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Overheating causing shutdown constantly

V

Vesqwi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
352
Ok I wasn't sure if I would post this thread on the Cooling section or here, you'll understand why.

Notebook Specs (Detailed specs screenshot on the right):
TOSHIBA Satellite A660-042 http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...16834114988CVF <-- (system summary)
CPU: Intel Core i7 740QM(1.73GHz) http://prntscr.com/16u4hn
MOBO: http://prntscr.com/16u5il
BIOS: http://prntscr.com/16u5l9

some less relevant spec:
GPU: GeForce GTS 350M http://prntscr.com/16u4rb
RAM: 8GB G.Skill DDR3 http://prntscr.com/16u4xx
HDD: 640GB HDD 5400rpm http://prntscr.com/16u53w

[Problem]
Laptop overheat and shutdown after about 5 min of playing any recent game, even when set at lowest settings and resolution. It seems like the heat won't evacuate ..
Games runs flawless, even at medium or high and even Ultra settings and high resolution because the laptop was made for it and has plenty enough power to do so,
BUT it constently shutdown because of overheating, whatever settings I put the game on.
It shutdown at 100°C precisely (which is damn hot)
Everyday usage temperature is around 77°C (which is too hot but not enough to make the laptop shutdown)


[Attempts so far]
-Formated (just purchased from someone and was full of sh*tty virus and junkwares)
[Result] :Windows is vanilla Fresh and drivers are all up-to-date. Actually I started to troubleshoot the overheating from there, not before the obviously needed format

-Tried less recent games (Doom 3 and lower) and at lowest settings & resolution
[Result] :Overheating issue persist. It might take a couple minutes more before shuttings down but still doest, and that is abnormal

-Opened and cleaned everything inside the laptop including fan, heatsink.
[Result] :Was all clean already so the culprit is not here.

-Tried the SpeedFan app to force the fan to run faster
[Result] the app won't detect my fan (because of some incompatible bus from what I've read).
Speedfan however made me notice that the GPU temp seems to be fine (here is some temp summary on normal usage (no game) : http://prntscr.com/16u9gb

-Got the thermal paste replaced at some computer shop (he didn't have AS5, but he said they were all pretty much the same.. which sound like bullsh* to me.. anyway.
[Result]: It did lower the everyday usage temp by about 10-15°C but did not fix the In-Game overheating at all. (I disassembled the laptop to verify that thermal paste job and here is what it looked like (no very clean INHO): https://www.dropbox.com/s/42waea6ufq...02.jpg?v=0mcns

-Went back again to the shop explaining the persisting overheating issue, and he said it must be the CPU that is defect.
[Result]: Made some research about it and seems like it could be it... thats why i'm here now.



Solution ?
[Solution]: Could the heatsink be broke ? (the guy at the shop would told me...)
[Solution]: Could the CPU be the issue ? if so , I can change it since it's not soldered on the mobo and I found the same sold on ebay for around 50 buck. But this lead me to wonder if I could upgrade CPU instead. My research lead me to find a list of compatible CPUs: http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/CPUs/Inte.../i7-740QM.html <-- bottom page
[Solution]: If I can't find the culprit, I will create a custom wood boxed dock kinda like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0rYPDXzx5M
[Solution]: Suggestion ?


Okay for now I think you have enough information for a first post. I'll be right here to answer any question you might need to help me solve this issue !
Thanks
 
Well you pretty much went through the culprits. If the cooling system is working then the cooling package simply can't handle the heat generated by the laptop under stress. Toshiba funny that. Anyway you have two inexpensive options either underclock the CPU/GPU or buy a laptop cooling pad.
 
There actually is something defect somewhere, it's not just a lack of power from the machine.. I see ppl with this laptop playing a lot of game on youtube.. there's something wrong and I try to find it.

Did you take a look at the Thermal Paste job the guy did on my first post's screenshot ? https://www.dropbox.com/s/42waea6ufq...02.jpg?v=0mcns
Is this supposed to be a clean job ? I thought I might redo it.. but I don't think it would solve the problem.. could the CPU be defect ?
I ordered some IC Diamond thermal paste to re-do that job at least.. it's coming in a few days
 
Those are some very high temps it seems for "everyday", which I assume is web surfing and the like, where the CPU should be idle most of the time, are you sure the fan is working or spooling up under load? TIM will not have that large of an impact, he is right in that most TIM's are the same, they are all within a C or two of each other and how well it is applied has much more to do with temps than what brand of TIM is used. When you take off the HS, check the contact area, make sure the base is making good even contact with the CPU, check to make sure the fan is coming on and spooling up. The HS's don't really "break" unless the base has a defect and does not make good contact of the heatpipe had a bad seal somewhere and lost the fluid inside, which could happen, but these are all defects, the only that that will really break on them is the fan, and in my repair days I ran into a good number of faulty fans, even on new units.
 
BlueFireIce said:
Those are some very high temps it seems for "everyday", which I assume is web surfing and the like, where the CPU should be idle most of the time, are you sure the fan is working or spooling up under load? TIM will not have that large of an impact, he is right in that most TIM's are the same, they are all within a C or two of each other and how well it is applied has much more to do with temps than what brand of TIM is used. When you take off the HS, check the contact area, make sure the base is making good even contact with the CPU, check to make sure the fan is coming on and spooling up. The HS's don't really "break" unless the base has a defect and does not make good contact of the heatpipe had a bad seal somewhere and lost the fluid inside, which could happen, but these are all defects, the only that that will really break on them is the fan, and in my repair days I ran into a good number of faulty fans, even on new units.
Click to expand...

When you say that you ran into a good number of faulty fans, what did you mean by "faulty" ? They were simply not running at all or were on but weak ??

I ask because I can actually hear the fan running and also feel some wind coming out of the vent... but i think it's not running very fast.. (I have tried to find a way to make it run faster but the only app I know that was able to do it (SpeedFan) won't detect it (some bus incompatibility I guess..?)..

Thanks for helping
 
Both, I had some just not working and some that would not hit full speed, some would pulse on and off etc etc, just duds over all. If you are feeling air coming out the side where the HS is, it's probably hitting full speed, these fans are not very powerful. I would check for TIM coverage and see how hot the end section, where the fan blows through and see how hot it gets when the PC is on, if it does not get hot it could be that the heatpipe has/had a bad seal and leaked making it useless.
 
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BlueFireIce said:
Both, I had some just not working and some that would not hit full speed, some would pulse on and off etc etc, just duds over all. If you are feeling air coming out the side where the HS is, it's probably hitting full speed, these fans are not very powerful. I would check for TIM coverage and see hot hot the end section, where the fan blows through and see how hot it gets when the PC is on, if it does not get hot it could be that the heatpipe has/had a bad seal and leaked making it useless.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks ill check that when i receive the IC Diamond. So i shutown the laptop before checking the heat lvl of the end Heatsink, or i leave it running? Just wanna make sure.. The temps are changing extremely fast as soon as i turn the laptop on:eek:ff
 
Did the dude just replace the CPU TIM? Last time I went in a laptop there was the normal paste TIM on the CPU and GPU but there was also all sorts of thermal pads that needed to be replaced as well. Another thing I did that helped a lot was basically cut out the air intake grill in front of the fan at the bottom and replaced it with a piece of screen (like from a window, to keep anything too big from getting sucked in), enlarging the air intake area by a factor of 2 to 3. Enlarging the air intake will probably give you the biggest drop in temps as those things are normally horribly constricted.
 
You would have it off and take whatever off you need to be able to access the HS, then turn the laptop on and let it warm up to get a feeling. At those temps, even the end of the HS should be very, very warm.
 
-Dragon- said:
Did the dude just replace the CPU TIM? Last time I went in a laptop there was the normal paste TIM on the CPU and GPU but there was also all sorts of thermal pads that needed to be replaced as well. Another thing I did that helped a lot was basically cut out the air intake grill in front of the fan at the bottom and replaced it with a piece of screen (like from a window, to keep anything too big from getting sucked in), enlarging the air intake area by a factor of 2 to 3. Enlarging the air intake will probably give you the biggest drop in temps as those things are normally horribly constricted.
Click to expand...

Thermal pads ? There was no such thing as thermal pad anywhere.. He applied the thermal paste on both the heatsink and cpu and put back HS straight in place but no thermal pad anywhere. As for gpu. I think he did change it too but still no pad there (as you can see in the gpu pic, the gpu is covered with a transparent plastic film, not sure what it is and why there's none on the cpu... Anyway. Thats a lot of question at same time. Take a look and take your time to reply. Thanks again !
Take a look at all the pic I took from his job, maybe you'll be able to spot something..
https://www.dropbox.com/s/42waea6ufqxoym0/2013-05-24 17.30.02.jpg?v=0mcns
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r56okgz3vvhylwq/2013-05-24 17.30.19.jpg?v=0mcns
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bdmalfvz9ux5irl/2013-05-24 17.30.38.jpg?v=0mcns
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hiedplv2ho0xyw3/2013-05-24 17.30.50.jpg?v=0mcns
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6z3f6pin861h4d/2013-05-24 17.31.22.jpg?v=0mcns

(you'll notice one of the picture show some part (one of the bridge ?) having not thermal paste on it.. is this normal ?) :
 
Every time you take that heatsink off you have to reapply TIM otherwise you'll get air bubbles in between. And also to me it looks like the guy who applied it used a little too much. Too much is a bad thing, you want just the right amount.
 
I'd clean all the thermal paste yourself, buy a $5 tube (there is some better than others, but for the most part any name brand works fine), and yes the thermal pads as well

redo the paste and replace the pads. The pads can be bought on ebay for a few bucks.

Is the fan spinning properly? sometimes the fans get tired and could be replaced.
 
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hotcrandel said:
I'd clean all the thermal paste yourself, buy a $5 tube (there is some better than others, but for the most part any name brand works fine), and yes the thermal pads as well

redo the paste and replace the pads. The pads can be bought on ebay for a few bucks.

Is the fan spinning properly? sometimes the fans get tired and could be replaced.
Click to expand...

The fan seems to be running fine. But how should I know if it runs fast enough ?
The Toshiba Health Monitor app say it runs at 90% .. but who the hell would trust such dirtwares like that.. anyway I'll pretend the fan is fine.

I just purchased some IC Diamound TIM on ebay (BUT DAMN I FORGOT TO GET SOME PADS)
you think I can get some thermal pad locally or is it mostly on ebay and different for each specific laptop models ?


I'll make sure the HS is not broke too when opening the laptop after some high loads. (I guess I just have to look at the copper to see if it's hot ?

Thanks
 
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I know you said you checked the heat sinks but I would check again just to clear yourself of any chance its a tightly Jammed/stuck dust bunny in there blocking airflow. Good luck!
 
You buy the pads as a big sheet then cut it to size, when I re-did my dads laptop I couldn't find thick enough pads for some of the chips (RAM I think) so had to double up on those chips. Generally the chips with pads don't generate too much heat but they do need some cooling and applying your own pads tends to be way better than what was there to begin with even if you do have to double up. Just get the highest thermally conductive pads you can find.
 
-Dragon- said:
You buy the pads as a big sheet then cut it to size, when I re-did my dads laptop I couldn't find thick enough pads for some of the chips (RAM I think) so had to double up on those chips. Generally the chips with pads don't generate too much heat but they do need some cooling and applying your own pads tends to be way better than what was there to begin with even if you do have to double up. Just get the highest thermally conductive pads you can find.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure to understand where to put all the pads... you mention RAM chips ?
can you tell me where should I put em ?

Also, from my earlier post, you'll see a picture of some chips on which there is no TIM at all... (the south or north bridge I guess). I've heard somewhere that there should be some TIM put on that too.. is that true ?
pic:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6z3f6pin861h4d/2013-05-24 17.31.22.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bywxkdv3hu37co/2013-05-24 17.31.19.jpg
 
When you took the heatsinks off you should have seen the pads, white or grey normally, maybe 1/16th inch thick possibly a few as much as 1/8th inch thick, you have to replace those wherever they are
 
hardforummarc said:
I'm not sure to understand where to put all the pads... you mention RAM chips ?
can you tell me where should I put em ?

Also, from my earlier post, you'll see a picture of some chips on which there is no TIM at all... (the south or north bridge I guess). I've heard somewhere that there should be some TIM put on that too.. is that true ?
pic:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6z3f6pin861h4d/2013-05-24 17.31.22.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bywxkdv3hu37co/2013-05-24 17.31.19.jpg
Click to expand...

Anobody have an answer for my question above ?
 
Ok so ive done some test and repaced new thermal paste (IC Diamond 7) and foind out that my heatsink Is actually not conducting heat all the way to the rad, it has warm/cold copper just at the end where it should still be very hot. The rad not receiving any heat at all make it useless

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uswkzt1qskmcudk/2013-06-16 20.17.23.jpg <--(not my actual heatsink) <--(not my actual heatsink)
The picture is showing the exact same problem im having (warm-cold copper at end just before radiator)
 
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Well considering how heat pipes work, that being the heat is actually carried primarily via the latent heat of vaporization of the gas flowing through the center and the liquid is transferred back to the hot area via capillary action on the porous outer walls of the tube, the outer part of the tube should be relatively cool.
 
-Dragon- said:
Well considering how heat pipes work, that being the heat is actually carried primarily via the latent heat of vaporization of the gas flowing through the center and the liquid is transferred back to the hot area via capillary action on the porous outer walls of the tube, the outer part of the tube should be relatively cool.
Click to expand...

But the goal of the copper is to transfert the heat to the radiator , which can then be evacuated.. I dont see why the heat would be super hot and then cold before even reaching his goal ?
 
No the goal of the copper is to transfer the heat to and from the internal fluid, the fluid does the actual heat transfer.
 
-Dragon- said:
No the goal of the copper is to transfer the heat to and from the internal fluid, the fluid does the actual heat transfer.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks
So its not my heatsink...
I noticed also that in the middle of the heatsink, the copper is belly (bigger). Is this normal or could this be a sign of break?
 
Heat tubes can be manipulated into pretty much any shape so long as there's a small channel inside for the gasified fluid to flow, and are extremely unlikely to fail unless subjected to some sort physical stress. Additionally most tubes are under a vacuum lowering the fluids boiling point to a more useful temperature so any sort of break would raise internal pressure causing the fluid to boil at a much higher temperature and would render the internal fluid heat transfer inoperable causing the heat pipe to act as a simple copper conductor. The fact that it feels cool next to the heat source would indicate it is intact and functional.
 
Have you checked to see if there is an available bios update for your laptop? This sounds suspiciously like the fan isn't spinning up. You've verified airflow?
 
Jorona said:
Have you checked to see if there is an available bios update for your laptop? This sounds suspiciously like the fan isn't spinning up. You've verified airflow?
Click to expand...

I wish there was but Toshiba don't update anymore their drivers for this 2011 specific model. Also, the official Phoenix Bios driver update page redirect to some junkware driver update software (Driver Agent)...

My Bios is 2.30 . I got it from Toshiba and this is the lastest version available there (released in February 2012.
(click the driver tab) -> http://support.toshiba.ca/support/i...otebook&s2=Satellite&s3=A660&s4=PSAW3C-042017
 
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-Dragon- said:
The fact that it feels cool next to the heat source would indicate it is intact and functional.
Click to expand...

What is the radiator (end part of heatsink, plugged to the fan) for if no heat is to be reaching it? I'm a little bit confused because some ppl say it's normal some say it's not.
Dragon, since I know you read thread from start, you know pretty much all the troubleshoot ive tried so far. Since you think that the heatsink is not the culprit either, what would be your own hypothesis/conclusion/solution ?

Picture of the issue, for those who didn't read the thread from start: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uswkzt1qskmcudk/2013-06-16 20.17.23.jpg <--(not my actual heatsink)
 
Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe

The copper is NOT the heat conductor in a heat pipe. Heat pipes contain a working fluid, generally either water or some form of alcohol under a vacuum. It takes far more energy to evaporate a liquid into a gas at the same temperature than it does to change the temperature of either phase by just one degree. Heat pipes basically boil a fluid at the hot end, the gas then travels down the hollow center to the cold end where it is condensed back into a liquid which then flows back to the hot end via capillary action through porous material lining the inside of the shell. The reason you can't feel it being hot is because due to the LHV it's not nearly as hot as it would have to be to transfer the heat via conduction and the hot part is actually inside the pipe and the outside of the pipe up to the hot place is actually cooled by the returning liquid.

That tube isn't a solid copper conducting tube and will not act like it. Every problem you describe with it only goes to show that it's actually operating 100% correctly.
 
And I'm honestly not 100% sure where you are at this point. Is the fan operating and blowing at least warm air? If the heat tube isn't working then it would definitely be hotter closer to the CPU, if it is working the temperature should be fairly consistent across the length of the tube as the thermal conductivity of a heat pipe is around 100x higher than that of copper alone. Since laptops are horrible to work with I'd still suspect poor mounting, if you replaced thermal pads maybe you used ones too thick, inadequate airflow due to constrictive intake.
 
-Dragon- said:
And I'm honestly not 100% sure where you are at this point. Is the fan operating and blowing at least warm air? If the heat tube isn't working then it would definitely be hotter closer to the CPU, if it is working the temperature should be fairly consistent across the length of the tube as the thermal conductivity of a heat pipe is around 100x higher than that of copper alone. Since laptops are horrible to work with I'd still suspect poor mounting, if you replaced thermal pads maybe you used ones too thick, inadequate airflow due to constrictive intake.
Click to expand...

Thx for detailed explication Dragon.
Well right now im trying for almost a week, to get compatibility confirmation for my heatsink. Called toshiba, they didnt know. Called 10000x computer shop... All had the safe bet answer : "it might fit, it might not)

My Heatsink part# is AT0CX0040R0 DXON 0A 105K

There's a AT0CX0040R0 DXON 0A 109D and couple more 0A #### sold on ebay and i just want ro know if they would fit fine cuz they look exact same as mine and part # is very similar (most coming from A665 models)
I can't find any 0A 105K, only 109D

Like this one:
ebay.com/itm/111101383505

NB: sorry its a mess writing post on a phone...)
 
I still don't think there's anything wrong with your existing heat sink by what you've described and unless you can find the identical part number there's no guarantee that all of the necessary components will line up.
 
-Dragon- said:
I still don't think there's anything wrong with your existing heat sink by what you've described and unless you can find the identical part number there's no guarantee that all of the necessary components will line up.
Click to expand...

Then lets say my heatsink is not the culprit, dust neither, thermal paste neither (applied 2 time) then whats left? Could sensor be broke?
The bottom of laptop when it shutdown is extremely hot, to the point of burning hands

Damn i about to throw the shit out
 
What about the thermal pads did you ever replace those? VRMs and other MB components need cooling too
 
Thermal pad? No i didnt juste paste. VRM and MD ? Im not advanced enough to know the terms sorry what are they
 
BlueFireIce said:
Looks to be another one on the bottom as well.

As others said, that's a bit much TIM on there, you don't need much, just enough to cover the whole contact area.
Click to expand...
We've told you multiple times, those pads, they need replacing as well. Read the first page again. VRM= voltage regulator modules, MB = mother board.
 
I wanted to wait for the new part before reassembling the laptop, i would have replaced the pads in the meantime... But you think the old pads only may be be what causes such an aggressive and suddent overheating?


Thnks
 
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Honestly it doesn't sound like you really know what you're doing in there, laptop cooling isn't desktop cooling, doesn't really sound like the guy you took it too really knew what he was doing with it either. You need proper paste on both the CPU and GPU and thermal pads on whatever other components had thermal pads on them and they all need to be properly seated or you get the problems you seem to be getting. Bad thermal pads shouldn't cause 100C CPU temps (I assume you meant 100C earlier), but they could still cause instability and crashes, and just because screws are tight doesn't mean they're properly aligned, if something is slightly off you might have an air gap and be tightening down on a wedge of some sort.
 
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