Opteron 165 or 3800 X2

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Commander0Zero

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
397
First I may overclock but would like the best proc without overclocking. Mainly I game on my P.C. (Civ IV, Medieval/Rome Total War, Hopefully the new C&C game). I wanted a 939 dual-core that will keep me going for maybe another 9 months. I have a child on the way so I need this pc to streach a little longer. I have an evga sli motherboard , evga 7900gt with 2 gigs of memory. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
 
i love my 3800x2 i have overclocked to 2.6ghz @ 1.4V,2.7Ghz @ 1.45V,2.8Ghz @ 1.52V

im at stock since i dont need the boost atm but i will say go opty 165 even with a bad stepping ull get 2.4ghz for sure which is enough IMO until u want to upgrade to barcelona or c2d

so i say any will fit ur needs
 
I just did some research on this. go with the x2 3800+. It's cheaper.
 
Both are beasts, if you are upgrading from a single core, with out overclocking you should feel a noticeable difference, new egg has the 3800 x2 for about 120$ shipped, and I dont suppose you would see a huge difference with the 512k cache vs the 1mb cache on the opty, and the 200mhz
 
depends, the opterons 165 are coldbugged "most" are, but they are great overclockers on air/water. on the other hand the x2 3800 have a higher multiplier and will perform better under subzero temps, plus i think they have a smaller L2 cache 2x 512 vs 2x 1mb on the opteron 165. My suggestion is get the opteron 165 if you're looking for high cpu clock speeds or get the x2 3800 for cpu+ram speeds with the ability to go at lower temps were as the opteron 165 can't.
 
kirbyrj said:
If you're not OCing, go for higher clockspeed (e.g. 3800+) over cache.
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I endorse this opinion, with a bit of an addition to it: Go for the fastest (in terms of clock speed) dual-core CPU that you can afford if you're not going to overclock. The sweet spot is probably an Opteron 175 (2.2GHz stock) or maybe an X2 4600+ (2.4GHz). The X2 4600+ is probably a little harder to find than the Opteron, but price-wise they're comparable (both are around $230.00 at New Egg, probably less elsewhere).

Hope that helps!
 
great info guys!!!.... If I go opty do I have to change memory. I'm currently running and AMD 3400 single core... so I should feel a great diffrence with both processors...
 
one more comment they have a AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Toledo in stock at the egg. Could this be the way to go?
 
Commander0Zero said:
one more comment they have a AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Toledo in stock at the egg. Could this be the way to go?
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Yeah, that's not a bad choice. Should be able to use the same memory as long as you don't accidentally get an AM2 CPU.
 
YMMV, but I'm getting 2.7 on air with my Opty 165. I did Prime at almost 2.9, but the temperatures were higher than I would've liked.
 
Depends do you want to dish out money for new ram too?
 
Glow said:
Depends do you want to dish out money for new ram too?
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Well I'm not really looking to get more memory.... but that might improve performance... I have some ultra memory from tiger direct so getting new mem might help also any suggestions?
 
OK so I think I'm narrowed down to the 3800 X2 Manchester or the 4200 X2 Toledo... This processor needs to hold me for about 6 to 8months then I'll bedoing a complete overhaul... A friend of mine suggested that if I am overhauling I should go with the cheaper proc and save the money for the new rig..... So anymore thoughts....Thanks again...
 
same your money buy the cheapest dual-core proc for your money,.. so for your choices above get the X2 3800 then just overclock it at stock voltage as much as possible and be done with it. Wait for AM3 to arrive then upgrade ;)
 
One last question.... right now I'm running an AMD Athlon 64 3400 running at 2.21 GHZ... the 3800 X2 is a 2.00 GHZ processor..... will I actually see a performance drop in single threaded apps? What games actually make use of dual-core?
 
Commander0Zero said:
OK so I think I'm narrowed down to the 3800 X2 Manchester or the 4200 X2 Toledo... This processor needs to hold me for about 6 to 8months then I'll bedoing a complete overhaul... A friend of mine suggested that if I am overhauling I should go with the cheaper proc and save the money for the new rig..... So anymore thoughts....Thanks again...
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Just a small caveat: Normally, the X2 4200+s are Manchester core chips, and not Toledos. The "true" Toledo X2s are the 4400+ and 4800+. What distinguishes Toledos from the Manchesters is the amount of L2 cache per core: 1MB vs. 512KB, respectively. A Toledo that is neither an X2 4400+ or an X2 4800+ is one with disabled L2 cache.

Pragmatically speaking, what does this all mean? Some reports suggest that hamstrung Toledos don't overclock as well as a true Manchester. These gimped Toledos couldn't pass AMD's QC standards, but rather than throw away the chips they're sold as other than 4400+s and 4800+s with half their L2 cache disabled.

Hope that helps you some.
 
txtmstrjoe said:
Just a small caveat: Normally, the X2 4200+s are Manchester core chips, and not Toledos. The "true" Toledo X2s are the 4400+ and 4800+. What distinguishes Toledos from the Manchesters is the amount of L2 cache per core: 1MB vs. 512KB, respectively. A Toledo that is neither an X2 4400+ or an X2 4800+ is one with disabled L2 cache.

Pragmatically speaking, what does this all mean? Some reports suggest that hamstrung Toledos don't overclock as well as a true Manchester. These gimped Toledos couldn't pass AMD's QC standards, but rather than throw away the chips they're sold as other than 4400+s and 4800+s with half their L2 cache disabled.

Hope that helps you some.
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What he means is go for the x2 3800 and oc the crap out of it.
 
Just read a rumor on Newegg that the latest Opti 165's are actually Manchester's with added L2 cache. Anyone else know anything about that?
 
NoEcho said:
Just read a rumor on Newegg that the latest Opti 165's are actually Manchester's with added L2 cache. Anyone else know anything about that?
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I don't think that's possible. How can you add onto a die that's already been fabricated? And if you mean that it's all fabbed together, then that's just a Toledo. Remember... Most people that leave comments on the 'egg tend not to be able to tell the difference between taping up a poster and taping out a processor.
 
NoEcho said:
Just read a rumor on Newegg that the latest Opti 165's are actually Manchester's with added L2 cache. Anyone else know anything about that?
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Yeah, that's not possible as GilmourD said.
 
NoEcho said:
Just read a rumor on Newegg that the latest Opti 165's are actually Manchester's with added L2 cache. Anyone else know anything about that?
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You can disable non-functional (or sub-standard) portions of a chip, but you actually can't physically "add" L2 cache. A chip either has that manufactured it or it doesn't. That rumor is nonsense.
 
s939 users endure 15% processor "tax" for staying on platform. Don't pay the tax.
 
It's not so much a tax as it is the price for being behind "current technology." Sometimes it works for you too :). I just sold an Athlon XP 3200+ CPU for $150 on ebay. There's no way that thing is worth $50 let alone $150 ;). Same thing happens in AGP.

Anyway, technically aren't those processors EOL'd anyway? 15% over current processor pricing for an EOL processor is a pretty good deal usually.
 
bendit said:
s939 users endure 15% processor "tax" for staying on platform. Don't pay the tax.
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The alternative is a jaunt down C2D row - so that's processor, mobo, and memory. Not exactly a deal. But I'll do that before I go AM2 (with foreseeable tech results) since AMD screwed us on the sockets.
 
NoEcho said:
The alternative is a jaunt down C2D row - so that's processor, mobo, and memory. Not exactly a deal. But I'll do that before I go AM2 (with foreseeable tech results) since AMD screwed us on the sockets.
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And very well might be planning a further screwing with AM2+/AM3
 
NoEcho said:
The alternative is a jaunt down C2D row - so that's processor, mobo, and memory. Not exactly a deal. But I'll do that before I go AM2 (with foreseeable tech results) since AMD screwed us on the sockets.
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How is it any worse than what Intel's done with sockets over the past few years?
 
GilmourD said:
How is it any worse than what Intel's done with sockets over the past few years?
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The 775 has been Intel's premium socket for the past few years and will continue to be for the next few years (far as I know). That's the life span of a computer, easily. No mandatory mobo and memory changeup. No rebuilds.

AMD's sockets have gone through 3 changes in the past year or two and it sounds like there might be another change in the works. That's the life-span of a butterfly on meth. That's a new motherboard at least with each change. That's called "punishing the loyal".
 
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