Operation Payback IRC Operator Arrested

[Phoenix333]

Seriously, what age are you mentally?

Old enough to know what happens when irresponsible people mishandle information. There's a phrase they used to use - loose lips sink ships. It still holds true today, but I suppose you don't care about consequences. No, as long as someone's "sticking it to the man" it's all justified. It's just so easy to rationalize it all away.

Whistleblowers being shot? Sound like you need more vaccines and your right to vote taken away, assuming you even bother to do so. Just allow the big government to decide everything for you aswell huh?

Those charged with handling and protecting classified information are not whistleblowers when they hand over said information to a foreign party. Look up the definition of treason some time. These people have sworn oaths and have a legal obligation to protect sensitive data. The content of the data is not the concern here, unless you're in favor of the ends justifying the means. As for big government, I never said I trusted the government. There's a lot the government does wrong. That's still no reason for people to break oaths and the law. War crimes? Pfft. You people don't even know what war is. The fact that you think someone should be deprived of their rights because you disagree with them speaks volumes about your character, or lack thereof.

Not to mention the fact you want to extend the ability of being able to charge foreign people from other countries with treason against your country?

If a spy is caught in the US stealing classified information, what do you think happens to said spy? If a foreign agency is complicit in the dissemination of classified information, that is engaging in espionage. I did not say Assange should be tried for treason, I said he should be tried as a terrorist because his actions are blatantly harmful to the US, and it is ONLY the US he is attempting to harm through his actions. The US has a right and responsibility to protect its own interests, as much as people seem to think otherwise these days. In addition, if you're going to attack me, please read what I actually say before launching your tirade. I detest arguing with someone that cannot keep their facts in order, especially when they're right on the same freaking page.

Perhaps the US government should leave well alone and pay more attention to it's own affairs.

So how exactly do you put the genie back in the bottle? Like it or not, the US is responsible for fixing the mess that is Iraq and Afghanistan, a mess that was the result of the failed policy of limited warfare. If there's a war crime, it is in settling for less than swift and total victory. Going to war half-handed and hamstringing the ability of the military to fight and employing ridiculous rules of engagement has prolonged what should have been over with in less than a year. Still, it's life as is so what do you propose, pulling everyone out and letting Al Qaida and the Taliban just take everything back over? Yeah, that's really going to help the Iraqis and Afghans rebuild their lives. If you have a solution to this, feel free to contact the DoD with suggestions.

I'm not saying the american people, I mean the owners of America, the military industrial complex which dictates Americas policys both at home and abroad.

Uhuh. I'd educate you about how the American political process really works, but I doubt you'd take your tinfoil hat off long enough to listen.

 

[THOMO]

Old enough to know what happens when irresponsible people mishandle information. There's a phrase they used to use - loose lips sink ships. It still holds true today, but I suppose you don't care about consequences. No, as long as someone's "sticking it to the man" it's all justified. It's just so easy to rationalize it all away.

I knew it, sticking it to the man eh? Anything anyone ever says or does towards america is "sticking it to the man". Yet you call me paranoid (with your tinfoil hat comment).
Feel hard done by much?

Those charged with handling and protecting classified information are not whistleblowers when they hand over said information to a foreign party. Look up the definition of treason some time.

If the govt department in question is commiting illegal act whic it's sworn not to do and someone with morality leaks details of it...you believe they should be shot? Calm down and think logically.

These people have sworn oaths and have a legal obligation to protect sensitive data.

Unless it's lies.

As for big government, I never said I trusted the government. There's a lot the government does wrong. That's still no reason for people to break oaths and the law.

People find out thing when the time and circumstances arise. They don't get to choose. Would you rather wait until 10-20years have passed and the perpetrators are dead of old age before they "leak" the information they have to their own superiors?

War crimes? Pfft. You people don't even know what war is. The fact that you think someone should be deprived of their rights because you disagree with them speaks volumes about your character, or lack thereof.

Well I'd say nine years in the British military (engineers), including time in Kosovo/croatia/Northern Ireland qualifies me on knowing what war is. I can't honestly remember sayin' denying someones rights was ok......I thought that was you?

If a spy is caught in the US stealing classified information, what do you think happens to said spy? If a foreign agency is complicit in the dissemination of classified information, that is engaging in espionage. I did not say Assange should be tried for treason, I said he should be tried as a terrorist because his actions are blatantly harmful to the US, and it is ONLY the US he is attempting to harm through his actions.

Okay I re-read your last post and see more clearly what you wrote so I'll appologise for taking it out of context. However the US is hardly the only country Assange's leaks are hurting. Perhaps that's the way the US media is painting it but it's certainly not the truth.

So how exactly do you put the genie back in the bottle? Like it or not, the US is responsible for fixing the mess that is Iraq and Afghanistan, a mess that was the result of the failed policy of limited warfare. If there's a war crime, it is in settling for less than swift and total victory. Going to war half-handed and hamstringing the ability of the military to fight and employing ridiculous rules of engagement has prolonged what should have been over with in less than a year.

I think considering the revelations concerning certain administrations (Bush for 1) and the disinfo/misinformation regarding 911 etc the only real course of action would be to slowly pull out of Iraq/Afghanistan and allow things to return to however they do. Those countries may be far from perfect but that hardly gives the US the right to muscle in to other countries affairs. Only when they are a direct threat to americas infrastructure/national security should america wade in waving the "we'll sort you out and bring democracy to you whether you want it or not" flag. If you honestly believe those countries had anything to do with attacking america on 911 then I really do feel sorry for you. Perhaps when you realise it's not the people of any countries which start wars (more the govts there of) then you'll see what I mean. Since you like older saying you may be familiar with this one, "Rich mans argument......poor mans war"?

No nation on earth will EVER "beat" these people entirely. Have you no knowledge of Russias last attempt and the hundreds of thousands of soldiers they lost in that failed effort? America has a long way to go.....and is no more likely to achieve the final goal than the russians did.

Still, it's life as is so what do you propose, pulling everyone out and letting Al Qaida and the Taliban just take everything back over? Yeah, that's really going to help the Iraqis and Afghans rebuild their lives.

Continuing what I said above.....if you believe the Taliban to be so bad why do you agree with the attack america made on Iraq? That country had/has nothing to do with the taliban yet your countries soldiers have trampled it into the ground. You can hardly site those people "fighting back" as a defence for this murderous rampage. We all know (well those who have seen it with their own eyes atleast) that these wars have nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with oil. Before you retort with "you just wanna stick it to the man" might I reiterate the fact I said it's the govt military/industrial complex which owns your country which chooses why your country goes to war.....they simply lie to you and get you to go along with their fake agendas. The american people as a whole (and those of most other countries including my own) aren't even informed enough to make rational decisions regarding these matters. This is also due to the agenda of said infrastructures.

Uhuh. I'd educate you about how the American political process really works, but I doubt you'd take your tinfoil hat off long enough to listen.

Here we go again, tinfoil bollox. You need to give yourself a slap and either grow up or wake up. Your economy is tanking, your country won't help it's own elderly/socially deprived, they spend TRILLIONS on arms and war with third world nations to rape their resources and this is all common knowledge. Even the NY times, washington post etc report this on a daily basis and yet you tell me I wear a tinfoil hat?

If that's genuinely your stance then I'd prefer not to continue this discussion with you.

 

[BloodyIron]

There is no head to cut off in p2p, esp with DHT

 

[HardOCP News]

so you guys finally started a thread about this situation, days after it started and was being reported everywhere else.......only after someone is arrested.....hrmmmm...bias maybe?

hardly.....you couldn't go to any major news website without seeing this all over the web for days now. i think someone in charge had a personal problem with the group doing this and only thought it worth reporting when they were "brought to justice"

either you report news about technology and the internet or you dont, please dont contribute to the censorship by ignoring the facts

This was already explained to you via PM:

We are [H]ardOCP, not a WikiLeaks fan site. We don't need to turn into a site that reports 10,000 WikiLeaks stories a day...just like every other site out there (as you mentioned). The vast majority of our readers are sick to death of the 24/7 WikiLeaks crap.

Thank you for your tips for running a successful unbiased website.

 

[nobody_here]

This was already explained to you via PM:

We are [H]ardOCP, not a WikiLeaks fan site. We don't need to turn into a site that reports 10,000 WikiLeaks stories a day...just like every other site out there (as you mentioned). The vast majority of our readers are sick to death of the 24/7 WikiLeaks crap.

Thank you for your tips for running a successful unbiased website.

just to clarify Steve, the PM stated that "we didn't need a play by play"

i guess i mistook reporting it in the first place for a play by play, that's apples to apples right?. i wasn't disappointed that you guys hadn't updated the story daily like all the other sites were doing, yes, that was redundant, i was disappointed that the story was days old and had not been reported on yet...at all...

i guess it's confusing because i see you guys emulate other tech sites typically, simply regurgitating the same stories. i visit other major tech sites daily, and typically i see the same headlines here, which is fine. but after days of seeing it everywhere else i was like...WTF....they must have an itch in their pants over this Wikileaks ordeal because they aren't giving it page space like everyone else....even though they normally do for everything else

 

[Phoenix333]

Feel hard done by much?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. If you mean do I blame someone else for my life's troubles, no.

If the govt department in question is commiting illegal act whic it's sworn not to do and someone with morality leaks details of it...you believe they should be shot? Calm down and think logically.

If something illegal is going on there is a duty to the American people first, not to leak it to the entire freaking world through a foreign agency. Leaking operational details and strategies gives useful information to the very people that want to cause real harm. That's what peeves me. It's not like someone breaking a story about John Edwards having an illegitimate child here. There's got to be a better way to fix the corruption in the government. Let me put it in another light... if someone has taken an oath to defend the US Constitution and they break that oath, that person needs to be punished. I'm including all government officials in this, not just any leakers.

Would you rather wait until 10-20years have passed and the perpetrators are dead of old age before they "leak" the information they have to their own superiors?

I for one believe in divine justice. I'll agree that there's certainly not much justice in this world, so I'm hoping there's some in the next.

Well I'd say nine years in the British military (engineers), including time in Kosovo/croatia/Northern Ireland qualifies me on knowing what war is. I can't honestly remember sayin' denying someones rights was ok......I thought that was you?

If you've been in Kosovo, I'll give you credit there. I've heard first-hand the horrors that happened there, so you have my apologies for including you in that blanket criticism and my utmost respect for your service to your country.

Perhaps that's the way the US media is painting it but it's certainly not the truth.

That is quite possible. Unfortunately, we're stuck with the filters we have over here.

the only real course of action would be to slowly pull out of Iraq/Afghanistan and allow things to return to however they do. Those countries may be far from perfect but that hardly gives the US the right to muscle in to other countries affairs.

That's what they're trying to do. The resurgence of the Taliban is hampering this though.

Only when they are a direct threat to americas infrastructure/national security should america wade in waving the "we'll sort you out and bring democracy to you whether you want it or not" flag.

I do pretty much agree with this, actually.

If you honestly believe those countries had anything to do with attacking america on 911 then I really do feel sorry for you.

In the case of Afghanistan, yes. The Taliban government was sheltering Al Qaida. They were offering material support. So in the case of Afghanistan, yes, it was correct to invade after 9/11, but the war was fought completely wrong thanks to Rumsfeld's blundering. In the case of Iraq, no, I do not think Iraq had anything to do with 9/11.

No nation on earth will EVER "beat" these people entirely. Have you no knowledge of Russias last attempt and the hundreds of thousands of soldiers they lost in that failed effort? America has a long way to go.....and is no more likely to achieve the final goal than the russians did.

Actually I do agree with you there. Nobody will beat them so long as people keep capitulating on the world scene. As long as Islam is allowed to run roughshod over everyone else while everyone else is required to respect it the attacks will never end. The only way it will change is if the Muslim world as a whole rejects the idea of Dar Al Harb and Jihad, but as long as there are clerics willing to convert at the point of a sword and indoctrinate people in Jihad, this will continue. I think Islam is going through its version of the Crusades right now. It's going to be a long and bloody struggle until Muslims the world over either learn to live in peace, Islam conquers the world, or is somehow destroyed.

Continuing what I said above.....if you believe the Taliban to be so bad why do you agree with the attack america made on Iraq?

I never stated such. At the time, I did agree that Saddam needed to be removed from power, but hindsight as they say is 20/20. I believe now that it was a tragic mistake. As for agendas, I do not believe the military industrial complex runs things. I believe corrupt politicians do things based on twisted ideology and greed. The military itself just follows orders. As for industry... all of America's industry now belongs to China.

Your economy is tanking, your country won't help it's own elderly/socially deprived, they spend TRILLIONS on arms and war with third world nations to rape their resources and this is all common knowledge.

We could go into a spitting match about whose country is doing worse, but what would that solve? The whole world economic system is collapsing. The US is just being reported more because it's the only "superpower" left, and much of the world hates the US because there's no Soviet Union to be afraid of anymore. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, but if my enemy is no more, then the long knives come out. That's how it works on the world scene.

 

[ChairmanMiau]

Personally I hope they level espionage charges at Assange, extradite him to the US, and try him as a terrorist. Then I hope they find all the leakers of the documents and shoot them for treason as well. They deserve no less.

Well if we're getting all bloodthirsty and rabid as a matter of routine on this forum; personally I hope 'they' do the same to you & your family.

But of course, that's disgraceful isn't it? You absolute fucking tosser.

 

[NahBrah]

gaspah: If you demand the US releases all its classified information, then you must also demand that every OTHER country do likewise. Then and only then will you have the truth. It's not going to happen, but then you don't care about keeping it balanced, do you? No, you just want to see the Big Bad America taken down a peg, so in your eyes what Wikileaks is doing and what the "hacktivists" are doing is somehow noble. What a sick, twisted logic you adhere to.

Wikileaks has released information from countries all over the world. Just because you pretend they don't (or more likely, you don't know and are just ignorantly spouting your uniformed opinion), it doesn't mean they aren't doing exactly what you are accusing them of not doing.

You ever hear the phrase "two wrongs don't make a right"? DDOS and hacking are computer crimes. A crime is a crime and hiding behind some ridiculous notion of free speech should not shield you from accountability for your actions. Oh, but that's not fair of me, holding you to your own standards. I'm glad these idiots are getting busted. This "hactivism" is nothing but a digital version of people rioting and committing acts of vandalism under the guise of a "protest". They're nothing but petty criminals.

DDOSing is nothing like hacking, first of all. Its just repeatedly accessing the site. Refreshing like the F5 button does on your browser. And second, DDOSing doesn't damage anything, it only makes it inaccessible. So, your pathetic analogy of vandalism makes no logical sense.

Personally I hope they level espionage charges at Assange, extradite him to the US, and try him as a terrorist. Then I hope they find all the leakers of the documents and shoot them for treason as well. They deserve no less.

Espionage charges are meant for using during times of war, where sensitive information is being passed to an enemy nation. This requires both war, and a recognized enemy nation, two things that are nonexistant here. I know Bush set a precedent for using laws in ways they were never meant to be, ways the informed public would be outraged by, but don't let your jadedness let it continue by ignoring the obvious perversion of it.

 

[Phoenix333]

Well if we're getting all bloodthirsty and rabid as a matter of routine on this forum; personally I hope 'they' do the same to you & your family.

But of course, that's disgraceful isn't it? You absolute fucking tosser.

I don't wish the same on you. I have broken no laws and harmed no one. I only wish for the guilty to pay for their crimes. You wish for murder and bloodshed over an opinion? I do hope you are being very, very sarcastic. As for your insults, you waste your breath if you think calling me names is going to do me any damage.

Wikileaks has released information from countries all over the world. Just because you pretend they don't (or more likely, you don't know and are just ignorantly spouting your uniformed opinion), it doesn't mean they aren't doing exactly what you are accusing them of not doing.

Educate me then, if I am ignorant, instead of insulting me. Link me to some articles that will help me see this broader picture you speak of. I am not above learning, if you're not above helping someone learn.

DDOSing is nothing like hacking, first of all. Its just repeatedly accessing the site. Refreshing like the F5 button does on your browser. And second, DDOSing doesn't damage anything, it only makes it inaccessible. So, your pathetic analogy of vandalism makes no logical sense.

I know that DDOS is not hacking; It's flooding. It's still criminal so the point is moot. It is still making something unusable for a time. If someone disconnected the spark plug wires on your car it would do no permanent harm, but still make it unusable for a time. It's also still criminal. The law is the law.

Espionage charges are meant for using during times of war, where sensitive information is being passed to an enemy nation. This requires both war, and a recognized enemy nation, two things that are nonexistant here.

Espionage charges are not limited to times of war. Look it up here. As for war being nonexistent, God I wish that were really the case!

I know Bush set a precedent for using laws in ways they were never meant to be, ways the informed public would be outraged by, but don't let your jadedness let it continue by ignoring the obvious perversion of it.

Which laws, exactly? Do you mean the Patriot Act? Congress passed that law, Democrats and Republicans alike, the same as Congress authorized the actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nobody in the government is guilt free on any of this. As for abuse, don't act like Bush is the only one that may have gone to far. I've heard no headlines about Obama ending any domestic spying. If anything it's gotten worse. Do I have to bring up the TSA nude scanners and "love pats"? Talk about abuses...

 

[THOMO]

@ Phoenix333

Your last post to me was IMO considerably more mature and I hold my hand out to you for it. I don't mean that in a condescending manner either. It takes a lot to keep an open mind in these modern times and I salute you for having done so, atleast in my opinion.

 

[THOMO]

For those interested here is Keith Olbermann clip regarding this subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9ExSqnuwyk

 

[NahBrah]

Educate me then, if I am ignorant, instead of insulting me. Link me to some articles that will help me see this broader picture you speak of. I am not above learning, if you're not above helping someone learn.

Look, it doesn't take much effort to educate yourself on this stuff. If you were actually open to educating yourself on things, then you would have actually checked into what the site is before you put your "gotta save America!" rationalizations onto everything and took the forums to defend her Majesty, no matter the cost or crime. Mirrors of the site are popping up on the internet now that you can check out if you'd like. Or maybe use Google to find and article or two about the whole situation that isn't written by Fox News, it would probably explain everything better since it hasn't been white washed with Patriotism to the point of absurdity.

I know that DDOS is not hacking; It's flooding. It's still criminal so the point is moot. It is still making something unusable for a time. If someone disconnected the spark plug wires on your car it would do no permanent harm, but still make it unusable for a time. It's also still criminal. The law is the law.

No, its nothing like your also retarded new analogy. It's like hundreds of people crowding into the same gas station with no one actually buying anything, bogging it down for the paying customers. And then everyone going to the next store and crowding that store for a while, allowing the first store open back up to paying customers.

Its called protest. I'm sorry you've forgotten what people have fought and died for you to have. I really pity that you would perceive the only remaining avenue for effect peaceful, civil disobedience in the modern world to be a threat that needs destroyed, at all costs, with no morally or logically acceptable reasons. That is not open mindedness, that is biased rationalizations.

Espionage charges are not limited to times of war. Look it up here. As for war being nonexistent, God I wish that were really the case!

From my understanding of the law, gleaned from what I've read and seen keeping up with this stuff, it was meant to be used in a way completely unlike using it against Assange and Wikileaks. While I will check out your link later, I still think its frightening that you believe the chilling effects of your eagerness to blindly defend the U.S. government against responsibility of its own actions is a price you're willingly to pay to shut Assange up. Remember, the Pentagon already said that the old leaks caused no harm to national security or to our international conflict operations.

Which laws, exactly? Do you mean the Patriot Act? Congress passed that law, Democrats and Republicans alike, the same as Congress authorized the actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nobody in the government is guilt free on any of this. As for abuse, don't act like Bush is the only one that may have gone to far. I've heard no headlines about Obama ending any domestic spying. If anything it's gotten worse. Do I have to bring up the TSA nude scanners and "love pats"? Talk about abuses...

Pathetic. I objectively say don't let the precedence continue, and all you can do is whine about Obama using the precedent to his own liking. No fucking shit, I'm saying don't let Obama continue Bush's precedents because the apple basket is getting more rotten each election season.

I may sound rude, but its irritating being told to provide proof of reality to people who want to deny reality by practicing willful ignorance. This may not be who you are, but its hard not to believe it when it comes to these kinds of issues and opinions. That said, I do agree with THOMO about your participation in the discussion.

 

[Phoenix333]

@ Phoenix333

Your last post to me was IMO considerably more mature and I hold my hand out to you for it. I don't mean that in a condescending manner either. It takes a lot to keep an open mind in these modern times and I salute you for having done so, atleast in my opinion.

I am grateful for your understanding. I know this sort of thing is very polarizing. I am a creature of hot emotion, and also very cold logic. Unfortunately when my emotions run hot the logic tends to melt a bit, then after I cool off I think more clearly.

Look, it doesn't take much effort to educate yourself on this stuff. If you were actually open to educating yourself on things, then you would have actually checked into what the site is before you put your "gotta save America!"

I was looking for specifics you might be able to provide since you said other countries were affected. I'll dig into it myself then, but I was hoping for a little friendly assistance.

I'm sorry you've forgotten what people have fought and died for you to have.

That was very hurtful of you. I could say many unkind things to you in return, but I will remain respectful and say only this: I have never forgotten, nor will I ever forget those who have fallen in defense of liberty.

I still think its frightening that you believe the chilling effects of your eagerness to blindly defend the U.S. government against responsibility of its own actions is a price you're willingly to pay to shut Assange up. Remember, the Pentagon already said that the old leaks caused no harm to national security or to our international conflict operations.

I do not blindly defend the US government. I care only about the safety and security of the people of America. As for what the Pentagon said, that's damage control and spin at work. They're not exactly going to jump up and down and scream how much harm it could have done.

Pathetic. I objectively say don't let the precedence continue, and all you can do is whine about Obama using the precedent to his own liking. No fucking shit, I'm saying don't let Obama continue Bush's precedents because the apple basket is getting more rotten each election season.

I said nobody is guilt-free. I AGREE with you on this. If it were up to me the whole lot of them would be thrown out. I don't trust any politicians.

I may sound rude, but its irritating being told to provide proof of reality to people who want to deny reality by practicing willful ignorance. This may not be who you are, but its hard not to believe it when it comes to these kinds of issues and opinions. That said, I do agree with THOMO about your participation in the discussion.

I'm not asking for proof, I just wanted a few links so I could know what you know and have a starting point to do some research. It would have given me common ground for discussion and analysis. I really do not like to argue. I'm strongly opinionated and I love to rant, but I prefer to use discussion as a tool for learning, not for browbeating. I know that for the majority of people that post strong opinions on message boards this is not the case. That's why I'm taking the time to explain this. I'm not like that. I may be a bit bloodthirsty and hotheaded at times, but I'm neither heartless nor insensitive. I really do try to understand people, and if I am in error about something I seek to correct it.

 

[nobody_here]

boy you guys are good at making really long posts trying to prove your point but in the end do you really think you are going to change anyone else's minds?

 

[gaspah]

Phoenix333: yes even... ALL governments should have no secrets but the worst offenders are the USA, china and n korea. but at least the last two don't claim to be free. they're very clear about being dictatorships. no two wrongs don't make a right just because other countries keep secrets don't give the USA the right to.

oh yes i love sharia law its totally awesome! i love government oppression, disregard for human rights.. well... unless its the big bad USA! hey we should all keep our women locked up in dungeons and murder anyone with different morals or religion and hey lets go back to executing homosexuals, i mean nothin better than a good ol' fag drag. in fact i'm gonna get some i heart taliban shirts made up. your government propaganda fueled conception that all muslims love the taliban and support sharia law is depressing. when will you get the point that the government either fabricates or exaggerates these bogeymen to keep y'all in check. its a desperate cry to try to say either you love the corrupt government or you love terrorists, well i heard that only pedophiles oppose internet censorship!

the jews have become nazis... israel has to be the most racist country on the planet. i mean c'mon they split the country in two cas they didn't want any dirty arabs in jewtown. unless you're jewish you're a 2nd class citizen over there. i would never say all blanket statement that jews are racist or nazis, but zionist jews are.

you all have the internet right? why don't you stop watching fox news for a while and research it yourselves.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

 

[gaspah]

I suggest starting by watching the documentary occupation 101
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

 

[jay2472000]

No, its nothing like your also retarded new analogy. It's like hundreds of people crowding into the same gas station with no one actually buying anything, bogging it down for the paying customers. And then everyone going to the next store and crowding that store for a while, allowing the first store open back up to paying customers.

Its called protest..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loitering

 

[Gorankar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loitering

Peaceful marches and picketing is allowed, though in some cities permits are required to keep the police from hauling you away. The 60's style sit ins or door blocking is not. After a certain degree of it, you get arrested, as it should be. Get out of our way. We don't care about your revolution, we just want to buy some groceries and a six pack.

 

[Dylan80]

In regards to the long ass debate above (which I mostly just scrolled passed since its pointless now) --- but they are not hackers, rather "hacktivists" who all went to the same website at the same time, hence bogging it down.

This really requires little skill.... it just takes brains from one guy and he has to do a MASSIVE planning of all these computers at once. He obviously used the lifeless 24/7 4chan kiddy posters on that SHIT web forum...... and they all banded together with their patheticness to help him botnet all the computers he possibly could. Most of these kids don't know shit about wikileaks except they THINK ITS GOOD FOR AMERICA (quite the opposite)

THATS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT WIKILEAKS. Really. DDosing takes no "hacker" skills really. Anyone can learn how to do it in about an hour of time reading about it on google. The hard part of being a DDosing "hacktivist" though, is like I said, finding all those fucking computers to "visit" the same website at the precise same time which bogs it the hell down, obviously for a few minutes to an hour. Amazon finally got brought down today by these tools (true definition of tools)..... but not in America, only European Amazon sites.

 

[Phoenix333]

ALL governments should have no secrets

I wish it could be this way, but I am a realist. It's not going to happen.

your government propaganda fueled conception that all muslims love the taliban and support sharia law is depressing.

Don't put words in my beak. I never said all Muslims are for Sharia law. Oh, but I'm not allowed to criticize anything having to do with Islam, now am I? That automatically makes me a spoon-fed government puppet tool! How silly of me to forget! Seriously, read what I sporking write and stop stereotyping me or else STFU.

the jews have become nazis... israel has to be the most racist country on the planet. i mean c'mon they split the country in two cas they didn't want any dirty arabs in jewtown. unless you're jewish you're a 2nd class citizen over there. i would never say all blanket statement that jews are racist or nazis, but zionist jews are.

Um... no. In 1948 before every surrounding nation invaded Israel and tried to destroy it, every Arab living there was given the option to become an Israeli citizen. Arab Israeli citizens have equal rights and freedoms with the Jewish population. It seems whatever media you follow neglects to report that fact. That is not a racist policy, and what's going on in Gaza and the West bank are a result of Egypt and Jordan's actions during and following the 1948 invasion. All zionist Jews want is a f!@#ing place to live where people aren't trying to gas them or rain bombs on them and to be left alone.

you all have the internet right? why don't you stop watching fox news for a while and research it yourselves.

Then turn off MSNBC and do the same with the history of Israel.

 

[gaspah]

Phoenix333: sorry half that comment was for the post below yours but i forgot to address it. be critical as you like about islam, there's plenty to be critical about.

given citizenship? i find that highly dubious, did they also give them back their homes they were forced from? as for equality that's bullishit if you're jewish from anywhere around the world you can set up shop in israel and they'll give you free land no such luck if you're not jewish. hell if you're palestinian you can't even visit what used to be their family home. as for surrounding nations attacking israel, if china declared the united states was being separated into hong kong 2 and united states and united states had all the poor farming land would you expect canada, mexico and your allied nations to step in? israel is stolen land. they don't just want somewhere to live, they want someone else's land to set up a closed off provincial society totally excluding the culture of the inhabitants.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

 

[NahBrah]

That was very hurtful of you. I could say many unkind things to you in return, but I will remain respectful and say only this: I have never forgotten, nor will I ever forget those who have fallen in defense of liberty.

Stop rewriting reality in your head. I said you've forgotten what they died for. The bigger picture. The things they died to protect. What they felt their sacrifice was worth. The things people died for long before your kind turned towards military worship. The Rights that people have been dying for a couple of centuries for, long before those lost that you remember were ever born. Focus on what people are saying instead of trying to twist their words to get your emotional arguments out to the audience.

Um... no. In 1948 before every surrounding nation invaded Israel and tried to destroy it, every Arab living there was given the option to become an Israeli citizen. Arab Israeli citizens have equal rights and freedoms with the Jewish population. It seems whatever media you follow neglects to report that fact. That is not a racist policy, and what's going on in Gaza and the West bank are a result of Egypt and Jordan's actions during and following the 1948 invasion. All zionist Jews want is a f!@#ing place to live where people aren't trying to gas them or rain bombs on them and to be left alone.


Then turn off MSNBC and do the same with the history of Israel.

You are grossly misinformed (unsurprisingly and stereotypically) yet again on world affairs. However, this isn't a thread about Israel's government or its extreme right wing settlers or their mutually beneficial plans to enrich themselves at the Palestinian citizens' expenses, it is a thread about Wikileaks, which you still have not informed yourself about, instead continuing to formulate your opinions based on paranoid and emotional fears in the absence of factual information.

There are far more credible tech/news sites, with actual editorial and writer talent, to read and discuss articles about Wikileaks, such as ArsTechinica, if you need somewhere to start. Load the older articles if you actually want to do more than express your intentions on informing yourself.

 

[THOMO]

Amazon attacked - http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel#p/u/5/BB73E2gS2ec

 

[Phoenix333]

I said you've forgotten what they died for. The bigger picture.

You know full well what I meant, and I know how these little word games are played.

The things people died for long before your kind turned towards military worship.

"My kind"... That statement says more about you than anything else you've posted here. I know why you are behaving this way toward me, and why trying to discuss anything with you is pointless. I will waste no more time here. There is nothing we can learn from each other.

 

[Gorankar]

Amazon attacked - http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel#p/u/5/BB73E2gS2ec

meh, who cares, it's EU on EU crime.

 

[NahBrah]

You know full well what I meant, and I know how these little word games are played.


"My kind"... That statement says more about you than anything else you've posted here. I know why you are behaving this way toward me, and why trying to discuss anything with you is pointless. I will waste no more time here. There is nothing we can learn from each other.

A closed mind will find any reason it can to stay that way. You have nothing to learn because you refuse to learn. Again, you are misinformed about wikileaks and only a cursory look into the story will change your views about the whole affair.

Wikileaks has posted only cables that other major news sources have already posted themselves. They have also kept intact the redactions of names and other sensitive information that the newspapers have done.
Wikileaks directly asked the US Government for assistance with redacting sensitive information, but the government spitefully refused to accept that the documents were already out in the wild.
Wikileaks has only released about 1 % of the quarter million cables they have in their possession, they did not dump them all onto the internet like mainstream media keeps trying to suggest and outright lie about.
Wikileaks is not blackmailing or arrogantly (insert inane idea here) the US government with the encrypted file they released that contains all the cables. It is encrypted with a 256 character password that will only be revealed if the governments of the world attempt to arrest the Wikileaks staff. Corrupt governments being upset about transparency is not an actual rationalization to ignore the rule of law, despite what authority worshiping retards and nationalist schizophrenics think after they've been misinformed about things. Its called life insurance, and when you have a government that is colluding directly or indirectly with corporations to choke the life out of Wikipedia, that is called fascism and Assange would be a damn fool not to have an insurance plan in place when pathetic news persons are on national TV calling for his assassination.

Investigative journalism is all but dead in America, you should be praying for the survival of Wikileaks. Or at least support the spinoff leak website being put up by some of the other Wikileaks founders, if you are of the opinion that Wikileaks just hates America, despite the fact that it has been releasing things about countries all over the world for almost half a decade now.

Glenn Greenwald on Salon.com has been covering the whole affair pretty well, here's just one of many articles to get you started. http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/11/30/wikileaks

 

[NahBrah]

I'll just keep posting relevant links here for those who wish to be informed.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...GDKMDA?docId=120c7bf5d3a34dbaadf1280dace2e456

 

[NahBrah]

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/10/wikileaks_media/index.html

 

[satsunada]

Stop rewriting reality in your head. I said you've forgotten what they died for. The bigger picture. The things they died to protect. What they felt their sacrifice was worth. The things people died for long before your kind turned towards military worship. The Rights that people have been dying for a couple of centuries for, long before those lost that you remember were ever born. Focus on what people are saying instead of trying to twist their words to get your emotional arguments out to the audience.

Umm.. people tended to die for God or because the guy with the army/church robe said they should fight. Things haven't changed much. However, if you are insinuating that the Wikileaks people are somehow revolutionary? That's a bit of a stretch. I'm with Phoenix that the people that leaked should be tried and found guilty but of espionage, not treason. Same penalty though. We are, unfortunately, in a state of official war so that's pretty much the only real option for releasing classified info. Wikileaks does help with certain things, unfortunately the damage for total transparency can be FAR worse than the benefits of it. Corrupt order is bad, but chaos is far worse.

You are grossly misinformed (unsurprisingly and stereotypically) yet again on world affairs. However, this isn't a thread about Israel's government or its extreme right wing settlers or their mutually beneficial plans to enrich themselves at the Palestinian citizens' expenses, it is a thread about Wikileaks, which you still have not informed yourself about, instead continuing to formulate your opinions based on paranoid and emotional fears in the absence of factual information.

Actually he's pretty much spot on about Israel and Palestine. The continuing conflict is being manipulated by elements of the Palestinian population who are ex-egyptian military or ex-jordanian military. The situation is intentional and meant to be this way, but not by israelis. I suggest you research what happened after the war in 1948.

 

[NahBrah]

Umm.. people tended to die for God or because the guy with the army/church robe said they should fight. Things haven't changed much. However, if you are insinuating that the Wikileaks people are somehow revolutionary? That's a bit of a stretch.

What the hell are you talking about? Don't put nonexistent words or opinions in my mouth. The only thing I was referring to dying for were the Rights that people have died to protect, the same Rights which people like you are so readily willing to strip from people when you don't like them. Or have you forgotten that life is an inalienable Right that you don't just get to take when you dislike someone? Despite all that, the fact that you don't think that Wikileaks is a revolutionary thing, then you are a fool. Why else do you think governments are so hostile towards it? Because of the very fact that it threatens their desires and forces them to change the way they do things. This is a pretty good example of something that is revolutionary. Why you think the excessive over-classification of things as highly classified when they should never have been in the first place is a mystery to me, and saddening. The fact that the government has been abusing these classifications is the VERY REASON THAT WIKILEAKS EVEN EXISTS. Wikileaks exists for the sole reason to hold governments more accountable for their illegal or immoral actions and to prevent them from hiding everything as "classified" to avoid repercussion from their citizens. It doesn't exist to force total transparency on the world, like you seem to have made up.

I'm with Phoenix that the people that leaked should be tried and found guilty but of espionage, not treason. Same penalty though. We are, unfortunately, in a state of official war so that's pretty much the only real option for releasing classified info. Wikileaks does help with certain things, unfortunately the damage for total transparency can be FAR worse than the benefits of it. Corrupt order is bad, but chaos is far worse.

Did you just ignore all the damn facts I just posted? Under what possible reasoning other than irrational and ignorant, misguided, nationalistic blood lust would you have an Australian citizen tried and murdered for a supposed "crime" that he somehow committed without ever stepping foot in America, a crime which never actually took place and a law that was meant for information leaks to America's enemies in times of war? And, before you answer this, you better read the last few posts and inform yourself, lest you are some sort of masochist asking to be set straight on your facts.

Actually he's pretty much spot on about Israel and Palestine. The continuing conflict is being manipulated by elements of the Palestinian population who are ex-egyptian military or ex-jordanian military. The situation is intentional and meant to be this way, but not by israelis. I suggest you research what happened after the war in 1948.

Are you so daft that you cannot recognize which side is the one with superior firepower, superior political power, and superior bank accounts with the unconditional support of the nation with the most powerful military in the world, America? Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, believe the trash you just posted? What has happened after 1948 has been an ever expanding Israel who has grown its borders then, and still now, through war crimes and annexation of another people's land and subjugation of those people. That is called apartheid. Just because you've fallen for propaganda instead of actually informing yourself of the facts on very important matters in the world, it doesn't mean that your misinformation regurgitations are anything but just that. Israel has done absolutely nothing to show that they want peace, other than empty words. They continue their settlement expansions and their blockade against Palestinian citizens, which are both war crimes. They antagonize the minority extremists in Palestine, and then launch retaliations that are orders of magnitudes more destructive against the Palestinian citizens, in response. I don't know about you, but any rational person doesn't consider an overgrown bottle rocket rocket landing randomly in a field to be something that requires helicopter missiles blowing up schools, hospitals, and houses. You do realize that less than 20 people have been killed by these dumb, unguided "rockets" despite thousands of them being fired over the last decade, don't you? Are you able to comprehend what that implies? The embarrassing and utter ineffectualness of this weapon that is touted repeatedly as the justification for wanton murder of Palestinians? Israel seems to kill more Palestinian citizens than that in just about every military act they take.

However, your ignorance of the I/P conflict is not the focus here, its your's and other's ignorance of Wikileaks that is the pertinent discussion for this thread.

 

[Gorankar]

The half truth slinging has gotten hilarious.
We have both sides spitting out their version of the truth, and conveniently ignore any facts that don't fit their view. They have even managed to drag a red herring, (Israel), into the fray.

It's like The House of Representatives in here. Except that on a forum it's funny, while on capitol hill it makes me want to cry and begin a mass extermination of lawyers and politicians.

Forget about Israel, it has nothing to do with Assange, or Wikileaks. Israel is no different than North and South America, or Australia, was after the Europeans first came over, it is a partially purchased and partially conquered land being held by political and military force. It is simply a more recent conquest. give it a century, it will settle down.

 

[NahBrah]

Off topic, but....

The half truth slinging has gotten hilarious.
We have both sides spitting out their version of the truth, and conveniently ignore any facts that don't fit their view. They have even managed to drag a red herring, (Israel), into the fray.

It's like The House of Representatives in here. Except that on a forum it's funny, while on capitol hill it makes me want to cry and begin a mass extermination of lawyers and politicians.

Forget about Israel, it has nothing to do with Assange, or Wikileaks. Israel is no different than North and South America, or Australia, was after the Europeans first came over, it is a partially purchased and partially conquered land being held by political and military force. It is simply a more recent conquest. give it a century, it will settle down.

What is even more saddening is that you are so jaded that you so casually pass off the unnecessary and unjustifiable death and suffering of people around the world as an acceptable status quo, that those who live everyday in circumstances that you could never even comprehend from your computer den are undeserving of even a hint of the unknowingly glutinous and shielded life you enjoy, because you can't be inconvenienced enough to work even slightly at stopping your politicians from giving away your tax dollars to fund a war mongering country that is destabilizing the middle east with its constant antagonization of its neighboring countries in the region, which only works to throw the U.S. into more expensive and body-piling wars. Sad that not only would you not contribute in any way whatsoever, but that you would find the thought of even hearing of the situation such an inconvenience that you would rather derail the thread some more with your apathetically emo opinion of the matter, even though no one asked your opinion on it, and even though it was just a side issue to the main point of my post, the thread topic, which you completely ignored. Sad that you would actively work to bury the matter from discussion solely because of immature convenience. Much like how teenage girls tend to dismiss things they don't want to hear about because its so booooring.

But hey, at least you got to tell everyone your nhilistic view on the matter. Yup, current day hostile annexation and oppressive imperialism is acceptable just because. Oh my gosh look how indifferent I am! I must be so enlightened, amirite?

Now, back to the thread topic...

 

[Gorankar]

Off topic, but....



What is even more saddening is that you are so jaded that you so casually pass off the unnecessary and unjustifiable death and suffering of people around the world as an acceptable status quo, that those who live everyday in circumstances that you could never even comprehend from your computer den are undeserving of even a hint of the unknowingly glutinous and shielded life you enjoy, because you can't be inconvenienced enough to work even slightly at stopping your politicians from giving away your tax dollars to fund a war mongering country that is destabilizing the middle east with its constant antagonization of its neighboring countries in the region, which only works to throw the U.S. into more expensive and body-piling wars. Sad that not only would you not contribute in any way whatsoever, but that you would find the thought of even hearing of the situation such an inconvenience that you would rather derail the thread some more with your apathetically emo opinion of the matter, even though no one asked your opinion on it, and even though it was just a side issue to the main point of my post, the thread topic, which you completely ignored. Sad that you would actively work to bury the matter from discussion solely because of immature convenience. Much like how teenage girls tend to dismiss things they don't want to hear about because its so booooring.

But hey, at least you got to tell everyone your nhilistic view on the matter. Yup, current day hostile annexation and oppressive imperialism is acceptable just because. Oh my gosh look how indifferent I am! I must be so enlightened, amirite?

Now, back to the thread topic...

And you got to spew out your the "evils of the US, Israel, and Western world" speech. What's the difference aside from you being long winded about it?

You don't know me well enough to know anything about where I came from, or what I have done, or how I have lived. And aside from the fact, as I see it, that you spew your version of the truth like a junior college hippie, I know nothing about you either. Enlightened is not a word I would ever use to describe either you or I. Enlightened is one of those made up words, typically used by politicians, religious leaders, and others trying to trick you.

 

[NahBrah]

And you got to spew out your the "evils of the US, Israel, and Western world" speech. What's the difference aside from you being long winded about it?

You don't know me well enough to know anything about where I came from, or what I have done, or how I have lived. And aside from the fact, as I see it, that you spew your version of the truth like a junior college hippie, I know nothing about you either. Enlightened is not a word I would ever use to describe either you or I. Enlightened is one of those made up words, typically used by politicians, religious leaders, and others trying to trick you.

The difference between us is I don't have to use rationalizations to justify and placate the cognitive dissonance you must feel when you state your lazy opinion of the state of things around the world.

I deal in facts, despite how unpleasant they might be or how unaligned they are with my viewpoint. But, keep mischaracterizing my words if it makes you feel better to ignore reality.

I apologize for being rude, but I'm am an adamant realist with little tolerance for any amount of revisionist history.