Overkill for a gaming rig?

[Sparkyy]

I pretty much always have my headphones on and 90% of the time it is for gaming as the title states, sometimes movies or music but not to often with headphones.

I have been looking on this forum and at head-fi.org for a good sound setup for headphones and gone through various DACs such as Aune, uDAC and others in that price range.

I stumbled across Maverick Audio and saw that they had a nice DAC and Amp units with upgraded tubes. If I got both of those with the upgrades and paired them to Beyer Dynamic DT 770 (possibly 600OHM), is that overkill for a primarly gaming rig?

Would I just be better off getting the 770s 250 OHMs with a new Auzen Prelude or better performing sound card then what I have currently?

Thanks.

 

[Ronco]

Nothing is overkill. I used to run an Orpheus as my gaming phones.

However in your situation you might be better off choosing a good headset that has HRTF capabilities. The Logitech G35 for example is a tad clampy but has acceptable sound in Stereo, and outstanding game audio in surround. The degree of effectiveness is dependent on th age of the game (CS:S - no, not even with 7.1 enabled, Crysis - oh yeah) but the virtual 7.1, while not actually all that accurate in terms of pinpointing sources, actually works to give you a sense of depth in the game.

If you happen to get one with a buzz on the right hand side, you can request a return or get Logitech directly to replace it - it's old stock.

 

[kraken0698]

Well, I wouldn't say that "nothing is overkill"

 

[Ronco]

Well, it depends on your interpretation. Besides, getting the ZM-MIC1 located acceptably on the ribbon cable was the biggest headache.

 

[Sparkyy]

Yeah, maybe overkill was the wrong word? lol

Anyways, just looking for a great set of cans for gaming, I am in an apartment so I don't want to be rude and blast away bass, as much fun as it would be at 2am to have the neighbors hear, "Incoming!!" *booooomm!!!*. The police might not find it funny, so just want to make sure I am spending money on something that I could accomplish for much cheaper.

 

[Ronco]

I'd say you're better off with gaming headsets in that case, especially the closed (and actually isolating) G35.

 

[DeathPrincess]

Well, I wouldn't say that "nothing is overkill"

"THIS SYSTEM HAS BEEN TESTED FOR PROPOER OPERATION BY MYSELF"

I think the headband on those is a little too tight...

Plus it's full of valves so is worse than useless as a reference headphone amp...

 

[King of Heroes]

Would I just be better off getting the 770s 250 OHMs with a new Auzen Prelude or better performing sound card then what I have currently?

Thanks.

Since you're going to be using an external DAC/Amp for your headphones then you don't need to buy an expensive sound card since you'll be largely bypassing it anyway. If its EAX/OpenAL you want, just get the cheapest Titanium you can find (which I think $99, you can probably get it for less on Ebay or something). They all have optical/coaxial digital output.

 

[Gmok Bonecrusha]

I just recently purchased the Maverick Audio D1/A1 you are referring to. With a few growing pains (bad tube) I will say, it absolutely is not overkill. The sound is absolutely awesome for music and games. BFBC2 will make you duck a bullet it sounds so great.

I am using the RCA on a Titanium HD > D1 > A1 > HD650's. I personally didn't like the sound from the optical for gaming. Sounded flat. I also just could not get the CMSS 3D to work at all over optical. Dolby was more airy and open...but CMSS 3D was just better for FPS's.

But to answer your question? Overkill? Hell Naw!

 

[oqvist]

I don´t understand why anyone recommend gaming headphones or crappy headsets over decent headphones like the DT 770?

I have headphones ranging from 50-1500$ so yes nothing is over kill. That doesn´t mean the most expensive gear is always the best. Audio is quite subjective after all.

 

[nalc]

I'm also using a Maverick D1.

It's got a hell of a headamp. I'd have no qualms driving 600 ohm cans through it.

I run my AKG K340s through it. Those are 800-ohm two-way electrostats with step-up transformers, and the Maverick D1 drives them great.

There's a big thread on head-fi with some great info. All I've done has been take two high-quality resistors and solder them in to reduce the gain on the headphone section (I think current production models have the reduced gain already, I got mine secondhand). Definitely a good idea, reduces the output but that gives the volume knob more range (before I was hitting normal listening levels on like 10% of the knob) and reduces floor noise.

 

[Ronco]

I don´t understand why anyone recommend gaming headphones or crappy headsets over decent headphones like the DT 770?

I have headphones ranging from 50-1500$ so yes nothing is over kill. That doesn´t mean the most expensive gear is always the best. Audio is quite subjective after all.

Because they're better for gaming, and the OP has said he's primarily going to game?

 

[Gmok Bonecrusha]

Because they're better for gaming, and the OP has said he's primarily going to game?

Incoming in 5....4....3.....

 

[Ronco]

Bring on the nerdophiles.

For example, if you were to say to me:
"Out of all the headphones/sets you have within a chair-roll of you right now, which is the best set to use with Crysis?"

My answer would be "ranked top-left, bottom-right"

 

[oqvist]

Incoming in 5....4....3.....

Well he is asking for it lol

But seriously in what way are they better for gaming? Hearing sound through walls or immerse you in the game world? Which headphones do you think is capable of playing louder with less distortion and allow you to retrieve more real detail? Trust me it´s no Razer or Logitech or anything. Those I have tried are hardly more detailed then a Koss Porta Pro.

If you want to eq the headphones to hear foot steps better you get a high fidelity headphone and you pair it with an equalizer like the Behringer DEQ 2496 for example. Rather then get headphones with insane peaks that make them just about impossible to use seriously for movies/music and damage your hearing in the area where the peaks are.

As for headsets and gaming headphones. Some supposedly "5.1" I have yet to find any that soundstage like Ultrasones like Pro 900 or ED 8. Sound quality is utter rubbish too without exception and is in no area "better for gaming"

Particularly the Pro 900 is very detailed. Now those headphones do really benefit from good source and amps but the less picky one may find them superb straight out of a better soundcard.

T1, DX 1000, LCD-2 all work very well. Very different to eachother and particularly the T1 and DX 1000 is extremely picky about amping.

But no I can´t understand why some people feel gaming headsets are better for gaming. I feel those have fallen victim to the marketing. Logitech, Razer and the likes do aim their headphones for gamers but they have little knowledge on how to produce good sounding gear obviously. The build quality is almost without exception sub standard. I have not owned a headset or 5.1 gaming headphone that survived more then a year. Kinyo 5.1 has the best track record or them all. Still work but there is an unacceptable level of distortion in them.

Each to their own but I don´t buy the argument that you recommend them because they are better for gaming. They are not in any sense at all IMO.

 

[Ronco]

But no I can´t understand why some people feel gaming headsets are better for gaming

Simple answer. Because they've used them

That's really all it comes down to. It is monumentally dumb to infer your whole experience of 'gaming headsets' from some dirt-cheap POS you bought years ago.

Kudos to a tirade of fauxdiophile BS by the way. And perhaps you didn't spot the T1 in that lineup?

 

[450]

Ronco, what was the HE90 like for gaming?

 

[Ronco]

Ronco, what was the HE90 like for gaming?

Pretty good overall, because the Orpheus's staging is one of the more 'speakery' out there - i.e. it almost appears that you have speakers placed kind of in front of you. Combine that with the HRTF effects of Creative's CMSS, and I didn't feel handicapped in e.g. CS:S. The sense of space was definitely there, although ultimately you never quite got 'out of your head', and rear and side cues were indeterminate at best in comparison to an actual 5.1 setup. The docile (if you can put it like that) tonal character of the HE90 was neither a particular advantage or hindrance, I'd say.

Would I pick it over a decent current gaming headset with HRTF for gaming? Probably not, even if you take the physical unwieldiness out of the equation. These days the (different) HE/V90 combo is firmly a living-room setup.

My gaming audio setup was the analog out of the X-Fi Elite Pro looped back into a Fireface 800, with the X-fi set as the default audio output. The Fireface has very flexible audio routing so I could leave everything plugged in and switch stuff in and out using the RME panel, and that meant I could do 'audiophile' listening and gaming audio out of the same setup - as the CMSS'd sound would be routed through the Fireface when gaming, but since I'd have the Fireface set as the output audio device in e.g. Foobar or j.River, music would come directly out of the RME and I'd just mute the X-Fi input. These days, I just switch the output to the G35's. Looking forward to trying out the new Creative Tactics, which apparently offers the best HRTF implementation to date.

 

[oqvist]

Simple answer. Because they've used them

That's really all it comes down to. It is monumentally dumb to infer your whole experience of 'gaming headsets' from some dirt-cheap POS you bought years ago.

Kudos to a tirade of fauxdiophile BS by the way. And perhaps you didn't spot the T1 in that lineup?

Who said something about years ago? I am having fun trying all the new stuff in stores along side the ED 8. There is a reason why I never comes home with one

Yes I spotted the modded DT 770 and T1. But you rank a crappy logitech headphone ahead of them? You may have find a gaming headset that beat more serious headphones I have not at this point I also don´t see why someone should buy that DT 770 headset when I could just get a DT 770 Pro for much less and a clip on mic.

 

[Ronco]

Who said something about years ago? I am having fun trying all the new stuff in stores along side the ED 8. There is a reason why I never comes home with one

Oh yeah, the standard Head-Fi 'I'm an authority because I tried a completely unfamiliar set in a store for 30 seconds with the conclusion already foregone'. Bravo. That means nothing. Kudos for admitting that you have no worthwhile experience though, even if it is in the typical roundabout way. I'm not a little surprised, given the apparent experience you have, that you still have this cognitive dissonance.

Yes I spotted the modded DT 770 and T1. But you rank a crappy logitech headphone ahead of them? You may have find a gaming headset that beat more serious headphones I have not at this point

I didn't say the Logi outperformed the DT for outright stereo sound (although I'd have to say the gulf is not as wide as a nerdophile would assume). I said the Logi outperformed the rest for gaming. It's a different set of requirements - there's a baseline quality requirement which the Logi (and other leading gaming headsets) meets or exceeds, and beyond that there are other aspects which the regular headphones can't do.

I also don´t see why someone should buy that DT 770 headset when I could just get a DT 770 Pro for much less and a clip on mic.

Because I can. Something you must be familiar with - I mean, why would you & I invest in a >1000euro closed phone that is, lets face it, not a quantum leap over the company's (much) cheaper offerings for portable use?

And because ultimately, you know jack in this respect. I'm sure you know your way in (certain) headphones - the inferences you make there though just doesn't translate into this category. For a 90/10 user, any of the leading gaming headsets will offer more than adequate sound quality for the occasional music listening - and movie watching will be enhanced with HRTF. For gaming, well - there's all of the above that I've written already.

 

[firas]

Well, I wouldn't say that "nothing is overkill"

note to self: never enter the audio forum again.

 

[oqvist]

Where did I say I tried them for 30 seconds? Seriously come on you are just being an ass. Ronco I don´t know you. I don´t know if you are a troll or serious but you are not being very constructive with your arguments and they make little sense unless you are trolling.

If I could get you off that mode what specific requirements for gaming do you get from the logitech headset in question over those headphones you preferr for music? Would be nice with pictures on your HE90 setup as well

 

[Gmok Bonecrusha]

note to self: never enter the audio forum again.

Hence the countdown man...

I didn't say the Logi outperformed the DT for outright stereo sound (although I'd have to say the gulf is not as wide as a nerdophile would assume). I said the Logi outperformed the rest for gaming. It's a different set of requirements - there's a baseline quality requirement which the Logi (and other leading gaming headsets) meets or exceeds, and beyond that there are other aspects which the regular headphones can't do.

I'll bite, what is the baseline quality requirement? I have tried the Logitechs, own the Senns, and neither come close to sound quality of my current setup for gaming. BTW, the Senns sounded much better than the Logitechs IMO. And I am far from an audiophile.

 

[DeathPrincess]

BTW, the Senns sounded much better than the Logitechs IMO. And I am far from an audiophile.

To be honest. The headphones that sound the best to you ARE the best headphones. Especially if you're not mixing music or mastering anything. Get a load of CDs/MP3s of a range of your favirote music (something that is the general material you listen to, if its games, rip the audio off a good quality youtube gameplay video or the trailer) then go to a place that has several and ask to listen to them. The one that sounds the best is the winner.
Audiophile just means "someone who likes sound". It is not a mark of skill or listening ability, which is hugely subjective, they were not born with amazing ear canals. People who know about audio equipment can point you in the right direction based on their opinions or whatever. But the desicion that you make should be based on your opinion... Unless you're buying over the interwebs, then your going to have to take some recommendation.

 

[Ronco]

Hence the countdown man...



I'll bite, what is the baseline quality requirement? I have tried the Logitechs, own the Senns, and neither come close to sound quality of my current setup for gaming. BTW, the Senns sounded much better than the Logitechs IMO. And I am far from an audiophile.

By try, what are we talking about here? Did you kick in Dolby? Did you actually, dare I say it, play a game and not crank up a 6moons playlist?

@DeathPrincess - there is that to a degree for sure. The problem is that a lot of people say stuff without having any relevant experience at all. You're getting my honest opinions here as someone with actually experience (in terms of buying these things and using them in a like-for-like environment for long enough to have an opinion), and if that disagrees with someone's fauxdiophile perceived notions, well that's too bad.

 

[oqvist]

To be honest. The headphones that sound the best to you ARE the best headphones. Especially if you're not mixing music or mastering anything. Get a load of CDs/MP3s of a range of your favirote music (something that is the general material you listen to, if its games, rip the audio off a good quality youtube gameplay video or the trailer) then go to a place that has several and ask to listen to them. The one that sounds the best is the winner.
Audiophile just means "someone who likes sound". It is not a mark of skill or listening ability, which is hugely subjective, they were not born with amazing ear canals. People who know about audio equipment can point you in the right direction based on their opinions or whatever. But the desicion that you make should be based on your opinion... Unless you're buying over the interwebs, then your going to have to take some recommendation.

Trust your ears. Hearing is believing. Not much to add excellent post. Listen to as much as possible but don´t forget the use of good equalizers. That is one thing that is often shunned on in the audiophile world but widely accepted in the pro studio world. Headphones are some what of a jack of all trades. You can´t get a headphone that does it all so I would say headphones are even more subjective then speakers. You can get speakers for very little money that measure really well in a good room and obviously soundstage quite a bit better then headphones are capable of. For headphones you either get the soundstaging right or you get the tone right is my experience.

You can use an equalizer to make your system more neutral, or reduce frequencies your ears are sensitive to. Or boost the FR where foot steps or such in specific games belong. This is what many gaming headsets try to achieve. Or just eq to feed your bass head or whatever part of the music you like more forward. Within reason of course. There is also a trend in "HIFI" headphones marketed for music where you elevate the treble to get more perceived detail and a bigger soundstage. But at least those have a lot better drivers and magnets that let you play with your EQ more without distortion from hell.

Just to explain my ears a bit. I am just as much a gamophile as a hifi/audiophile. But also when playing games I want things to sound natural and as the game developers intended. I don´t want my ears raped while trying to enjoy a game. Audiophile means you get very picky about audio to I may add I want a speaker like presentation certainly but not at any cost. Only 5.1 headset of all those I tried which is most that give me some what of a taste of what I get with my 5.1 speakers was the Zalman 5.1. But oboy does that sound weird like nothing else.

 

[Ronco]

Where did I say I tried them for 30 seconds? Seriously come on you are just being an ass. Ronco I don´t know you. I don´t know if you are a troll or serious but you are not being very constructive with your arguments and they make little sense unless you are trolling.

What you write tells me that you haven't bothered to try any - beyond what I wrote previously - in a meaningful manner. Yes - there's a lot of nice one-sided argument there, but actually virtually nothing to back it up from your end in terms of what you've actually had / experienced.

Neither of us are trolls. But I just have more experience. Deal with it.

 

[thetruth]

I use some old beat up Stax Nova Basics which are related(distantly) to the Big O. I got them for $125 + $175 for a modified SRD-7 Energizer + Boston Acoustics 7200 Receiver and my X-Fi. That means my headphones are powered by 120 watts per channel lol.

Using the X-Fi's 3-D sound, headphones and digital stereo mix selected, setting the windows speaker setting to 5.1 has given me a very decent simulation of surround sound.

I can distinctly hear where the sound is coming from. If it is above me left, that is where it emanates from within the head speaker or cup for normal headphones. It also is fainter for distant sounds and louder for closer. It does this with great detail and pretty much is like having an all seeing hack. In smaller BFBC2 servers, like a 20 man, I am impossible to sneak up on. I can hide in dense brush and not see anything but still know where a person is. Worth the effort if you want a realistic sounding gaming rig or console. It does well with my 360 too.

 

[Daishiknyte]

You will have a blast with the 770/250 + Prelude. I've had the pleasure of both gaming and listening to that same combination on a friends rig. It was stunning. A good clip on mic would round it out well.

 

[Sparkyy]

Wow, thank you to everyone who has responding. After looking this thread over and more research, I am currently leaning towards the Asus Xonar Essence ST card since it has dedicated headphone jack and possibly the Swan M1080 speakers.

Still not quite set on the cans but probably the 770/250s (or 770/600, not sure) and I have to have closed cans.

Thanks again!

 

[oqvist]

What you write tells me that you haven't bothered to try any - beyond what I wrote previously - in a meaningful manner. Yes - there's a lot of nice one-sided argument there, but actually virtually nothing to back it up from your end in terms of what you've actually had / experienced.

Neither of us are trolls. But I just have more experience. Deal with it.

Please help me. My logic fails me. How can you inferr that you have the most knowledge in the world regarding headphones? It´s the only way you can suggest you have more experience then anybody else around here.
Your sig says it all "I'm not bitter, I just know you inside out". Problem is you are not psychic

I could ask you to back up your claims as well but dunno what good that would do. I have actually backed up mine so it´s your turn really. Unless you are just an insecure kid pretending to own the HE90. If you have a basic knowledge of audio and gaming you should be able to see my viewpoint clearly. I guess I know you inside out

Sparkyy if you don´t have a good amp I suggest you stick with the 80 ohm beyer. The 600 ohm versions are generally more liked then the 250 otherwise but those are more demanding. Volume won´t be an issue the Essence have plenty of gain but you will not get the most out of it. Haven´t heard those on the Essence though only the 80 ohm.

 

[jakebot]

Well, I wouldn't say that "nothing is overkill"

WOW

 

[Ronco]

Where did I say I tried them for 30 seconds? Seriously come on you are just being an ass. Ronco I don´t know you. I don´t know if you are a troll or serious but you are not being very constructive with your arguments and they make little sense unless you are trolling.

If I could get you off that mode what specific requirements for gaming do you get from the logitech headset in question over those headphones you preferr for music? Would be nice with pictures on your HE90 setup as well

I never replied to this, did I? I know I'm not going to get a graceful reply to this, so here's a repost: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1028639813&highlight=orpheus#post1028639813
And the difference with the Medusa I had back then and the Logitech is that the G35 works really well.

What do I get? Punchier sound, immersive surround that is if not accurate (and no consumer implementation I've tried has been fully successful in that respect) then, well, immersive, and a degree of everyday practical usability that audiophile solutions cannot match.

Sure, the Logitech is not quite a match for the DT770 in terms of outright sound quality. But it's consequently much less even at regular street, let along the frequent deals that can take it to below $100 - and it is surprising how close it gets in many respects of sound quality, especially when you consider the desirability of a more aggressive sound, while delivering sufficient fidelity for gaming. I can see it being perfectly acceptable for even fairly discerning types.

The plastic earcup pins are a cause of long-term worry, but you have this issue in many other fauxdiophile-recommended solutions such as the ATH-A series and the low-end Denons.

See, however you argue this, it's pretty clear that you only have one side of the story. I know you think you're right because many other people in your peer-group over at Head-Fi for example say so . The problem is, they've also undergone the same upgrade path with the same prejudices you have - so it's an echo chamber, not a viable source of experience.

And FYI, it's not a modded DT770 - at least, not in the 'I modded' it sense. It's the MMX 300.

The primary problem with the Zalman is that it's really boomy when you put it up very close (in many cases then introducing additional noises as you move your arms / head etc), or rendered into relative indistinctness once you put it down to a manageable cable-length away. Theoretically it's not that bad a mic - in terms of quality it is probably as good as the one found on the G35, which by the way has a 'harder' tone without booming that is if not that natural in terms of timbre, is more effective in-game (and of course consistent in terms of performance) than the Zalman's pickup. The same sort of harder-edged timbre was noticed on the now-departed PC 350. What the Zalman tries to be like in terms of timbre is in fact the mic on the MMX 300 - which has a more broad-spectrum pickup, but the ZM-1 is uncontrolled in the lows while soft in the mids - exactly the way a voice pickup mic shouldn't be.

The thing is, that in terms of practicality and usability, the Zalman is just nowhere near as effective as these headset mics. Now if the recommended headphones were hugely better than the likes of the G35 in terms of in-game sonics (and indeed, for music), then sure - the Zalman is a viable solution.

But when the G35 is in most cases cheaper and offers nearly the same, the same, or superior audio performance than more expensive combo's while offering you physical convenience, and also in certain cases things like superior isolation (in comparison to e.g. the Audio-Technicas) - then you have to think twice. Especially if you're a gamer first, and music-listener second. Fauxdiophiles have to realise that not everyone shares their love of overnerding solutions for often no additional non-placebo benefit at all.

This is the last I'll have to say about the pros and cons. I'm sure the fauxdiophile masses will have more to say from the point of view of no experience though...