OLED Unlikely To Replace LED

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, May 28, 2016.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Is he right? I hope not because there is only so much backlight bleed and relatively poor black levels that I can take.

    While OLED panels are seeing increasing use in smartphones and have been adopted for TVs, the technology is unlikely to replace TFT-LCD panels and therefore makers of light guide plates for LCD panels will not see major impacts, said chairman Lee Man-hsiang of light guide plate maker Global Lighting Technologies (GLT) at a May 26 investors conference. Production cost for OLED panels is relatively high due to low yield rates, Lee said, adding OLED TVs will take up less than 10% of global demand for TVs. In addition to light guide plates used in IT and TV panels, GLT has developed light guide plates for use in smart wearable devices' displays, automotive displays and lighting products, Lee indicated.
     
  2. Despotes

    Despotes Gawd

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    Sadly, the uninformed will continue buying LCD's and causing other annoyances as they typically do. Getting the word out on OLED and demonstrating it's advantages is the only way people will bypass TFT- LCD crap and fuel the demand for OLED.
     
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  3. {NG}Fidel

    {NG}Fidel [H]ardness Supreme

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    If OLED was such a game changer than it wouldn't be a tough sell. As it stands now I think its the better tech for sure but most people are not wowed by the comparison unless they see it in person. Even then its not that incredible until you see it side by side with another shitty panel.
     
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  4. Tiburon1186

    Tiburon1186 Gawd

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    I love my LG OLED TV. Its bloody gorgeous. And they worked out the burn in issues they had previously so it works great with games. I hope they move everything to oled
     
  5. CreatedTheMultiverse

    CreatedTheMultiverse Limp Gawd

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    Even refrigerators?
     
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  6. Galvin

    Galvin 2[H]4U

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    I cant even find an oled tv under 32 inches. Seems they're all 50+ inches
     
  7. TroubleMagnet

    TroubleMagnet Gawd

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    They act like the yield for OLED will never improve, it will. The real question is how long it will take. Get the prices close to the same and I bet most people will choose OLED over LCD-LED panels.
     
  8. commissioneranthony

    commissioneranthony [H]ard|Gawd

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    Keep in mind, OLED will not last as long as LCD counterparts. All OLED displays will wear down over time. No, I am not talking about bad signaling or circuitry, but rather the organic compound used to make the display physically degrades over time, and it degrades by a function of use and age. If you look at the Sony PXW-FS5, Sony even notes in the literature provided that the Electronic Viewfinder (EVF) is not natively left on when the camera is in operation, not only because the camera is not capable of outputting multiple 1080p streams, but also to conserve the life of the OLED displays. All OLED displays have this same problem.
     
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  9. SparkedFire

    SparkedFire [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'd opt for LCD/LED over OLED due to OLED lifespan.
     
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  10. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    Plasma was much better than LCD and often cheaper in the end and it still failed because manufacturers wanted to keep their LCD business intact so marketing was non existant. Also, people just don't care about picture quality. I can see an LCD a mile away, no side-by-side comparison is needed to see how absolutely shitty it is, no matter the TV cost. The amount of times I've entered people's homes and saw their TV set on dynamic-ultra-neon-mega-processing-eye bleeding settings...They just don't care.
     
  11. pgwalsh

    pgwalsh Gawd

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    Well I know over at AVSForum most people are excited about OLED, but the prices are still too high.

    I was really hoping LG would have pushed out a curved 32" 4K OLED monitor this year, I guess I'll be waiting a long ass time.
     
  12. mullet

    mullet [H]ard|Gawd

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    how long?
     
  13. commissioneranthony

    commissioneranthony [H]ard|Gawd

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    I dont quite know. Companies don't like stating exactly how long until failure (unless your a HDD company), but I am sure if you do a quick scholar search for OLED research papers, I'm sure the answer wont be too hard to find

    And Wikipedia wins again:
    OLED - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Lifespan
    The biggest technical problem for OLEDs was the limited lifetime of the organic materials. One 2008 technical report on an OLED TV panel found that "After 1,000 hours the blue luminance degraded by 12%, the red by 7% and the green by 8%." In particular, blue OLEDs historically have had a lifetime of around 14,000 hours to half original brightness (five years at 8 hours a day) when used for flat-panel displays. This is lower than the typical lifetime of LCD, LED or PDP technology. Each currently is rated for about 25,000–40,000 hours to half brightness, depending on manufacturer and model.
     
  14. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference, even if they saw the TV's side by side.
    They are more likely to buy the TV that's cheaper or looks brighter, even if the color quality is garbage.

    Even for the people who could tell the difference, many will go with the cheaper "it's good enough" TV.

    Unless OLED TV's prices drop to the same price range as LED's, they will remain a niche market.
     
  15. csgill75

    csgill75 [H]Lite

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    Remember where a majority of people here purchase their TV's, They go to stores like Walmart and similar places and usually purchase the largest TV at the lowest price. People don't care about picture quality and most don't even know 4k is even a thing. As long as it says 1080p somewhere on it and it's at least 55" and is $399.99, people will buy them.
     
  16. XenIneX

    XenIneX Gawd

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    Until I can walk into the local Verizon store and not find random crap burned into every OLED display device more than a month old, I call bullshit.
     
  17. 86 5.0L

    86 5.0L [H]ardness Supreme

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    Isn't HDR LED twice as bright as OLED? It's a trade off, one isn't necessarily better then the other...
     
  18. Betaboy1983

    Betaboy1983 [H]ard|Gawd

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    It may take me a few more minutes to actually swallow this food...

    Thanks for the unexpected laugh! :LOL:
     
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  19. bucket

    bucket [H]ard|Gawd

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    Super AMOLEDs for phones all day long, please.
     
  20. DrLobotomy

    DrLobotomy [H]ardness Supreme

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    OLED owners have money to burn-in.
     
  21. Skylinestar

    Skylinestar Limp Gawd

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    That's an extremely sad news. I'm still on my old Dell 2209WA. I've been saving for the OLED but it seems it will never come true. The black level is worth it. Sigh.
     
  22. Quix

    Quix 2[H]4U

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    The idea that yield rates will never increase isn't reasonable. It is fully possible, but LCDs used to have similar problems and now the yeilds are getting so good that they can mass produce screens larger than anyone practically needs for home use for peanuts.

    Now, it's fully possible that OLEDs will always be more expensive that LCDs, sure why not. It's also possible that newer LCDs will be better than OLEDs in nearly every way. We can't possibly see the future, but the idea that something is an issue right now means the tech is useless for the future is pretty stupid. I'm not big on buying OLEDs on anything I plan on keeping for more than 5 years because the elements wear a lot quicker. I still have a LCD TV I bought 10 years ago and it works just fine, I'm not sure I would be able to say the same thing about an OLED. Although LED-backlit screens seem to be taking over the entire LCD industry, so it might not matter anyway.
     
  23. Azrak

    Azrak Gawd

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    Meh, OLED life isn't a big problem. The power supply capacitors will die long before the OLED display ever will. Right, Samsung?
     
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  24. commissioneranthony

    commissioneranthony [H]ard|Gawd

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    Maybe so, but all the monitor manufacturers have done this. They all play the passive component lottery. I have taken apart dozens of dells, samsungs, LG's, Acers, etc. and they all have penny pinching departments that source the cheapest 80c caps.
     
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  25. Zion Halcyon

    Zion Halcyon 2[H]4U

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    OLED might be nicer, but from what I hear, the main issue is that it suffers screen burn like old CRT and plasma.

    As such, I think people will still gravitate towards LCD.
     
  26. Semantics

    Semantics 2[H]4U

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    OLED i'd never buy for a TV until they fix their slow death of colors over time in OLEDs I keep my TV for 10 years usually and when I replace my main TV the old one goes into the bedroom. My current Vizio P series does quite well for itself in color accuracy and blacks and showcasing Oled tvs in store don't seem to produce anything more atm except worries about it's ability to hold colors in 5 years.
     
  27. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    To add to this.

    My Vive VR headset came with instructions not to allow daylight to shine on the OLEDs even when off as it will reduce lifespan.
    If this isnt just a problem with heat (IR) or high f. blue light (UV), it indicates that the light from each OLED and adjacent OLEDs will wear each other out as they are used.
    Possibly all 3 issues.

    OLED phones have filters over the display.
    Do OLED TVs have a darker looking filter or a coloured filter?
     
  28. mullet

    mullet [H]ard|Gawd

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    I want the 70", I am willing to wait a little for the price to get right. My wife that doesn't know anything about TV's looked at me at bestbuy and said wow look at that screen, yup it was the 65" OLED. To me LCD vs OLED is night and day difference. The best black I have ever seen not to mention no damn blur that drives me nuts.
     
  29. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    Said this on this forum years ago. Got shouted down by the then OLED die hard supporters. Sure it looks better, but it doesn't look night and day better if "Both" displays are properly setup and have the same source. That and frankly you can only tell if they are sitting side by side. Sure if you compare apples to oranges and set an OLED panel by a crappy LCD not setup properly it is going to look monumentally better.
     
  30. KG-Prime90

    KG-Prime90 Limp Gawd

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    I don't have high hopes for it. I figure as with lcds there would be some intolerable issues they never fix. If there is no blur and they last only 5 years and the input lag is good, so long as they aren't 4-5k dollars i would buy them. I'd pay 2.5k for a good sub 32" panel that lasts 5 years. That's about 42 bucks a month. Not ideal but worth it if they delivered the performance. It's that important to me anyway.

    But if they put more effort into optimizing lcds until they get panels have a faster pixel speed and better blacks, and continue to make strobing tech better they could be tolerable. Hell if they just put atw polarizers on any decent mid range panel today it would be like a miracle gift from the gods or something since apparently it's so elusive. It's still not even perfect but can we at least have a pitiful crumb oh mighty tft makers? Too much to ask to at least somewhat improve the damn image quality of these pieces of crap with technology that actually exists?
     
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  31. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardness Supreme

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    At least you can actually buy them. Whatever happened to SED TVs?
     
  32. DrLobotomy

    DrLobotomy [H]ardness Supreme

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    Died in 2010.
     
  33. commissioneranthony

    commissioneranthony [H]ard|Gawd

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    Wow. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I totally forgot the Rift and Vive both have OLED displays too.
     
  34. rat

    rat [H]ardness Supreme

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    The very nature of OLED means it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to not have burn in. There are ways to mitigate it by shifting the picture around every now and then so you don't easily see edge lines when something is letter or pillarboxed... but as each sub pixel is a distinct light source and Red, Green and Blue have different lifespans... even if you only showed a white screen... it will not fade evenly. Blue will be the first to go and the entire screen would tint towards yellow.

    You are never, ever going to be able to evenly wear out the subpixels in an OLED panel. There will ALWAYS be burn in.
     
  35. Mtnduey

    Mtnduey [H]ard|DCer of the Month - Nov. 2013/Nov. 2014

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    I have zero regrets going with OLED, other than the fact that every other TV I look at now looks like complete crap in comparison.
     
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  36. MaZa

    MaZa 2[H]4U

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    LG oled uses only white Oleds, with filters to change the color. There is no difference in pixel lifespan and burn in is also greatly reduced. LG oled is the first oled tv that is actually viable for tv and even monitor use. Too bad they have patented it and sit on it, only using it on their expensive 55"+ high end TV's.
     
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  37. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Yes, UV is particularly damaging, which will require idiot proof coatings in TVs, which of course will be left in sunny lounges. Blue OLEDs are around 430nm which is incredibly deep, borderline approaching UV in my books. Most laser/led sources are 445nm+. Some are UV in 400-405nm but not really a viable colour for 'blue'. They'll need filter(s) to block 420nm down...

    The other big issue is the quantum efficiency of the blue OLED sources. It's many times lower than green/red, so the blue is being driven harder to have 'equivalent apparent brightness'. To give you an idea, with sources of same power output in a laser, blue/red is typically 4-5x less visible than 532nm emerald green sources. So they are literally 'overclocking' the poor yielding blues, as we can't get any more juice out of them currently.

    Maybe they need to get Nichia involved.. they invented the blue laser and currently lead that market.

    If Dell can offer me a 5 year warranty on their 4k OLED panel, I'm down for it.
     
  38. talon95

    talon95 [H]Lite

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    OLED may just be too late too. FALD LCD's are quite good now and will satisfy most people for black level.
     
  39. pothb

    pothb [H]ardness Supreme

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    At 25,000 hours, that's 3 years straight. That's long enough for most people... because not a lot of people have it on every second of the day. Hell, even if you keep it on as the background, you'll still have it off for 6 hours most of the days due to you going to bed. And aren't these hours measured by the tv having maxed out brightness/contrast? I would think that having it at lower brightness/contrast would increase it even more. Please confirm or deny, I'm not too sure on this.

    I never heard of the UV issue though, that sounds like it could be a big problem. As for burn in, if they do the same as plasma and have it shifted, it should be fine.
     
  40. steakman1971

    steakman1971 2[H]4U

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    I had a Panasonic Plasma - it had a good picture and nice black. Problem - the damn thing failed about 3 months out of the warranty. I replaced it with an LED. That was about 4 years ago - to this day, I still note that the LED I have is not as good as the Plasma. Even the wife commented on this - she rarely says much tech related.