Opinions on Emu 1212M

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plinko

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 13, 2001
Messages
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Anyone have any thoughts on the Emu 1212M PCI sound card? I'm looking for a card to replace my M-Audio Revolution 7.1 as it has no 64-bit drivers at the moment. Onboard sound with this new build is unbearable. My major needs for a sound card are first and foremost great stereo sound quality (no need for 5.1 or 7.1 surround), good SNR, dynamic range, and good drivers. I'm not interested so much in EAX features that the X-Fi series touts, since this card will be used in my studio computer. I'll probably play a few games like Bioshock, BF2, and Crysis, but 2.1 is just fine for me.

Here are a few links to ponder:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--EMU1212M
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/EMu-1212M-v2-PCI-Digital-Audio-System?sku=241213&src=3SOSWXXA
 
I use the Emu 1212m and love it. I use my computer for recording, music playback and gaming. It does all three of those very well. Sound quality is excellent both for recording and playback. I have never had a problem with sound in any game I've tried-old or new(reliving RTCW atm). The built in DAC/ADC are damn fine for the cost. The SNR is great at 120.7dB. It seems like exactly the card you are looking for, especially at its price. Like you 2.1 is all I need-I use Blue Sky ProDesk 2.1 studio monitors and they sound superb through my rig.
 
Sounds encouraging so far. What operating system do you run? I'm running XP 64-bit now but may soon be on Vista Ultimate 64-bit. You know of any driver issues with these OSes?
 
Dang, they've got driver support on lockdown!!! Leaps and bounds ahead of M-Audio :D My friend, you just about have me sold on this card. Know where I can get a good deal on it? Ebay's showing about $140 or so for a new one.
 
I use external EMU 0404 and it is nice kit indeed. EMU are a very good soundcard producer and it is hard to believe they are owned by Creative.
 
I have the 1212m, E-MU offers 64 bit drivers and Patchmix software online. It works well for movies and music and has better sound quality than the X-fi I have but Patchmix uses a lot of RAM and two PCI slots is inconvenient. Higher SNR and much more neutral sound though, which is big for me.
 
The E-MU 0404 I think has the same DAC as the Logitech Transporter ($1999) and the Benchmark ($1300).

While this doesn't mean its the same SQ as the Transporter or Benchmark (because of internal electronics, keep in mind that most DACs are just a few dollars a piece), the bang for buck as an external DAC is crazy good. The 1212m should be along the same lines if not better for SQ and functionality. I plan on using that to replace my Yamaha V663's DAC.
 
I've seen someone post at Headfi who was trying out various DAC's to mate with his Senn HD650's and in his opinion he liked the EMU 0404 USB the best and he was comparing to DAC's that cost as much as $2,000.00. That's a pretty good endorsement for a bit of kit you can buy for less than $200.00. I've seen other people there say they think the EMU 0404 USB is the best bang-for-buck availalble when it comes to computer sound hardware.
IMO it needs a more powerful amp for HD650 but with HD595 it is good. 1212M should sound better even but it is an internal card and the 0404 USB is external so it has no issues with EMI that can be caused by other components in the PC.
 
Well, you guys must have been reading my mind. I just found out about the 0404 USB and it looks pretty interesting. I'm not really crazy about using external hardware in general since I've always been under the impression that internal hardware is superior. Think: hard drives external vs. internal. But, I've also heard that an external USB interface is theoretically better than in internal sound card because of EMI issues. What's your take on this issue? I do like all the extras the Emu 0404 USB has like the mic preamp, headphone amp, and MIDI features though.
 
The 1212 is a stereo sound card, not 2.1, I have owned one for some time and you would be hard pressed to beat the sound quality in stereo.
 
Kind of a change of plans here, I'm leaning toward the 0404 USB. Anyone have anything to add about it?
 
sdgserv said:
The 1212 is a stereo sound card, not 2.1, I have owned one for some time and you would be hard pressed to beat the sound quality in stereo.
Click to expand...

Yea, we know that but most people these days use a separate powered sub when using small satellite speakers so it will be used for 2.1 and not just 2 channel.
 
plinko said:
Kind of a change of plans here, I'm leaning toward the 0404 USB. Anyone have anything to add about it?
Click to expand...

Don't compare an external soundcard to an external HDD as they have not much in common. Yes, the USB bus is slower than the PCI or PCI-E bus but it is plenty for audio and shouldn't cause any issues so long as your USB controllers are good on the mb. Even high end amps and DACs use USB now with only a few using Firewire instead. With that being said, I don't use my EMU 0404 USB over USB. Well, I do sometimes but very rarely. I installed the drivers and set it up to use USB and only have to plug it in via a USB to use it that way if I want. You need to install it thart way if you want to use the recording features of the EMU 0404 but if it is just used for music playback you can connect it digitally either with COAX or Optical. It has bothy coax and opitical in and out. I connect it to 2 PC's using both optical and digitasl connections with a Chaintech AV-710 and an X-Fi. JUst about all motherboards come with optical out digital out now too. This way you eliminate any possbile USB issues that might crop up and I can use my X-Fi for gaming and simply turn on the EMU 0404 for when I want to play music. Anyway, I have used it over USB for both games and music and never had any issues but I have seen the occasional poster at headfi with USB causing crackling sound but that is because they either need to tweak a setting or they have bad USB controllers on their mb. Also with the EMU 0404 USB you get a decent classA headphone amp that I doubt the 1212M has. Sound over this amp is neutral and clean sounding.
 
I would not be using the digital in/out on the 0404 until I get a better receiver with that capability. I'll be sticking by the analog connections from PC->0404 USB->current Technics receiver. Are the analog ins/outs as good as the 1212M?
 
Don't know for sure but the 0404 USB has both balanced and non balanced analog out. You can use standard full size RCA jacks or mini PC output. When I said I use digital on EMU 0404 I meant from PC soundcard to 0404 and not digital to receiver. You can do it that way too if your motherboard has digital out, most do these days. I would never send digital output to my Onlyo reciever because the DAC in the EMU 0404 is better than the DAC in the Onkyo. I send analog signal from the EMU 0404 to the Onkyo reciever, Onkyo DAC is decent too though. And because the 0404 gives me 2 analog out feeds I also send analog from 0404 to an Audiolab 8000A integrated amp. It's quite the nice little setup I have going here and wouldn't have been able to do it without the EMU 0404 USB. It really is a very versatile little box and gives you more bang for the buck than any internal PCI soundcard I have seen without an add-on breakout box. But for less than $200.00 I doubt any soundcard on the market can beat it. Unless of course you want 7.1 audio as the EMU 0404 is purely a prosumer 2 channel piece of equipment.
 
I've had both the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 and the E-MU 1212M v2 (which I'm using right now), and can tell you that the E-MU is definitely a step up in terms of customizability and sound quality.

I can assure you that no EMI generated from inside your case gets into the audio signal. See here (you probably need a translator) for a test IXBT.com ran on the 1212M's output looped back into it's input using Rightmark Audio Analyzer at 192kHz with 24bit resolution. As you can see, almost no EMI or RFI finds its way into the signal even in the out-of-audible-band frequencies (ie. at frequencies greater than 20kHz). The noise floor, total harmonic distortion, intermodulation distortion and crosstalk between channels is also measurably superior to the Revolution 7.1's (as seen here, note that this test was run at 32bit/96kHz).

Subjectively, the 1212M is certainly more detailed and has less emphasis on the treble/high frequencies. Not to say that it's dull, it just presents music in a neutral manner. It's a very clean sounding card.

Two things you should note: the 1212M is VERY customizable in terms of audio routing. You may want to give yourself a couple of days to get acquainted with E-MU's PatchMix DSP since it's incredibly flexible. Also, AC3 and DTS passthrough is not supported. Unlike the Revolution 7.1, you cannot connect the E-MU's digital output to a receiver (either coaxial or optical), play a DVD, and expect it to automagically lock on to an AC3 or DTS track. The 1212M is a production-quality card and thus only routes PCM audio.

Compared to the 0404 USB, the 1212M uses the flagship DAC (digital-to-analog converters) and ADC (analog-to-digital converters) from Cirrus Logic (CS4398) and AKM (AK5394A), respectively. However, the 0404 USB uses one of AKM's best DACs (AK4396) and their second-best ADC (AK5385A). With such high quality components, at this point it becomes a matter of which sound you prefer rather than which DAC or ADC (and thus card/interface) is superior. The 0404 USB also supports AC3 and DTS passthrough, which is a plus if you need it.

Hope this helps with your decision. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.
 
plinko said:
Dang, they've got driver support on lockdown!!! Leaps and bounds ahead of M-Audio :D My friend, you just about have me sold on this card. Know where I can get a good deal on it? Ebay's showing about $140 or so for a new one.
Click to expand...

M-Audio is the major WTF when it comes to drivers for PC, but you'll notice that some of the other sound card makers like HT Omega also do an extremely good job of this. Vote with your wallet!
 
Wow, lots of great info here! Thank you gnuz187 and milkweg for the detailed replies.

One noob-ish sounding question though: If I were to buy the 0404 USB, could I get by with connecting the USB cable from my PC to the 0404, then run analog outs to a receiver? I'm under the impression this would work as an external "sound card" between my PC and receiver. Is all audio "information" sent over USB without the need to run analog or digital cables from my PC's onboard sound to the 0404? This might sound repetitive but I want to make sure it will work as I assume it will. It will be used mostly for music playback but also for recording. I'm still leaning toward the 0404 USB because of the added headphone amp. The AC3 and DTS pass through are nice too.
 
I have been using the 1212m for 3 years now and have been very happy with it. The DAC is excellent (compared to the onboard at least :eek:) and the ADC is equally as good, although these days I'm not using its DAC much as I have an external DAC. As a digital transport it's really good and I don't see the need of changing soundcard any time in the future.

I would like to know though, how do these E-MU cards (0404 USB, 1212m) compare to the Auzentech Prelude? I keep hearing good things about the Prelude and how it is the best soundcard today. So I am interested in knowing just how do the E-MU cards (which are supposed to the best 2 channel cards back in the days) compare against the Prelude for 2 channel playback? It is highly unlikely that I will ever get the chance to hear the Prelude with my current Stax system, but I'm just interested in reading some comparisons.
 
plinko said:
Wow, lots of great info here! Thank you gnuz187 and milkweg for the detailed replies.

One noob-ish sounding question though: If I were to buy the 0404 USB, could I get by with connecting the USB cable from my PC to the 0404, then run analog outs to a receiver? I'm under the impression this would work as an external "sound card" between my PC and receiver. Is all audio "information" sent over USB without the need to run analog or digital cables from my PC's onboard sound to the 0404? This might sound repetitive but I want to make sure it will work as I assume it will. It will be used mostly for music playback but also for recording. I'm still leaning toward the 0404 USB because of the added headphone amp. The AC3 and DTS pass through are nice too.
Click to expand...

Yea, you just connect 0404 to PC via USB and then connect from 0404 to your receiver with RCA analog. You have to buy TRS>RCA adapters though for RCA analog because it has those balanced output jacks which are a different sized jack. Of course if you had an amp with balanced inputs you would just use balanced cables for optimal sound quality. Or you could use the mini PC output and use mini to L/R RCA adapter but you should use the balanced output with the TRS>RCA adapters (think that's what they are called). You can get those at Radioshack for about five bucks.

If you need better clarification of what I mean then just say and I will post some photos of the setup for you.
 
Just ordered the 0404 USB for $175 on ebay (thank you 10% off coupon!). Should arrive Friday. I'll let you guys know how things work out. For the time being this will be fed into my Technics receiver and Polk bookshelf speakers. I'm taking my newly acquired Pioneer SX-850 receiver in for repair. When I get that back, it will be killer :cool:
 
Good for you. I'm sure you will be happy with it. If not, well, I guess you can blame me. :)
 
my 1212M is the only soundcard that I have never had problems with.
 
Well, got the 0404 USB today in the mail. Hooked it up and it sounds beautiful. Right now I'm running it via USB and it's hooked via analog to my receiver. The headphone amp is decent, but not quite as punchy as I hoped. Lots of great software comes with it. I really like the Proteus VX app. It includes all the sounds form the original Proteus sound modules. If you're an X-Files fan, the "whistle sound" in the theme song came from a Proteus 2! It sounds awesome
 
p997tt said:
I have been using the 1212m for 3 years now and have been very happy with it. The DAC is excellent (compared to the onboard at least :eek:) and the ADC is equally as good, although these days I'm not using its DAC much as I have an external DAC. As a digital transport it's really good and I don't see the need of changing soundcard any time in the future.

I would like to know though, how do these E-MU cards (0404 USB, 1212m) compare to the Auzentech Prelude? I keep hearing good things about the Prelude and how it is the best soundcard today. So I am interested in knowing just how do the E-MU cards (which are supposed to the best 2 channel cards back in the days) compare against the Prelude for 2 channel playback? It is highly unlikely that I will ever get the chance to hear the Prelude with my current Stax system, but I'm just interested in reading some comparisons.
Click to expand...

How do you like your Stax Omega 2? I've had my Omega 2 MK1 for a few months now and they're amazing headphones. Simply unreal how detailed and clear they are.
 
[A]MD-Fan;1032965275 said:
How do you like your Stax Omega 2? I've had my Omega 2 MK1 for a few months now and they're amazing headphones. Simply unreal how detailed and clear they are.
Click to expand...

I have the MK2 version (got the Japanese 007A), which quite a few people on Headfi have reported that it doesn't sound as good as MK1 but some Japanese reviews I read mentioned that the MK2 sound better. I haven't heard the MK1yet so I can't compare them, but I must say I really enjoy every minute of using my O2. During the first few hours of using them, I was pretty much blown away. Everything sounded very clear, 3-dimenional with great details and the bass was very punchy (even stronger than using flat pads with Grado RS1) which is exactly what I want. I haven't never heard anything that sounds as good, although I must admit I haven't heard much high end loudspeakers in my life. (we got some Magneplanar speakers here but the 007As are better)

Back when I had the RS1, when I wanted punchy bass I would need to switch to flat pads, but using flat pads means everything sounds cramped together with no soundstage at all. Changing to bowl pads makes everything sounds more clear, less muffled and the beautiful mid-range is back, but the bass is very weak :mad:. With the 007A, I can have the best of both worlds, plus more. :)

What I really want now is a better source and amp...

Ok, let's get back on topic.
 
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