Partial computer upgrade dilemma (need your input folks)

Z

zkostik

Gawd
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
929
Hey All,

I've been contemplating on upgrading my old gaming rig (first in my signature), which starts showing its age. To be honest, I don't game as much anymore but I still want to get a new box. Budget is kind of tight so I don't have the money to get everything at once. Basically it's either a new board, proc and SSDs or high end video card and SSD and use existing setup.

I mainly play EQ2 and SP games (mostly RPG and shooters). I suppose a high end video card is overkill for current monitor but it would last me much longer once it gets upgraded. I also do a fair amount of video encoding for my htpc and photo editing so I've pretty much concluded that LGA2011 platform is the way to go for me. I don't think I need the hexa-core chip but just a modern quad at faster clock speed would do. I picked this board because eVGA had terrible reviews all over the board. I also like the fact that this Gigabyte board still had one PCI slot for my existing sound card and future HT Omega card which are all PCI if you want a nice board.

Sandisk SSDs proved to be very reliable and decently fast so for the price, I think they cannot be beat. I won't touch OCZ with a 10 foot pole and not sure Corsair/Samsung drives are worth the extra money.

All builds I do must have at least a RAID1, hence the need for a pair of SSDs and I already have an army of spinners for general storage. I already have some generic DDR3 memory sitting around so if I get the board it'll get me by for now. I suppose roughly $850 is all I'm willing to spend right now and after hours of research these are the parts I'm looking at right now:

Processor upgrade route (current proc is decent but its socket 775 with ddr2 and no 6Gb/s SATA):
GA-X79-UD3 ($220)
i7-3820 ($280)
2x Sandisk Extreme SSD 240GB ($160 each)
Total: $820

Video card upgrade route:
eVGA GTX680 4GB w/ backplate (love the backplate and cooling is excellent even with single fan): 04G-P4-3687-KR ($560)
2x Sandisk Extreme SSD 240GB ($160 each)
Total: $880

Honestly, it sounds like I'm better off the proc/mobo route than just video card as it will speed up everything and I won't need to rebuild the whole thing later on. Anyway, any input or constructive criticism is welcome (if you want to suggest other parts and whatnot)! Please kindly weight in on my dilemma here.

Thanks!
 
Huge wall of text. Please answer the sticky questions int he format it's presented. Makes it easier on us to see what we need to see.

Additionally, it doesn't appear that you're going to be taking advantage of the 2011 platform AT ALL, therefore not need what-so-ever to go that route when the 1155 will do you just fine. However, this late into the year, I highly recommend holding out until Haswell is released which should be sometime soon in 2013.

We don't generally recommend Corsair drives, however the Samsung 840 Pro series drives are the fastest on the market, even in real world conditions therefore they are worth the money. If you want to save money, then the Samsung 830, Crucial M4 are a couple lower budget drives that are still good.

But please answer the sticky questions, so I (and anyone else giving advice) can see what we need to see quickly without reading a book. No offense. You can keep the book, but attach the questions at the bottom.

Thanks.
 
Hey Skills,


1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

Primary gaming but Photoshop and everything else as well.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

Roughly $850 total for now and some things will be reused (case, power supply, dvd burner, sound card, mechanical drives, maybe something else). This is not a fixed number but I *REALLY* don't want to go well beyond that. If I absolutely have to, then I'll probably hold off on the build for now.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

MD, USA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

Either board, cpu, SSD or video card and SSD

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

For now I will reuse everything I can, see first system in signature for parts list. Case and PSU will have no trouble supporting a new build.

6) Will you be overclocking?

Possibly, so that option should be there but in reality it will depend on parts that go into the system and how the end result performs.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?

For now it is a 20" 1680x1050 but who would spec system for that?

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

Now, while some of my considered parts are on sale.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.

UEFI is a must! Need RAID1 6Gb/s for SSD and ideally 4 more ports for a RAID10 mechanical but I suppose I can go by with 3Gb/s too. Ideally at least 4 SATA 6Gb/s ports and 4 SATA 3Gb/s are integrated on the board. SLI is nice but unlikely to be used. USB3 and eSATA are absolutely needed. Don't care about Firewire or onboard video, not sure I care about Thunderbolt either.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

Yes, retail Win7 Ultimate x64

======

Sorry for all the text, I just kinda wanted to lay out everything on the table at once (can't
say all the questions really apply to my concern anyway). I technically agree with you on the LGA2011 but the cooler mount is so much better on it and 1155. I really like being able to unmount the cooler without taking off the board. Also, the cost of said parts is the same as 1155 so why bother (I also feel LGA2011 will outlast it in terms of available hardware and support)? I also didn't see much in 1155 at $200 range that has 8+ SATA ports (Asrock boards did but I'm not very keen on going with that brand as I have little experience with them and their support). I've also been thinking about Haswell as well, but wasn't it slated for q3 2013 which is almost a year away?

I personally had really positive experience with Corsair and Sandisk hence using them (at present I've used more than a dozen of them and not even one had problems). Samsung 840 Pro is more than twice the cost of Sandisk drives. Yeah, they are great and all but at twice the price? Crucial M4 seems to have awfully low MTBF comparing to other drives and I've seen people complain about its Marvell controller for some reason not being happy on some boards. Do you have something against Sandisk drives or just haven't used them?

Again, thanks for any input you can provide and my apologies for a mile of text.
 
Main reason why I don't recommend Sandisk because they're using Sandforce controllers which we still have trust issues with.

Haswell is due out between March 2013 to June 2013.

The GPU upgrade is just bad for so many reasons. The CPU + mobo + RAM route is your best bet. Speaking of RAM, what RAM were you planning on using?

EDIT: Are you factoring MIR in the prices or something?
 
Last edited:
Hi Danny,

No, I'm not factoring MIR, in fact, I generally never buy anything with MIR. I've had terrible experience with that in general so I avoid them.

As far as Haswell goes, I thought it was going to use same socket but you're right, everything changes again. Though we still don't know how much better it will be or how much it will cost. If the sockets and everything changes then it can be like it was with socket 1155 and 2011 first crop of boards and too many problems. I feel my curren c2q 9450 is fairly adequate for my needs and hard drives and video care are what's slowing things down the most. I do totally agree than from upgrade perspective mobo/cpu/ram is the best way to go, but do you really think it will do more for gaming than just gpu/ssd?

For memory I had RMA'd old Corsair kit but since they are discontinued I'm getting a new 1600MHz Dominator kit (not sure when it will arrive though). For now I also have some generic 1333 DDR3 laying around that I mainly use for computer testing but they at least can get things going.

Why do you think GPU upgrade is that bad when generally speaking games rely on it more than anything? I agree that 600 series has been out for some time but since there's no release estimate on 700 series, who knows, it could be another year? I suppose I could just save up and do a full rebuild when next gen drops...
 
zkostik said:
No, I'm not factoring MIR, in fact, I generally never buy anything with MIR. I've had terrible experience with that in general so I avoid them.
Click to expand...
Ok because the price you quoted for that Gigabyte mobo just seems way too low since it's $248 shipped at Newegg now.

zkostik said:
As far as Haswell goes, I thought it was going to use same socket but you're right, everything changes again. Though we still don't know how much better it will be or how much it will cost.
Click to expand...
5 to 10% clock for clock difference at most. As for pricing, Intel usually introduces their new CPU at or near the price point of their older CPUs. The Core i5 3570K was introduced around the price point of Core i5 2500K and Core i5 2400 which were introduced around the price range of the Core i5 760 which was released around the price range of the Core i5 750 which was released around the price range of the Core 2 Duo E8400/E8500 which were released around the price range of the E6750 which was released around the price range of the Core 2 Duo E6420 which was released around the price range of the Core 2 Duo E6400. Pretty sure there's about a half-dozen CPUs I'm missing but you get the point. That's been Intel's plan for the past six years.

zkostik said:
I do totally agree than from upgrade perspective mobo/cpu/ram is the best way to go, but do you really think it will do more for gaming than just gpu/ssd?
Click to expand...
I was more concentrating on overall system performance and headroom for future GPU upgrades. Since your Q9450 is at stock, it may limit the performance of newer GPUs. Since you're also doing a ton of video encoding, a new CPU is definitely needed.
zkostik said:
For memory I had RMA'd old Corsair kit but since they are discontinued I'm getting a new 1600MHz Dominator kit (not sure when it will arrive though). For now I also have some generic 1333 DDR3 laying around that I mainly use for computer testing but they at least can get things going.
Click to expand...
For either DDR3 RAM set, find if they're rated at 1.5V or lower. New Intel CPUs have a max RAM voltage of 1.5V. Any higher and you risk CPU damage.
zkostik said:
Why do you think GPU upgrade is that bad when generally speaking games rely on it more than anything? I agree that 600 series has been out for some time but since there's no release estimate on 700 series, who knows, it could be another year? I suppose I could just save up and do a full rebuild when next gen drops...
Click to expand...
It's a bad idea when you're getting a GTX 680 4GB for the low low resolution of 1680x1050. That's just sheer stupid overkill and a total waste of money. It's more cost effective to buy the GPU suitable for your current resolution and then upgrade the GPU when you upgrade the monitor or when the GPU no longer meets your needs. At most, I would recommend the $200 HD 7850 for your current resolution. That's still a tad overkill but not sheer stupid overkill.

A few more questions before I start recommending parts:

1) How far are you from these Microcenter locations?:
http://microcenter.com/site/stores/rockville.aspx
http://microcenter.com/site/stores/towson.aspx

2) How long would it take you to obtain another $200 to $300 for future upgrades?

3) Does power consumption and heat generation matter for you?

4) What matters more? Gaming or video encoding performance?

5) Besides EQ2, have you played any newer games circa 2009 and later?
 
That mobo is $220 on Amazon with instant savings. My generic DDR3 is 1.5v but not sure about the new Corsair set. They have 1.5v and 1.65v Dominator sets. You're absolutely right about not all boards supporting 1.65v sets. That is something I totally overlooked so I'll make sure I get 1.5v set from them. Thanks!

I'm not sure a mid range card is really a worthwhile upgrade from my aging gtx280. From benchmarks 7850 seems to be a marginal upgrade at best, the only thing I'm to gain is DX11. I've previously always went for the high end model so I can use it for several generations. With low prices on monitors these days, it seems odd that you'd match a video card to existing monitor though. I do appreciate a different point of view on things though. At 1680 gtx280 I have run about everything at max or on high with no aa but I've been wondering how much I'm missing in DX11 capable games. Photoshop also does use graphics card a lot but I'm not sure whether it will necessarily benefit from a top end gpu. I also haven't been fan of AMD for a long time so most likely I would only go with green camp. There's just so much less bs with drivers and they tend to support older hardware better.

1) How far are you from these Microcenter locations?:
http://microcenter.com/site/stores/rockville.aspx
http://microcenter.com/site/stores/towson.aspx

I'm like 20 minutes from Rockville Microcenter but their prices are kind of a mix. I do love going there to look at various hardware before I buy. Some stuff is indeed cheaper there than online so you never know. I fix and build computers for living but it's much easier to work on someone else's budget.

2) How long would it take you to obtain another $200 to $300 for future upgrades?

I suppose it depends, I usually try going for more than I need so I don't have to change parts often (you typically don't get much money out of old parts so IMHO the less you upgrade the more junk parts you accumulate).

3) Does power consumption and heat generation matter for you?

Doesn't bother me as long as it isn't too noisy. Although when I'm gaming noise doesn't matter at all.

4) What matters more? Gaming or video encoding performance?

Kind of both matter but I do want to be able to run all modern games on high. Maybe for now DX11 doesn't matter much since games barely use any features that it provides but if I'm to upgrade why not have the box last another 2-3 years (just not seeing much sense otherwise)?

5) Besides EQ2, have you played any newer games circa 2009 and later?

You bet! Played probably about all of them, maybe with exception of new Hitman. For instance Max Payne 3 and Darksiders 2 run just fine on high but for EQ2 4-6GB is not enough and it doesn't make much sense buying obsolete parts for current system (current board can only take up to 8GB). Though hearing your thoughts it could make sense to upgrade current setup for now and wait until next gen cpu/gpu comes out.
 
Actually, my bad, I take that 7850 comment back. I was looking at 6850 and 7850 was a huge jump up. Though I'm still not sure I want to jump to the ATI camp but I might take you up on that judgment about getting a current gen mid range card, but to be fair, this generation mid range cards got a much bigger boost in performance it seems which kind of invalidated my point (I guess my card is just too many generations back). Perhaps a 660Ti would be a decent upgrade for now and keep gtx280 for physx.
 
zkostik said:
You're absolutely right about not all boards supporting 1.65v sets.
Click to expand...
Funny because I wasn't talking about the motherboard: I was talking about the CPU. 1.65V will work but it'll damage the CPU. Thats what I was talking about.

zkostik said:
I'm not sure a mid range card is really a worthwhile upgrade from my aging gtx280. From benchmarks 7850 seems to be a marginal upgrade at best, the only thing I'm to gain is DX11. I've previously always went for the high end model so I can use it for several generations.
Click to expand...
Not sure what Benchmarks you've been using but Anandtech says different:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/549?vs=520

Those aren't marginal performance increases unless your definition of marginal is anything less than a 100% performance increase. The closest Nvidia equivalent is the GTX 660:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/660?vs=520
zkostik said:
With low prices on monitors these days, it seems odd that you'd match a video card to existing monitor though. I do appreciate a different point of view on things though.
Click to expand...
My general opinion is that if you're not going to upgrade the monitor within a month to two months max, really no point in going big on the GPU as you're not getting full use of the GPU. I've seen people take up to six months to a year to upgrade their monitors. At that point they could have gotten two GPUs for the same price AND get higher performance as well.

zkostik said:
1) How far are you from these Microcenter locations?:
http://microcenter.com/site/stores/rockville.aspx
http://microcenter.com/site/stores/towson.aspx

I'm like 20 minutes from Rockville Microcenter but their prices are kind of a mix. I do love going there to look at various hardware before I buy. Some stuff is indeed cheaper there than online so you never know. I fix and build computers for living but it's much easier to work on someone else's budget.

2) How long would it take you to obtain another $200 to $300 for future upgrades?

I suppose it depends, I usually try going for more than I need so I don't have to change parts often (you typically don't get much money out of old parts so IMHO the less you upgrade the more junk parts you accumulate).
Click to expand...

All right here's my thoughts:
You're not taking advantage of the two main reasons to go socket 2011: 8 DIMMs and hex-core CPUs. The CPU costs is a bit of a wash but you would save money on the motherboard. When it comes to socket 2011, IMO, it's go big or go home.

Since you live near a Microcenter, you can actually grab the Core i5 3570K + Giagbyte GA-Z77X-UD5H for $350 shipped plus tax. That's $250 less than your planned socket 2011 setup. Thats $250 that you can use to get the GTX 660. So for $820 to $850, you can get the Core i5 3570K + Giagbyte GA-Z77X-UD5H + GTX 660 2GB and SSD. IMO, that's far more cost-effective than your planned upgrades.

Alternatively, if you're willing to overclock, can wait 3 to 6 months, don't plan on playing CPU heavy games, or need to vastly improve your video encoding performance right away, then just upgrade the GPU to the HD 7850 or GTX 660 plus the SSDs and then save the rest of your money for Haswell.

EDIT: Speaking of SSDs, right now the Crucial m4 256GB SSD is $160 shipped from Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-256GB...d=1356749527&sr=1-1&keywords=Crucial+M4+256GB

I'd rather recommend the above Crucial over most Sandforce based SSDs. The only Sandforce I'd recommend are Intel's 520 series SSDs.
 
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
I totally agree on your parts choices, and thanks for the board suggestion. 660ti is about 3 times the power of my existing video card so yes, I think that does make sense to upgrade. And you got my marginal upgrade definition spot on, IMO video card needs to be at least twice the performance otherwise why bother? The LGA2011 board I was looking at is actually 4DIMM, 8DIMM is more expensive and redundant in my case. Though, if you were going to spend extra $100 would you go for that LGA2011 setup or just save the money for something else (I do feel the advantage of getting a K series processor so it's unlocked and easy to overclock, and I don't think I need or can justify getting K series chip in LGA2011)?
 
Pretty much what danny said is where I was going.
 
Thanks for all your input guys, much appreciated. I was actually looking at that same i5-3570k and then the prices of LGA2011 that offered a bit more were pretty close. It was good to hear from others that it's a silly move so thanks for your time suggesting the parts and convincing me going in other direction. :)
 
Danny Bui said:
Main reason why I don't recommend Sandisk because they're using Sandforce controllers which we still have trust issues with.

Haswell is due out between March 2013 to June 2013.

The GPU upgrade is just bad for so many reasons. The CPU + mobo + RAM route is your best bet. Speaking of RAM, what RAM were you planning on using?

EDIT: Are you factoring MIR in the prices or something?
Click to expand...

I don't quite agree.. Not only sandisk.. Intel also uses the sandforce controller. So the trust issues are largely personal. Factually speaking, most top manufacturers use Sandforce and that's enough credibility as a user.
 
Intel like most other manufacturers use a SandForce controller, but Intel makes the firmware such as Cherryville for their 520 series SSD's. OCZ uses SandForce's firmware and so does Sandisk. That is why I am partial to Intel for their SSD's due to their own in house firmware.
 
Last edited:
John** said:
I don't quite agree.. Not only sandisk.. Intel also uses the sandforce controller. So the trust issues are largely personal. Factually speaking, most top manufacturers use Sandforce and that's enough credibility as a user.
Click to expand...
Yes but as noted above, Intel uses their own custom firmware whereas most Sandforce users don't. Considering Intel's SSD track record I am more than willing to give them a bit of leeway about that. But not other SSD manufacturers who use Sandforce.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top