Opera 8 beta 2 released

Discussion in 'General Software' started by Shadow2531, Feb 26, 2005.

  1. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Change log

    Download 8 beta 2

    In the change log, you'll notice document.selection support for forms. That means that you can finally select something in the compose box for these forums and embed that selection in color tags (for example).

    Also, that means inserting smilies will insert at the caret position instead of at the end of the textarea. (Finally)

    However, in these forums, the inserting smiley part doesn't insert at the caret position for Opera beta 2. It does work at the vBulletin-based techguy forums though.

    If you use Opera, I recommend you update to 8 beta 2 (clean, separate install). (For security reasons and feature reasons. Plus plugin support is better. 7.54u2 is just not as advanced when it comes to html/dom support).

    BTW, they have a handle on the IDN spoofing.

    It's a good update. (especially if you are coming from 7.54u2).
     
  2. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    If using the non-registered version, make sure you select the targeted google ads.

    On a side note, if anyone wishes to turn the main bar on and put the address box on it so the address box is visible at all times (more like other browsers), then you will find that the ad gets really big.

    If that is a problem for you and you want to keep the ad skinny in that situation, it's possible.

    Turn off the main bar.

    Put that status toolbar up top,remove everything from it, add the address box and other stuff that you want and set the status toolbar to 'extend'.

    Turn on the navigation toolbar, put it on the bottom and turn it into a status bar by adding the status box.

    You can move everything everywhere.

    Most will want tools->preferences->windows->advanced opera workspace set.

    Also, make sure you F12 and set Opera to id as Opera. Most sites work better if you ID as Opera instead of the default MSIE+Opera. If you have any specific sites where you need to ID as something Opera+IE or Opera+Mozilla, you can by creating and or editing ua.ini in Opera's profile directory. In Opera, if you click on help->check for new release, ua.ini will be created and you can see how it works.

    If anyone needs help with understanding Opera's cookie handling, just let me know.
     
  3. zyntax

    zyntax Gawd

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    thanks for the heads up.

    opera for life!
     
  4. Ocean

    Ocean [H]ardness Supreme

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    i really cant get opera's cookie handling to use everything yahoo has to offer, other than accept all cookies.

    theres login, and members and mail, and chat, www

    -yahoo.com

    and some other 3rd party cookies that are a bitch to keep track of.

    everyother site works fine though.
     
  5. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Here's a little info about the 3rd party cookie settings.

    First, the "set only for the server itself" setting (translated to make more sense) means "refuse all". That's because if a server sets a cookie for itself, it wouldn't be a 3rd party cookie.

    The actual "refuse all" setting means "accept for the the current domain only" or in other words (accept 3rd party cookies, but not across domains)

    Now the "accept all" setting for the 3rd party cookies means "accept all 3rd party cookies, but only for sites that are allowed to set normal cookies".

    That basically means that the 3rd party cookies have to abide by the rules of normal cookies.

    So moving on..

    What you need to do is set normal cookies to "treat as specified in the server manager" and set 3rd party cookies to "accept all".

    Then in tools->preferences->privacy, make sure only the following 3 checkboxes are checked:' referrer logging', 'automatic redirection' , 'enable cookies.'

    Then, here's how you add stuff to the server manager. (might want to start from scratch by deleting your cookies4.dat file and wand.dat file (if you don't mind deleting all your saved passwords and cookies). Not necessary, but better.

    Click on the manage cookies.. button.
    uncheck the cookies checkbox (so you can see only sites you enter and not servers that were dynamically added by other rules.

    click on 'new'.
    type yahoo.com
    Then check ONLY the 2nd and 3rd checkbox for the site.

    Then your yahoo will work.

    The basic rule is this.

    Check ONLY the 2nd and 3rd box if you enter a domain and check only the 3rd box if you enter a server.

    For example, if you want to allow cookies for the Opera forum, but not all of the opera site, you'd enter my.opera.com and check only the 3rd box. If you did want to allow the whole Opera domain, you'd enter opera.com and check only box 2 and 3.

    For hotmail to work you need to add

    msn.com
    passport.com
    passport.net

    For netscape webmail to work, you need to add
    aol.com
    netscape.com

    For yahoo webmail, you need

    yahoo.com

    The 3rd party setting needs to be set to "accept all" for lots of sites. For example, msn.com might need to set a cookie for passport.com. That's a cross-domain-third-party cookie and passport.com needs to set a cookie for loginnet.passport.com, which would be a 3rd party cookie. passport.com might also have to set a cookie for login.passport.net. If you set 3rd party cookies to "set only for the server itself" you'll be blocking all 3rd party cookies and hotmail won't work. If you set 3rd party cookies to "refuse all" you'd be blocking cross-domain 3rd party cookies that are needed for hotmail. You could use the "let me decide option", but that's annoying and messy. The only good option for 3rd party cookies is to set them to "accept all". Just remember that "accept all" doesn't mean accept all 3rd party cookies, it means accept all TYPES of 3rd party cookies for sites that are allowed to set normal cookies.

    Anyway, with the settings I described, no cookie can be set unless it's allowed to in the server manager. A 3rd party cookie for a site cannot be set unless that site is allowed to set a normal cookie.

    This is equal to turning of cookies in Firefox and using the exceptions list.

    Just in case you wanted to know, for these forums, just add hardforum.com and check box 2 and 3.

    Just remember, lots of 3rd party cookies are not bad. It's just ones like doubleclick.net etc., but with the method I described, doubleclick.net can't set a cookie and no other site can set a doubleclick.net cookie.

    One other thing. Say for example, you enter mozillazine.org and check box 2 and 3. When you log on to the forums, forums.mozillazine.org will by dynamically added to the server manager until you delete all your cookies. That dynamic forums.mozillazine.org entry will have only the first checkbox set for it and will be greyed out. That just means that it's following the rules for mozillazine.org. No need to mess with the dynamic entries.

    As for the other checkboxes for each site that I didn't talk about, just ignore them and leave them unchecked.

    BTW, you can edit your language file in the Opera program folder to change the labels for the 3rd party cookies so that they make more sense.

    Opera knows of the misunderstandings caused by their improperly labeled 3rd party cookie settings, but it does not look like they are going to change them.
     
  6. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    3rd Party Cookies:
    • Accept Only cookies set to the server itself
    • Refuse all
    • Let me decide every time I receive one
    • Accept all

    3rd Party Cookies ( translated ):
    • Refuse all types of 3rd party cookies
    • Accept ONLY 3rd party cookies for the current domain (if the current domain and server are allowed to set normal cookies)
    • Let me decide every time I receive one
    • Accept all types of 3rd party cookies for servers/domains that are allowed to set normal cookies

    Strict cookie settings for Opera:
    • tools->preferences->privacy
    • Check only "referrer logging", "automatic redirecton", "enable cookies"
    • Normal Cookies: Treat as specified in server manager
    • 3rd Party Cookies: Accept all

    Example of domain in server manager:
    • yahoo.com
    • use default for normal cookies: unchecked
    • apply these settings to the entire domain: checked
    • accept cookies for server/domain: checked
    • accept 3rd party cookies for server/domain: unchecked (ignore this option)
    • accept incorrect paths: unchecked (ignore this option)

    Example of dynamic server entry for yahoo.com
    • mail.yahoo.com
    • use default for normal cookies: checked and greyed out
    • apply these settings to the entire domain: unchecked and greyed out
    • accept cookies for server/domain: unchecked and greyed out
    • accept 3rd party cookies for server/domain: unchecked and greyed out (ignore this option)
    • accept incorrect paths: unchecked and greyed out(ignore this option)

    Example of server in server manager
    • my.opera.com
    • use default for normal cookies: unchecked
    • apply these settings to the entire domain: unchecked
    • accept cookies for server/domain: checked
    • accept 3rd party cookies for server/domain: unchecked (ignore this option)
    • accept incorrect paths: unchecked (ignore this option)

    3rd Party cookie:
    (When server A sets a cookie for server B and Server B and Server A are on the same domain.)

    Cross-domain 3rd party cookie:
    (When server A sets a cookie for server B and server B is on a different domain than server A.)
     
  7. Ocean

    Ocean [H]ardness Supreme

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    you know more about it than me.

    so in order to undertsnad what you said, i guess i need a few precise definitions.

    is mail.yahoo.com part of the www.yahoo.com domain?

    is mail.yahoo.com from the www.yahoo.com server?


    what is a 3rd party? i assumed something like an advertising cookie from an entirely different domain and server.
     
  8. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    A 3rd party cookie can be one of those nasty usage tracking cookies from an ad site, but not necessarily. It can be a legitimate cookie.

    When one server sets a cookie for another server, that's a 3rd party cookie. If a server sets a cookie for itself, thats a first party cookie, aka normal cookie.

    As far as Opera is concerned, mail.yahoo.com and www.yahoo.com are servers on the yahoo.com domain.

    So if you want to accept cookies for all of yahoo, you need to allow yahoo.com and not www.yahoo.com.

    In Opera, instead of accepting all of yahoo, you can research to find all the required servers that you need to enter in the server manager for your logging-in needs. Since they are servers, you'd only check box 3 for each of them. However, it can be a pain finding the name of all the required servers, so it's just easier to accept cookies for the whole domain.

    Forgetting about Opera for a second, mail.yahoo.com can be a subdomain made up of lots of servers and www.yahoo.com could be the same way. A server/domain doesn't necessarily have to be a pysical one, it could be a virtual one, but I'm not the one to ask on how yahoo is set up.

    Really, as far as Opera is concerned, there's only one type of cookie. It's just how that cookie gets set determines whether they call it a 3rd party or not.

    Most Opera users automatically set 3rd party cookies to "refuse all" becuase they think all 3rd party cookies are ad related and they think "refuse all" will stop all those cookies.

    As already said, the "refuse all" opton doesn't refuse all. It just refuses cross domain cookies. The "set only for the server itself" option is the one that refuses all 3rd party cookies, but not all 3rd party cookies are bad so no need to block them all and no need to worry as no site can set a cookie for itself or any other site unless you personally allow it to by entries in the server manager.

    Think of the server manager as your whitelist. Everything else is blocked except what's in the whitelist.
     
  9. digitalman

    digitalman 2[H]4U

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    Everytime I go to clear the transfers Opera crashes on me. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    What do you mean by "clear transfers"?

    Do you mean "removed all finished" ?

    or "clear tranfer history" from the 'delete private data" dialog?

    or are you selecting all the transfers, right-clicking and then selected "remove transfer" to remove all the transfers?

    Is the crash happening in both the transfers panel and transfer window (ctrl+alt+t)?
     
  11. Nazo

    Nazo 2[H]4U

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    By the way. Opera 8b2 now will try to automatically download a ua.ini file when you choose check new version. This file will provide a sitelist as well as which identification string Opera should use in the simple syntax "www.site.com=1" (with the 1 being Opera, a 2 being Mozilla, and 3 being IE.) I asked about it in the Opera forums and was recommended that I view this journal entry: http://my.opera.com/larskl/journal/37 The journal entry also talks a bit about how it handles the spoofing prevention. Purportedly people should use the "Help/Report a site problem" option to report sites that won't work without changing the identifier string. Whether enough people will do this or the Opera team will put enough effort into sorting the reports is beyond me.

    IMO, this sounds like something that will REALLY come in handy later with those pesky sites that insist on using ultra-proprietary code targeting specific browsers to an extent that they just refuse to work with Opera on the grounds that it isn't IE or Firefox. (WebCT anyone?)

    So far I've had less weirdness with gmail in beta 2. I had this weird thing where sometimes a conversation window would show up really small. That's not to say it can't happen again, just that it hasn't yet. (Tip for those who don't know. Don't go to gmail.com as it requires you to log in anew each time. Go to gmail.google.com and it remembers your login for the usual 2 weeks.)

    EDIT: One thing I have noticed with 8b2. It keeps having troubles completely closing down. I often run it a short period after having closed it and it tells me another user is running it.
     
  12. digitalman

    digitalman 2[H]4U

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    Download something -> panel or window right click -> removed all finished -> Opera crashes completely -> get MS Send Error Report -> Restart Opera -> Open up transfers -> right click -> removed all finished -> it used to work. :mad: :confused:
     
  13. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I can't confirm. Works fine here. (not saying you're crazy, just saying I can't make it crash.)

    Did you do the default install to a new folder or did you install on top of a previous install?

    It could possibly be the way you have the UI customized that makes the bug show its face.
     
  14. digitalman

    digitalman 2[H]4U

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    I'll try uninstalling it, clean out the remnaints,wipe the freespace and then reinstalling it.

    BTW Do 7 skins work with 8? No I haven't tried to install any.
     
  15. Nazo

    Nazo 2[H]4U

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    Yes, version 7 skins work in version 8. (Says so right on the official skin site.)
     
  16. digitalman

    digitalman 2[H]4U

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    Thanks Nazo for the info. After I reinstalled Opera it partially didn't want to work right but after 3 or 4 crashes it cleared itself up. :eek::wtf:
     
  17. Nazo

    Nazo 2[H]4U

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    I started up Opera and went to Gmail this morning, and it's changed... A lot of the nice things, such as the options to select all e-mails at once are gone and they added a banner at the top telling you that you should use a supported browser for a "better gmail experience." These options still show up in firefox/etc. Well, just so people trying Opera for the first time will know, this is not Opera's fault. I don't know why they did this, but, this is gmail's fault. Only something like 10 hours ago it was working 100%.
     
  18. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    ^^ Wow, that sounds evil. I'll have to check it out.
     
  19. Nazo

    Nazo 2[H]4U

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    Ok, I read up a little more and have found what the problem (or perhaps not problem at all) is. Apparently they now have a basic version that should work in all real browsers now using basic HTML (eg by not breaking standards.) Unfortunately, that means it looses some of those nice things (though I can't see why a few of them are completely unavailable...) Guess they don't care that Opera 8 users weren't having any REAL troubles anymore.

    The upside of this is that it now should work on IE4+, Opera 6.03+, and even *shivers* Netscape 4.07+. Well, I don't mind not having to use Firefox to check gmail on my laptop at least. Firefox always ate every bit of the tiny amount of memory it had in such a hurry that it started swapping in no time flat. I have to use Opera 6.06 though because newer ones aren't very low memory friendly either (though still better than Firefox...) Well, realistically you shouldn't be using IE (any) or Netscape (any since they became so bloated) but, at least this means users of the official Opera 7 should be pretty well set.
     
  20. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeh, I'm not too happy about the

    part.
     
  21. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Luckily, I use Proxomitron and Andrew Gregory's filters to spoof as Firefox 1.0.

    (The filter even rewrites the navigator object and removes window.opera so Opera doesn't get detected by it)

    Then, I'm able to switch to the standard gmail view and everything is like before.
     
  22. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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  23. digitalman

    digitalman 2[H]4U

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    Thanks for the heads up Shadow.
     
  24. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I fixed a typo in my post.

    Just to be clear, you should NOT rely on the mail client in 8 preview 5.

    It does need to be tested though so bugs can be found.

    If things can be fixed in time, the new imap backend might make it in 8 final.
     
  25. Nazo

    Nazo 2[H]4U

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    Uhm, I tried that just now. If I set it to Firefox, it just says it's an unsupported browser and gives me the basic HTML view. If I set it to IE6, it comes closer, telling me I'm in basic HTML and to click on the link to get the standard view, but, clicking the link only reloads the basic HTML view...

    I looked at the log and it definitely has no sign of Opera in the headers at least. Can't tell if some script is grabbing the name or something. Maybe later when I get back I'll turn that off a second, run firefox through it to get the log, then copy and paste it's agent string into the filter, effectively upgrading the filter from Firefox 1.0 to 1.0.1. Don't have much hopes for that, but, no harm in trying I guess.
     
  26. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Did you use the Firefox 1.0 web filter (for javascript) AND Firefox 1.0 outgoing header filter (for serverside detection)?
     
  27. Nazo

    Nazo 2[H]4U

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    Yes, both filters are enabled.
     
  28. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    FYI:

    In Opera, you can have site-specific css for sites that have a css signature. You can use that site-specific css for ad-blocking and fixing pages.

    However, there's a way to also target sites that don't have a css signature by using javascript embedded in your user stylesheets or browser.css.

    http://my.opera.com/quiris/journal/54

    If you have the registered version of Opera, you can also make use of filter.ini, which allows you to block sites etc.

    With all that, you have lots of power. Throw in proxomitron and you get even more.
     
  29. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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  30. Nazo

    Nazo 2[H]4U

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    Ok, now this is weird. That doesn't seem to be working either... The secure one gives me a blank page and the unsecure one -- when I load it after the secure one per your suggestion -- gives me the text "Loading..." and nothing ever happens. I tried it several times and I've waited a LONG time on the "Loading..." page. Seems to me though that even if it did work after, say an hour or something, it kind of defeats the purpose if you have to count on gmail loading after an hour. May as well use a browser you hate instead.

    Seems gmail just does not like my browser for some reason... For one thing, are you using the original 8 beta? I'm using 8 beta 2. I just can't seem to trick it. *sigh* What idiot over there decided that Opera 8 should be treated the same as Opera 6.04 anyway...

    EDIT: P.S. It was 100% working before google decided to switch Opera to the basic HTML version. Before that, I was using 8 beta 2 through all of gmail without any real troubles. Occasional small conversation windows, but, nothing major at all. They were actually readable now, unlike when I first saw that bug. Now more like 75% width while the first occrance was around 25%.
     
  31. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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  32. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Try it this way.

    Log in to gmail normally and get the crappy view.

    In another tab, view this page

    Then, middle-click on this to open it in a new page.

    That should take you to the old, good view.
     
  33. digitalman

    digitalman 2[H]4U

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    I did not have any problems with the Gmail links that Shadow provided using Opera 8 Preview 5
     
  34. Nazo

    Nazo 2[H]4U

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    Well, that still doesn't work for me. Oh well, I'll just give up. I'm kind of liking some things about the plain HTML view, such as the fact that they DIDN'T break simple things like hitting the back button (always hated that about gmail.) I will admit it is insanely lame that they refuse to let you change the settings without switching browsers though.
     
  35. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Opera 8 beta 3 for Win32 has been released.

    There's a new preferences layout that looks similar to the horizontal preferences that will be in Firefox 1.1. (It's not completely finished yet though)

    Native SVG support. demo

    changelog and download
     
  36. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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  37. Nazo

    Nazo 2[H]4U

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    Ok, gmail HATES me. I've updated to beta 3, added gmail.google.com=4 as well as www.google.com=4 to my UA.INI file, closed Opera, waited a bit, restarted it, and ended up with the basic HTML view claiming that I'm using an unsupported browser. If I hit F12 and set it to ID as Firefox the site works. This completely defeats the purpose of UA.INI... Apparently it's ignoring the ua.ini file in my system. I even tried copying the ua.ini to the profile folder. What am I missing?

    EDIT: I even deleted my cookies to be 100% certain. And I don't mean manually removing them one by one. I deleted the entire data file...

    Oh yeah, and the nocheckbrowser thing works, but, it's a royal pain. I HATE using bookmarks. It's just so much work digging through them all. I only use them when I forget the address for a site. I always manually type in the addresses manually for things such as gmail which is 500x easier and faster for me. Thing is, it's kind of hard to remember the nocheckbroswer thing (at least, for me -- I keep forgetting the gmail part first.)
     
  38. Tangent

    Tangent [H]ard|Gawd

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    What's the build number on that? I just downloaded a new version today but it's kind of hard to tell from the description of the changes if this is the one I got... I'm running build 7483...

    *EDIT - Duh, never mind, I just looked further down the same damned page that told me the build number and saw Opera 8 beta 2. :rolleyes:
     
  39. Shadow2531

    Shadow2531 [H]ard|Gawd

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    @Nazo

    I guess gmail does hate you.

    gmail.google.com=4 in ua.ini does the trick for me.

    I am identifying as Opera, but that shouldn't matter as it's suppose to totally identify as Firefox.

    Of course using proxomitron to id as Firefox didn't work for your either.

    I don't know why it's not working for you.

    You could try the user javascript option to delete window.opera.

    Code:
    if (window.opera) {
        delete window.opera;
    }
    
    Of course Andrew Gregory's Firefox filter for proxomitron does the same thing and that didn't work for you.
     
  40. Tangent

    Tangent [H]ard|Gawd

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    Opera8 b3 is giving me trouble on gmail as well. It appears to load up normally, but the screen stays blank. Once I hit F12 and change the Identify As, just click on the one that it's currently using, or even just click on another browsing tab and then back on the gmail tab the screen pops up... :confused: