Ouch...

I was going to get AMD when the price went down.... but this... I think I'm going green.
 
Nvidia pushing back their release date and pricing their cards much more than ATI did help the consumer at all.
ATI is still cheaper and better for the educated consumer.
 
Parmenides said:
It depends.
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It only depends on benchmarks and power/heat numbers, coupled with price. Everything else is an emotional appeal. Why would you say you are gong 'green' without all of this information first? I hope you don't think ATi/AMD owe you a price drop just because nVidia releases a new card? The only way that would be true is if the new boards from nVidia are signifiganlty better or go against predictions and come in at lower prices than current ATi offerings. Otherwise to protect it's own financial future, and AMD's stockholders would demand that they do this, prices should stay stable until there is a competitive reason to lower them.
 
there is no reason for ati to lower prices. they are sitting in a good postion right now. its simple econmics.
 
I'm not decided yet. I am waiting for the numbers. I'm just saying that the scales are sliding the other way. Normally I think of nVidia as an enormous price bloat. But AMD (actually, the retailers) are possibly more the same. If I'm going to buy bloat, might as well go nVidia. :D
 
Parmenides said:
I'm not decided yet. I am waiting for the numbers. I'm just saying that the scales are sliding the other way. Normally I think of nVidia as an enormous price bloat. But AMD (actually, the retailers) are possibly more the same. If I'm going to buy bloat, might as well go nVidia. :D
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Somebody has already posted the prices, Official MSRP's are $399.99 for the GTX 470, and $549.99 for the GTX 480. see here

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1505709

So I don't know why ATI would reduce their prices just yet.
 
If you used the BCB deal that kept popping up last few weeks you get 15% back off that $380 5870 purchase. Made it a done deal for me.
 
I'm still holding out hope that AMD will bring prices back down to the original MSRP. I don't see it happening, but it would be great for us.
 
If AMD's sales are threatened by Fermi's release, they will adjust prices accordingly (be it MSRP, AIB rebates, whatever). Given that Fermi still looks to be available in limited supply, coupled with the fact that there really isn't anything great about it, probably leads to AMD not feeling threatened. This could change once Fermi actually launches, but for now this is simple economics.
 
Parmenides said:
I'm not decided yet. I am waiting for the numbers. I'm just saying that the scales are sliding the other way. Normally I think of nVidia as an enormous price bloat. But AMD (actually, the retailers) are possibly more the same. If I'm going to buy bloat, might as well go nVidia. :D
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So if you're going to be gouged, you'd rather be gouged by nVidia?
That just reeks of fanboyism. Have fun with your hot expensive Gefarce 470.
Good luck trying to find it in stock.

Oh, and have fun buying a second one +$400 with 3x 120hz lcds +$1000 premium for 120hz panels.
 
J Macker said:
So if you're going to be gouged, you'd rather be gouged by nVidia?
That just reeks of fanboyism.
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lol, i'm far from an nVidia fanboy. (never even bought from them before). I don't buy a new video card each year (as you can see from my sig :p ), so I am looking at something that might last longer into the future, if it turns out that nVidia is a monster with tessellation processing. (though, it could also by hype as well).

It also pains me to say it, but a tad extra money on some PhysX capabilities (without bothering with a hack and 2nd card) is tempting also.

But yeah, if I'm going to be gouged, it doesn't necessarily have to be from AMD. I'll probably end up AMD anyways (never seriously considered nVidia until now). Just a little pissed about the gouging.
 
Those that were hoping and speculating on a price drop were dreaming....or smoking something.
 
Parmenides said:
But yeah, if I'm going to be gouged, it doesn't necessarily have to be from AMD. I'll probably end up AMD anyways (never seriously considered nVidia until now). Just a little pissed about the gouging.
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There are always opportunites missed. Don't we all wish we could have bought the 5850's for $259 at launch ? Or, we paid $300 and missed the sale 2 days ago for $229?

It's probably been the retailers gouging for a while. There's only two options for GTX 275 at newegg now for $320 and $310. Why choose a $310 GTX 275 when a gouged 5850 is $299? There is good reason the retailers are gouging the 5850's. Because it is a better option than the GTX 275 and is comperable to the 285. The only reason to be upset at the gouging is because ATI had the price set too low in the first place. If they had set the original MSRP at $299 and $399, it would have still been competitive and we would have paid for it and wouldn't have thought for a second we were being gouged.
 
No surprise here. I said this would happen months ago. Gonna quote myself again from what I said back in January http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1035221090#post1035221090
Lorien said:
The 5xxx series will not come down in price until the refresh parts are launched. What they will do, instead, is launch a new middle of the road SKU (HD5830), and release drivers that improve performance across the board and add or enhance features
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Nvidia is not and will not be in a position to challenge AMD in pricing at least for this year, so the price bar stays where AMD set it.
 
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Lorien said:
Nvidia is not and will not be in a position to challenge AMD in pricing at least for this year, so the price bar stays where AMD set it.
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Exactly. It looks like ATI will rule the $150-$375 market with the 5770-5870 unless the GTX470 doesn't fall in line with predictions.

Things might change once nvidia comes out with the GTX460, but not in the near term..
 
Talonz said:
Things might change once nvidia comes out with the GTX460, but not in the near term..
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Yup. The only Fermi derivative that has taped out is GF108 which, according to historical Nvidia numbering, is the low-end variant. That means it is at least 3 months out from mass production and add 1-2 for retail availability, assuming all goes perfect. Sadly there is absolutely no news about the mid-range variants.
 
The price drops will come sooner than they would want them to. This is a rinse & repeat scenario for AMD, or at the time, ATI, when they dominated for a gen. Instead of dropping the price to keep the pressure on Nvidia, they will hope to milk this series for all its worth. If history repeats itself as it has done a few times in the past, they'll be shooting themselves in the foot once again.
 
DarkLegacy said:
...they'll be shooting themselves in the foot once again.
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Nonsense. AMD is in business to make money and the market has shown that it can bear the prices AMD has set, so the prices will stay where they are. People here put way too much emphasis on high end pricing. The high end is nothing but a fraction(but is made up by extremely high margins) of the mid-range and OEM segment which is the bread and butter for companies like this.
 
Lorien said:
Nonsense. AMD is in business to make money and the market has shown that it can bear the prices AMD has set, so the prices will stay where they are. People here put way too much emphasis on high end pricing. The high end is nothing but a fraction(but is made up by extremely high margins) of the mid-range and OEM segment which is the bread and butter for companies like this.
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Well they need a new strategy then since it working out so well for them on the CPU side of things :p.
 
DarkLegacy said:
Well they need a new strategy then since it working out so well for them on the CPU side of things :p.
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Yup. To be honest tho, it looks like they have been changing things up. They released the first sub $100 quad-core cpu to consumers and according to rumors their 6-core cpus are going to be aggressively priced as well. Value like that forces your competition to innovate, which is good for consumers.
 
Parmenides said:
I'm not decided yet. I am waiting for the numbers. I'm just saying that the scales are sliding the other way. Normally I think of nVidia as an enormous price bloat. But AMD (actually, the retailers) are possibly more the same. If I'm going to buy bloat, might as well go nVidia. :D
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So you'd rather pay more for less, more than likely. Price:performance seems to still be in ATI's favor.
 
This is why we need more players in the game. With only AMD and nvidia, when one of them has a bad cycle consumers lose. And when one of the players misses an entire cycle then comes back with a loser like nvidia, consumers lose BIG.

Back in the day we also had 3dfx, intel, matrox, etc, and competition kept them hungry.
 
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schizo said:
Back in the day we also had 3dfx, intel, matrox, etc, and competition kept them hungry.
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What intel video chip competed with 3dfx and matrox? Do tell. I remember nVidia's TNT series and ATI's Rage series competing followed by a distant SiS for 2d.
 
J Macker said:
What intel video chip competed with 3dfx and matrox? Do tell. I remember nVidia's TNT series and ATI's Rage series competing followed by a distant SiS for 2d.
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Intel had a chip called the i740 that was a contender with the voodoo2 and riva128 for a brief time. That reminds me of another one, PowerVR with their tiled rendering, another technology that never really took off. There were a bunch of players in this space in the late 90s. Lots of competition and big news every couple of months, exciting stuff. Nothing like today.
 
Your history is a little off. The i740 never directly competed with any of the high end offerings from 3dfx and Nvidia, etc. because it relied on AGP texturing which was pitifully slow. The i740 was later integrated into the 810 chipset.
The PowerVR tech did ok for its time (Look up the Kyro and Kyro 2 cards). Also the PowerVR TBDR tech made it into the Sega Dreamcast in the form of the PowerVR CLX2.
You are right in saying it was indeed an exciting time.
 
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