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Painkiller (2025)

Flogger23m said:
Pretty much every new game runs poorly. Even the new Assassin's Creed game without ray tracing and upscaling can only get around 80 frame rates on an RTX 5080, at 2560x1440. Graphics are generally improving (and regressing a bit in some places) but the performance of many new releases just doesn't match the visual quality increase IMO.
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that's because developers are using DLSS/FSR and frame generation as a crutch instead of optimizing their games
 
Flogger23m said:
Pretty much every new game runs poorly. Even the new Assassin's Creed game without ray tracing and upscaling can only get around 80 frame rates on an RTX 5080, at 2560x1440. Graphics are generally improving (and regressing a bit in some places) but the performance of many new releases just doesn't match the visual quality increase IMO.
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Both the Indiana Jones and the new AC at least generally run good enough for me on my 4080.

UE5 just runs like shit. Even Black Myth Wukong had really bad stuttering problems.

But yes, it also doesn't help that outside of the 4090/5090 all the new GPU's basically improve nothing. The 5080 is no faster than the 4080, etc.
 
Mchart said:
Both the Indiana Jones and the new AC at least generally run good enough for me on my 4080.

UE5 just runs like shit. Even Black Myth Wukong had really bad stuttering problems.

But yes, it also doesn't help that outside of the 4090/5090 all the new GPU's basically improve nothing. The 5080 is no faster than the 4080, etc.
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Checking the TPU benchmarks, AC Shadow's gets 4-5 or so more frame rates than Black Myth (both with upscaling, without ray tracing). 4080 seemingly gets around 78 and 73 at 1440 for both games, and around 59 and 54 at 4K. IMO not exactly playable, at least for that level of hardware. I certainly wouldn't give praise to AC Shadows when it comes to performance. You'll need a RTX 5090 and upscaling to get 100+ frame rates at 2560x1440 without ray tracing. That is the fast GPU out there, and it can't even get a decent frame rate at 1440 without upscaling.
 
Flogger23m said:
Checking the TPU benchmarks, AC Shadow's gets 4-5 or so more frame rates than Black Myth (both with upscaling, without ray tracing). 4080 seemingly gets around 78 and 73 at 1440 for both games, and around 59 and 54 at 4K. IMO not exactly playable, at least for that level of hardware. I certainly wouldn't give praise to AC Shadows when it comes to performance. You'll need a RTX 5090 and upscaling to get 100+ frame rates at 2560x1440 without ray tracing. That is the fast GPU out there, and it can't even get a decent frame rate at 1440 without upscaling.
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Black myth ran like shit with any level of raytracing enabled. That's all i'm getting across. I can max settings in Shadows w/ DLSS Quality and framegen and it doesn't run like shit. That's all I really care about. I don't particularly care what the frame rate is as long as it's above 60 (Which Shadows is) and it's not constantly locking up like most UE5 games do. Yes, the benchmarks don't show much difference, but spending even 1-2 minutes of your time playing both you'll quickly realize how shit UE5 is as soon as you start including any level of raytracing. To get back to the intent of the thread being about Painkiller 2 - People have valid concerns this is using UE5 given how absolute dogshit UE5 has been up to this point, and this being a twitchy boomer shooter. I will concede Senua 2 generally ran good, that's the only standout UE5 game. However, that's walking simulator with very little actual gameplay going on.
 
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Mchart said:
Black myth ran like shit with any level of raytracing enabled. That's all i'm getting across. I can max settings in Shadows w/ DLSS Quality and framegen and it doesn't run like shit. That's all I really care about. I don't particularly care what the frame rate is as long as it's above 60 (Which Shadows is)
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Objectively, both run poorly, which is my point. Shadows requires the fastest GPU to get decent performance, without ray tracing, and with upscaling. Turn on ray tracing and turn off upscaling, and it gets around 70 or so frame rates at 2560x1440 on a 5090. That is extremely demanding. Essentially unless you have a $2000+ GPU and fast CPU, you can't max the game out at 1440 with a good frame rate.

Mchart said:
and it's not constantly locking up like most UE5 games do.
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I don't think I've ever had a UE5 game lock up on me. Though macro stutters (I'm assuming this is what you mean by locking up) isn't unheard of in some other engines/games like Spider Man (Spider Man 2 was much better in this regard, I only had maybe 1-2 macro stutters in the entire playthrough). ID Tech 7 is just awful though. I do wonder if Doom The Dark Ages is being made slower paced due to engine issues with jittering and input lag? It will be on Tech 8, but Tech 7 left a lot to be desired and I hope they made some great strides to improve the shortcomings of the current version.

Mchart said:
To get back to the intent of the thread being about Painkiller 2 - People have valid concerns this is using UE5 given how absolute dogshit UE5 has been up to this point, and this being a twitchy boomer shooter. I will concede Senua 2 generally ran good, that's the only standout UE5 game. However, that's walking simulator with very little actual gameplay going on.
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Works quite well in Ready or Not, which has smaller levels. I don't see any notable stuttering, at least not compared to most games/engines and it is a indie game that released on UE4 before being ported to UE5 post release. Painkiller looks to have linear, small sections which I assume means it will run better than most open world UE games. The bar isn't too high though. Dead Space Remake (Frostbite), Spider Man (Isometric engine), Indiana (Tech 7), Star Wars Outlaws (though fixed after patches) all had horrible stuttering problems. Two of those are not yet fixed and likely never will be. Kind of a shame that around half of all PC games run like trash these days.
 
Enigma said:
Tell that to those of us that ordered the Wrath: Aeon of Ruin Big Box and the Ion Fury: After Shock big boxes.... We waited 5 years for the Wrath Box to never come, The Ion Fury: Aftershock box still has not come either.

It has been radio silence from 3DR up until a few days ago when legal action was threatened. They have since canceled the Wrath box after holding the money for 5 years. They have until june to make the deadline on the AfterShock Box.

As far as Interceptor goes they were disbanded a long time ago and reformed into an new group called "Slipgate Ironworks". That outfit cannot be trusted either as they are still headed by Frederick Schrieber. The same person that until the Saber Interactive take over last year headed up 3DR and Interceptor/Slipgate


I am just saying be aware that if 3DR is involved it might be a shit show.
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Yeah, I meant Slipgate Ironworks. With Wrath the original developer just decided to quit the project he started rather than continue working with 3D Realms, so that says a lot about them as a publisher.
 
Flogger23m said:
Objectively, both run poorly, which is my point. Shadows requires the fastest GPU to get decent performance, without ray tracing, and with upscaling. Turn on ray tracing and turn off upscaling, and it gets around 70 or so frame rates at 2560x1440 on a 5090. That is extremely demanding. Essentially unless you have a $2000+ GPU and fast CPU, you can't max the game out at 1440 with a good frame rate.



I don't think I've ever had a UE5 game lock up on me. Though macro stutters (I'm assuming this is what you mean by locking up) isn't unheard of in some other engines/games like Spider Man (Spider Man 2 was much better in this regard, I only had maybe 1-2 macro stutters in the entire playthrough). ID Tech 7 is just awful though. I do wonder if Doom The Dark Ages is being made slower paced due to engine issues with jittering and input lag? It will be on Tech 8, but Tech 7 left a lot to be desired and I hope they made some great strides to improve the shortcomings of the current version.



Works quite well in Ready or Not, which has smaller levels. I don't see any notable stuttering, at least not compared to most games/engines and it is a indie game that released on UE4 before being ported to UE5 post release. Painkiller looks to have linear, small sections which I assume means it will run better than most open world UE games. The bar isn't too high though. Dead Space Remake (Frostbite), Spider Man (Isometric engine), Indiana (Tech 7), Star Wars Outlaws (though fixed after patches) all had horrible stuttering problems. Two of those are not yet fixed and likely never will be. Kind of a shame that around half of all PC games run like trash these days.
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Maybe some are more sensitive to stutters, been playing Dead Space Remake and there are so few stutters that I’ve noticed. The obvious pause, other than that it has been smooth. Even when going to a different area for the first time it has been smooth for the most part. Maybe I am walking like an old man and the game engine has ample of time to do its thing.
 
noko said:
Maybe some are more sensitive to stutters, been playing Dead Space Remake and there are so few stutters that I’ve noticed. The obvious pause, other than that it has been smooth. Even when going to a different area for the first time it has been smooth for the most part. Maybe I am walking like an old man and the game engine has ample of time to do its thing.
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Dead Space Remake was certainly bad. Quite noticeable. Worse than The Callisto Protocol, which also had issues. Both were the latest builds for each respective game. I know TCP was horrible at release, and still had issues when I played it but it was still better than Dead Space.
 
Flogger23m said:
Dead Space Remake was certainly bad. Quite noticeable. Worse than The Callisto Protocol, which also had issues. Both were the latest builds for each respective game. I know TCP was horrible at release, and still had issues when I played it but it was still better than Dead Space.
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This.
I didn't think Dead Space Remake was all that bad in the first couple of chapters of the game, but once you hit Hydroponics, it gets real bad and the further you get from there the worse it gets.

The Callisto Protocol was really only bad around the shitty looking fire in the beginning of the escape scene. I last played it back in April and thought it was pretty good compared to all the horror stories that I had heard about it, certainly better than Dead Space Remake that I played back in January.

I'm just hoping that I don't have to wait for 6 months to a year worth of patches to get Painkiller in shape once it drops.
 
Flogger23m said:
Dead Space Remake was certainly bad. Quite noticeable. Worse than The Callisto Protocol, which also had issues. Both were the latest builds for each respective game. I know TCP was horrible at release, and still had issues when I played it but it was still better than Dead Space.
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the developer seems to have abandoned the game after 1 or 2 patches which is terrible...same with Returnal
 
Looks okay. Seems like a number of Doom knock offs are coming out. I would prefer something more like Crysis or Far Cry 1, but this looks alright.
 
You want blood? Prove it. 🩸⛧ We are opening the gates on a Closed Technical Test from June 4-16. Limited seats. Maximum mayhem.📜 Get in early and let the gibs fly: sabr.gg/PK-Si…
 

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CAD4466HK said:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyigIFJoEFQ
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Man, that looks great. Hard to believe how some folks say that ray tracing doesn't add anything, or complain about it being "the worst thing that's happened to games." Yes, it doesn't come without a performance penalty and the implementations of it vary, but when it's done well it's freaking awesome and makes things look MUCH more realistic and dynamic.

I can somewhat understand not wanting it to be mandatory in every modern title, thus essentially locking out a bunch of older GPUs or making newer ones struggle where they otherwise wouldn't...but I really love how RTX Remix is able to breathe new life into some of these classic games like Deus Ex, Quake, Half-Life, Tomb Raider, Max Payne, etc. so I'm not sure how one can argue against applying the technology to these, especially seeing as it's entirely optional and you're not being charged a dime for it unlike with a remaster.
 
It isn't that ray tracing doesn't look good, it depends how it is implemented. That game still looks very dated with horrible low quality textures and whatnot. Just throwing ray tracing in there doesn't make it look good. A lot of times slapping ray tracing on changes the lighting too much and makes a scene look very different. Lighting is often done in a certain way for artistic purposes. The main problem is developers still need to do raster lighting, which means they can't properly tune a scene with ray tracing as they have to make an area look right (or close enough) with both. I know some games are now ray tracing only so this is going to change long term and developers will be able to purely focus on making lighting look proper in ray tracing. The only problem with this is how demanding it still is, and the rising costs of GPUs.
 
Lateralus said:
Man, that looks great. Hard to believe how some folks say that ray tracing doesn't add anything, or complain about it being "the worst thing that's happened to games." Yes, it doesn't come without a performance penalty and the implementations of it vary, but when it's done well it's freaking awesome and makes things look MUCH more realistic and dynamic.
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It's mostly sour grapes for people who don't have GPUs that can do a good job of path tracing. I've seen that happen periodically with big new graphics technologies (DX10, shaders) where some people slag on them when they are new because they are mad they don't have it.

For some it is also because they've only experienced kinda shit versions of it. Ray tracing can be implemented in pretty limited ways and in those, it isn't very impressive. If your only experience with it is on modern consoles I could see a very "why does anyone care?" kind of attitude as it is usually very minimal visual gain.

Also some people really get fixated on the negatives and because they are looking so hard at those, miss the positives. Path tracing does have noise and stability issues that a rasterized scene does not. To me, it is 100% worth it, I mean any movie shot on film has noise issues (film grain) and they are still well worth watching. However some people get real over focused on those details and it causes them to ignore the improvements.


Ultimately I think it isn't going to matter in the long run I think things will go to some form of RT and not just because of the visual improvement. The advantages to development are just too big, it is a real time saver to have a good, unified, lighting system where things like shadows, reflections, ambient occlusion, indirect lighting, etc all just fall out of the model rather than having to be worked on by artists. As GPUs progress it will eventually become something even lower end GPUs can handle in realtime and I think games will just start migrating over. Not happening soon, but I think it'll happen.
 
Painkiller was ok. Think I will bargain bin this game or if it is on GP then play it for free or something.
 
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