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Overclocking Advice

K

kawai

n00b
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
34
Hello I would like some advice into helping my e8400 hit 4.0ghz

Here are my specs

GA-EP45-DS3R
E8400
Xigmatek HDT s1283
2x2gb DDR2 800 RAM OCZ2G8004GK

So currently I have my system running at 430 x 9.0 MHz for a clock of 3.87GHz. I was wondering if anyone could help me in reaching 4.0GHz.

I currently have my bios settings to c1e and eist turned off. I set the CPU vcore to 1.3625V to stay within Intel's recommended specs. The timings of my memory are set as recommended at 5 5 5 18 and @ 2.0V. I want to get to 4.0Ghz but would like to keep my vcore at 1.3625v max.

Temperatures are currently at around 35/36 idle at this clock, reported by realtemp 2.70.
 
Which vcore reading should i follow? the one set in bios or the CPUZ/speedfan one that read the same? Because of vdroop my cpuz reads @ 1.3120 when i set the vcore to 1.3625 in BIOS. Should I raise vcore setting in bios to get cpuz to read vcore 1.3625 and then up fsb?
 
1.4V was the max voltage for 45nm Intel CPUIs IIRC. So you still have a bit of headroom when it comes to the vCore.

Also, up your FSB and MCH Overvoltage Control if you haven't already.

Just follow the BIOS to err on the side of caution.
 
idle temps look good, although e8400 is known to show unreliable idle temps. my e8400 maxes out at about 60c at load using realtemp. you would think that the heatsink would be fairly hot at this temp but it's only moderately warm to the touch. e8400 = unreliable temp sensors.

if your mobo has a vdroop remove option in the bios, enable that. i'm not sure what it would be called but some boards have this option. google your mobo name and vdroop for more info.

but that vdroop is most likely limiting your OC at that voltage.
 
oh, one more thing...

is the posted voltage via CPU-Z at idle or load? the initial voltage drop from bios to what it reads on CPU-Z is known as vdrop or voffset. vdroop is the difference between idle and load volts. if what you posted is idle cpu voltage, your load voltage will most likely be even lower, which will more than likely affect your potential OC.
 
hdnut said:
if your mobo has a vdroop remove option in the bios, enable that. i'm not sure what it would be called but some boards have this option. google your mobo name and vdroop for more info.
Click to expand...

This is a bad idea. Vdroop exists in order to prevent the voltage from spiking to dangerous levels when the CPU is loaded. When Vdroop is removed, the idle voltage is increased, which causes the voltage to spike into dangerous levels when load is applied, and that could cause potential damage. I read an article a while back that did some testing with this feature on a board (I believe it was Anandtech, but it could have been somewhere else), and they observed this behaviour while monitoring the voltage of a CPU and varying the load.
 
Zero82z said:
This is a bad idea. Vdroop exists in order to prevent the voltage from spiking to dangerous levels when the CPU is loaded. When Vdroop is removed, the idle voltage is increased, which causes the voltage to spike into dangerous levels when load is applied, and that could cause potential damage. I read an article a while back that did some testing with this feature on a board (I believe it was Anandtech, but it could have been somewhere else), and they observed this behaviour while monitoring the voltage of a CPU and varying the load.
Click to expand...

If vcore vdroop is controlled right, IE a pencil mod, you won't get spiking unless you did it wrong.

Also Anandtech is useless for most reliable information. BUT I agree a bios option to remove vdroop is lame.
 
Zero82z said:
This is a bad idea. Vdroop exists in order to prevent the voltage from spiking to dangerous levels when the CPU is loaded. When Vdroop is removed, the idle voltage is increased, which causes the voltage to spike into dangerous levels when load is applied, and that could cause potential damage. I read an article a while back that did some testing with this feature on a board (I believe it was Anandtech, but it could have been somewhere else), and they observed this behaviour while monitoring the voltage of a CPU and varying the load.
Click to expand...

My P5Q-E has some vdroop control and it works perfectly fine. The idle voltage is actually below what I set it at and at load and the voltage stabilizes at what I set it at in my BIOS.
 
thebeephaha said:
BUT I agree a bios option to remove vdroop is lame.
Click to expand...

one step at a time. if he has the option of enabling it in bios, he should try that first. if it doesn't work, then he can try the mod, if he is up for it. i personally have performed the mod and it has worked perfectly. this theoretical damage caused by voltage spikes has not killed my e8400. running this chip 24/7 at 4.02ghz on 1.37v since march.

Zero82z said:
This is a bad idea...
Click to expand...

are you talking from experience or is your opinion based on that one article? the anandtech article was pretty much based on theoretical understanding of what vdroop is and does. unfortunately, they did not perform any thorough testing to support their argument. according to the article, it was observed on one intel quad core, one time. and no, the quad core did not die.

anytime you try to achieve a very high OC, you are most likely going to apply voltages that is not recommended or close to it. this in itself puts your component at risk for possible damage or failure. key word is here is "possible".

there's no glory unless you take some calculated risks, especially with OC'ing. does the risk outweigh the cons? only you can decide what you're willing to do to get the most out of your system, right now and not later. if you are one of those people who runs everything at stock and hopes that your system lasts for 10 years, well, good on ya. some people actually like to push their system to obtain the best possible overclock KNOWING that increased voltages MAY (may not) reduce the life of some hardware on their system.
 
Couldn't boot up stable at 4.0 GHz with my vcore in bios set to 1.40625v where it read 1.360 in CPUZ at idle...Should i try to relax timings or provide more voltage to NB/ DRAM?
 
OK got it to boot up stable at 4.0GHz but i had to raise vcore to 1.408 in bios which reads 1.344/1.360/1.375 in CPU-Z. I might just stick with this and try stressing it from here. I didn't touch many of the other settings like MCH Core which is the northbridge voltage, I left those to auto. Memory is still running at the reccomended timings and voltage from the manufacturer.

The current temps are around 35-39 at idle . ill try out a game (TF2) and see how high it jumps
 
is your memory linked to your fsb? what speed is your ram currently at? if you can unlink the ram from the fsb, do so if you haven't already and set it to 800mhz. if not, make sure it is using 1:1 divider. at 4ghz, this should give you 888mhz for your ddr2, if you're running 9x multi. your current voltage of 2.0 "should" be fine at this speed for your ram.

you can try to raise the NB voltage by .1 or .2, but i don't think doing so will help in your situation. you have a huge vdrop of .05v, if what you're stating is true, which is probably the reason why your overclock is unstable even at 1.40625v. your idle voltage of 1.360v will most likely be even lower during load due to vdroop, which makes the OC even more unstable.

for reference, i have set in bios 1.38v and it shows up as 1.37v in cpu-z and it does not change during load.

vdroop is the enemy when it comes to OCing these chips. another reason why almost all the new enthusiast mobos have the option to disable vdroop in bios.
 
Yeah its definately something with my ram that is making my clock unstable. Im no longer getting BSOD but crashing out of games and failing prime tests

The message i get is "FATAL ERROR: Rounding was 0.5, expected less than 0.4 when i'm clocked that high. I get it around the 4th test under 10 minutes lol.
 
i have a feeling it's not your ram that is causing these instability issues... unless it's being pushed to a frequency that is way too high for its rated speed. it may be your ram but to know for sure, post your ram speed when running at 4ghz.

usually, cpu not getting enough voltage during load = instability.
 
thebeephaha said:
An E8400 can do 4GHz easy... There has to be something else going on.
Click to expand...

not all e8400 can do 4ghz "easy". please refrain from such generalized comment.

it may be his ram but it is too soon to assume as such.
 
Dram Frequency is currently 444.1MHz listed in the CPU-Z tab. Still failing ORTHOS
 
hdnut said:
not all e8400 can do 4ghz "easy". please refrain from such generalized comment.

it may be his ram but it is too soon to assume as such.
Click to expand...

I have not personally used an E8400 that couldn't and I've used quite a few for system builds at work. I suppose its possible there are bad batches but I honestly believe the OP's chip isn't whats holding him back.
 
if you haven't run memtest yet, go to the site below and download the program(it's an iso image), burn it to a cd, then run it during boot. follow the instructions on the website for specifics on how to properly run this program. you shouldn't be getting errors at 444mhz (888mhz ddr2) but i've seen crazier things.

http://www.memtest.org/

i would suggest raising the vcore higher to see if it will stabilize under load(orthos). since you could not boot at 1.40625v, but was successful at 1.408v, you probably need to up the voltage to about 1.41 - 1.42 or even higher. i recommend setting it at 1.43v and run orthos. if it passes at this voltage, lower your vcore down a notch and test again. keep doing this until you begin to see errors in orthos. my guess is that you need to set vcore to about 1.42v in bios to be fully stable.

unfortunately, if it wasn't for your severe vdrop, you wouldn't need to set your initial voltages in bios that high. i'm still curious about your vdroop though. next time you run orthos, have cpu-z running at the same time and report back with the vcore that is shown during the stress test. it should be lower than what the idle vcore is.

*edit - fixed a lame typo
 
So here is an update on what i've achieved.

I decided to push vcore to try for stability at 4.0

My ram is at 5 5 5 18, and running at 2.1v. The strap and ram/fsb ratio I set to 2.00D --> D which is for 400MHz. My ram Frequency is currently at 444.1 MHz. and FSB is at 1776.4MHz

I have increased MCH Core to 1.26V from default 1.100V

With a vcore setting of 1.48750V in BIOS, i Idle at 1.440V upon windows startup according to CPU-Z. The temperature at idling is 39/38. Under load running ORTHOS, i get a vcore reading of 1.408/1.392, and load temps of 58/58. ORTHOS ran for 5minutes before dying on me. I ran orthos earlier on one step lower vcore in bios, and that one ran for 17 minutes.. (strange).

Continuing on,

With a vcore setting of 1.49375V in BIOS, i Idle at 1.440V upon windows start up according to CPU-Z. The temperature at idling is 39/40. Under load running ORTHOS, i get a vcore reading of 1.424/1.408/ and occasionally 1.392, and load temps of 59/60. This ran the longest and passed the most tests at 32minutes under ORTHOS.

I have currently bumped vcore up to 1.5V in bios and I am testing now, i get a reading of 1.456V/1.440V at idle with temperatures of 41/40. My voltage readings at load are around 1.408V/1.424 (occasionally), with temperatures of high 50's max 60degrees but never over.

I think I'm reaching my limits on how far i want to push vcore though, i hear over 1.5v can destroy the chip easily.

It seems to me that the cpu needs always at least 1.4v to run at 4.0 and ORTHOS will error if it drops below this. My plan is to push it as high as it needs then see if i can use c1e and eist to bring down the idle voltage so it wont idle above 1.40.
 
hdnut said:
if you haven't run memtest yet, go to the site below and download the program(it's an iso image), burn it to a cd, then run it during boot. follow the instructions on the website for specifics on how to properly run this program. you shouldn't be getting errors at 444mhz (888mhz ddr2) but i've seen crazier things.

http://www.memtest.org/

i would suggest raising the vcore higher to see if it will stabilize under load(orthos). since you could not boot at 1.40625v, but was successful at 1.408v, you probably need to up the voltage to about 1.41 - 1.42 or even higher. i recommend setting it at 1.43v and run orthos. if it passes at this voltage, lower your vcore down a notch and test again. keep doing this until you begin to see errors in orthos. my guess is that you need to set vcore to about 1.42v in bios to be fully stable.

unfortunately, if it wasn't for your severe vdrop, you wouldn't need to set your initial voltages in bios that high. i'm still curious about your vdroop though. next time you run orthos, have cpu-z running at the same time and report back with the vcore that is shown during the stress test. it should be lower than what the idle vcore is.

*edit - fixed a lame typo
Click to expand...

Mem test passed 100% running at 444.1 frequency
 
well, good to hear your memory is good to go. i figured as much. i recommend running memtest for atleast 5-6 hours to be sure though.

I have currently bumped vcore up to 1.5V in bios and I am testing now, i get a reading of 1.456V/1.440V at idle with temperatures of 41/40. My voltage readings at load are around 1.408V/1.424 (occasionally), with temperatures of high 50's max 60degrees but never over.
Click to expand...

man, that's some bad vdroop. did you find out if your mobo can disable vdroop? almost .1v drop from bios to load. that's huge. also, i wouldn't recommend prolonged testing under these voltages. i have tested my wolfdale at max of 1.43-1.44v shown in cpu-z during load but never for too long.

your temps are very good from what i can tell.

your previous OC of 3.87ghz, was that stable (orthos) at 1.3625v set in bios? if it was, i recommend using that unless you can do something about that vdroop issue by either disabling in bios it or applying the "vdroop mod".

also, it appears that you have an e8400 that's on the upper end of the voltage requirement spectrum. i have read many posts by those who have had this same issue (different forum).

high voltage requirement + bad vdroop = excessive voltage to get to 4ghz stable. not a very good combo and i highly suggest finding the most stable speed while staying near 1.4v (idle) but not over.
 
I agree, i don't think its worth pushing that much voltage just to get 4.0 especially with so much vdroop on this mobo. For now ill stick with the voltage that gives me 1.36250v during idle in CPUZ to stay within intel specs and just see what fsb i can reach. Thankyou for your help. Perhaps the vdroop will be better with newer bios releases because this mobo is fairly new.
 
it can be frustrating to achieve that magical 4.0 GHz number. some get there easy without much issue while others struggle just to reach 3.8ghz.

here are some things that may be holding you back from getting there.

- your mobo might have what is known as "fsb hole". for one reason or another, your mobo will not allow certain fsb speeds to run stable, no matter what voltage you give the cpu. sometimes, this can be remedied by an updated bios from the manufacturer.

- your fsb voltage may be set too low. usually not the cause of instability but sometimes it helps to raise the fsb voltage by .1 or so. don't go too crazy with this voltage setting.

- ram: usually not an issue unless you are OC'ing the memory much higher than its rated speed. you can try with OC'ing with 1 stick and see if that helps any. OR use a different set instead of the 2x2gb that you have. 2x1gb might work better... or it may produce same result.

- PSU: not getting good stable power from the psu can sometimes cause instability issues. in your case, i really don't think it's a psu issue.
 
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