Partitioning of SSD

[Highcountryrider]

First build using an SSD instead of a mechanical HDD. Drive is a Samsung 830 256GB SSD as the OS and programs drive. Is there any benefit to partition the drive for each of the above and if so how large should the OS partition be? OS will be Win 7 HP 64-bit. I'll have a WD Caviar Black 500GB 7200 RPM 64MB cache HDD for all data, media and other programs.

I plan on installing programs like Photoshop, Pinnacle Studio (video editing), MS Office 2010, iTunes and Google Earth on the SSD drive as they all seem to be slow loading programs on my current Win XP Q6600 Quad Core system. Not too concerned with filling up the SSD as my entire system now only uses 98GB of a 320GB HDD.

Am I approaching this transition in the correct way?

TIA for responses.

 

[XacTactX]

I think you're doing things right. Since your stuff only takes up 98 GB and you are going to use a 500GB hard drive for nonessential stuff I think you could get away with a 128 GB drive instead of 256 GB but solid choice overall.

Also I don't think there is any benefit to partitioning the SSD in any particular way. An SSD can access any piece of information at the same speed regardless of where it is stored so you can't short-stroke it and it can't become fragmented.

 

[Aesma]

Don't partition the SSD. Don't plug the HDD until after windows is installed.

 

[Highcountryrider]

Don't partition the SSD. Don't plug the HDD until after windows is installed.

Thanks for the reply. Just curious, why do you say not to partition the SSD? Does partitioning affect SSD performance?
Also, I was aware of not plugging in the HDD until after Windows installation but any other suggestions?

My process was to be:
Set AHCI in BIOS.
Use Win 7 installation disc to create the volume/primary partition on the SSD.
Install Windows 7
Install MB drivers (downloaded from vendor's website).
Turn off system, plug secondary HDD in, start system and create partitions on HDD.

Does the sequence appear correct?

 

[Aesma]

No partitioning doesn't affect performance. But partitions are unnecessary, especially on a small drive.

Your process is fine, and will in fact make one partition less than usual, since windows 7 will not make its 100MB partition if you already created the install partition.

 

[Highcountryrider]

No partitioning doesn't affect performance. But partitions are unnecessary, especially on a small drive.

Your process is fine, and will in fact make one partition less than usual, since windows 7 will not make its 100MB partition if you already created the install partition.

OK, I'm a little confused. As I understand it if I'm installing to a brand new, un-formatted SSD, the Win 7 installation disc will ask what drive to install into. The new SSD should be visible right? All I have to do is select it and go to Next and Win 7 install disc will do the necessary setup of the SSD and then begin the install process. Is this not correct? Or, should I use the installation disc to create a simple volume and then select that to install Win 7 into?

This can be so confusing. If you look at a dozen different tutorials it looks like there a several ways to do this. For instance here are instructions from the OCZ website tutorial on installing Windows 7:
Installation onto an unformatted drive:
1. Windows 7 will create a hidden 100MB system partition with boot/recovery files; windows like to install onto "raw" unformatted space.
2. Boot/recovery files are installed in the C:/ partition in a hidden folder .

Installation onto a Pre-formatted drive:
1. Windows ignores the previous steps.

As this is my first time installing Win 7 from the Win 7 disc onto a brand new out of the box SSD I sure would like to find a definitive tutorial on the proper way to do this. Which is the preferred way to do this: Onto a unformatted SSD or onto a pre-formatted SSD?

 

[manofthem]

When installing win7, it'll give you 2 choices: one that will automatically format the entire drive and install to it, or custom with the option for you to partition accordingly. When you create a partition to install the OS to, it will create a 100mb partition with some important system info.

It has been recommended to over-provision the drive, leaving some space unallocated by not creating a partition to the max availability. To play it safe, I partitioned my 256gb 830 to 200000mb, will created the 100mb partition and 195gb partition for everything else, leaving ~40gb unallocated.

But whatevs.

I just read the last part of your last post. Just put the ssd into the pc with only that installed, plus your dvdrom that has the win7 install disc. Windows 7 will do the formatting by itself, as you can't install without it being formatted.

 

[Highcountryrider]

When installing win7, it'll give you 2 choices: one that will automatically format the entire drive and install to it, or custom with the option for you to partition accordingly. When you create a partition to install the OS to, it will create a 100mb partition with some important system info.

It has been recommended to over-provision the drive, leaving some space unallocated by not creating a partition to the max availability. To play it safe, I partitioned my 256gb 830 to 200000mb, will created the 100mb partition and 195gb partition for everything else, leaving ~40gb unallocated.

But whatevs.

I just read the last part of your last post. Just put the ssd into the pc with only that installed, plus your dvdrom that has the win7 install disc. Windows 7 will do the formatting by itself, as you can't install without it being formatted.

Thanks for the reply. Is the 100 MB partition necessary? That is only created if I don't select the Custom option, correct?

As to over-provisioning, that's something else that is hard to get a definitive answer on. Supposedly the Samsung 830 SSD ships with a built in 7% over-provisioning section or area or whatever you want to call it. It also has a proprietary controller, not a SandForce controller. I've seen quite a few posts on various forums stating there is no need to create additional space (over-provisioning) for this function. Also, many different opinions on whether this is something that is applicable primarily to SandForce controller SSDs or enterprise use SSDs. I guess what I'm saying is why remove 25 + GB of usable drive space if it's not necessary for a normal user like myself.

 

[manofthem]

As you say, over-provisioning is somewhat built in; thus I added extra as a precaution, since I had the room to spare. After installing on the 830, there is the Samsung Magician software that has a utility for over provisioning, so you will have the option there also.

The 100mb partition is necessary and will be there regardless. As I mentioned earlier, when I created a 200000mb partition, it made the 100mb first and then made the rest. Ensuring no other drives are plugged in prevents any important system files from being written to other drives, which would make them necessary to boot. I once unknowingly installed windows having 2 hdds plugged in, and when I removed the secondary hdd, my system would not boot

It'll be great however you work it out. Don't worry about over-thinking it. Plug it in, install, and the enjoy the goodness of the terrific 830! I can honestly say thst while running my 830s, I've never had any issues that were because of the ssds themselves, which I cant say for my old Sandisk Extreme. Samsung makes excellent products IMO.

 

[Aesma]

No I don't have the 100MB partition, and it's unnecessary, the tools I have anyway, on the C partition.

If you don't want it make the partition manually and then install on it.

As for overprovisioning, I have formatted my 240GB Vertex 2 to 200 GiB, but that was 2 years ago and on a sandforce 1 controller that isn't the best at recovering performance from a used drive, today I wouldn't bother with it.

 

[Highcountryrider]

No I don't have the 100MB partition, and it's unnecessary, the tools I have anyway, on the C partition.

If you don't want it make the partition manually and then install on it.

As for overprovisioning, I have formatted my 240GB Vertex 2 to 200 GiB, but that was 2 years ago and on a sandforce 1 controller that isn't the best at recovering performance from a used drive, today I wouldn't bother with it.

OK, it sounds like I would choose the Format option at that point rather than the New option and then choose the full size and hit apply. That would format the SSD but not create the 100MB partition, correct?

If I chose New instead of Format, the above process would then create the 100MB system partition and I would install into the full size partition below it, correct?

Just curious as to why you don't think the 100MB is necessary. Are you saying the files and tools in that partition would be available on the C: partition? Sorry, but it is a bit hard to understand what you mean from the way you have written it.

Appreciate your help.

 

[manofthem]

http://social.technet.microsoft.com.../thread/29fa0858-8971-413b-ba8a-d033aa6dae55/

Windows 7 creates the 100mb small partition, where important system and boot files are placed. I should have mentioned that this isn't visible in My Computer or explorer; you can only see it in Disk Management (right click My Computer, go to Manage, then Disk Management).

When you open My Computer, you will see your normal C: as always, at whatever size you indicated.

I'm doing a quick install and took pics so you know what I'm talking about lol.

 

[manofthem]

You boot from cd and this is what you come to after a few clicks:

Click on custom, as you're not upgrading and this is what you come to, you'll need to click Drive Options

Notice you can't format (it's grayed out) as there is no partition yet:

So you click new on the previous pic and come to the pic below. You can create the full size, or you can input another size:

After you hit apply, you will see the following, your created partition that will be used for your C: drive, but listed first is the 100mb system reserved.

When you load into Windows, you will not the see the small partition in Explorer or My Computer, but you can see it in Disk Management:

I hope that helps.

 

[pelo]

The 100MB partition is going to be made by Win7 and you won't see it. That's the MBR or Master Boot Record. It keeps track of the OSes on your system as well as provides the critical portions of the bootup process and keeps track of the order.

You don't have to designate a separate partition for the 100MB, it should just do it for you. If it's going on the same disk then it's unnecessary to do so. Furthermore, if it ever gets damaged, like say by GRUB when setting up a dual boot Linux system, you can easily repair it with a Win7 disk.

 

[Highcountryrider]

@manofthem - Many thanks for the pictorial! Just what I thought it would be. Only thing I noticed is that you didn't mention clicking on Advanced Options in pic #2 which is what takes you to the screen you have shown in pic #3. Is that correct? From there on it is very clear.

I did know about the 100MB partition being hidden in Windows Explorer but visible in Disk Management.

Again, many thanks. I'm probably going to install from a bootable USB drive as I've heard the install is faster.

 

[manofthem]

@manofthem - Many thanks for the pictorial! Just what I thought it would be. Only thing I noticed is that you didn't mention clicking on Advanced Options in pic #2 which is what takes you to the screen you have shown in pic #3. Is that correct? From there on it is very clear.

I did know about the 100MB partition being hidden in Windows Explorer but visible in Disk Management.

Again, many thanks. I'm probably going to install from a bootable USB drive as I've heard the install is faster.

Oops, yes lol.*fixed it* sorry i omitted that unintentionally, good eye! USB is faster so if you have that, use that!

Let us know how it goes

 

[Aesma]

The 100MB partition contains the boot and the recovery console. If you don't allow that partition to be made, by creating your own 200/240GB from the start of the drive, the install will put those files directly on that partition, and it will work the same.

Since pictures seem to be needed, here is my SSD :

 

[Highcountryrider]

The 100MB partition contains the boot and the recovery console. If you don't allow that partition to be made, by creating your own 200/240GB from the start of the drive, the install will put those files directly on that partition, and it will work the same.

Since pictures seem to be needed, here is my SSD :

Thanks for the pic. This appears that you used the Format option rather than the New option when setting up the drive for the install, therefore there is no 100MB partition. Is that correct? Also looks like you have about 10% unallocated space to be used for over-provisioning?

Thanks to all the help here I think I should be able to do this properly.

 

[manofthem]

The 100MB partition contains the boot and the recovery console. If you don't allow that partition to be made, by creating your own 200/240GB from the start of the drive, the install will put those files directly on that partition, and it will work the same.

Since pictures seem to be needed, here is my SSD :

Good info, you're a god among insects

Did you partition the drive prior to beginning the windows installation process, or is there another work around?

Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage with it configured without the separate partition? I'm going to visit google

 

[Aesma]

I created the partition separately with the windows DVD, or maybe gparted, it was two years ago so I'm not sure. Both should do the trick. More recently I have made a 7/XP/linux drive (during a course to get my degree) and that partition would definitely have been a problem since I already needed 4 partitions and 4 is the MBR limit.

And yes I have overprovisioning and I explained why earlier.

 

[Kokain]

Just found this topic and actually it still doesn't make it clear if partitioning is good, bad etc. Also the fact that Windows 7 makes a 100mb partition on SSD is probably a good indication that it's probably fine. The reason I bumped this topic anyway is to ask if primary or logical partitions should be used for SSD. Up to 128GB it was ok to say you dont need partitions but at 256/512 I actually want to store data for quick access. And if Windows goes downhill and needs to be reinstalled, I want the data on D: to be untouched during the C: format. So am asking is primary partitions the way to go just like on HDD? Anything else I should know doing it this way?

 

[Chuklr]

Just found this topic and actually it still doesn't make it clear if partitioning is good, bad etc. Also the fact that Windows 7 makes a 100mb partition on SSD is probably a good indication that it's probably fine. The reason I bumped this topic anyway is to ask if primary or logical partitions should be used for SSD. Up to 128GB it was ok to say you dont need partitions but at 256/512 I actually want to store data for quick access. And if Windows goes downhill and needs to be reinstalled, I want the data on D: to be untouched during the C: format. So am asking is primary partitions the way to go just like on HDD? Anything else I should know doing it this way?

Hi, Kokain,

You can partition the SSD any way you choose, but it won't increase access times to your data as the access time is the same on a SSD no matter where the data resides.

I have my Win7 installed on a single partition 128GB SSD and my data on a HDD. I got the 128GB SSD because I wanted to have my OS and data separate, but didn't want to waste more space than that. I've recently purchased another 128GB SSD to replace the HDD when I have the time.

Hope this helps.

Chuklr

 

[wkearney99]

Just found this topic and actually it still doesn't make it clear if partitioning is good, bad etc. Also the fact that Windows 7 makes a 100mb partition on SSD is probably a good indication that it's probably fine. The reason I bumped this topic anyway is to ask if primary or logical partitions should be used for SSD. Up to 128GB it was ok to say you dont need partitions but at 256/512 I actually want to store data for quick access. And if Windows goes downhill and needs to be reinstalled, I want the data on D: to be untouched during the C: format. So am asking is primary partitions the way to go just like on HDD? Anything else I should know doing it this way?

Windows going downhill isn't the biggest risk to your data. You'd still be able to get to it even if you had operating system configuration screwups. You'd just be doing a re-install that didn't overwrite, or you'd access the drive from another OS (either booted from CD or pulling the drive for access from another machine). So partitioning it for this purpose isn't really buying you a whole lot. Speed isn't an issue with an SSD as there's no moving parts to affect where the read/write activity is taking place. And even on rotating media that's hardly been necessary for at least a decade. Once upon a time it WAS advantageous to structure frequently used data so that it resides on cylinders of the drive that minimized read/write head motion. But with the advent of modern drive performance and on-drive caching it's been a lot less useful. Sure, for bare metal database applications... MAYBE. But when you're in that rarified territory you're already looking to use MUCH faster/expensive media anyway.

Bottom line on SSDs is use them like a regular drive but DO NOT let them get full. If you've got a lot of data the segregate just that bulk data to a rotating drive and leave the OS and it's various files on the SSD. I've done this on a number of machines and it works out nicely. Day to day stuff is on the SSD and the rest on slower spinning rust.

 

[extide]

I prefer to have the 100MB partition in the front. If you don't then all the junk that would be in that partition is dumped in your c:. I like it over in that hidden partition, out of the way. BTW you CAN assign a drive letter o that hidden partition and look around...

There are no "problems" with partitioning an SSD,you can partition one just fine. However it's a lot more convenient in most cases not to. If you partition it and end up with too much space in one and not enough in the other then it's a big PITA, and you could have just left it as one.

 

[x509]

And if Windows goes downhill and needs to be reinstalled, I want the data on D: to be untouched during the C: format. So am asking is primary partitions the way to go just like on HDD? Anything else I should know doing it this way?

Despite what some other people have said, I have always kept data on D:, photos/music/fonts/videos on E:, downloads on F:, etc. And that has (1) saved MY butt a few times for when Windows does crash-and-burn, and (2) makes it easier to expand my overall storage. For example, I add a 2 TB drive to my system. Now I move let's say D: and E: to the new 2 TB drive, and leave E: and F: on the older 1 TB drive.

 

[Old Hippie]

I've always deleted that 100MB partition during the install.

No biggie, AFAIK it's just for encryption if you happen to use it.