance costs, edge cases, test procedures, regression bugs, accessibility issues, reliability......should I go on?
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You're deluded if you think this particular job required anything more than a throwaway application.
 
AbJ32 said:
Agreed. The people saying $65 an hour, or 500 pounds minimum are probably unemployed.
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No, they probably work for customers who will pay that (or well over that). I know guys making $100,000+ on 9 or 10 months of consulting work per year because they're good at what they do, and market it well.
 
AbJ32 said:
Agreed. The people saying $65 an hour, or 500 pounds minimum are probably unemployed.

This is a pretty simple application. I could probably create a similar program with C# in about an hour or two myself, and I'm a hobbyist too.
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I generally charge over $80/h to do client work, so no, thats a pretty standard rate and I've never heard a single complaint. It all depends on your quality of work, your expertise in your field and and your client base.
 
AbJ32 said:
Agreed. The people saying $65 an hour, or 500 pounds minimum are probably unemployed.

This is a pretty simple application. I could probably create a similar program with C# in about an hour or two myself, and I'm a hobbyist too.
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You must have missed my earlier post where I explained that I spend enough time programming at work, and in order to give up my personal time to do something like this, I'd charge a minimum $40/hour, because otherwise I don't consider it worth my time. I get more enjoyment out of pursuing thing I can't do during the work day than making more money that I don't need.

I would say what is more likely is that someone who would do this for 50 dollars flat is unemployed in the software field.
 
Glad you got what you wanted for so cheap. I wouldnt do it from scratch for $50, but if I had some source laying around that did just about the same thing I might if I was out of work. I could probably have it done and up to my standards in a day, but if you convert the pay to an hourly rate I would be better off playing solitaire as a receptionist someplace.
 
Don't forget that if you're in the U.S. and you choose to program that app for $50 and you're self-employed... you have to pay taxes and you probably end up with only $30 or even less. Hmmm.... not my cup of tea. I wouldn't touch that for $50 or even $150.

Me = self-employed (not unemployed) and doing well enough to reject projects like that.

And for the OP to say it could be done within an hour - DO IT YOURSELF :p
 
nameless_centurian said:
You must have missed my earlier post where I explained that I spend enough time programming at work, and in order to give up my personal time to do something like this, I'd charge a minimum $40/hour, because otherwise I don't consider it worth my time. I get more enjoyment out of pursuing thing I can't do during the work day than making more money that I don't need.

I would say what is more likely is that someone who would do this for 50 dollars flat is unemployed in the software field.
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my opinion is exactly that i would probably take roughly 4hrs to write that + a couple making tweaks at the end to match requirements and a couple just to thicken out the requirements at the start. total about 8 hours @~$30/hr your talking minimum $240

anyway fair play for getting it done i hope you get a nice bonus for taking the initiative and funding this from your own pocket
 
I do not think the original poster was asking experienced developers to write a simple app. Clearly a college student can do it... or someone in Maryland or India. If you charge 80+ per hour this job wasn't for you ^^

The people charging 80+ per hour are justified in doing so provided the market allows them to. Some people are that good, or lucky. Either way it isn't our place to say they overcharge if someone is willing to pay.

You really have to put 50$ in perspective. Where I live, you can tutor high school students for 80$ an hour. That program would take most experienced programmers several hours, especially considering there were revisions made to meet the buyers expectations.

Edit:
Congrats on the original poster for getting it done within his budget.
 
inotocracy said:
I generally charge over $80/h to do client work, so no, thats a pretty standard rate and I've never heard a single complaint. It all depends on your quality of work, your expertise in your field and and your client base.
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And your professional expertise is not necessary for such a simple program. If he wanted something more complicated and more functional, a higher rate for a better program developed by a more experienced coder would be worth it.

In a more demanding situation, sure, charge what you want. However, in this situation, charging $65 an hour, $80 an hour, whatever you want to charge is not really appropriate.

When I said people saying they'd only do it for those high prices are unemployed, I didn't mean people who charge that for their professional work. I meant people who would charge that much for something like this. This is on par with a professional landscaper saying they won't mow their neighbor's lawn for anything under $45 an hour, because that's what they charge when landscaping.
 
Keytext was a prograsm our company used for a program to select and paste pre-made responses in.
 
Glad you got it done, I did look at this thread when it started and I figured someone would end up doing it eventually. People saying they would make it for more $ just means they believe their time to be more valuable, nothing wrong with that.

Where I work we charge customers $110/hour for most coding. We also charge $135/hour for house calls.
 
Easius said:
People saying they would make it for more $ just means they believe their time to be more valuable, nothing wrong with that.
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Except for it being the reason jobs are shipped overseas... Yeah sure nothing wrong with it
 
Easius said:
Glad you got it done, I did look at this thread when it started and I figured someone would end up doing it eventually. People saying they would make it for more $ just means they believe their time to be more valuable, nothing wrong with that.

Where I work we charge customers $110/hour for most coding. We also charge $135/hour for house calls.
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$110/hour? I think that's way overpaid, regardless of the coding job.
 
Cyrilix said:
$110/hour? I think that's way overpaid, regardless of the coding job.
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That's on the low side of consulting fees. In the places where I've worked, the more experienced people pulled in over $200 an hour. Of course, they didn't get paid anywhere near that, which kinda makes you think.
 
Cyrilix said:
$110/hour? I think that's way overpaid, regardless of the coding job.
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keep in mind there is a BIG difference between a consultant and a contractor. Contractor rates of $110/hr is pricey, but a consultant at $110/hr is cheap.
 
maxedoutcc said:
keep in mind there is a BIG difference between a consultant and a contractor. Contractor rates of $110/hr is pricey, but a consultant at $110/hr is cheap.
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Ah, I see. I don't really know the difference to be honest. I assume a contractor is a freelance coder, whereas a consultant is... someone who wants to talk to you about the direction you're heading in? Managerial/business position I guess?
 
wow nearly 3.500 views

You're deluded if you think this particular job required anything more than a throwaway application.
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Ten people using this all day to carry out their jobs, is a throwaway app? Then please, call me deluded! We are talking about allot of money here (10 salaried employees, overtime, heating/ electric, rent, taxes, etc). This all mounts up, so even small improvements in efficiency can save $10,000's per year.


This is a pretty simple application. I could probably create a similar program with C# in about an hour or two myself, and I'm a hobbyist too.
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I think just focussing OP's outline, rather than asking any questions. Seems to be what separates the hobbyists and the professionals (by that I mean those who get paid for this, I've been a hobbyist for years and I still do some code for fun) . The point I'm getting at is that, you need to ask questions (this is something that our cousins in India haven't twigged either), you wouldn't just add black test to a black button, you would ask if they are sure about this. One major question with the OP's spec, is what happens with the data afterwards? For example if there are 10 people (working at of snails pace), closing 2 calls per hour - that's generating nearly 1000 files per week. What happens to these after? How are you going to retrieve any data? Note to mention some of the info that can be gathered from them, for instance: who is slacking, who needs more training and which areas, who can't close a call to save their live. Did this ever enter your minds? Instead of thats easy, can do that in no time.

AbJ32 said:
Agreed. The people saying $65 an hour, or 500 pounds minimum are probably unemployed.
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The reason I said that amount is because I do this for a living. Look at is this way, so you reckon you could do this in a few hours? Ok, Pick a figure of how much you would like earn per year (trust me keep it low), now divide that by how much you think you can do this project for, finally divide this by the number of working days per year (don't forget holidays). Reckon you this number all day, every day? Plus there is finding more business (yep, it doesn't just fall in your lap),the initial flirting with prospective clients, travel, getting messed around etc (this all needs to be factored in).
 
Back in the day I wrote a program that would use WMI to remotely get information like asset numbers, serial numbers, logged on users, installed programs, and more, and it had a button where you could just click copy and it would copy appropriate fields to the Remedy ticket currently active in window, using the Remedy .net API. Instead of just pasting a glob into a text area control, it mapped specific fields in the .net program to specific fields in the Remedy ticket, saving a lot of time. I think it saved a lot of time for the help desk users. There were others writing such programs and would do simple tasks and fix common problems. I also wrote a very basic CLI for Remedy. Really basic, just input a ticket number and your creds and it'd print out the basics of the tickets, for those CLI lovers. Problem with that one was SSO. Remedy was never setup for SSO and it would've been nice had it accepted a kerberos token. Fun stuff :)

Oh yeah, also extended the WMI Code Creator from MS so it would work against a list of hostnames and collect results in a data table and output as XML or Excel for analysis. You could save queries, close the program and load previously saved queries so you don't have to find the data you found 3 months ago.

I still feel like a novice programmer though.

Now where I work we use a different ticketing system and I really miss remedy. Oh well, don't really spend much time in it anyway so unless I'm a Remedy dev doesn't really matter.
 
$50 is incredibly cheap for this program. Great job to the Original poster in being frugal.

But as far as typical costs for this type of project, let's get some perspective. For example, bring your car into the shop, they will typically charge around $70 /hr. The BestBuy Geek Squad would charge around the same. That's just the cost of doing business in the USA, Canada, Australia, or Western Europe. I imagine this job is at least a few hours work ~ $200 for everything (client contact, determining approach, getting paid, minor bug fixes) not just coding, which needs to be considered.

Wiseguy makes a good point:
The reason I said that amount is because I do this for a living. Look at is this way, so you reckon you could do this in a few hours? Ok, Pick a figure of how much you would like earn per year (trust me keep it low), now divide that by how much you think you can do this project for, finally divide this by the number of working days per year (don't forget holidays). Reckon you this number all day, every day? Plus there is finding more business (yep, it doesn't just fall in your lap),the initial flirting with prospective clients, travel, getting messed around etc (this all needs to be factored in).
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Now it is great for someone who is starting out programming (students, job changers,...) or a person from Asia or Eastern Europe where the economics of the area are much. different. Just my point of view from someone who actually has a job where part of it is actually programming.
 
rgratto2 said:
You've been Pranked! Looking over the code:
INITCOMMONCONTROLSEX
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Um, actually that'd be a fairly common naming convention.

InitCommonControlsEx() is probably a method name. I didn't look at the code but I bet that's what it could be if it wasn't typed in all capital letters. It's either that or an exception handler for InitCommonControls exceptions.
 
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