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Overclocking the Mac Mini

M

mwarps

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 6, 2002
Messages
7,072
Greetings,

I am an avid overclocker and an adding (not switching) PC user.
I am wondering if anyone has any data on how to overclock the Mini and the results thereof.
I will probably be integrating the Mini into another case and watercooling it.

Thanks in advance for any info or ideas!

EDIT Jan-28-2005:

I am taking the mini out of its case. I am putting it into another container. The type of which will be revealed when the mods occur. Please stop threadcrapping about keeping the bloody Mini in its bloody case, and how it makes no sense to take it out. You will see why it will make sense if you are patient.
 
I really don't think that there is any way to do this. Why watercool it? It is already nearly silent.
 
mwarps said:
Greetings,

I am an avid overclocker and an adding (not switching) PC user.
I am wondering if anyone has any data on how to overclock the Mini and the results thereof.
I will probably be integrating the Mini into another case and watercooling it.

Thanks in advance for any info or ideas!
Click to expand...

Why? That makes like no sense... Whatever floats your boat though, I guess.
 
RS3RS said:
Why? That makes like no sense... Whatever floats your boat though, I guess.
Click to expand...

Why overclock or why watercool?

Watercooling I would do only if I could overclock it.

Why overclock it? Why *not* overclock it? It makes perfect sense. It's cheap. It's comparatively underpowered (performance). It's exceedingly low-power (electrical). My PCs are overclocked, chip, RAM and vid. It's the way I do things. From where I sit, it's just begging for some extra juice and a few more MHz.

OR are you referring to why integrate it with another machine.. That.. well, it floats my boat.
 
usually the only way to OC a Mac is to do some "resistor surgery" and increase the bus speed...in most cases you just won't do it to a Mac
 
Clownboat said:
??? The case is pretty much the only reason to buy it.
Click to expand...

Most of the people in this forum would disagree.

gigglebyte said:
usually the only way to OC a Mac is to do some "resistor surgery" and increase the bus speed...in most cases you just won't do it to a Mac
Click to expand...

I was thinking it would come down to that. I wouldn't do it to a normal mac, as they're too expensive to risk damaging, but this one isn't, hence why I'm looking at buying it.
 
My G4 is overclocked. Its not as hard as you'd think.

someone will need to do some in-hand analysis with a mac mini. I dont see why apple would make it hard intentionally. The thing is, its so highly integrated it will be harder anyway.
 
If you can do it go ahead, but just so you know that proc might be 1.6ghz but its about equal to like a 2.0ghz P4, performance wise.

Edit --> Oh and also take in mind that OSX is unix based and is backasswards when your a veteran PC user, its much differant than windows.
 
If you look at the internals I think the CPUs cooled by a thermal pad between it and the top of the case. I don't think it will OC much with that. You would have to cool it alot better. Also why do you want to over clock it?
 
Ety said:
If you look at the internals I think the CPUs cooled by a thermal pad between it and the top of the case. I don't think it will OC much with that. You would have to cool it alot better. Also why do you want to over clock it?
Click to expand...

Its the 9200 that has the thermal pad. The CPU has a (small) heatsink and fan.
 
Why not overclock! The lack of customizibility is what has been killing apple for a long time. I pay for it I want to tinker with it.
 
I want to ask again why overclock it? What reason do you need the extra perfomance besides to say you did. Not like you'll be playing tons of games on the Mac Mini, and does a couple seconds off a filter in Photoshop really worth the trouble of messing with a perfect machine? If it was a tower with normal cooling or any regular PC, go ahead, it's easy, but why mess with such a specially designed machine.
 
To say why overclock it is like asking why overclock anything. I mean do you really need to overclock the top of the line video card? People like pushing the envelope on things. It is the same with people tweaking cars for extra hp. I would have to think you couldn't push the chips much faster but then again look what people have done with the emacs.
 
would you overclock a laptop? no.. why? because it was all designed to work together.. that mac mini was designed to disipate a certain amount of heat, and i am sure you can get 10% more out of it.. or even more.. but, unless you are putting it in another case.. or modifying the cooling then i wouldn't do it..

you are still limited to 1 ram slot, not quite integrated, but yes, integrated video.. just go for it.. but at the same time it is like trying to oc a dell, or an intel motherboard.. how are you going to do it? you have to replace a lot of stuff... my hope is that the mini will drive down the price of used G4s on ebay.. you could pick up a nice g4 with the memory capabilities, agp slot, larger motherboard, and already an awesome case that just needs some modding...

i say go for it.. post pictures.. i would like to see what can be done.. and you can send the empty case to me.. i will find something cool to do with it..
 
Wrench00 said:
Why not overclock! The lack of customizibility is what has been killing apple for a long time. I pay for it I want to tinker with it.
Click to expand...

Sure, there are some hardware nerds who refuse to buy Apples simply because they can't overclock it by a mile and a half, throw a dozen custom parts in it and add neon lights and lava lamps, but that is NOT the reason Apple doesn't rule the world.


Now, as for the overclocking etc... Why would you overclock the Mac mini? You won't get more than a couple of hundred megahertz more out of it, at best. I fully understand the whole "push the envelope"-mentality, but if that's what you want to do, why on earth are you getting a Mac mini? Buy yourself an MDD on Ebay instead, and overclock that! Add liquid cooling to that instead of butchering the Mac mini's case!
 
because you'd be hardcore? Someone who can overclock without a softmenu?
because it requires brains, a steady hand, and balls?
Because youd have the fastest mac mini on earth?

Those are pretty good reasons to me... the theme of this site and forum have this specific thing... just because the apple forum is sort of a bastard child doesnt mean we cant entertain the same ideas the rest of the site does.
 
Methodical said:
because you'd be hardcore? Someone who can overclock without a softmenu?
because it requires brains, a steady hand, and balls?
Because youd have the fastest mac mini on earth?

Those are pretty good reasons to me... the theme of this site and forum have this specific thing... just because the apple forum is sort of a bastard child doesnt mean we cant entertain the same ideas the rest of the site does.
Click to expand...

This debate is on the Mac Mini, not all Macs. You can overclock it, but it has such a specifically designed cooling system to fit in the small case that it might not be a good idea, sort of like with laptops. Or you can say it's like overclocking with a standard cheap retail heatsink that you can't change no matter what, so it's not going to do much. And because of that why risk or change the machine for such a low gain?

Fastest Mac Mini, what will your bragging rights be? Will you brag about Photoshop finishing a filter 2 seconds faster, that a browser loads a split second quicker, and it's not a gaming machine so no point in gains there.

And if you open the case and do some odd modifications with a large heatsink or watercooling system you won't be able to close it anymore, so how then can you call it the fastest Mac Mini if it's no longer one, especially if you put it in another "larger" case.

If it was a full G4 or G5 tower with stronger watercooling, then I see no reason not to try to overclocking it, you might gain some decent speed and not put stress on other parts near the heat.

Now if you ordered for the low price to get into Macs don't care about the small size and would reassemble it into another case with better cooling to overclock, fine, I can understand that, just remember not to call it a Mac Mini anymore.

Still, what I don't understand is why one would want to ruin such a pefect design for small gains that would have little use for what this particular Mac can do or is meant to, and it's not like it's a gaming machine where you're trying to push every part for extra points in a benchmark.

It's hard to explain. Imagine if someone bought a nice new Porche, but he wanted to improve the horsepower of the engine by adding a part, but there's no room. So he takes the engine out and put's it in a junker that has room for that part for a 10% gain. Now the Porche has lost it's meaning without it's original body. Sorta of like the Mac Mini, owning such a small machine is what the Mac Mini is all about. If you take it out and put it in something else to get that little gain, then it's just becomes an older G4 with a little overclocking, not much to be proud of there.

Think about it
 
TimothyB said:
Still, what I don't understand is why one would want to ruin such a pefect design for small gains that would have little use for what this particular Mac can do or is meant to, and it's not like it's a gaming machine where you're trying to push every part for extra points in a benchmark.

Think about it
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
I dont agree.( with Methodical's last post ) What makes a mac better is the ease of producing cool stuff with it. The faster you can produce said cool stuff, the better it is. That's mostly brought about by OS X and better apps. Very few in the mac world would be impressed by his OC'ing and watercooling - becuase they would consider it a waste of a perfectly good mac mini. I might feel different if he was talking about a regular G4 towar, but a mini?

This is one of those things that just does not permute across the great divide. The mini will never be a FPS machine, and thats not what's it's designed for. He wants to apply what made him cool in the PC world to the mac, but thats not where it's at. If he wants to be cool in the mac world, he should use that mini to make something cool. The mini is cool AS IT IS.

If he does it, I wont think he's l337, I'll think he's odd
 
TimothyB said:
This debate is on the Mac Mini, not all Macs. You can overclock it, but it has such a specifically designed cooling system to fit in the small case that it might not be a good idea, sort of like with laptops. Or you can say it's like overclocking with a standard cheap retail heatsink that you can't change no matter what, so it's not going to do much. And because of that why risk or change the machine for such a low gain?

Fastest Mac Mini, what will your bragging rights be? Will you brag about Photoshop finishing a filter 2 seconds faster, that a browser loads a split second quicker, and it's not a gaming machine so no point in gains there.

And if you open the case and do some odd modifications with a large heatsink or watercooling system you won't be able to close it anymore, so how then can you call it the fastest Mac Mini if it's no longer one, especially if you put it in another "larger" case.

If it was a full G4 or G5 tower with stronger watercooling, then I see no reason not to try to overclocking it, you might gain some decent speed and not put stress on other parts near the heat.

Now if you ordered for the low price to get into Macs don't care about the small size and would reassemble it into another case with better cooling to overclock, fine, I can understand that, just remember not to call it a Mac Mini anymore.

Still, what I don't understand is why one would want to ruin such a pefect design for small gains that would have little use for what this particular Mac can do or is meant to, and it's not like it's a gaming machine where you're trying to push every part for extra points in a benchmark.

Think about it
Click to expand...
I agree with both sides, however if he wants to blow away $500 thats fine with me, all i ask is if he destroys the thing that he document what he did so no one else ends up doing the same thing.
If he wants to venture into the unknown, all i ask is he document his journey to the rest of us. :D
 
I added an extra paragraph to my already large post with a descent comparison
 
Remember where we are guys....

[H]ard|OCP... that's reason enough to overclock it.

Hell, I used to overclock 386's back in the day when an 8Mhz increase was unheard of.
Now people get all pissy because they can't squeeze out 300 more Mhz.

I'm on Methodical's side here. Do it to do it.

Hell, I want to install a mac mini into the glove box on my 1988 Cutlass Calais. Sans fancy case, because it doesn't match the maroon plush interior. :D
 
Methodical said:
because you'd be hardcore? Someone who can overclock without a softmenu?
because it requires brains, a steady hand, and balls?
Because youd have the fastest mac mini on earth?

Those are pretty good reasons to me... the theme of this site and forum have this specific thing... just because the apple forum is sort of a bastard child doesnt mean we cant entertain the same ideas the rest of the site does.
Click to expand...

Bellisimo, Methodical.

Thank God not all Mac users are like the non-enthusiats in this forum. My roommate here at college, who is Apple to the Core :D is the one who convinced me to get the Mini in the first place and to overclock it.

Please READ: Go back, read my original post. It's more than obvious it's not been read, or people are a little confused about overclocking. Watercooling. Takes the heat away. *twitch* To the credit of the G4, it most likely will not NEED watercooling, but I will do it anyway, if I can fit it into its new home.

To the naysayers: You are not [H]ard. You make me sad. We are here to tweak, bash, hack and rock out. So far, you are the most illogical bunch I have ever seen. You are given high end hardware, but have to pay out the ass for it. The pico-second you are given low-end hardware with great potential, you have no interest in squeezing the nectar from it, and look down upon those would dare tresspass into your holy temple of hardware like it's some sort of sin to not be stuck with something that isn't as fast as possible.

As far as not being 1337 in the mac community? I'm not in the mac community. I'm a PC user who wants a cool toy. The empty shell? Maybe I'll just sell it to some poor hapless user who broke theirs because they didn't buy the putty knife.

KaosDG, anodize that fscker RED and stick in in your glovie.. maybe trade out the white plexi for some red Lexan?

Unless you have data relevant to overclocking the mini, stop crapping on my thread.
 
KaosDG said:
Remember where we are guys....

[H]ard|OCP... that's reason enough to overclock it.

Hell, I used to overclock 386's back in the day when an 8Mhz increase was unheard of.
Now people get all pissy because they can't squeeze out 300 more Mhz.
Click to expand...

See, the thing is... If you have to remove the mini from its case, it's no longer a mini. See the comparison to the Porche. I've overclocked Macs. I got an extra 100MHz out of my blue/white PowerMac, and it was definitely worth the effort. If you can get your mini up to, say, 1.5GHz or something such, without modifying the hardware, go for it! But if you have to put it in a larger case, add water cooling, etc etc etc, you're just throwing a perfectly good mini down the drain. Get a dual G4 (or old *Book if you want a small footprint) on Ebay if you want to do something like that. They probably overclock more easily.
 
Black Morty Rackham said:
See, the thing is... If you have to remove the mini from its case, it's no longer a mini. See the comparison to the Porche. I've overclocked Macs. I got an extra 100MHz out of my blue/white PowerMac, and it was definitely worth the effort. If you can get your mini up to, say, 1.5GHz or something such, without modifying the hardware, go for it! But if you have to put it in a larger case, add water cooling, etc etc etc, you're just throwing a perfectly good mini down the drain. Get a dual G4 (or old *Book if you want a small footprint) on Ebay if you want to do something like that. They probably overclock more easily.
Click to expand...

Well this is where things get iffy.
You may not *need* to take the mini out of its case to overclock it... it may run just fine with it's current heat dissipation methods. We simply don't know yet.

How many people mod their cases now? Simply to make them unique, or to add more airflow... or just do something "wild"?

Where's the fun in just buying something to have it sit there and be like the masses?
That's one reason why I like Macs, because they never looked like the plain ol' beige boxes.

That's also a reason why I'm a modder, because "slightly unique" isn't enough for me.

Who cares about the porsche? Everyone knows Mac users drive VW Beetles ;)
 
are you [h]ard enough to machine a custom waterblock for the mini? or to build a custom block mount because there are no holes on the mini logic board for you to add a pre-made waterblock?

go get your mini, take it apart, come in here, post your worklog, and show us :) i would honestly LOVE to see a worklog on that.

there isnt enough clearance between the processor and hard drive/optical drive to even use one of the vga-type waterblocks.

ive watercooled a dozen PCs in my day, but watercooling the mini just doesnt make sense to me :) buy a sawtooth g4, and watercool that bitch, that would be way more fun, in my opinion.
 
Garage81 said:
are you [h]ard enough to machine a custom waterblock for the mini? or to build a custom block mount because there are no holes on the mini logic board for you to add a pre-made waterblock?

go get your mini, take it apart, come in here, post your worklog, and show us :) i would honestly LOVE to see a worklog on that.

there isnt enough clearance between the processor and hard drive/optical drive to even use one of the vga-type waterblocks.

ive watercooled a dozen PCs in my day, but watercooling the mini just doesnt make sense to me :) buy a sawtooth g4, and watercool that bitch, that would be way more fun, in my opinion.
Click to expand...


I forget which system it is, maybe dreamcast that uses a liquid cooled heat transfer block.

It's pretty thin. It just may work
 
If he used that mini to make a 15 minute short film on how to OC mac mini's.....

My PC is where I get my rocks off for that sort of thing. I would no more try to OC my G5 than cut my left nad off. I depend on the G5, and I dont have the luxury of buying another if I cook something.

Oh well, good luck - I dont see it, but I'm not you and variety is good. :D
 
Garage81 said:
are you [h]ard enough to machine a custom waterblock for the mini? or to build a custom block mount because there are no holes on the mini logic board for you to add a pre-made waterblock?

go get your mini, take it apart, come in here, post your worklog, and show us :) i would honestly LOVE to see a worklog on that.

there isnt enough clearance between the processor and hard drive/optical drive to even use one of the vga-type waterblocks.

ive watercooled a dozen PCs in my day, but watercooling the mini just doesnt make sense to me :) buy a sawtooth g4, and watercool that bitch, that would be way more fun, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I'd love to show you a worklog, but please learn how to read first. Mini Case? Not using it. The machine is being put inside something else. For the third time.

This is early planning stage. Expect to see something real in March.
 
mwarps said:
I'd love to show you a worklog, but please learn how to read first. Mini Case? Not using it. The machine is being put inside something else. For the third time.

This is early planning stage. Expect to see something real in March.
Click to expand...

honestly, i think youd have more fun with a sawtooth G4 and the cpu upgrade boards you can buy for them. seems you could get more out of a system like that by overclocking.

theres a thread on this over at macnn already:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243130

might be a good reference. theres some [h]ard mac heads over on that forum.
 
This will be pretty cool to see. I wouldnt do it to mine, but here is some info to get started with.
motherboard overview:
http://www.mini-itx.com/news/13909018/
eMac overclock:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=53733
The freescale 7447A processor data sheet (go to page 33 for PLL configuration):
http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7447AEC.pdf

I dont have access to a mini or a high res image so if anyone figures out where the PLL traces on the board are let us know!

And the mini mobo does have mounting holes for the heatsink.
 
Brett13 said:
This will be pretty cool to see. I wouldnt do it to mine, but here is some info to get started with.
eMac overclock:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=53733
The freescale 7447A processor data sheet (go to page 33 for PLL configuration):
http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7447AEC.pdf

I dont have access to a mini or a high res image so if anyone figures out where the PLL traces on the board are let us know!
Click to expand...


Here's the best image i'veseen so far...

http://www.macnews.de/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=518&fullsize=1
 
Garage81 said:
you are going to put it in something else, i gathered that. you can extend the hard drive and optical drive cables, i inferred that. how do you plan to attach the waterblock? please, learn how to read first the pictures of the mini's logic board show no available space around the cpu to drill for a mounting bracket.
Click to expand...

KaosDG said:
Here's the best image i'veseen so far...

http://www.macnews.de/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=518&fullsize=1
Click to expand...

I don't know a whole lot about watercooling, but that image shows mounting holes. Couldn't you use those?
 
KaosDG said:
Well this is where things get iffy.
You may not *need* to take the mini out of its case to overclock it... it may run just fine with it's current heat dissipation methods. We simply don't know yet.

How many people mod their cases now? Simply to make them unique, or to add more airflow... or just do something "wild"?

Where's the fun in just buying something to have it sit there and be like the masses?
That's one reason why I like Macs, because they never looked like the plain ol' beige boxes.

That's also a reason why I'm a modder, because "slightly unique" isn't enough for me.

Who cares about the porsche? Everyone knows Mac users drive VW Beetles ;)
Click to expand...

Well, if you can leave it small, silent and sexy, why not overclock it? I see no harm in doing so. It's when people start to talk about putting them in different cases I start to question the logic... ;)

One mod I could definitely stand seeing, though, is putting one in the 51/4" bays of a bigger computer. That would be awesome.

About being different... Quite frankly, I don't see the point of being different (or rather, having a different-looking computer) for its own sake. The Mac mini is in my opinion the best looking computer ever, and little or nothing could be done to improve it and still maintain its functionality. But to each his own, I guess.

And I bike everywhere I go. :p
 
[PREFACE] I know you aren't going to keep the case [/PREFACE] but I think it would be cool to see a clear case on the mini...not just a window but a clear case so you could see the guts...I am also curious if it would be possible to stuff the mini in a bay in a PC case....route all appropriate cables out of site and you would be rockin! currently I think if I get one for myself I will be mounting under my desk below my XPC
 
Well hey, I think that this is a cool idea. If you don't tinker with something, you'll never know what you can do with it. So rock on, dude, I look forward to your worklog.
 
I look forward to whatever you come up with. Cool idea.

I would really like to see someone put a PC in the mini mac case. tho. :D
 
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